Will you buy a Leatherman Wave Alpha?

[chip]

I’ve carried a wave for the best part of 20 years the 2nd gen everyday for 12 or so years at work and a plus after that when circumstances permitted due to not being in a job that allowed.

The alpha doesn’t do a lot for me as I would take a serrated blade over large scissors, and a thumb hole over a thumb stud both every day of the week.

I don’t see the alpha as a wave but a replacement for the charge based purely on price point. And the charge more of a wave than the alpha.

If they bring out a new iteration of the wave plus I would rather it is exactly the same but replace the main blade for the 154 cm blade from the retired charge plus as I’m sure they could do this at very little change to the RRP.

Because if they go the other way and replace it with a tool in the form of the alpha but using 420hc even at a similar price point to the current wave I definitely won’t be buying.

[Richard Zheng]

I hate the thumb studs over a thumb hole. The stud just robs you of usable blade length and makes sharpening more tedious than necessary

Also I guess leatherman just have to shove Magnacut into everything so they can charge insane prices for them

[Vadim]

Another failed product from Leatherman, still can't make tool better than Swisstool Spirit.

[fullbreakfast]

Another failed product from Leatherman, still can't make tool better than Swisstool Spirit.

To be fair, neither can Victorinox. Or maybe they just feel you don’t need to improve on perfection!

[Vadim]

To be fair, neither can Victorinox. Or maybe they just feel you don’t need to improve on perfection!

You are right, there is nothing to improve, they did it right the first time.

The basic design and all the internal tools were done right.

[chip]

The spirit is great for a limited use edc tool but I would not have took it to work where the blade woild get worked hard everyday due to the softer steel.

There is a guy who tests blades by cutting rope, not the most scientific test but he is consistent with his results.
With victorinox steel he got 40 cuts before it would not cut paper.
Leatherman 420hc 60
Leatherman 154cm 150
Leatherman 530v 180

My first wave which was a second gen by the time I replaced it I had whittled down the blade from lots of sharpening through being used every day at work.
And I did not sharpen it every time it was no longer hair popping either.

If it had been a spirit I probably would have had to replace it a lot sooner. And I would not have the ability to replace tte blade myself had I chosen to.

It’s true victorinox engineering is far better than Leatherman but if they wanted for me to consider them for hard work they would need to improve on their blade steel.

[Vadim]

No issues with my daily use Spirit. 

Works like a champ! 

[chip]

If it works for you it’s all good. But for my work at the time working for a general building company my wave could often be used for anything from cutting straps to slicing open jumbo bags of sand and ballast.

And as someone who does not believe in sharpening a knife that does not need sharpening I would wait until it started to struggle to get the job done before I did.
Not when it could no longer push cut through a sheet of phone book paper so I did not unnecessary over sharpen.

And as someone who owns several Swiss tools and spirits, the only way I could see them be improved would be through offering a more hard wearing steel.
 

[Top-Gear-24]

 

[Huntsman]

@Chip

Thanks for the post - And that is an interesting and revealing test that that guy has done.

I had never really thought deeply about that distinction between an occasional multitool user and a heavy everyday multitool user, although I sometimes have worried about seriously damaging my multitool through hard use - And how that might 'ruin' the tool (or at least one implement on the MT)
- That is why the LM replaceable cutters are a great idea.

And being more of an occasional user - And not really knowing much about steel - I have often wondered about this obsession with steel grade!!

But that distinction does really point you one way or the other in terms of a MT choice.
So for me, all these lovely steels do not make much difference - But for others, like Chip, significant difference! 

[chip]

I am no expert in steels but everything is a trade off between wear resistance, toughness and rust resistance. And you could have a steel which excelled at one at the cost of the other two or do reasonabley well at two but badly at tte other.

That’s why very wear resistant steels that hold an edge extremely  well are  prone to chipppng due to having poor toughness or other steels that have great edge retention and are relatively tough are prone to rust.

So that is why 420hc has been a good steel for so long as it performs ok at all of the above, does not excel at any, but does well enough.

Magnacut is the latest super steel because it holds an edge as well as s30v (which was still considered a super steel when I first started collecting) has excellent rust resistance, excellent enough for Spyderco to use on their SALT range, but still remarkably tough.

There are many steels with greater edge retention than magnacut but all  at the cost of toughness and/or rust resistance.
Victorinox steel is a proprietary steel they have been using for many years where the emphasis seems to have been firmly on rust resistance. And given that they are probably the most prolific pocket knife manufacturer in the world it’s a recipe that has served them very well.

[Vadim]

working for a general building company my wave could often be used for anything from cutting straps to slicing open jumbo bags of sand and ballast.

A utility knife is your best option, the right tool for the right job.

And Swisstool Spirit has excellent steel, holds the edge and sharpens very quickly. 

[chip]

I would carry a Stanley knife when I knew I would be using it like if plaster boarding, but my wave was on me all day everyday so was primarily my work knife, a set of pliers a close second and occasionally a screw driver as I was never very far from a cordless drill.

It proved to be a very tough capable tool. I sent it in to Whitby not because of the greatly reduced blade but due to having worn the diamonds off the file knowing full well they would replace it rather than fix it. Which is a decision I have regretted ever since. As in hindsight I would rather have bough a new one and swapped in the file myself.  I did not realise how much I would miss it till it was gone.

[Richard Zheng]

The steel victorinox uses is definitely soft, I usually sharpen to a 15 degree edge on the knife to give it better edge retention.

I think victorinox could benefit from using a more modern steel, with more edge retention

Materials cost is really low compared to the cost of machinery and staff, so its probably not the biggest hit

[Vadim]

It's not soft, but very well balanced, holding its sharpness long enough to be very easy to sharpen.

[chip]

Edge retention and ease of sharpening are different sides of the same coin that is wear resistance.

Like I said victorinox steel is only worse or better than any other steel based on your needs. and their steel being very firmly designed around rust resistance is what has made them great as it is perfect for what thier knives are designed for.

As far as companies using the best steel for the purpose of their knives. Take Esee for instance they have always been firmly 100% behind using 1095 for their knives because for them the most important quality in a steel they required was toughness. Didn’t care it was not rust resistant nor had poor edge retention compared to some modern steels . What they valued most was that you could beat the snot out of it, because  a broken knife is a problem when in a survival situation. And the flip side of poor edge retention is ease of sharpening and being able to sharpen your knife on a rock could be seen as a plus in a survival knife.
And it’s only recently they have been brought kicking and screaming into using modern supersteels  against  their better judgement by customer demand.

Im not saying victorinox steel is any worse or better than any other steel, Infact it’s perfect for its intended purpose. as sales have proven. It just does not suit my needs for work.

If I could legally carry a spirit outside of work here in the uk. 100% I would have no complaints as it would be perfectly suited for the job.

[Richard Zheng]

I think some more modern steels would still have the traits victorinox wants, but also being generally improved.

14c28n would still offer fantastic corrosion resistance, but having far better edge retention and toughness.

Its a very popular steel in knives, for good reason

[Vadim]

Take Esee for instance they have always been firmly 100% behind using 1095 for their knives because for them the most important quality in a steel they required was toughness. Didn’t care it was not rust resistant nor had poor edge retention compared to some modern steels . What they valued most was that you could beat the snot out of it, because  a broken knife is a problem when in a survival situation. And the flip side of poor edge retention is ease of sharpening and being able to sharpen your knife on a rock could be seen as a plus in a survival knife.

Yepp, one of the reasons I like ESEE and Victorinox, like I said: great balance, easy sharpening and good edge retention.

[greenbear]

Another failed product from Leatherman, still can't make tool better than Swisstool Spirit.

I am glad you mentioned the SwissTool, I think it is rather underrated and is a superb tool. I have a Charge TTi and a SwissTool and reach for the SwissTool every time - it's not let me down yet and mine is one of the earlier models so I have had it for some time.

[Vadim]

I am glad you mentioned the SwissTool, I think it is rather underrated and is a superb tool. I have a Charge TTi and a SwissTool and reach for the SwissTool every time - it's not let me down yet and mine is one of the earlier models so I have had it for some time.

Some of the tools on my SwissTool are really hard to open, they literally break your nails, I hate it, the design is ok, but I like the design of the SwissTool Spirit better, much easier access to all the tools inside, and the shape of the handles is just right.

I wish they make the SwissTool Spirit the size of SwissTool, and without the ridiculously overpriced steel like Leatherman, just regular steel with good edge retention and easy sharpening.

[chip]

Which ridiculously overpriced steel do they make swisstools from?

[Vadim]

Which ridiculously overpriced steel do they make swisstools from?

Edited, I meant Leatherman.

[Rich_SD]

Some of the tools on my SwissTool are really hard to open, they literally break your nails, I hate it,

I totally agree!  Many of the tools on my Swisstools, and even a few SAKS, are total nail breakers.  Sometimes I wonder if Europeans have steel fingernails, especially considering that many SAK nail files are more like metal files