Will you buy a Leatherman Wave Alpha?

[David Bowen]

I can take a bigger pic when it's daylight.

[genevabuck]

I can take a bigger pic when it's daylight.

Great video and pics. How do they compare in thickness?

[David Bowen]

The Alpha is thicker than the Wave+, I'll take a photo later today for you.

[Rich_SD]

Great video and pics. How do they compare in thickness?

Just in case I am not the last one to find out - David has a Youtube channel with a good comparison.  I just found out about it yesterday 

[tosh]

I think leatherman are a joke these days
The stuff they had 20odd years ago was refreshing
Now, like Victorinox , they just tart up  existing stock and bump the price considerably

Joke outfit

Oh’ and their plier heads are Smurf  in my view. But hey they look tactical walking round the Mall. That’s what really matters clearly.

[Rich_SD]

I think leatherman are a joke these days
The stuff they had 20odd years ago was refreshing
Now, like Victorinox , they just tart up  existing stock and bump the price considerably

Joke outfit

Oh’ and their plier heads are Smurf  in my view. But hey they look tactical walking round the Mall. That’s what really matters clearly.

Definitely no offense meant, but I just want to ask you since you have such a negative opinion of Leatherman.  What do you want or expect from them?  The ARC is a generation ahead of what any other multitool manufacturer is making.  It was released a little less than 2 years ago, but they're clearly innovating.  They just expanded into the knife  market with what are very nice, albeit expensive, knives, so they're trying new things.  I don't know if Garage is still a thing, but they were releasing some interesting tools/knives with that too.  I don't personally care about new colors, but a lot of folks like those.  I definitely don't like the higher prices, but everything is getting stupid-expensive nowadays.  I'm not trying to convince anyone - I'm just asking because I am curious about your point of view 

[David Bowen]

I feel the same way @Rich_SD
I have a written review in the works for those who prefer that over video content. Any questions be people have I'm happy to answer them.

[Rich_SD]

I feel the same way @Rich_SD
I have a written review in the works for those who prefer that over video content. Any questions be people have I'm happy to answer them.

Same as me or tosh?  If tosh, the question is for you (or anyone else with the same opinion) too.  Maybe I should start a different thread. 

[powernoodle]

negative opinion

So much of negative opinion in life arises from unmet expectations.  In human relationships, these can largely be avoided with gentle but direct communication.  That is, communicating clearly to your spouse, friend or co-worker what you want from them.  Without that communication, that other person may not fulfill your uncommunicated expectation.  He/she isn't a mind-reader, after all.

We also have unmet expectations between ourselves as consumers (or at MTO, hardcore freakazoids) and Leatherman.  We remember Leatherman's glory days - PST, OG Wave, Supertool, Core, $29 Blast (<< the apex of Leatherman IMO), PS4, Juice and on and on.  Our pleasure neurons were getting B-slapped (in a good way) over and over and over through the years.

Then, over time, things of course inexorably change.  Our dear friends (I say that jokingly, but not completely) start to disappear from Leatherman production.  When those $29 MTs start to go away, then the OG Juice and PS4 are taken from us, and we start to wonder what the heck is going on.

So we still have those unmet expectations with Leatherman as we do in human relationships.  We expect some more awesomeness like the Core or the Blast or the PS4 or the Juice.

And they never happen. 

In their place, we get a $249 (!!!) MT, or spray-painted Micras, or absurdly priced folding knives, or the same 8 tools from the parts bin rearranged in different ways. 

These things don't fulfill our expectations.  We want some real awesomeness to fill the void, like an ST300 with outside-opening tools for $99.  Or a resurrected PS4 or Juice.  Something to compete directly against the Swisstool Spirit, which has to have all outside-opening tools.  Same with the Rebar.

Leatherman could do it, but they don't.  But as I have said about 19 times on MTO, they don't exist to fulfill our expectations.  They exist to make $ for the owners.  Nothing wrong with that, but we lose sight of it when our expectations aren't met.

Leatherman is in somewhat of a tough spot, because the low-end of the market has been filled with excellent Chinese Leatherman clones selling on Amazon for 25% of a similar Leatherman offering.  Plus, there are only so many ways you can re-configure the same 8 tools from the parts bin.  That's not Leatherman's fault.  Its just that MT evolution only takes you so far.  Look at the Alpha.  Its got G10, which Leatherman has already tried on the Charge, gold/brass accents and MagnaCut which, sorry to tell you Leatherman, no one around here is begging for no matter what you say.  And then there's the price, which is far removed from Leatherman's glory days.

So the biggest gripers around here, and I include myself, include those who love Leatherman the most.  If we didn't care, we would not have unmet expectations.

In my view, that's what its all about.  Its partly Leatherman's "fault" for not giving us what we want, and partly not Leatherman's fault because once you climb Mt. Everest, you can't go much higher.

[tosh]

Same as me or tosh?  If tosh, the question is for you (or anyone else with the same opinion) too.  Maybe I should start a different thread.

Ok
For context my collection is just shy of 700 (693??) that’s just the blue chip brands  like leatherman, Gerber, SOG, Victorinox, Wenger , schrade, bucktool etc etc

So believe me I’m no keyboard warrior

I love MTs and SAKs  (or did)

However as fun as they are to play with I think they are utter garbage as tools.

LM pliers are Smurf, they rarely grip the nuts often the carbide cutters get chipped or damaged. The needlenose  is just not needlenosed enough to be of any use, likewise gripping nuts tightly often distorts the head (twisting) the Philips  when new is ok, soon as it’s worn it’s almost useless and unlike a regular 1/4” bit holder  you can’t just replace the bit
Also the cable cutters chew more that cut.
The blades are perfectly fine as is the file and scissors (if a little awkward and uncomfortable to use.

For what LM now charges I think they represent appalling value for money
A regular SAK and a cheap £20 pair of pliers are superior in my view

I think LM need to outsource the manufacture of plier heads  to proper tool manufacturers who use proper tool steel and have the expertise to create both needlenose. AND Blunt nose

Also I think LM should abandon the dreary tool load out  and instead go after trades
A sparky needs a different set of tools as a chippie uses likewise EMT and Rescue  need  completely different tools

Plus there’s fabricators, glaziers, mechanics  etc etc etc

The problem is away from forums MTs are often derided as they bring nothing  much  other than a gadget  that may or may not solve a problem at hand

But the current pricing for these new top tier lines is frankly laughable.

You may view it differently but for me LN is going backwards.

[David Bowen]

Same as me or tosh?  If tosh, the question is for you (or anyone else with the same opinion) too.  Maybe I should start a different thread.

With your comment Rich

[kirk13]

Ok, so for me, its a no because 1) as an when i get back to work, I'll be in an office, and office rules would look very oddly at any type of tool. Don't ask, it'll take too long to explain. 2) at UK prices on Leatherman, just no. When I started down the rabbit hole, LM was value, an Victorinox was flash and expensive; that's now reversed.

And 3) just saw a official video about the Alpha on FB. It reminded me of The Cool Wall on the older Top Gear( yes, i remember when TG wasn't the Claskson show). The acid test was if you had to explain why it was cool, it wasn't.  That just summed up the Alpha for me.

Now all you Gen Z'ers and millennial can get off  my grass

[Rich_SD]

We expect some more awesomeness like the Core or the Blast or the PS4 or the Juice.

Outside of the nostalgia, I think those are all inferior to their current offerings.  They're all cool and I like using them from time to time, but I would never choose one of those over a more modern tool if I could only have one. 

Thanks for the long answer

However as fun as they are to play with I think they are utter garbage as tools.

I have a whole toolbox full of very nice tools, but I use my multitools WAY more often because they're the tools I have with me.  I could carry multiple superior tools, but that would be a huge pain in the butt for me.

Thank you for the long answer too 

With your comment Rich

 

[David Bowen]

ok I'm not driving so I can give a proper response. Yes Rich_D I was agreeing with your opinions. I am conflicted with the path Leatherman is taking too. On one hand I miss the days of cheaper prices and the amount of quality and selection we had. But a lot has changed in the market, industry and the world. The multitool market isn't what it once was. Compared to the good 'ol days these guys are pushing to compete. When I was covering multitools at Blade Show we had CRKT, Gerber, Leatherman, etc all in attendance and was proud of show what was coming out that year. This year I was sorely disappointed to not see Leatherman or Gerber. Things in general I feel have died down. Only activity that's being done repeatedly is Roxon and other newcomers to the industry whether they are knock off/clones or not. So I feel Leatherman has two ways to go, they can rest on they're laurels and keep producing the same tools. Or they can put they're time and energy into innovation and thriving. Well the end result is a little bit of both, they are resting on their history and reputation and frankly they have good right to do so. On the other hand the industry being what it is now kind of foreign to them. The new knives they released as the companies way to diversify themselves and become more relevant. As much tooling and R&D went into the knives or even most recently the FREE stuff, you can tell it's costing the company some dough. They wouldn't do this if they felt it was going to fail, yes we have fails like the Tread series but every company has those ideas that fall short. Lastly we have tariffs and economy issues which have caused prices to raise and accessories to be removed. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but I see and understand where the company is at. They have a business to run and I can only imagine what it takes to run that monster. The decisions made are there to protect and solidify their place in an ever changing market. I know the Alpha is $200 with no accessories and that blows, badly. But it's not done to increase profits but rather protect I feel. I could be wrong but just my . 02.

I feel it's a really good tool, I appreciate the changes and the Magnacut blade. This pushes me to use my tool as my primary blade because normally my MT is my backup. A lot of guys do the exact same thing so I know I'm not alone. Leatherman gave us the model we've wanted for a while, a mini Surge. Sure it's not perfect, and they could have done it all in stainless steel and cheaper. But I feel we are at a point following the Garage series and some field testing that the company has done prove to them that people are willing to pay for premium. I mean if people will pay $$$ on Chinese made knives who's quality rivals domestic makers you can't help but notice. Businesses are realizing people want quality regardless of region and will pay for it. So I think the company is going to lean heavily into that to remain relevant.

As for the plier head comment. I think the heads for non USA made tolls were made in Mexico but I could be way off base with that. I don't care where they are made as long as they are quality and meet the companies expectations when it to internal testing. I would love to see drop forged or EDM cut heads like Multitasker but it's going to keep driving that cost skyward. Ok I've rambled on enough....

[greenbear]

Leatherman seems to have taken a strange leap of faith with the Alpha. It seems to be to be a downgraded Charge (which I believe is to be discontinued).  The tool changes seem to be limited to swapping the scissors for an awl and making the scissors the Surge type. I dislike the Wave/Charge scissors and always thought the Surge scissors were better, so you would think I would be delighted by this change, buy every multitool has one tool you don't use or don't like, it is just how it is. 

I guess it will all come down to price and Weatherman's are more expensive in the UK (import duty et al).

[David Bowen]

Great video and pics. How do they compare in thickness?

[Antti Lammi]

Looks like LM abandoded Security torx on Alpha making it easier to mod, but there isnt much what could be replaced since it has many tools i like. My only complain is that its gonna be expensive here in Finland (except price gonna maybe be 250€ or higher)  so i really need to sell something on my collection to be able to buy it.

[fullbreakfast]

Looks like LM abandoded Security torx on Alpha making it easier to mod, but there isnt much what could be replaced since it has many tools i like. My only complain is that its gonna be expensive here in Finland (except price gonna maybe be 250€ or higher)  so i really need to sell something on my collection to be able to buy it.

It’s not like anyone who enjoys tinkering to the extent of modding a MT, isn’t going to have a set of security torx bits anyway…

[powernoodle]

Thanks for the pic, DB.   

[David Bowen]

Thanks for the pic, DB.   

You're welcome.

[Rich_SD]

Well said, David 

It seems to be to be a downgraded Charge (which I believe is to be discontinued).

In what way is it a downgrade?  Other than losing the serrated blade, it seems like an upgrade to me.

[David Bowen]

Only way it's a downgrade is you lost the serrated blade. I would have loved to see a serrated blade and ditch the saw. In an urban environment I don't see the need for a saw very much unless it's cuffing a piece of PVC or something like that. So a serrated blade on the flip side for right hand opening would have been money. It's got all the same perks of a Charge with a slimmer profile, G10 that doesn't flex and a better blade steel. I think they have done a good job revamping the platform without going all out like the FREE platform. I still love tools like my Crunch, Surge, Pulse, Side clip etc but these new tools have me coming back continually. I appreciate old school Leatherman but things like one hand access to everything and other modern bells and whistles have me hooked.

[FolderBeholder]

Are these available to buy, if so where?

[Rich_SD]

October 14th

[David Bowen]

Saw a nice reddit thread where he makes some good points about what's going on in the multitool market and Leatherman.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Leatherman/s/sWxVAR0TMU

[FolderBeholder]

Thank you for the Oct. 14th, info. 

[Top-Gear-24]

With the ARC and now the Wave Alpha Leatherman has done a great job to make sure I won't spend anymore money on their tools.

The last Leatherman I bought was the Free P4. And even though they costed a wopping 200 Euro over here, I bought two of them, like I used to do back then, one to carry and one to stay NIB in the collection.

The way they promoted the Free (by, in a way, dishing their own most sold tool) already bothered me, and the fact that it was probably one, if not the most flimsy pair of pliers Leatherman ever made, didn't help either.   Fun to play with, I'll give them that.

Right now the only Leatherman I would consider buying is a Crunch 2, everything else they can keep.  If I have to spend 250 Euro on a Wave, I'd rather buy myself a nice Citizen Diver for that amount (or less).

And their knife line, well, it's not the first time Leatherman tried that, and with every new attempt, they seem to be getting worse instead of better, in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

[David Bowen]

Nice to know there's still tools with sheaths included. Heck you can get this, carry the tool with the included pocket clip and use the sheath for your Wave. 

[Rich_SD]

Free tool with the purchase of a sheath 

[gra_farmer]

So much of negative opinion in life arises from unmet expectations.  In human relationships, these can largely be avoided with gentle but direct communication.  That is, communicating clearly to your spouse, friend or co-worker what you want from them.  Without that communication, that other person may not fulfill your uncommunicated expectation.  He/she isn't a mind-reader, after all.

We also have unmet expectations between ourselves as consumers (or at MTO, hardcore freakazoids) and Leatherman.  We remember Leatherman's glory days - PST, OG Wave, Supertool, Core, $29 Blast (<< the apex of Leatherman IMO), PS4, Juice and on and on.  Our pleasure neurons were getting B-slapped (in a good way) over and over and over through the years.

Then, over time, things of course inexorably change.  Our dear friends (I say that jokingly, but not completely) start to disappear from Leatherman production.  When those $29 MTs start to go away, then the OG Juice and PS4 are taken from us, and we start to wonder what the heck is going on.

So we still have those unmet expectations with Leatherman as we do in human relationships.  We expect some more awesomeness like the Core or the Blast or the PS4 or the Juice.

And they never happen. 

In their place, we get a $249 (!!!) MT, or spray-painted Micras, or absurdly priced folding knives, or the same 8 tools from the parts bin rearranged in different ways. 

These things don't fulfill our expectations.  We want some real awesomeness to fill the void, like an ST300 with outside-opening tools for $99.  Or a resurrected PS4 or Juice.  Something to compete directly against the Swisstool Spirit, which has to have all outside-opening tools.  Same with the Rebar.

Leatherman could do it, but they don't.  But as I have said about 19 times on MTO, they don't exist to fulfill our expectations.  They exist to make $ for the owners.  Nothing wrong with that, but we lose sight of it when our expectations aren't met.

Leatherman is in somewhat of a tough spot, because the low-end of the market has been filled with excellent Chinese Leatherman clones selling on Amazon for 25% of a similar Leatherman offering.  Plus, there are only so many ways you can re-configure the same 8 tools from the parts bin.  That's not Leatherman's fault.  Its just that MT evolution only takes you so far.  Look at the Alpha.  Its got G10, which Leatherman has already tried on the Charge, gold/brass accents and MagnaCut which, sorry to tell you Leatherman, no one around here is begging for no matter what you say.  And then there's the price, which is far removed from Leatherman's glory days.

So the biggest gripers around here, and I include myself, include those who love Leatherman the most.  If we didn't care, we would not have unmet expectations.

In my view, that's what its all about.  Its partly Leatherman's "fault" for not giving us what we want, and partly not Leatherman's fault because once you climb Mt. Everest, you can't go much higher.

 

What this genius said