Post by: Valkie on June 26, 2023, 06:23:08 AM
And you may well say that a small pocket knife is OK, but not under the draconian Australian knife laws,
Any knife, or pointed implement will see you before a judge, even a Victornox Champ.
Its even illegal to have a knife in your car.
So Gentlemen and Ladies.
There you have it.
Australia is now a totally useless country full of moronic and scared little pulic servants who think that taking pocket knives off honest, law abiding people will protect them from criminals who couldn't care less about their stupid draconian laws.
I am 65 years old.
Carried a pocket knife or multitool since I was a cub scout.
Never even considered using a knife as a weapon (I can do far more damage with my walking cane).
But because of a collection of seat polishing, scared witless little turds, I can no longer have a very useful tool on my person, in my car and probably soon even in my house.
I can imagine eventually the useless grubberment will ban any sharp implements in the home as well.
All our food will have to be cut up for us before we buy it.
Tradesmen will have to register all their tools with some nice shiny new grubberment agency and require a license to use them.
I wish I was 30 years younger, Id be out of this hole.
Having custody of a knife in a public place or school will also carry a maximum fine of $4400 while wielding a knife will jump to $11,000.
“Under existing laws, the penalty for a first offence is punishable by a fine only these changes will mean that even first time offenders face the prospect of jail.”
Mr Hatzistergos said the laws would also increase the maximum fine for refusing a police knife search in a public place or school to $5500.
“We also brought in laws that ban outright combat-style weapons like flick knives, ballistic knives, sheath knives, push daggers, butterfly knives, and star knives.
“The maximum penalty for possession or use of any of these prohibited weapons is 14 years imprisonment.
Post by: greenbear on June 26, 2023, 07:13:28 AM
The UK knife laws have had no effect on the levels of knife crime which, sadly, have spiralled in recent years. All the laws seem to have done is damage businesses that sell knives - for example a local camera shop used to have a cabinet of Victorinox knives and he does not keep it filled any more as nobody is buying.
The really sad part of UK knife crime is that most knife injuries are caused by kitchen knives or machetes, neither if which are subject to restrictions beyond the purchaser needing to be over 18 years old (although I gather there are to be restrictions on machetes brought in fairly soon).
One feels a bit like a potential criminal just by collecting folding knives these days.
Post by: Echotech on June 26, 2023, 10:29:02 AM
Interestingly the greens intend to oppose it, which probably doesn’t mean much but at least they see that it’s not in the public interest
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/21/nsw-doubles-penalties-for-knife-possession-but-critics-decry-kneejerk-reaction
We need to get sensible laws here, where an old geezer (60) like myself with a rambler on my keychain isn’t considered a crim. Although I started carrying small pen knives when I was a teenager and have never attacked anyone ever, so sensible laws for all age groups
Obviously knife crime is a tragedy but the nanny state, overbearing nonsense we have to put up with is ridiculous.
And sheath knives banned completely, wow, that’s even more insane
Post by: ThisAlarm7 on June 26, 2023, 03:49:16 PM
Post by: nakken on June 26, 2023, 04:20:43 PM
Post by: Aloha on June 26, 2023, 04:38:58 PM
Post by: nate j on June 26, 2023, 04:48:27 PM
Post by: comis on June 27, 2023, 03:47:02 AM
Post by: Huntsman on June 27, 2023, 03:54:40 AM
I read ET's link - Did they actually change the laws? Or did they just double the fines?
And are we talking NSW or Australia/federal?
The tiered governments make it confusing - I did a quick search online on this - Some websites even said you could carry a SAK in Oz and I think one even said Boy Scouts could carry a knife - not NSW, maybe it was QLD !!! ..... Confusing!
I Know for sure in NSW (where I live) you cannot.
I still carry my SAK and plan to do so on an ongoing basis. And I have a plan for this!
Sorry we're not meant to get political here and as a moderator I should know better - But I have to have a moan - Australia's fines are just ridiculous.
I've been slapped with a $400 fine for having my car wheels/bonnet about 0.5m over the white line at a traffic light and $320 for not wearing a bike helmet (I forgot it) - And if you fancy a little scramble on the Sydney Harbour Bridge - You'd better save up $22,000.
Crazy amounts - and the cynics would say 'revenue generating schemes'!!
Post by: pietervn on June 27, 2023, 05:42:38 AM
I carry a Leatherman on my belt everyday I'm at work (Sydney Trains) I have never been questioned or stopped by the police who often parade stations. If one keep your head down and not set off the idiot meter one should be ok. I think younger people are being targeted at the moment. A bit of common sense (not very common at the moment) goes a long way.
Cheers, Pete
Post by: Farmer X on June 27, 2023, 06:42:30 AM
The tiered governments make it confusing...It's the same way in the States. Never mind that I have to be very careful when navigating Interstate 75...too much time in the wrong lane can find me headed to Canada with no escape.
I think younger people are being targeted at the moment.It would certainly seem that way, based on the article Echotech linked to. The comments from one smurf politician (to the effect that people should be discouraged from carrying knives) were particularly distressing.
This thread had me doing a little additional research. Australian knife law involves a lot of red tape. Apparently throwing knives are illegal at the federal level. And what is this bit about "sheath knives?"
Post by: Valkie on June 28, 2023, 05:42:36 AM
Its always been there and never even considered as a weapon.
I started with multitools at about 30, being an avid motorcyclist, it was an easy way to carry basic tools around.
If I want a weapon, all I need to do is use my walking cane (I carry it for personal protection as I'm getting older and criminals are getting meaner).
And with 20 plus years of martial arts experience, I probably wouldn't even need that.
But then again, the number of times I have felt threatened could be counted on one hand.
The sheath knife thing is directly aimed at the thuggs who hang out in some of our "less civilized" multicultural areas.
These areas are frequented by new arrivals who love pulling knives, machete and guns.
It has never been a problem until the last decade or so when the multicultural mix was changed from more civilized requirements to third world refugees.
Don't get me wrong, I both admire and know immigrants who have made Australia the great place to live it has been, without them it would not be as great a country.
But recent arrivals have demonstrated a violent bent unlike anything we have previously endured.
Simply looking at the newspapers every day, murder, drugs, crime, the names are all the same.
So, our grubberment have decided to go over the top and address the issue by making everyone a criminal should they carry a basic apple cutting tool.
I do carry a multitool to work and when volunteering for Marine Rescue.
I feel I can justify it at these venues, particularly Marine Rescue because a knife close at hand could save a life.
But for "every day carry" I just have to wing it and never carry at all, or be made to feel like a criminal for a crime I have never and will never commit.
I also have my collection of knives and weapons that were used in my Martial arts training.
I can just imagine the cops searching my home for some reason, they would have a fit.
Just as a final remark.
Its even illegal to carry a replica gun and wearing a bullet proof vest is a huge NO NO.
Its truely sad when a man cannot even carry a basic tool because "someone" thinks that tool will be used as a weapon.
Post by: Farmer X on June 28, 2023, 06:06:59 AM
Its truely sad when a man cannot even carry a basic tool because "someone" thinks that tool will be used as a weapon.:iagree: And I'm given to understand that self-defense is not a valid reason to carry a knife in Australia. Makes me glad I have the freedom to carry dang near whatever I want...
Post by: ReamerPunch on June 28, 2023, 06:08:07 AM
I just make sure to be casual and not raise any flags. I do avoid parks and shopping centres, especially if I have more stuff on me, like a fixed blade or a hatchet.
I also avoid carrying a folding knife. I don't think I can talk myself out of trouble with something like that. And I never carry knives or tools on my belt. I have in the past, but I feel it draws too much attention because it is unusual where I am.
I guess dedicated tools was another solution to not scare people. A dedicated bit driver or scissors are more acceptable that a multitool driver that also has blades attached to it. It is what it is. I'll keep carrying my secret edc tools and use them, minding my business.
Like Pete said, a little common sense goes a long way.
Post by: Valkie on June 28, 2023, 11:52:41 AM
:iagree: And I'm given to understand that self-defense is not a valid reason to carry a knife in Australia. Makes me glad I have the freedom to carry dang near whatever I want...
And it's even illegal to fight back.
My old boss was attacked, silly two attackers.
He beat one insensible in two punches, the second, he broke his leg.
When the cops arrived,he was arrested and the muggers taken to hospital.
In court, even the video footage from the shop front showed he was attacked.
But he was charged with "using undue force to protect himself"
An old guy ( in his 80s) and his wife were attacked, in their own home, by a couple of criminals.
He shot and killed one.
He was arrested and charged with murder.
Only the public outcry stopped it from going through and he got off on a manslaughter charge.
In Australia, it's tge criminals 2ho are protected and the victims ignored.
I b3lieve it's because all of our politicians are criminals and they don't want to set a precedent.
Post by: Aloha on June 28, 2023, 04:34:38 PM
Before joining MTO I was unaware of anyones restrictions when it came to sharps. I only focused on the legality of what I carried in my city. A decade later and now knowing a little more about what many of y'all have to contend with I feel for you. I am frustrated for you. I don't pack my pockets and think "oh well".
Before we begin to stray into areas of conversations that are better suited elsewhere lets please keep it as general as possible. Trust me, I am dumbfounded when such laws are passed anywhere. The laws and lawmakers are topics too highly charged that can lead to chat that is best elsewhere.
Thank you to those who have posted thus far for be the amazing MTO members you are. I just wanted to set a reminder for anyone who might want to post.
Post by: nate j on June 29, 2023, 05:10:17 AM
And it's even illegal to fight back.Here in the US, this seems to be highly dependent upon locality/jurisdiction. Some areas have strong laws designed to protect the right to self-defense. Other areas are every bit as backwards as you describe, and anyone who dares stand up for themselves faces a costly legal battle, at best.
My old boss was attacked, silly two attackers.
He beat one insensible in two punches, the second, he broke his leg.
When the cops arrived,he was arrested and the muggers taken to hospital.
In court, even the video footage from the shop front showed he was attacked.
But he was charged with "using undue force to protect himself"
An old guy ( in his 80s) and his wife were attacked, in their own home, by a couple of criminals.
He shot and killed one.
He was arrested and charged with murder.
Only the public outcry stopped it from going through and he got off on a manslaughter charge.
In Australia, it's tge criminals 2ho are protected and the victims ignored.
I b3lieve it's because all of our politicians are criminals and they don't want to set a precedent.
Post by: nate j on June 29, 2023, 05:48:41 AM
Its a shame any SAK could be seen as a weapon. I am truly at a loss when it comes to such views.
On one hand, I agree. Perhaps I simply lack the covert ninja black ops training to appreciate how lethal a Vic Spartan or Case Stockman can be, but I find non-locking folders in particular ill-suited for use as weapons, to the point that in most scenarios I would probably try to defend myself bare-handed before I would attempt to get a non-locking folder into action. I think a big part of the problem is that the people who write these laws have precious little knowledge of knives, and even less understanding of the dynamics of contact distance violence.
On the other hand, I find it delightfully ironic that much of the legal progress that has been made against some of the most draconian knife laws in the US recently has occurred precisely because attorneys have argued that knives are “Arms” under the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
Post by: Valkie on June 29, 2023, 05:51:17 AM
I am a law abiding person (for the most part)
never been arrested, never been charged with anything other than a speeding fine or two.
The only people I have hurt have either been in the ring with me or simply deserved it for starting it and not giving me an out.
I prefer to back off and apologize rather than fight, simply because I know how much damage I can do, and I have fought in the ring, so its not fear.
I would not consider ANY multitool as a possible weapon, other than as a but of weight in my hand (like a roll of coins)
And the shape of a multitool does not lend itself to that sort of eventuality as it not nice and round.
Additionally, the knives themselves are not designed for weaponry, yes its sharp and pointy, but as a weapon not real good.
I practiced knife and hand to hand fighting in my martial arts training.
The knives we used for fighting were karambits (not sure of the spelling, lets just say hook knives).
These are well designed to do maximum damage with the least effort, not a stabbing weapon as much as a slicing and dicing weapon designed to open up the attacker.
PS they were rubber training knives.
I was never any good with swords, Nunchucks or SAI, I was more a danger to myself.
I try to avoid trouble, and willingly back down rather than fight.
I'm too old to run away, but I can walk, but refuse to tire myself just in case I need my energy for other actions.
But and I say this with all sincerity.
There is no way on Gods earth would I even consider pulling out a flimsy and less than ergonomically designed multitool to fight someone (anyone).
If the situation required me to defend myself from someone in earnest, it would be my cane or, time permitting, grabbing one of my Kerambits from my display cabinet.
Which is highly unlikely.
This fixation that grubberments around the world have about pocketknives is truly disturbing.
Guns, I understand.
Machete and swords, likewise.
But a tool used in 99.9 out of 100 cases as nothing more than a tool, is asinine rubbish, perpetrated by a witless knumbskull seat polishing public servant with a fear of everything normal..
I would hazard that more people have been deliberately killed with a car, a screwdriver or even a hammer than have been killed with a pocketknife.
Are they going to ban cars? what about hammers?.
I will continue to carry my tools at work or when volunteering.
I will continue to carry my tools when bush walking, camping or boating.
But I will aquiesse to the draconian and pointless rules and mandates of the less than cerebrally gifted grubberment at other times.
Its sad for an old boy scout to finally hang up his knife.
But such is life in this day and age.
I guess the grubberment will continue to enforce knife rules just like they did to the 95 year old retiree in Australia recently.
They tazered her to death because she was carrying a butter knife and the cops decided that tazers were a better option than talking. (But she was holding a knife)
Perhaps tazers should be only given to competent people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/world/australia/police-taser-95-year-old-woman.html
Post by: ThisAlarm7 on June 29, 2023, 09:37:24 PM
This fixation that grubberments around the world have about pocketknives is truly disturbing.
Guns, I understand.
Machete and swords, likewise.
But a tool used in 99.9 out of 100 cases as nothing more than a tool, is asinine rubbish, perpetrated by a witless knumbskull seat polishing public servant with a fear of everything normal..
I would hazard that more people have been deliberately killed with a car, a screwdriver or even a hammer than have been killed with a pocketknife.
I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, but with this section you lose me. It's what ends up being the problem....you like pocket knives and multitools but nothing else so you're ok with applying the government rationale you decry to those things that you don't care about, such as guns and other "weapons". The vast majority of people with legal guns don't abuse them either. Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.
Post by: Poncho65 on June 29, 2023, 10:55:34 PM
Let's keep it steered in the right direction :salute:
Post by: Tasky on June 29, 2023, 11:52:53 PM
Its even illegal to carry a replica gun and wearing a bullet proof vest is a huge NO NO.Realistic replica guns can still be used effectively to carry out an armed robbery, which is why the UK banned such things... but why on Earth is wearing a bullet-proof vest illegal??!!
Aside from making you look like a bell-end, it doesn't impact anyone in the slightest....
Post by: Aloha on June 29, 2023, 11:56:29 PM
Post by: Farmer X on June 30, 2023, 01:52:43 AM
Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.Well said!
Post by: nate j on June 30, 2023, 06:20:39 AM
why on Earth is wearing a bullet-proof vest illegal??!!
While I personally believe civilians should be free to purchase and wear body armor if desired, I think the argument in favor of these laws boils down to the fact that bad guys wearing body armor are harder for good guys to kill than bad guys not wearing body armor.
Post by: Valkie on June 30, 2023, 01:03:49 PM
I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, but with this section you lose me. It's what ends up being the problem....you like pocket knives and multitools but nothing else so you're ok with applying the government rationale you decry to those things that you don't care about, such as guns and other "weapons". The vast majority of people with legal guns don't abuse them either. Punish and regulate behavior, not the objects themselves or harmless legal behavior with said objects.
It's probably the continual and ongoing indoctrination and grubberment propaganda that makes my uncomfortable with guns.
But as you say, "It ain't the tool, it's the fool weikding it"
Sorry if I have offended, it's unintentional.
Post by: Valkie on June 30, 2023, 01:07:12 PM
While I personally believe civilians should be free to purchase and wear body armor if desired, I think the argument in favor of these laws boils down to the fact that bad guys wearing body armor are harder for good guys to kill than bad guys not wearing body armor.
The way it was explained to me is.
You only wear body armorial if you intend to commit a crime.
That's why John Howard the coward wore it when addressing the gun lobby.
He was a corrupt, horrid little lying politician.
It was howard the cowards policy the drove the last nail into the coffin of gun ownership in Australia.
Post by: SteveC on June 30, 2023, 01:16:14 PM
The way it was explained to me is.
You only wear body armorial if you intend to commit a crime.
That's why John Howard the coward wore it when addressing the gun lobby.
He was a corrupt, horrid little lying politician.
It was howard the cowards policy the drove the last nail into the coffin of gun ownership in Australia.
We have allowed this discussion to go on so far as everyone has been pretty good about not getting too political. This comment could be the last nail in this thread if you continue to inject politics.
Last warning
Post by: ThisAlarm7 on June 30, 2023, 03:37:11 PM
It's probably the continual and ongoing indoctrination and grubberment propaganda that makes my uncomfortable with guns.
But as you say, "It ain't the tool, it's the fool weikding it"
Sorry if I have offended, it's unintentional.
No offense, we're good here my friend. I'm firmly in your corner on the knife and multitool thing and can only hope the legal environment there improves. :cheers:
Post by: Poncho65 on July 01, 2023, 04:48:02 PM
This is a thread about knife laws not guns. (Plenty of people on both sides of that argument and we will leave it be at that) We need to keep it in a friendly tone, leaving our personal feelings and politics completely out of the thread or it will be locked.
Sorry to have to be harsh but we have had more than a couple of posts to keep this thread on topic :salute:
Post by: SurgeUk on July 01, 2023, 07:11:27 PM
I know we rarely have to moderate things but that last post (after being warned) by Valkie (and ThisAlarm7 because he had quoted part of that post) was passing the line to much and is now gone :salute:
This is a thread about knife laws not guns. (Plenty of people on both sides of that argument and we will leave it be at that) We need to keep it in a friendly tone, leaving our personal feelings and politics completely out of the thread or it will be locked.
Sorry to have to be harsh but we have had more than a couple of posts to keep this thread on topic :salute:
I was wavering on this (based upon freedom of speech etc..) However, this is a non-political forum and MUST remain so, for the benefit of awl.
As much as I sympathise with others (from various parts of the globe) I don't want to be forced to close something down as my first act as a Mod (apart from removing spurious requests to join MTO) but I WILL!!!
A) Opinons; Yes (subject to "B" below)
B) Politics; No
Please keep this on track & look out for each other.
We have enough enemies out there without falling out with each other :ahhh
Peace. Out :salute:
Post by: Fireman on July 04, 2023, 01:22:30 PM
If I carry a SAK in my pocket, good to go.
If I carry a knife clipped in my pocket, good to go.
If I carry a sheath knife openly, good to go.
If I have a CWP I can carry a knife (of nearly any kind) concealed on my person.
If I go to Miami, I cannot carry certain knives that are legal in my home city/county even though I have a CWP.
Solution: don't go to Miami. 8)
Post by: Farmer X on July 05, 2023, 02:50:25 AM
Solution: don't go to Miami. 8)Thanks for the advice/warning! Last I heard, Philadelphia essentially banned public carry of any knife, making it another place I'd avoid. I may not have it great, but it could awlways be worse.
Post by: BPRoberts on July 05, 2023, 04:43:35 AM
Post by: Valkie on September 20, 2023, 02:46:34 AM
I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.
The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.
He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.
I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.
Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.
So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.
Post by: Echotech on September 20, 2023, 02:53:46 AM
Post by: damiross on September 20, 2023, 04:09:04 AM
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.My God! Why do they even allow you in public? :ahhh
Post by: Huntsman on September 20, 2023, 04:28:01 AM
:ahhh shakes head in dismay:imws:
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath? ??? :think: - I think that cop needs to check the law
A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc
And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.
Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out :o
Post by: Kev D on September 20, 2023, 10:27:43 AM
I've had warnings for using my bacho laplander and a multitool "in public" before in both cases clearing partially broken off branches that were blocking the path along the river where I used to walk my dogs. Both times from mounted police exercising their horses, and I've also had a nice conversation with officers over my multitool versus the one they were carrying over the virtues and drawback to each.
Our laws are as mad as Australia's but I still carry a manager on my keys, and usually a sak in my pocket, or more occasionally nowadays a multitool, and I have both a multitool and a vic rescue tool in my car. One day I may fall foul of an over zealous officer but as many have said, its a tool and in my eyes will always be so and that is what I have always used them as. The amount of time the swisschamp pliers have been useful to pull trolley coins out of trolleys to allow me to get one is staggering, or retrieve one out for an old dear.
Post by: Huntsman on September 20, 2023, 10:39:13 AM
Post by: pfrsantos on September 20, 2023, 12:19:00 PM
Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.You're a better man than I am (which is not difficult). I'd make a point to go to that same place at that same hour, with a different empty sheath every day. When I see that cop again, I'd lean back and make my Dirty Harry impression:
I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.
The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.
He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.
I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.
Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.
So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.
"I know what you're thinking. Is he carrying a knife or not? Well, since this is a knife sheath, you only have to ask yourself a question: do I feel lucky?"
(https://media.tenor.com/58cIXRxqg4IAAAAM/clint-eastwood-dirty-harry.gif)
Post by: pfrsantos on September 20, 2023, 12:19:50 PM
Hey Kev - Nice to hear from you - Have not seen any of your posts for a while
+1
:cheers: :salute:
Post by: Kev D on September 20, 2023, 02:01:29 PM
Post by: Aloha on September 20, 2023, 03:48:28 PM
Post by: pfrsantos on September 20, 2023, 04:31:33 PM
So he missed the sword in the cane then? ;).
And the boot knife too, apparently...
:whistle:
Post by: nate j on September 20, 2023, 09:05:32 PM
Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.This just makes me sad, and I don’t even live in Australia.
I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.
The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.
He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.
I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.
Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.
So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.
Stand up for your rights, folks, or you will have none.
Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -Probably some truth there.
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.
Post by: Sea Monster on September 24, 2023, 12:17:21 AM
Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.
I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.
The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.
He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.
I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.
Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.
So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.
Christ in a cream cheese sauce.
We all know just about any sharp is illegal in vic, nsw, and other select nanny states, buts is always been an "add on " offence that they pin on you if they're also getting you for selling drugs or assault or whatever. If the cops are not getting the brief that you don't randomly search people (even if they technically legally can, for our safety.....) We might need to have a word.
I believe the nsw minister for police lives just south of Newcastle. Might be worth contacting her office.
Post by: King_Gorilla on September 24, 2023, 08:02:20 AM
There is so much more I feel like commenting on but I feel like it's already been said by others.
I hope it somehow turns around in a more logical direction.
Post by: damiross on September 26, 2023, 06:04:04 AM
Post by: Sea Monster on September 27, 2023, 11:03:30 PM
With all of the knife restrictions and gun laws, I do believe the state and federal governments in Australia have eliminated all violent crimes in Australia.
Is this your learned opinion, or bait?
There's quite a bit more the governments do to reduce violent crimes - limits on glass, alcohol access for domestic violence offenders, severe penalties for 'coward punches" and other assaults, heavy use of high res security cameras in public areas, etc.
All of those are outside the scope of this forum though, and for the most part don't affect people trying to purchase an almond croissant and an ice coffee with a Swiss army knife on their belt.
Post by: nate j on September 28, 2023, 04:36:54 AM
Is this your learned opinion, or bait?I would guess sarcasm :shrug:
Post by: gregozedobe on October 01, 2023, 02:40:45 PM
:imws:
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath? ??? :think: - I think that cop needs to check the law
A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc
And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.
Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out :o
I agree, sounds like an over-zealous LEO was annoyed that his easyand obvious collar turned out to be completely legal after all.
I guess if I ever get a similar over-zealous LEO I might be in actual trouble if they ask me to empty my pockets, as I usually EDC an LM P4 in a pocket, and we all know what a dangerous big knife blade they have ... :think: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: Valkie on October 11, 2023, 03:43:04 AM
My God! Why do they even allow you in public? :ahhh
They shouldnt, I should be locked up in a resort somewhere so I can live out my life in lixury.
Post by: Valkie on October 11, 2023, 03:47:30 AM
:imws:
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath? ??? :think: - I think that cop needs to check the law
A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc
And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.
Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out :o
Yeah, I don't know what was on his (their) minds.
I don't look mean, yes I'm ugly but that shouldn't count.
Perhaps they were just having a bad day.
I had to laugh at a facebook post the other day.
In a certain country town, kids of a particular brand are wandering around carrying machete while attempting to break into people's cars
But no one seems to see that as a major issue.
But I cant carry a pocket knife.
Post by: Valkie on October 11, 2023, 03:50:16 AM
So he missed the sword in the cane then? ;).
Yeah...Na.
That would get me a quick trip to the cells.
My cane is a standard cane that old farts like me need to overcome my vertigo.
I pose a real and present danger to everyone around me at my age.
Post by: Valkie on October 11, 2023, 04:00:59 AM
With all of the knife restrictions and gun laws, I do believe the state and federal governments in Australia have eliminated all violent crimes in Australia.
Most of the laws I can live with, although its getting so that even taking a deep breath is a crime in Australia.
But fortunately, the majority of "Authority" figures have at least some semblance of common sense and logic.
For example, the water authority in Australia is called Maritime Authority cops a load of flack from boaters.
But in 99% of cases, its the boaters that dont know the rules and often break them.
Most of these rules are logic based and if ignored can lead to serious accidents and death.
But as a regular boater, I find their occasional review of my "Mandatory" gear polite and informed.
Even the one I had let my life jacket inspection miss by a couple of months, it was only a " better see to that" not a fine.
Most general duties cops have been polite and easy to get on with, although there have been exceptions.
I'm putting the whole incident down to "having a bad day" for the cops.
But be aware that the cops in Australia seem to be less tolerant, less obliging and less personable than any I have met in just about every other country I have visited.
Post by: gregozedobe on October 11, 2023, 04:39:05 PM
Most general duties cops have been polite and easy to get on with, although there have been exceptions.
I'm putting the whole incident down to "having a bad day" for the cops.
But be aware that the cops in Australia seem to be less tolerant, less obliging and less personable than any I have met in just about every other country I have visited.
I have zero problems with Aussie cops, but admittedly these days I don't give them any reasons to single me out for special attention. The last few decades it has only been random roadside breath tests, and as I don't drink (nor do I look like someone that might take drugs) all my interactions have been very smooth and easy. When I was young and foolish (don't they always seem to go together ?) my speeding did sometimes attract unwanted attention.
Post by: Vidar on October 13, 2023, 01:19:26 AM
However, while it used to be add-on charges, or used against people who clearly had no sensible cause for carrying a knife (self-defense not being one), these days some police seem to have lost the plot. From the top of my head I can remember reading about people being fined for having a knife in their car, workers not removing their knifes from their tool belts before having lunch in public, and my favourite the man using a multitool in public to slice an apple.
The latter is my favourite as he refused to accept any fine and took it all the way to the court - and he won! So while some police might have lost their way at least some judges still care to use common sense as per premise of the law.
(I'm old enough to remember the time when a fair chunk of the population were issued and stored automatic assault rifles, submachine guns, and some even bigger stuff at home. The world is certainly changing as knives now seem to be the new redline..)
Post by: Aloha on October 13, 2023, 04:31:03 PM
If we know the laws of our jurisdiction and choose to carry contrary to it, we then could face consequences. I'm also of the belief the "fight" is not with the boots on the ground but further up the "ladder". I am trying to stay on the outskirts of a political conversation but y'all know what I am saying.
Any energy spent in my opinion should be spent on rallying for changes where it really matters. I have read about cases here in California where people have chose to challenge those boots on the ground ( by carrying a certain knife ) and then taking on the courts and winning. Thats a cost I cannot afford financially. I applaud those who can. Truth is tho, it made little difference in the law written. Not sure how that works tho?
Whats unfortunate to me are those who vilify the tool rather than the person who uses the tool for bad purposes.
This topic is a hard one for me. As someone who enjoys carrying multiple sharps I'd be saddened if that was taken or strongly restricted.
Thank you all who have posted.
Post by: Vidar on October 13, 2023, 06:18:33 PM
I'm also of the belief the "fight" is not with the boots on the ground but further up the "ladder".
Depends on how the law is formulated. Over here the law requires the boots on the ground to make a judgement call. And I think that judgement has changed over the years. Here the law itself hasn't changed so that can't be the reason for the stricter policy - rather it seems like a wanted reinterpretation of that law by the boots or higher ups. But here that reinterpretation has not been done by the politicians as the law is unchanged. Thus people have to turn to the courts to have them draw the lines for where the room for reinterpretation stops.
I have read about cases here in California where people have chose to challenge those boots on the ground ( by carrying a certain knife ) and then taking on the courts and winning. Thats a cost I cannot afford financially. I applaud those who can. Truth is tho, it made little difference in the law written. Not sure how that works tho?
When people are winning over the boots on the ground in court that means the people was within their rights and that the boots judgement and interpretation of the law was wrong. Over here at least that should lead to the police adjusting their understanding and policy to be in line with the courts officially given interpretation.
Post by: Elevatorman on October 15, 2023, 08:18:06 PM
I seen what they did to yall a couple years ago.... they never tried that here. Sadly the brits fell down the same path, you cannot give them an inch or they'll take it all and you'll quickly look like Australia.
Nothing against you guys that live there, my empathy is with you.
*Distasteful and politcal comment removed
Post by: SteveC on October 15, 2023, 08:55:44 PM
Post by: Aloha on October 15, 2023, 09:31:07 PM
I am not above adhering to MTOs no politics talk.
Post by: Sea Monster on October 15, 2023, 10:44:57 PM
Sadly these laws have absolutely nothing to do with public safety or criminal activity, they are 100% to have total and complete control of YOU. I feel sad for yall as an American with rights to bear arms. Honestly if I lived in Australia I'd be getting my passport together to leave and move to America.
I seen what they did to yall a couple years ago.... they never tried that here. Sadly the brits fell down the same path, you cannot give them an inch or they'll take it all and you'll quickly look like Australia.
Nothing against you guys that live there, my empathy is with you.
*Distasteful and politcal comment removed
Ah, but you don't live in Australia though do you, so I don't imagine your opinion on what it is like to live there is worth much 8)
Post by: Valkie on October 31, 2023, 03:39:39 AM
My God! Why do they even allow you in public? :ahhh
They don't have any choice.
I'm still working so If they stop me, I can't work and their taxes are gone.
Went into Sydney the other day, on the train.
A guy got on with a large bag that looked quite heavy.
He was stopped at Circular Quay, where I got off, they checked his bag, it was full of tools.
He was allowed to go with no further comment, I recon I could do more damage with his tools than my pocket knife.
Post by: Valkie on October 31, 2023, 03:58:42 AM
I'm not a criminal.
I don't want to carry nasty, huge or fighting knives.
I have no need for a weapon to protect myself.
all I want is to be able to carry a useful tool when and where I want .
As a boy scout 40 something years ago, we all carried pocket knives.
Dad always had a knife on hand.
As I progressed through Venturers and Rovers, went bush a lot, hunting, hiking and just enjoying camping.
I always had some sort of knife.
It was an accepted practice to have a sharp knife on hand as it is so useful for so many things.
These new Multitools are even better (I wish they had been around 40 years ago)
I still carry "openly" my multitool when working for marine rescue, every sensible sailor has a knife.
I have used it many times in helping people and even saving a life
I also "openly" carry at work and also use it daily, more so cutting fruit than anything else lately.
When caravaning I have a multitool tucked away somewhere on me or in my bag, again, most helpful in a situation where a knife, pliers or screwdriver is needed in a hurry.
But everywhere else, I just have an empty sheath or nothing, often missing my handy tool.
I heard recently that a multitool even without a knife is now classed as a weapon, I haven't verified that yet, but I do know a screwdriver is.
My walking cane is ok...for now, but how soon before that also becomes a "weapon"?
And what about my wife's 14-pound purse with all its accoutrements...a weapon? I think so, I've been hit with it.
Its getting sad, but that's the way it is, and I can't change it.
Perhaps one day, things will get more sensible.
But as long as we have idiots running around with machete and stabbing people with kitchen knives.
Small harmless pocketknives will alwyas be a soft target.
Post by: gregozedobe on October 31, 2023, 07:37:27 AM
Its getting sad, but that's the way it is, and I can't change it.
Perhaps one day, things will get more sensible.
But as long as we have idiots running around with machete and stabbing people with kitchen knives.
Small harmless pocketknives will alwyas be a soft target.
Unfortunately things have changed a lot from the "old days".
In the past very few people went around carrying a knife as a weapon and not many people were harmed by knives.
These days there is quite a lot of of (mostly younger) people who do carry a knife and are willing to use them as a weapon, so politicians and police have responded to this perceived threat to public order.
Which is where we are nowadays. I don't like it either, but I can't see us going back to how things once were, with police willing and able to apply common sense.
Post by: Elasmonut on October 31, 2023, 09:47:03 AM
I had a few young cops give me a car search the other day, for having resting crim face, they asked if I had any weapons...I was honest and said there was a folder in my pocket, and likely a multitool in my bag....they didn't bat an eye or even ask about it. If you treat or talk about a knife as weapon, they will see it as a weapon and act accordingly.
Post by: Valkie on November 16, 2023, 01:50:34 AM
Laws are used by the police at thier discretion.
I had a few young cops give me a car search the other day, for having resting crim face, they asked if I had any weapons...I was honest and said there was a folder in my pocket, and likely a multitool in my bag....they didn't bat an eye or even ask about it. If you treat or talk about a knife as weapon, they will see it as a weapon and act accordingly.
I believe, like you, that attitude has a lot to do with how things go.
aggressive is matched with aggressive, and because these guys have guns, "you should never bring a knife to a gunfight"
The funny thing is that when wearing my rescue uniform, I wear my multitool openly and very visibly (for ease of access if I need it)
I have worked with police, other rescue personnel and even border and federal police in the course of my duties while being equipped.
The only time my Multitool has been mentioned was when a border officer noted that I had a Victornox multitool , as he had never seen one close up.
We discussed his Leatherman and my Victornox tools at length (while waiting for "something")
We discussed how and what we have used them for, never once was the "weapon" word used.
Why cant this level of innocence be assumed by all in our daily lives?
Surprisingly, he also carried an illegal spring-loaded knife, apparently not unusual I was advised.
But then, he also carried several other tools including torches and lighter, even though he didn't smoke.
I realise that knife crime is becoming a problem,
I also realise that the grubberment has to be seen to doing something about it.
but the existing laws were adequate, if only they were enforced, rather than making it illegal to carry such a useful tool.
England has become more sensible with some relaxation of their carry laws.
Perhaps one day, Australia will too............
Post by: Valkie on April 23, 2024, 03:53:03 AM
All of them have been mentally ill or belong to a gang and attacking each other.
You will all be aware of the Bondi attacks, it made the news all over the world.
But I stress, this attack and the one on the Christian preacher were done by mentally ill people, not ordinary people.
If they didnt have a knife they would have used something else
And the Bondi attacker was using a huge carving knife, not a multitool or pocket knife.
So, the response by the Australian grubberment?
Not to provide better mental health care (sadly lacking and in desperate need)
BOTH ATTACKERS HAD BEEN UNDER YEARS OF MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT, WHICH WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING.
They are introducing new laws and tightening up their powers to search "ANYONE"., "anywhere", "anytime" without any cause or reason.
Recent "knee Jerk" reaction was to start using metal detectors everywhere and they are having a field day.
So, I guess the death knell of carrying even a tiny Victornox classic has been rung.
No Australian may now carry anything without being potentially charged for carrying a "WEAPON".
The next stage will be that all food will have to be sold in bite sized pieces and all household knives confiscated, because you will no longer need or be allowed to have them.
Tradesmen will have to register all tools with serial numbers and carry authorization to use them.
All tools will need to be stored in locked cabinets when not being used.
Its so sad.
Post by: Huntsman on April 23, 2024, 07:12:26 AM
Post by: Vidar on April 23, 2024, 11:39:45 AM
Tradesmen will have to register all tools with serial numbers and carry authorization to use them.
We actually had a case here some years ago where 2 carpenters got fined for wearing knives in public. They had walked to a nearby cafe for lunch without stripping off the knives from their tool holding clothing. It was recogniced that the knives were for work and that they had the required civil use of the knives, but the lunch break was not considered work. Not sure how that would go down in Australia, but to me that fine was a lack of common sense.
I can only say that under current laws lots of what I and others did when we were younger would be illegal today. And yet, I'm pretty sure there are more stabbings today than back then. There is certainly a problem somewhere, but restricting knife access seems to be going after the sympoms instead of actual underlaying causes.
Post by: Sea Monster on April 23, 2024, 10:15:18 PM
What's more frustrating is the populist methods - a politician will stand in the house of representatives and make a statement along the lines of "There is no reason a lawful person should have a knife on public transport!"
and everyone cheers "here! here!"
but...that's not true is it?
Some people catch the train to work, and they might have a lawful reason for a knife - tradies, chefs, students (who need to eat lunch, but do not have access to a "staff room" at their place of education), backpackers (tourism is one of our major exports....and any sensible traveler has a knife).
There's actually a bunch of lawful reasons why someone could have a knife...
but even that 45 seconds of desktop analysis is not conducted when it comes to driving legislative change in the wake of traumatic news story.
Without getting too into the political weeds - as a sort of "cultural explanation" for interested parties - the Australian States (Less the territories, because they are the "fun states" and generally have the least restrictive laws, not just in terms of knives, but for everything) - basically operate on a "who can be seen to be doing the most policing" platform - so every year they "tighten up" a Law about something or another to ensure they are "delivering safety". Then the other states find out, and "tighten up" their laws to "Bring them into alignment with other states" and so on....
So, obvious Knife Laws is a subject near and dear to the hearts of members here, in context, it might be worth considering that Australian states have on-the-spot fines for loitering, jaywalking, and even swearing.
For your safety.
Post by: Valkie on April 23, 2024, 11:20:04 PM
We actually had a case here some years ago where 2 carpenters got fined for wearing knives in public. They had walked to a nearby cafe for lunch without stripping off the knives from their tool holding clothing. It was recogniced that the knives were for work and that they had the required civil use of the knives, but the lunch break was not considered work. Not sure how that would go down in Australia, but to me that fine was a lack of common sense.
I can only say that under current laws lots of what I and others did when we were younger would be illegal today. And yet, I'm pretty sure there are more stabbings today than back then. There is certainly a problem somewhere, but restricting knife access seems to be going after the sympoms instead of actual underlaying causes.
Exactly my point.
although I was slightly less eloquent about it.
Its not the knives that are the problem, its the people that use them and the weak stance against criminals we have.
Post by: Valkie on April 23, 2024, 11:40:43 PM
Valkie is a being *slightly* histrionic with the serialised paint scrapers - but yes broadly australian state governments take big leaps with laws after every incident.
What's more frustrating is the populist methods - a politician will stand in the house of representatives and make a statement along the lines of "There is no reason a lawful person should have a knife on public transport!"
and everyone cheers "here! here!"
but...that's not true is it?
Some people catch the train to work, and they might have a lawful reason for a knife - tradies, chefs, students (who need to eat lunch, but do not have access to a "staff room" at their place of education), backpackers (tourism is one of our major exports....and any sensible traveler has a knife).
There's actually a bunch of lawful reasons why someone could have a knife...
but even that 45 seconds of desktop analysis is not conducted when it comes to driving legislative change in the wake of traumatic news story.
Without getting too into the political weeds - as a sort of "cultural explanation" for interested parties - the Australian States (Less the territories, because they are the "fun states" and generally have the least restrictive laws, not just in terms of knives, but for everything) - basically operate on a "who can be seen to be doing the most policing" platform - so every year they "tighten up" a Law about something or another to ensure they are "delivering safety". Then the other states find out, and "tighten up" their laws to "Bring them into alignment with other states" and so on....
So, obvious Knife Laws is a subject near and dear to the hearts of members here, in context, it might be worth considering that Australian states have on-the-spot fines for loitering, jaywalking, and even swearing.
For your safety.
Im an old F#$t and I still remember the old days.
At 10 I was given my first knife, when I joined the Boy Scouts.
I carried that knife everywhere (except school)
I used it to death, and even though it was a cheap Victorinox knock off, I loved that knife.
At 12 my friends and I got into spear fishing.
Fantastic pastime.
But, Because we were only 12, we had to use public transport to get to the beaches and rocks from where we fished.
we all carried spear guns and havasacks with our gear and, of course, our diving knives.
From 12 until I was old enough to drive, this was a very regular pastime.
most weekends in summer and a few in winter, off we would go, fully decked out with our huge spear guns.
In all those years, we were never once questioned or stopped by the police or any other authority.
I carried different knives (mostly tools as in Victorinox) all my life, used them for everything and anything.
Came in real handy too.
especially with the old bombs we drove and never carried any tools around in the boot.
My father always had a very sharp knife on him as well, an old Boker from memory.
It was used often to cut up fruit (which he loved) and fixing things.
for 70 years he carried that knife, the last 10 years he went to a small classic as knife laws were starting to worry him.
The most honest, placid and least dangerous man on earth felt intimidated for doing something he had always done.
I have quite a collection of knives now.
I trained in martial arts using hook knives and I have a few as well as a couple of rubber practice knives.
These things are seriously dangerous and I would never consider carrying them on me at any time.
They are pure weapons for serious damage.
But I also have many "Tools" SAK, Leatherman, SOG etc.
These are TOOLS, not weapons.
Having trained with weapons, I would never consider one of these tools as even remotely capable of being a fighting weapon.
They are just not ergonomic or designed as such.
Now, and especially with the current fixation on knives, I carry my TOOLS only when working or doing my volunteering with the Rescue organization I work with.
Its sad
And many times I reach for my TOOL to be disappointed that its not there.
What will our next loss of freedom involve?
My walking cane?
My working tools?
Pens, belts, bags, steel capped shoes?
The list can grow as each new "FEAR" is exploited by corrupt and incompetent grubberments.
Sadly, this is life.
There is one area that has me confused.
A particular religion is allowed to carry a knife.
The purpose of this knife is stated as Culturally significant and religious.
But the true historical purpose of said knife (as stated by a friend who carries one) is as protection against another, (not to be mentioned ) religion.
Go figure?
Post by: Sea Monster on April 23, 2024, 11:57:28 PM
Post by: nate j on April 24, 2024, 12:13:49 AM
1. Start the church of MT.o
2. Carry whatever you want
3. Explain to anyone who questions you the religious significance of what you’re carrying
Post by: Sea Monster on April 24, 2024, 12:20:59 AM
It would be e easier to create a new political party.
(
Or at least it used to be. They've made that more stringent too. I won't speculate as to the reasons.)
Post by: Valkie on April 24, 2024, 02:46:36 AM
Can't have knives, tools, lighters (fire hazard and smoking in public is not allowed), nail clippers, torches (yes torches are considered a breaking and entering tool).
So this is my Daily Carry
Post by: BPRoberts on April 24, 2024, 02:08:40 PM
Post by: nate j on April 24, 2024, 02:27:25 PM
But when I see people hauling around 3+ D cell Maglites, or flashlights with “strike bezels”, I do wonder “Who do they think they are fooling?”
Post by: matzesu on April 24, 2024, 04:03:00 PM
Post by: Vidar on April 24, 2024, 04:41:46 PM
Im an old F#$t and I still remember the old days.
Hopefully I'll reach that honorable status too one day, but even without that I can remember getting my first SAK at 10. A Victorinox Fisherman (?) if I remember correctly - something fishy anyway. And of course I brought it to school to show off and compare with whatever other versions others in the class had. These days we would probably have been rounded up and made national news or something.
Of course, back then we also had monthly drills for quickly and organized evacuation into the schools bomb shelter - I guess the politicians were busy with bigger issues.
Post by: IMR4198 on April 24, 2024, 05:23:33 PM
Best wishes. G
:popcorn:
Post by: Sea Monster on April 24, 2024, 06:48:56 PM
One Moment Please: An Country where every second Animal trys to kill you bans :climber: ? So they get a worst Knive Law than Germany in the End..
Most of the things that *can* kill, don't actually try very hard to do it, unless you go out of your way to annoy them, so it's not a huge issue, day to day.
Also, most of the things that can kill you (and might try) are protected, so you're not actually allowed to kill them anyway, unless they've already started trying to kill you.
Finally, most of the the things that can kill you, if they decide to try, you don't have huge window of opportunity to do anything about it (an irukanji is about the size of a fingernail, and for all practical purposes, invisible)
All in all, the wildlife is a fairly moot point.
Post by: matzesu on April 24, 2024, 07:45:15 PM
Post by: Valkie on April 25, 2024, 12:43:27 PM
I would hate to come up against a 10 year old scout with a victornox in his hand.
He might build a shelter around you.
Or construct a hammock.
You never know with these dangerous kids.
Post by: Vidar on April 25, 2024, 01:27:16 PM
More to the point. The law is the law here but how it is interpreted seems to vary wildly depending on region and situational setting. That might be more even in Australia? Having visited Australia a few times I reckon common sense might be more common than this thread give it credit for?
Post by: Sea Monster on April 25, 2024, 10:10:59 PM
To be fair that there are still schools and areas around where knives are just tools like any other - more so in rural areas though. There are still kindergardens around where the kids use knives as part of their outdoors activities from they are 4-5 years old or so.
More to the point. The law is the law here but how it is interpreted seems to vary wildly depending on region and situational setting. That might be more even in Australia? Having visited Australia a few times I reckon common sense might be more common than this thread give it credit for?
Common sense might be putting it a bit strongly, but....allocation of police resources is a consideration I guess.
In a town with large ice issues for example, you don't tend to find cops pulling people up for jaywalking. It's not just where they want to do their paperwork - they're hip deep in "real crimes" (and domestic violence) issues.
But...look at it this way - given the power to randomly search people for "weapons" - now they can "suspect" people of having weapons...and oh look, we didn't find one, but we did find some drugs. oh-ho-ho.
You might say "Good! Less drugs on the street!" - but...Well, the discussion of application and interpretation of police powers might get too spicy for MT.O.
Suffice to say - I think from now on, lots of people will be removing their classics from their keychain, to save the worry of potential issues.
Post by: Vidar on April 25, 2024, 11:48:08 PM
In a town with large ice issues for example, you don't tend to find cops pulling people up for jaywalking.
That is actually a common way to tell locals from tourists in some cities around here. The locals tend to be the ones walking in the street just next to a perfectly fine sidewalk.
Yes, that power will be tempting to abuse, but as you say likely too spicy here. And I agree many or most will just not risk the bother or attracting attention at all. Sad if it comes to that though for actual useful tools.
Post by: gregozedobe on April 26, 2024, 03:51:20 PM
Suffice to say - I think from now on, lots of people will be removing their classics from their keychain, to save the worry of potential issues.
I'll continue to pocket carry my LM Squirt P4 and won't worry too much about it. The next time a cop asks to see what's in my pockets will be the first time, and I've lived in Oz for more than 70 years. Admittedly I rarely do anything to attract Police attention...
Post by: Carthas on April 30, 2024, 09:47:16 AM
I'll continue to pocket carry my LM Squirt P4 and won't worry too much about it. The next time a cop asks to see what's in my pockets will be the first time, and I've lived in Oz for more than 70 years. Admittedly I rarely do anything to attract Police attention...
In Queensland the government introduced "Jack's Law", named after a 19yo kid who was stabbed in the city. It allows Police to use a metal detector on anyone they like in a safe night precinct or public transport hub. The police deploy at the transport hubs and wand EVERYONE. Anyone they find with a knife or Multitool they charge - even if they have a valid excuse for carrying one as set out in Queensland's knife laws. It's up to you then, to argue your case in court. In the one case I've read where that has happened, the prosecutor offered a deal of a guilty plea in exchange for a $100 fine and no criminal conviction recorded. I expect most people will take the deal as pleading innocent means spending extra on court fees and no guarantee that the judge will find in your favor. Apparently the father of Jack is going to NSW to try to convince the premier there to implement Jack's law, as it has been so successful in Queensland, based on them seizing 1000's on knives. In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.
I can't help but feel that this is wrong, that the government is targeting innocent people who are lawfully carrying a knife, just to make it look like they're being "tough on knife crime". It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future, by acting that if you're carrying a knife, you're automatically up to no good. https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/03/28/morayfield-commuter-safety-crackdown/
Post by: Sea Monster on April 30, 2024, 10:47:50 AM
In Queensland the government introduced "Jack's Law", named after a 19yo kid who was stabbed in the city. It allows Police to use a metal detector on anyone they like in a safe night precinct or public transport hub. The police deploy at the transport hubs and wand EVERYONE. Anyone they find with a knife or Multitool they charge - even if they have a valid excuse for carrying one as set out in Queensland's knife laws. It's up to you then, to argue your case in court. In the one case I've read where that has happened, the prosecutor offered a deal of a guilty plea in exchange for a $100 fine and no criminal conviction recorded. I expect most people will take the deal as pleading innocent means spending extra on court fees and no guarantee that the judge will find in your favor. Apparently the father of Jack is going to NSW to try to convince the premier there to implement Jack's law, as it has been so successful in Queensland, based on them seizing 1000's on knives. In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.
I can't help but feel that this is wrong, that the government is targeting innocent people who are lawfully carrying a knife, just to make it look like they're being "tough on knife crime". It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future, by acting that if you're carrying a knife, you're automatically up to no good. https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/03/28/morayfield-commuter-safety-crackdown/
There's versions of this (what I'm about to say, not what you said), in most australian states - if you want the history read up on Garry David - basically in 1990 Australia decided to give itself the power to "detain" people because 'they might do something, somewhere, somehow' - note this is before all the terroism rhetoric that came a decade later.
Here's the title info from the NSW version of the "Community Protection Act"
'An Act to protect the community by providing for the preventive
detention of persons who are, in the opinion of the Supreme Court, more
likely than not to commit serious acts of violence."
More or less until that point in time, you had to actually commit a crime before you had business with the police - since then the states have progressively increased the "robust powers" the police have to "find bad guys"
I won't submit an opinion on the ethics of how Australian state policing occurs, just providing a bit of backstory to the last 30 odd years of, let's call it policing culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f9Vm2B6J5k
Post by: pietervn on April 30, 2024, 11:13:04 AM
It is sad that it has come this far. It would be interesting to see which knives have been used. Easy access kitchen knives has been used in most cases as far as I am aware.
Pete
Post by: Vidar on April 30, 2024, 11:30:45 AM
In Queenslnad, they're also looking at extending the places where they can use Jack's law to shopping centres.
Most shopping centres have shops that sells knives in some form or another, so that might be a challenge. Both from view of actual impact and from the view of how to get knives actually bought home..
Post by: Farmer X on April 30, 2024, 04:55:32 PM
Torches are considered a breaking and entering tool.YGBSM.
Post by: IMR4198 on April 30, 2024, 05:04:51 PM
"Hurry Ronald, I'm getting soaked. Oh, you oaf can't you find the key?"
"I'm trying dearest. Really. You think it's easy finding that dratted key in the dark. Let's see....? No that isn't it. I know I have it somewhere....
"Don't you have one of those pocket torches? You used to carry one. Hurry. My shoes are just ruined."
"Can't carry one now. The police call them burglary tools. Can't have them thinking we are breaking and entering or something.... I give up. Give me one of your shoes. I will use it to batter in the glass and reach through to the lock. "
:facepalm:
Post by: nate j on April 30, 2024, 09:52:14 PM
It feels almost like a dumb version of Minority report - where they try to arrest you for a crime that you might commit in future…
This is pretty much the way I feel about the “red flag” laws that have been popping up here in the US.
People can have their rights trampled and their property seized, not because of any crime they have committed, but because they might possibly harm themselves or others at some point in the future.
Even when the laws require a hearing before a judge, the initial hearing on whether or not to issue a confiscation order is generally held ex parte, so the prospective subject of the order doesn’t even have the opportunity to be present at the hearing to present a defense.
Also, while I’m not a lawyer, a casual perusal of the Bill of Rights suggests to my mind that these laws are likely in violation of one or more of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments.
Post by: nate j on April 30, 2024, 09:58:11 PM
torches are considered a breaking and entering toolIs that any torch, or just the ones big enough to be used as bludgeons?
IDK about anyone else, but my torches are mostly “see where I’m going in the dark so I don’t fall on my smurf tools”.
Post by: Valkie on May 02, 2024, 01:57:30 AM
Is that any torch, or just the ones big enough to be used as bludgeons?
IDK about anyone else, but my torches are mostly “see where I’m going in the dark so I don’t fall on my smurf tools”.
Dont know.
All I know is that some kids were detained at the local train station because they were carrying torches and the police stated that there were suspicious because they had said torches..
Now, I know they can arrest you for carrying other "break and enter tools" such as crowbars, screwdrivers and lock pics, but until then I had never heard of torches..
Post by: BPRoberts on May 02, 2024, 01:56:49 PM
Post by: Vidar on May 02, 2024, 03:08:14 PM
An example picture included - I think it is fair to say the light function is not the primary feature here?
Post by: Farmer X on May 02, 2024, 04:07:11 PM
The light function is not the primary feature here?In this case, I'd tend to agree. It sure looks like a baton that "just so happens" to have a flashlight at one end. My "tactical flashlight" is about 2.5 inches longer than my hand if the beam isn't being focused. (Because it's not at all pocket-friendly and has two or three irritating modes that must be cycled through, it sees very little use.)
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 04, 2024, 02:21:48 PM
Dont know.
All I know is that some kids were detained at the local train station because they were carrying torches and the police stated that there were suspicious because they had said torches..
Now, I know they can arrest you for carrying other "break and enter tools" such as crowbars, screwdrivers and lock pics, but until then I had never heard of torches..
Oh come on, are we serious? :facepalm:
I started a flashlight Challenge so it would be ok to carry, instead of doing the Giants of June challenge, and now I see lights are not ok to carry either? :rant:
What's next?
Can I still carry my umbrella? Pen? Lighter? :dunno:
Post by: pfrsantos on May 07, 2024, 06:47:59 PM
Oh come on, are we serious? :facepalm:
I started a flashlight Challenge so it would be ok to carry, instead of doing the Giants of June challenge, and now I see lights are not ok to carry either? :rant:
What's next?
Can I still carry my umbrella? Pen? Lighter? :dunno:
Are you crazy, man?! 'course not!
:twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Penguin_%28Oswald_Cobblepot%29.png)
Post by: Echotech on May 08, 2024, 03:10:38 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/07/swiss-army-knife-maker-to-produce-version-without-a-blade
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 11, 2024, 09:24:51 AM
Looks like I’ll be getting one of these then
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/07/swiss-army-knife-maker-to-produce-version-without-a-blade
A bladeless SAK or a knife-carrying religion? :think: I think it's time for Grant to declare his vision, and lead us to salvation. :salute:
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 11, 2024, 09:28:12 AM
Hey, maybe they can go the Elon route, and write "This is not a knife" on the handle. :tu:
Post by: old Lefty on May 11, 2024, 06:50:37 PM
A bladeless SAK or a knife-carrying religion? :think: I think it's time for Grant to declare his vision, and lead us to salvation. :salute:I’m in for the religion!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Farmer X on May 11, 2024, 07:37:49 PM
Post by: Vidar on May 11, 2024, 08:15:58 PM
1. Belief in something.
2. Rituals and events.
3. Gatherings and organization.
I remember someone who claimed to believe in the ways and policies of the of National Norwegian Broadcaster and worshipping Einar Førde who was their boss at the time. The believers would gather every Friday in front of the TV. The printed TV program for the evening was distributed, and they would sacrifice beer, tacos and chips while watching the program of choice of their leader who controlled the power of the remote. (Who was also the owner of the living room...) That actually met all the criteria...
Post by: Echotech on May 12, 2024, 02:42:25 AM
A bladeless SAK or a knife-carrying religion? :think: I think it's time for Grant to declare his vision, and lead us to salvation. :salute:
Back in the day some people in Norway made religions to avoid military service. To sort it out the law actually had some formal definitions that had to be passed to quality as a religion. From memory:
1. Belief in something.
2. Rituals and events.
3. Gatherings and organization.
I remember someone who claimed to believe in the ways and policies of the of National Norwegian Broadcaster and worshipping Einar Førde who was their boss at the time. The believers would gather every Friday in front of the TV. The printed TV program for the evening was distributed, and they would sacrifice beer, tacos and chips while watching the program of choice of their leader who controlled the power of the remote. (Who was also the owner of the living room...) That actually met all the criteria...
Sounds like we have a plan
:tu:Tbh I’m seriously thinking those of us in New South Wales need to get a petition or something happening :think:
I totally get the need for teenagers not to be carrying 12” kitchen or hunting knives but it’s ridiculous we may get fined and presumably a conviction for carrying a 58mm SAK let alone a 91mm
It’s been reported on the news a number of times recently that knife crime has been steadily decreasing for the last 20 years but the pollies are under public pressure to do something.
It won’t make any difference to a criminal or teenager, they’ll carry on regardless but for the law abiding multi tool carrier it puts us in a really difficult position
In the UK you can carry a non locking folding knife under 3”, this seems a much better compromise. There’s no way we’re going to get something better than that but it does seem something to aim for
Thoughts?
Post by: Huntsman on May 12, 2024, 03:15:54 AM
Tbh I’m seriously thinking those of us in New South Wales need to get a petition or something happening :think:
.......
It won’t make any difference to a criminal or teenager, they’ll carry on regardless but for the law abiding multi tool carrier it puts us in a really difficult position
......
In the UK you can carry a non locking folding knife under 3”, this seems a much better compromise. There’s no way we’re going to get something better than that but it does seem something to aim for
Well I'll sign the petition ET :tu: :tu: :tu:
It's the old tools vs weapons argument and surely for just about everybody carrying a SAK or a PB tool - Its a tool!
So I'd rather have no restrictive laws
I really think the law makers need to think about who is carrying these weapons and address those issues / approach the laws from that perspective, rather than just blindly homing in on the so called weapon.
But if you have to have a law - I do think the UK approach is pretty good - ie must be non-lockable folding and <3"
As you say the crims will still carry their weapons - And sadly I believe all these new laws in NSW/Oz will not have stopped the Bondi Junction incident.
If someone is mentally unstable they will still do what they are going to do. Just like the criminal
Sorry probably getting too political here.
Post by: Echotech on May 12, 2024, 04:04:01 AM
Well I'll sign the petition ET :tu: :tu: :tu::iagree:
It's the old tools vs weapons argument and surely for just about everybody carrying a SAK or a PB tool - Its a tool!
So I'd rather have no restrictive laws
I really think the law makers need to think about who is carrying these weapons and address those issues / approach the laws from that perspective, rather than just blindly homing in on the so called weapon.
But if you have to have a law - I do think the UK approach is pretty good - ie must be non-lockable folding and <3"
As you say the crims will still carry their weapons - And sadly I believe all these new laws in NSW/Oz will not have stopped the Bondi Junction incident.
If someone is mentally unstable they will still do what they are going to do. Just like the criminal
Sorry probably getting too political here.
Sounds like it’s time for a pub lunch and discussion H :cheers:
I don’t want to get political either, in fact I don’t think it should be political more common sense, but…….anyway won’t comment too much more but would be good if we got together anyway and discuss options. All welcome
Post by: Farmer X on May 12, 2024, 04:14:29 PM
In the UK you can carry a non locking folding knife under 3”, this seems a much better compromise.I guess that's true enough. But no locking blades would rule out an Opinel No. 6 (a great cutting tool, but a terrible "weapon"). So I'd suggest any folder with a blade under three inches (75mm) in length should be completely free and clear to carry.
Hopefully I don't lean too far into politics here, but I also favor clear and unambiguous terminology. As an example, Michigan law mentions per se "dangerous weapons." Among them are "double-edged, non-folding 'stabbing instruments.'" That's clear enough, I do suppose. "Dirks," "daggers," and "stilettos" are also on that list, and I've yet to see any of those terms clearly and unambiguously defined. While a per se "dangerous weapon" is not in and of itself illegal, carrying one is an enormous hassle. Oddly enough, a balisong is considered an ordinary pocket knife under Michigan law, and some states treat balisongs very differently. Mere ownership of one is criminalized in Hawaii.
I avoid anything double-edged, and think twice about carrying a fixed blade. Beyond that, I must abide by local ordinances that prohibit automatics and blades over three inches. It is almost a certainty that I will need to find new housing, and I won't be moving within my present city. That will eliminate the prohibition on carry of automatics (which I wouldn't do anyway, as I'll spend that kind of money on a good fixed blade) and larger blades. Unless I need to go to the VA hospital, that is.
As another aside, I've recently watched a few episodes of Forged in Fire on YouTube. The frequent and seemingly emphatic use of the word "weapon" gives me a little pause.
Sorry that I rambled a bit, and hope things in Australia take a turn for the better.
Post by: nate j on May 12, 2024, 09:33:51 PM
"Dirks," "daggers," and "stilettos" are also on that list, and I've yet to see any of those terms clearly and unambiguously defined.It might be worth checking out AKTI’s definitions page. They do offer good definitions for “dagger” and “stiletto”, but argue (very reasonably IMO) that the term “dirk” is too vague and not reasonably definable. Of course, it is important to keep in mind that no state or locality is bound by these definitions.
https://www.akti.org/resources/akti-approved-knife-definitions/
As another aside, I've recently watched a few episodes of Forged in Fire on YouTube. The frequent and seemingly emphatic use of the word "weapon" gives me a little pause.I enjoy Forged in Fire. Hopefully, if they ask contestants for a bushcraft knife or something like that, they aren’t referring to it as weapon. But when the assignment is to make a katana, calvary saber, claymore, etc., calling it a weapon is just calling a spade a spade.
Post by: Echotech on May 13, 2024, 08:29:35 AM
I guess that's true enough. But no locking blades would rule out an Opinel No. 6 (a great cutting tool, but a terrible "weapon"). So I'd suggest any folder with a blade under three inches (75mm) in length should be completely free and clear to carry.As much as I love Opi’s at the moment things are bleak here, a 58mm SAK is outlawed :ahhh
Hopefully I don't lean too far into politics here, but I also favor clear and unambiguous terminology. As an example, Michigan law mentions per se "dangerous weapons." Among them are "double-edged, non-folding 'stabbing instruments.'" That's clear enough, I do suppose. "Dirks," "daggers," and "stilettos" are also on that list, and I've yet to see any of those terms clearly and unambiguously defined. While a per se "dangerous weapon" is not in and of itself illegal, carrying one is an enormous hassle. Oddly enough, a balisong is considered an ordinary pocket knife under Michigan law, and some states treat balisongs very differently. Mere ownership of one is criminalized in Hawaii.
I avoid anything double-edged, and think twice about carrying a fixed blade. Beyond that, I must abide by local ordinances that prohibit automatics and blades over three inches. It is almost a certainty that I will need to find new housing, and I won't be moving within my present city. That will eliminate the prohibition on carry of automatics (which I wouldn't do anyway, as I'll spend that kind of money on a good fixed blade) and larger blades. Unless I need to go to the VA hospital, that is.
As another aside, I've recently watched a few episodes of Forged in Fire on YouTube. The frequent and seemingly emphatic use of the word "weapon" gives me a little pause.
Sorry that I rambled a bit, and hope things in Australia take a turn for the better.
If we are to get a bit of common sense happening we’ll need to go in simply and I feel if we start trying to put in too much we’ll have no hope at all.
However us Aussie MTO members can’t be the only Aussies thinking the same thing so I reckon we’ll have to do some research in EDC and knife forums and see what people are thinking.
The recent stabbings, more than would have made overseas news, scare mongering media and politicians trying to get votes from a fearful public aren’t going to make it easy
Anyway my two cents worth, apologies if I’ve crossed the line discussing politics mods, I’ve tried to keep it general but a very hard topic to discuss without some mention of it
If nothing else time for the Sydney MTO crew to have lunch :) :cheers:
Post by: Vidar on May 13, 2024, 10:32:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnosk4tWrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnosk4tWrg)
Post by: Echotech on May 13, 2024, 10:44:29 AM
I just thought about how different that famous Crocodille Dundee knife scene would look like today... :facepalm:It would be here in Sydney that’s for sure, but isn’t in New York so hopefully no change! :dunno:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnosk4tWrg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnosk4tWrg)
You’re not going to have a problem carrying a larger knife or fixed blade if you’re out hunting or camping or similar, it’s in the city doing basic EDC that’s the issue. Big part of the problem is the knife laws are very ambiguous
Post by: Farmer X on May 13, 2024, 09:15:14 PM
It might be worth checking out AKTI’s definitions page. They do offer good definitions for “dagger” and “stiletto”, but argue (very reasonably IMO) that the term “dirk” is too vague and not reasonably definable.I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for jogging my memory! :cheers: Their definition of "stiletto" is, I'm sure, markedly different from that in the laws of various states.
Scare mongering media and politicians trying to get votes...That's it in a nutshell. Punish the smurfholes, not the vast majority of citizens who abide by the law!
I just thought about how different that famous Crocodille Dundee knife scene would look like today...Today the entire NYPD would probably show up to arrest you. The AKTI's New York knife laws (https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/new-york/) page is quite a long read. I looked up one state I'm considering moving to, and its AKTI page took much less time to read.
Post by: Vidar on May 14, 2024, 04:30:31 AM
You’re not going to have a problem carrying a larger knife or fixed blade if you’re out hunting or camping or similar, it’s in the city doing basic EDC that’s the issue.
I found this UK lawyer discussing a case of wearing multitool in public interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-AegPFF4A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-AegPFF4A)
Basically everyday carry in case some tool might be needed was not deemed by a court as good enough to reason to carry a multitool. Instead you should have a specific task in mind to justify carrying. (And presumably for the offending blade - not sure a task involving the file would justify wearing a multitool with knife).
He has some other relevant videos too. Although they are UK specific some of the legal logic behind might be similar elsewhere. In one he says police might try to ask leading questions as "You think this might be used as a weapon?" - a question one should sidestep.
Post by: Valkie on May 16, 2024, 06:58:44 AM
Sounds like we have a plan
Tbh I’m seriously thinking those of us in New South Wales need to get a petition or something happening :think:
I totally get the need for teenagers not to be carrying 12” kitchen or hunting knives but it’s ridiculous we may get fined and presumably a conviction for carrying a 58mm SAK let alone a 91mm
It’s been reported on the news a number of times recently that knife crime has been steadily decreasing for the last 20 years but the pollies are under public pressure to do something.
It won’t make any difference to a criminal or teenager, they’ll carry on regardless but for the law abiding multi tool carrier it puts us in a really difficult position
In the UK you can carry a non locking folding knife under 3”, this seems a much better compromise. There’s no way we’re going to get something better than that but it does seem something to aim for
Thoughts?
My problem, and it is a problem.
Is that they are attacking the wrong thing.
Instead of attacking the problem (people being stabbed and threatened by large kitchen bladed knifes by criminals)
The put a blanket ban on ALL blades regardless of the legitimacy or innocence of the carrier.
If the existing laws were fully enforced and criminals were punished adequately, a blanket knife ban would be stupid.
And just carrying (or not) a knife does not make you dangerous or less threatening.
In the case a of a recent knife attack.
The attacker was brandishing and using a large carving knife (not a multitool or pocket knife)
When the weapon was knocked from his hand by a defender, he ran of and "somehow" managed to find another huge knife with which to threaten people.
This was in a shopping center.
It just so happens that there are a multitude of "knives" throughout every shopping center.
K Mart has them
Woolworths has them
Numerous kitchen product suppliers have them.
And most food preparation outlets have them.
So access to large knives is quite simple and easy.
But the grubberment says "lets go after everyone with a knife to show we mean business"
If anything this has made the use of knives Worse than before.
Where will it all end?
We are now given useless blunt, weak wooden knives to eat our meals with and wooden forks that cannot penetrate butter, let alone food.
We are made to feel like criminals all the time (all the better to control us)
Its a total joke.
Instead of targeting the innocent.
Make the law stand firm and PUNISH the ones using them illegally.
I can see a time when Martial Arts is made illegal.
when carrying a walking cane is illegal.
when we are no longer allowed to have knives at home (its already illegal to have one in the car)
Work tools will have to be registered
and the grubberment will have you completely under control.
Post by: Echotech on May 16, 2024, 07:07:49 AM
My problem, and it is a problem.:iagree:
Is that they are attacking the wrong thing.
Instead of attacking the problem (people being stabbed and threatened by large kitchen bladed knifes by criminals)
The put a blanket ban on ALL blades regardless of the legitimacy or innocence of the carrier.
If the existing laws were fully enforced and criminals were punished adequately, a blanket knife ban would be stupid.
And just carrying (or not) a knife does not make you dangerous or less threatening.
In the case a of a recent knife attack.
The attacker was brandishing and using a large carving knife (not a multitool or pocket knife)
When the weapon was knocked from his hand by a defender, he ran of and "somehow" managed to find another huge knife with which to threaten people.
This was in a shopping center.
It just so happens that there are a multitude of "knives" throughout every shopping center.
K Mart has them
Woolworths has them
Numerous kitchen product suppliers have them.
And most food preparation outlets have them.
So access to large knives is quite simple and easy.
But the grubberment says "lets go after everyone with a knife to show we mean business"
If anything this has made the use of knives Worse than before.
Where will it all end?
We are now given useless blunt, weak wooden knives to eat our meals with and wooden forks that cannot penetrate butter, let alone food.
We are made to feel like criminals all the time (all the better to control us)
Its a total joke.
Instead of targeting the innocent.
Make the law stand firm and PUNISH the ones using them illegally.
I can see a time when Martial Arts is made illegal.
when carrying a walking cane is illegal.
when we are no longer allowed to have knives at home (its already illegal to have one in the car)
Work tools will have to be registered
and the grubberment will have you completely under control.
Yep, that’s it in a nutshell :tu:
Post by: Farmer X on May 17, 2024, 01:32:36 AM
K Mart has themK-Mart and Woolworth's are still profitable in Australia?
Woolworths has them
And you're right: punish the fool, not the tool.
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 18, 2024, 03:24:47 PM
K-Mart and Woolworth's are still profitable in Australia?
And you're right: punish the fool, not the tool.
Woolworths made so much money they're getting sued.
Post by: Farmer X on May 18, 2024, 04:53:41 PM