Dutch Army Knives

[Agamemnon]

and the last picture:

[39hotrod]

 

[Myron]

Very interesting, Agamemnon!   I have a Kingston USMC from 1945, which I believe is the same knife.  They are beautifully made.

Myron

[Agamemnon]

Very interesting, Agamemnon!   I have a Kingston USMC from 1945, which I believe is the same knife.  They are beautifully made.

Myron

(Image removed from quote.)

 
Hi Myron,

Thanks for your answer, but I think your knife is a bit older than mine. I think you have the 1st version of the MIL-K-818; the MIL-K-818-A. I base this on the position of the can opener and the bottle opener.

The first knives were developed for the USMC. These models had the screwdriver and knife on one side, the can opener and awl on the other side. This was an explicit requirement of the "Marine Corps"
This was also the case with the first test models of the "Army". The Army Infantry Board tested the blades again and felt that the parts should be "different".

The 1945 Army model has the screwdriver / opener and awl on the left and the can opener and knife on the right. The first "Army" test knives, like the USMC knives, had a steel blade with a "Monel" handle. For the first test in 1944, it was advised that the blades should be stainless. The handles were replaced by stainless steel handles, as were the springs. In 1945 the "Army Infantry Board" approved the knives with the stainless steel parts.

The "Army" changed the position of the can opener to make it easier to open the square cans. The "Marines" didn't care because they already had a large stock anyway.

This "phenomenon" of relocating these tools can be seen in more countries, including the Netherlands.
We have the "brown" Amefa knives (with a fiber handle) from their early period (pre 1950) where in the 1st version the knife and the bottle opener are on one side and the can opener is the awl on the other. In the 2nd version, the can opener and bottle opener have also been swapped here.

[Myron]

Thanks Agamemnon.  Yes, I knew they switched around the orientation shortly after producing the knife.  And then there was the long dry spell until the Camillus 1760 appeared.  I have a few of those in my collection as well. 

But there is something very special about the Kingston MIL-K-818.  The brass liners on mine are beautiful. 

Myron

[Agamemnon]

Thanks Agamemnon.  Yes, I knew they switched around the orientation shortly after producing the knife.  And then there was the long dry spell until the Camillus 1760 appeared.  I have a few of those in my collection as well. 

But there is something very special about the Kingston MIL-K-818.  The brass liners on mine are beautiful. 

Myron

 

[EMZ]

A US marked Camillus is still on my wish list. Well, some day... who knows.

I don't buy anymore from Ebay. Postage & Handling plus the fees for the Bay and Paypal are too high.

For lovers of the Holy Grail of DAK's I found this ad on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLY-GRAIL-Victorinox-Master-Craftsman-Blue-Smooth-Alox-Swiss-Army-Knife-KLU-KM/193462422864?hash=item2d0b424d50:g:7koAAOSwobFeuvfI

Is it too expensive? Well, for me it is, but maybe someone will buy.
Please be sure, I am NOT the seller of this pocket knife!! And I have no interest in selling, nor buying it.
All I can say, I recently bought a knife from this seller and it was a positive experiences.
Just wanted you to know.

[glenfiddich1983]

This knife is for sale for quite some time now, started at $ 999 iirc. Even though very rare I think it is way overpriced given the bad condition

[Agamemnon]

 

Is it a Dutch Army knife (or is it British or Canadian or Belgian or French or maybe German)?

It is a knife of the Royal Navy, the so-called boatswain's knife. It is a three-part knife, stainless steel with a black ribbed Bexoid body. Folding knife, can opener and marlin spike. Metal bail. Length 17.3 cm.

It is a "derivative" of the Allied "Clasp knife" (naval variant) and was used by many countries after the war. Was made for the Netherlands in England during the Korean War and was called the “Churchill”. The NDVN (Dutch Detachment United Nations), part of the Regiment Van Heutsz of the Royal Netherlands Army and therefore also called the Van Heutsz Battalion, remained detached to the 38th Reg. 2nd Inf. Div. ‘Indianhead’ - 8th Army Corps in Korea for almost the entire time.
 
In addition to these "new" knives, the English "Broad Arrow" knives were also used with the approval of MvO (Ministry of War) in Dutch New Guinea (1961 - 1963).

From around 1965, the Royal Marine Corps had the knife of the Adler company in use. The knife was in use by the Marine Corps in the period 1993-2000.

So far the Dutch Army Knives.

The English ancestors:

This model knife was the standard British Army knife and was issued from the late 1930s to the early 1950s. In addition to the knife and the can opener, the knives had a marlin spike (Navy; they were very fond of the marlin spike and wanted to keep it). The black handles are made of Bexoid.

The Belgium cousins: ABL knives

These knives look exactly like the British models and were issued to the Belgian army after the second war. The knife, marked ABL CC 0530, is made in Great Britain (Sheffield) under license from the Belgian army (CC code). This knife has the same larger can opener as the English models. All these knives were made in the period of the Korea war (1950 - 1953); Belgium also had a detachment in Korea.

One model is only marked with ABL (comparable to the Dutch KL) without further additions. They all have a marlin spike and bear the letters ABL (a mixed language abbreviation of Armée Belge and Belgisch Leger), the manufacturer / supplier (Colasse, Libert & Colin Winand) and the year of issue (1950, 1951 or 1952). I also have one dated 1966, the youngest one I’ve seen so far.

The knives used by the Air Force have a stylized "pine tree" on the can opener. This pine tree can occur in various places and in various shapes.

The Belgian navy knives are marked with an anchor and the letter ZM-FN (ZeeMacht - Force Naval) and were made in Solingen (Friedrichswerk).

All the handles are made of Bexoid.

[Agamemnon]

And the Belgiums:

[Mechanickal]

I have a 1952 Colasse only because I'm Belgian.
The springs are super tough,
The handles feel crude,
The overall feel isn't pleasant.

I'm a bit disappointed to see the Belgian Army never invested in some decent pocket knives.

[Agamemnon]

I have a 1952 Colasse only because I'm Belgian.
The springs are super tough,
The handles feel crude,
The overall feel isn't pleasant.

I'm a bit disappointed to see the Belgian Army never invested in some decent pocket knives.

 

Indeed Mechanickal, the springs are extremely strong, even after all these years.
The only difference with “the old” Belgian knives and “the new” is the size, as you see it in more countries.
My old Belgian navy knife (but with a nicer anchor) with screwdriver and marlin spike. (see picture)

[EMZ]

Great collection of Belgian knives, Agamemnon!

And thanks to Agamemnon, who was so kind to inform me that this knife was offered on Ebay, I now also have the experimental DAK Parachutist. 
See pic's.

[Agamemnon]

Great collection of Belgian knives, Agamemnon!

And thanks to Agamemnon, who was so kind to inform me that this knife was offered on Ebay, I now also have the experimental DAK Parachutist. 
See pic's.

 

Thank EMZ.
It goes without saying that when I know that someone is looking for something, I 'give a signal' (if possible).

[Myron]

So this is very cool.  The DAK parachutist was a Model 2008 SAK with a belt cutter substituted for wood saw?  Congratulations EMZ and well-played Agamemnon. 

[Agamemnon]

 

At a certain point it was decided that the 1st Interservice model of Victorinox Model 1992 (DAK1993) had to be replaced by a model with 3 layers (NSN 5110-17-106-2332).

The Netherlands opted for the Zwanenburg (Model 2006). It turned out that this was not a good choice. After a short period of time, in an effort to provide a better knife, version 1 was replaced with version 2 - a slightly heavier (25 grams) knife with wider liners.(2008). This also proved unsuccessful. The Zwanenburg "served" in the period 2005/6 - 2008/9.

Victorinox's OH-Parachutist came into the picture.

The Netherlands did not need a wood saw, but preferred a belt cutter like at the Zwanenburg. A test model was introduced, with the famous green scales and Interservice logo, but without scale tools to replace the "Zwanenburg".

For some reason (no longer traceable) the test of this model was not continued, so it was not in use.
There are only a few of these knives in 'circulation'.
Finally in 2010 it was decided to continue with Model 2010 (DAK 2010), which is still in use today.

[Myron]

Excellent, thank you Agamemnon!

[Agamemnon]

 

Today I want to show you my German army knives (111 GAK) tell you something about it. In particular the similarities (and differences) between the German and the Dutch army knives.

The differences: we have the “Interservice logo” and a belt cutter. The Germans have the “Bundesadler” (Pleitegeier) and a wood saw.

Due to cutbacks in defence spending in the Netherlands and Germany, as a result of which the Netherlands could not keep the 1st Army Corps up to strength and Germany could not raise a full third Army Corps, both countries decided to set up a joint German-Dutch Army Corps, 1 (GE/NL) Corps (30/8/1995). The First German-Dutch Army Corps is a NATO defence unit, consisting of German and Dutch army units. Its headquarters are located in the German city of Münster.

The result is that German and Dutch soldiers work together, but they do have different pocket knives. I was able to swap many knives with the help of my army friends.
Even when Dutch soldiers are on a mission, they have a "special" mission: trying to exchange pocket knives.

When we were using the DAK93 in the Netherlands, the German army had "Modell 2000", made by the Mil-Tec company, as a replacement for the 108 GAK. (I'll tell more about the 108 GAK next time and show my collection.)

At one point it was decided that "Modell 2000" should be replaced by a new model. Germany preferred the Victorinox 111 OH GAK, the Netherlands opted for the Zwanenburg (Model 2006).

Just like in the Netherlands, the GAK was also not available in Germany at one point. As an interim solution, the civilian Forester (with corkscrew instead of screwdriver and saw and with green scales) was provided. With DE-GM 9305297 (so before 2006).

Germany continued with the 1st model 111 OH GAK despite the criticism of the oval opening. In 2007, the 2nd model 111 OH GAK was put into use, with a round opening that made it easier to open the knife with one hand.

In 2003 the 108 GAK (108 GAK) nicknamed “BW-Stumpf” was permanently replaced by the 111 OH GAK.
In addition to these knives, Germany also uses the “Rucksack”. These are in used by GSG9 and BGS - Fliegergruppe.

[Myron]

Excellent and informative post, Agamemnon.  You have an amazing collection!

[EMZ]

Excellent collection!

I just wondered... Has the Austrian Army pocket knives and/or multi-tools?

[Agamemnon]

 

@ EMZ: I've never seen an Austian army knife, so I don't know. Sorry.

In 1976 the German Bundeswehr introduced a large, light and robust green pocket knife of the Victorinox brand as Combi Taschenmesser (108 GAK), nicknamed BW-Stumpf, and remained in use until 2003. It was replaced by the 111 OH GAK (Trekker). Victorinox made the knife from 1976 to 1986.

From 1986 to 1997, Victorinox supplied the parts to Adler Messer GmbH. The knife was made on behalf of and according to the specifications of the German army. It was the first knife with nylon handles instead of fibre or Cellidor.

Two 'generations' can be distinguished from the 108 GAK Victorinox:
1st generation: This generation (before 1985) did not have a nail file.
2nd generation: with nail file (from 1985).

Moreover, with 108 GAK there are 4 variations in the stamping on the ricasso.
108 GAK - variant # 1. All letters the same size - 2 lines: VICTORINOX / ROSTFREI
108 GAK - Variant # 2. All letters the same size - 3 lines: VICTORINOX / SWISS MADE / STAINLESS
108 GAK - variant # 3 - All letters the same size - 4 lines: VICTORINOX / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS / ROSTFREI
108 GAK-2 - Victorinox (1985-1986)
This GAK-2 (1985) has a modified saw / opener with a strip on the blade that serves as a nail file and to strike a match. The stamping - variant # 4 - capital letter "V": Victorinox / switzerland / stainless / rostfrei. This is the last 108 GAK released by Victorinox.

Besides Victorinox there are also other producers who made this Bundeswehrmesser. (e.g. Adler, CCM, Robt. Klass, B&H, I.C.A.R, TSR, Mil-Tec, Aitor). These are, with the exception of Adler (parts from Victorinox), of lower quality.

108 GAK - M.F.H. - Offiziers Messer
There is also an "officer version" of the 108 GAK. In addition to the usual components (no file), this knife also has combination pliers. MFH: Max Fuchs AG, Freyung.

[Agamemnon]

And my knives:

[Mechanickal]

Do you, by any chance, know when/where the GSG9 tribute knives were available?
(The ones with the actual GSG9 logo on the scales)
These weren't issued, but don't look as if they'd be available for civilian purchase either.

[Agamemnon]

Do you, by any chance, know when/where the GSG9 tribute knives were available?
(The ones with the actual GSG9 logo on the scales)
These weren't issued, but don't look as if they'd be available for civilian purchase either.

 
Hi Mechanickal,
i got this knife from a friend of mine, but I don't remember when it was. So, sorry.

[Mechanickal]

Hi Mechanickal,
i got this knife from a friend of mine, but I don't remember when it was. So, sorry.

That's the one!

Found one on a local ad site for €20.
It's an intriguing one...

[Mechanickal]

Hold up...
Mine is a Rucksack model.
Slide lock...

[EMZ]

Yesterday I visited an acquaintance of mine, who showed me this box full of KL89'ers 
Unfortunately he wasn't willing to sell it.

Translation of the text:
NSN = NATO Stock Number, in which the number 17 represents the Netherlands.
Mes, zak - aantal 25 = Knife, pocket - amount 25
11/89 = Month / Year
homeij oisterwijk bv = Homeij is the name of the Victorinox representative company, settled in the town called Oisterwijk. BV = Ltd.

[Reinier]

That's a cool box full of goodies

Talking about Homeij: https://www.bva-auctions.com/en/auction/index/51301

Also, I sent them a letter appr. 25 years ago and I got a bunch of catalogues, stickers etc. in return Good stuff.

[Guardian]

Fell of the back of an army lorry?

[Agamemnon]

 

  A stranger.

Yesterday I received a new Victorinox DAK. The knife is brand new and has never been used. Has a few tiny scratches. At first it looks like the DAK2010 that we currently have in use in the Netherlands.
Until I open the knife:
•   The knife has a large knife blade, partly serrated, liner-locking and one-hand opening;
•   A belt cutter, serrated with safety tip, liner-locking and one-hand-opening;
•   And, surprise, a wood saw.
•   In addition, it has a corkscrew and the key-ring
•   There is no cap-lifter or can-opener
It seems to be a military version of the “Hunter XT” (2nd version). But, who can tell me anything more about this, please tell me.