Help me overcome my inability to sharpen a knife...

[gustophersmob]

Howdy!

Even though I love my SAKs, I can't seem to get them to sharpen up for anything.

I have a Lansky kit with 5 different grits that I have been using (on the 20 setting), but the edge still comes out terrible.  It is hard to cut through paper, much less shave arm hair.

I have also used a little Smith's sharpener (identical to the Vic one here), but I think it succeeds in making the knife more dull.

So what am I doing wrong?

I'm inclined to try just a stone or a Sharpmaker, but don;t want to waste more money if they don't work.  If I can't even get e good edge with the Lansky, which should take the guesswork out compared to a stone, I don't know if I could successfully use one.  And the Sharpmaker is just a variation on the guesswork removal theme (although more easily setup than the Lansky).

Anyone else have this issue?  Any tips?

Thanks!

[craigy]

it will proberly be down to your technique now im no expert but i get a good edge on my knives and marples chistles my chistles i use a bog standard oil stone for my knives however i bought a fallkniven u1 penknife for a edc and while i was there i got a fallkniven dc4 sharpening stone no oil or anuythin g is needed just use a angle of about 15 degrees and i find that supurb its about 15 quid posted to your door works well for me others have different ideas and techniques.

[prime77]

The Lansky kit is a good sharpening system and you should get good results with it.  What I would do is set up your clamp and get ready to sharpen but first mark your edge with a sharpie first. Then when you start sharpening see where the stones are hitting the bevel. You maybe hitting the shoulder of the bevel and not going all the way to the edge. If you are hitting the shoulder you need to take some metal off and work all the way to the edge. The sharpie mark will help there. Once you work to the edge you need to check to see if you are forming a burr on the other side of the edge. You can feel this with you fingers of look under a bright light to help. Once you have a burr switch sides and do the whole process again on the other side. Once you have formed a burr on both sides alternate strokes very lightly from one side to another to remove it. Do this process for each stone. Once you get to the higher grit stones the burr will be harder to feel for and see so take your time. 

[gustophersmob]

The Lansky kit is a good sharpening system and you should get good results with it.  What I would do is set up your clamp and get ready to sharpen but first mark your edge with a sharpie first. Then when you start sharpening see where the stones are hitting the bevel. You maybe hitting the shoulder of the bevel and not going all the way to the edge. If you are hitting the shoulder you need to take some metal off and work all the way to the edge. The sharpie mark will help there. Once you work to the edge you need to check to see if you are forming a burr on the other side of the edge. You can feel this with you fingers of look under a bright light to help. Once you have a burr switch sides and do the whole process again on the other side. Once you have formed a burr on both sides alternate strokes very lightly from one side to another to remove it. Do this process for each stone. Once you get to the higher grit stones the burr will be harder to feel for and see so take your time.

Thanks for the tips! 

I have a couple of questions, though:

1) Do you recommend starting with a certain grit stone?  The coarsest one seems almost too coarse to me, but I really have nothing to base that opinion on.

2) Should I do a certain number of passes before switching to the other side?  Or alternate sides with each pass?

3) This is hard to describe, but should I go from the blade tang to the tip in one pass, or use multiple passes moving down a section at a time?  Multiple passes to cover the edge is what I do now, maybe that's part of my problem....

Thanks again for your help!

[gustophersmob]

it will proberly be down to your technique now im no expert but i get a good edge on my knives and marples chistles my chistles i use a bog standard oil stone for my knives however i bought a fallkniven u1 penknife for a edc and while i was there i got a fallkniven dc4 sharpening stone no oil or anuythin g is needed just use a angle of about 15 degrees and i find that supurb its about 15 quid posted to your door works well for me others have different ideas and techniques.

I was looking at the DC4.  I know so little about stones, though, that I don't really understand why this one would be better/worse than others? 

[prime77]

SAK Steel is pretty soft so you may not need to use the coarse stone. It's just a matter of choice for you. See how well the fine stone works for you and then make a decision. You don't really need to count your strokes from one side to another. Just make sure you are working to the edge and forming a burr before switching sides. I would work from the tang to the tip and and multiple strokes should be fine. You can save those one tang to tip swoops for the light strokes when you alternate from one side to the other when removing the burr.

[Pacu]

i give the guy at the gun show 2 bucks to sharpen my blades. Not bad either. I love gun shows, he needs customers, i have dull blades, he has all the expensive equipment, paper wheels and the like. It's win-win.

At home i just use a whetstone and a finishing japanese water stone. Gets em pretty darn sharp.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

it will proberly be down to your technique now im no expert but i get a good edge on my knives and marples chistles my chistles i use a bog standard oil stone for my knives however i bought a fallkniven u1 penknife for a edc and while i was there i got a fallkniven dc4 sharpening stone no oil or anuythin g is needed just use a angle of about 15 degrees and i find that supurb its about 15 quid posted to your door works well for me others have different ideas and techniques.

I was looking at the DC4.  I know so little about stones, though, that I don't really understand why this one would be better/worse than others? 

If you live near me i'll sharpen for you lol. Uhh, saks are sharpened at 30 inclusive, 15 per side. Like someone said in earlier posts, raising a burr is a good thing. Don't be afraid to use coarse stones. The steel on a sak is soft, but you won't hurt the knife. the 40 inclusive you're sharpening is the bevel, not the edge. That's the edge you can see, which is 20 per side. Go with 15 per side and see how well that does for you. When you feel a burr, switch to the other side and sharpen. Then do a few swipes with a fine grit, not much pressure. test for a burr on your thumb nail, just face the edge out and drag the knife, spine towards you up your thumbnail at an angle, not flat. it will scrape nail off if theres a burr. Do one pass on the side that scraped and see if its still there, then check the other side. any more questions feel free to ask, my edges can whittle hair, even my SAK's, and i sharpen freehand :-).

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

You could follow this link mate Ray Mears / Sharpening a Knife at Camp_Part 1/2 as there's a great video tutorial by Mr Mears himself.

Or just get a Spyderco Sharpmaker

[AHB]

Or just get a Spyderco Sharpmaker

Fool-proof solution... 

[Singh]

one of the things NEVER mentioned in these threads is how much pressure ones applies on the knife as they run through a sharpener. I would advise a very light touch. (anyone else have thoughts on this?)

I'm good at keeping my knives sharp by running them lightly through a carbide sharpener after they've been used a few times. I then follow up with a few light passes with an extra-fine diamond card.The secret, for me at least, is that I don't let them get dull. It seems easier to keep a blade sharp rather than try to sharpen a dull blade.

My moras are the easiest for me to sharpen. They have that Scandinavian grind. All I do with them is lay an extra-fine diamond card on the bevel and give it a few light strokes.

With my limited skills,  I can keep a sharp knife sharp  with an extra-fine diamond card and carbide sharpener (by using feather-light strokes). But if the knife gets dull, I''ll have a pro sharpen them.

[richs2891]

On the Lansky sharpener (i've got one as well, only 3 stones though and like it for saks) are you clamping the knife blade in the little indent at the front of the clamp ?
There is an OK link here that details how to use it http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?28377-Lansky-Sharpening-System&highlight=Lansky%20Sharpening%20System

and if you search on youtube there are a few vids to show how to use it.

Richard

[Styerman]

Two words , Spyderco Sharpmaker !

Chris

[alelser]

I have to agree with those touting the Spyderco Sharpmaker. The ONLY knife I have been unable to put a razor sharp edge to using a the Sharpmaker's standard coarse and fine stones was an older Buck 112. The reason for that was I have an older Sharpmaker with the fixed 15X15 degree angles and the Buck was ground at 20X20. I later picked up a set of Spyderco's diamond stones and just reprofiles the edge on the Buck to 15X15 and now it is sharp sharp sharp.

FWIW,, I have been collecting seriously for about 20 years; 10 years prior to that I "collected" what I was gifted as a kid, but prided myself on my ability to sharpen knives on an Arkansas dual-grit stone. I haven't touched that stone since I got my Sharpmaker.

-Al-

[Bladester]

I agree, Spyderco Shapemaker.  I've used these for many years and they are very simple to use.  I recently bought one for my son-in-law and the new ones even have an instructional video.

One other suggestion:  I prefer to sharpen frequently with a few strokes.  Much easier than trying to restore an edge on a dull knife.  The dull knife is much, much harder (i.e., takes longer to sharpen), particularly with some of the newer steels.  The diamond sleeves are very useful to restore an edge on really dull knives or if reprofiling the blade.  They used to come with the kit, but now they have to be purchased separately.

As further encouragement, there is nothing exotic about the SAK blade shape, so it is easy to sharpen.  Good one to learn on.  Good luck.

--Larry

[Styerman]

I'm a great believer in frequent light stroppings , especialy when whittling .

Chris

[Sparky415]

This might help some people 

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,23827.0.html

[gustophersmob]

WOW! Thanks for all the help everyone! 

I went ot gun show today and had my user Cadets sharpened by the guy there, but I left one dull spartan to practice on.  I'm going to try the burr technique described above using the Lansky in the holes marked "15" and see what results I can get.

Is 15 the right hole?  I've heard people say both 15 or 20 in the past...

I hope I can get better results this time.  If not, I guess I'll have to spend some more $ ( says the wife  ) to get either a Sharpmaker or some stones, undecided which to get yet. 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

WOW! Thanks for all the help everyone! 

I went ot gun show today and had my user Cadets sharpened by the guy there, but I left one dull spartan to practice on.  I'm going to try the burr technique described above using the Lansky in the holes marked "15" and see what results I can get.

Is 15 the right hole?  I've heard people say both 15 or 20 in the past...

I hope I can get better results this time.  If not, I guess I'll have to spend some more $ ( says the wife  ) to get either a Sharpmaker or some stones, undecided which to get yet. 

It's 15. Don't use a pull through sharpener as someone above described (i think, i may have read wrong). A heavier touch (a little heavier than the blade touching) is all that is needed as someone said. You don't need to bear down. But when you're knocking the burr off the last side, let the weight of the blade be the deciding factor. I sharpen freehand on stones, a sharpmaker and steel the kitchen knives if need be in the middle of cutting. Steeling is only used to realign an edge. I actually used to sharpen out of house as a side job, sharpened a few upper dollar knives ($500+). Trust me, use the 15 per side (30 inclusive) to get your edge, and if you want to polish the bevel (20 per side, or 40 inclusive), just use the fine stone. But start the edge with a medium grit (not diamond, too much stock removed, you'll hate yourself for it).  Your sharpening system will do you just fine, don't go buy other stuff. You need to learn with what you have, not what you can get. Those sharpening systems will do ya fine. Stropping is another method to keep your knives sharp, after you've applied a good edge. Just lookup on youtube how to strop a knife, it's for bringing the edge back, if it's not too far gone. I know you can do it! I sharpen ZDP-189, this stuff is lightweight.

[craigy]

just found this on youtube dont know if it is ok to post links on here if not mods please deleate.could it be worth getting somthing like this?

wicked edge sharpener.
http://www.youtube.com/user/clayallison1969?feature=pyv&ad=5468531054&kw=knives#p/u/0/mzL41ygQG0o

[AHB]

just found this on youtube dont know if it is ok to post links on here if not mods please deleate.could it be worth getting somthing like this?

wicked edge sharpener.
http://www.youtube.com/user/clayallison1969?feature=pyv&ad=5468531054&kw=knives#p/u/0/mzL41ygQG0o

Way too complex for me..  I would end up in more slices than a christmas duck..

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

My bad.... i meant to say 40 inclusive edge, 30 bevel. Bare with me, my mind has gone to a distant planet the past week, with all the rushing around i'm doing. My apologies. I was just rereading the thread and even confused myself on my post. All other information is correct, just switch the words bevel and edge and the post reads correctly. I've never had an issue sharpening to that degree, sometimes, depending on what i'm using the knife for, i'll make it even steeper like 22 per side, but nothing more. If you need help sharpening, just PM me. Like i said, try a medium grit for maybe 15 or 20 passes on both sides, and see if you get a burr. That will put you on the right track.

[Mike 56]

One thing to keep in mind when sharping a knife you are sharping from the edge to the back of the blade not from the point to the handle.

When you are done sharping with your Lanky sharpener your Smith ceramic sharpener works good for final sharpening. Using light pressure push the blade though from the point to the handle.

Mike

[gustophersmob]

My bad.... i meant to say 40 inclusive edge, 30 bevel. Bare with me, my mind has gone to a distant planet the past week, with all the rushing around i'm doing. My apologies. I was just rereading the thread and even confused myself on my post. All other information is correct, just switch the words bevel and edge and the post reads correctly. I've never had an issue sharpening to that degree, sometimes, depending on what i'm using the knife for, i'll make it even steeper like 22 per side, but nothing more. If you need help sharpening, just PM me. Like i said, try a medium grit for maybe 15 or 20 passes on both sides, and see if you get a burr. That will put you on the right track.

I think I'm confused now   

So, if I want to keep it simple without the bevel, should I continue to use the 20 hole like I have been?

One thing to keep in mind when sharping a knife you are sharping from the edge to the back of the blade not from the point to the handle.

When you are done sharping with your Lanky sharpener your Smith ceramic sharpener works good for final sharpening. Using light pressure push the blade though from the point to the handle.

Mike

Mike, do you know what angle the smith's is?  If it is a different angle than what I'm using on the Lansky, will that mess up the edge?

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

My bad.... i meant to say 40 inclusive edge, 30 bevel. Bare with me, my mind has gone to a distant planet the past week, with all the rushing around i'm doing. My apologies. I was just rereading the thread and even confused myself on my post. All other information is correct, just switch the words bevel and edge and the post reads correctly. I've never had an issue sharpening to that degree, sometimes, depending on what i'm using the knife for, i'll make it even steeper like 22 per side, but nothing more. If you need help sharpening, just PM me. Like i said, try a medium grit for maybe 15 or 20 passes on both sides, and see if you get a burr. That will put you on the right track.

I think I'm confused now   

So, if I want to keep it simple without the bevel, should I continue to use the 20 hole like I have been?

One thing to keep in mind when sharping a knife you are sharping from the edge to the back of the blade not from the point to the handle.

When you are done sharping with your Lanky sharpener your Smith ceramic sharpener works good for final sharpening. Using light pressure push the blade though from the point to the handle.

Mike

Mike, do you know what angle the smith's is?  If it is a different angle than what I'm using on the Lansky, will that mess up the edge?

Yes, are you positive you're using a 20* hole? I've had no issue with my SAKs on 20 degrees whatsoever. Use the coarse stone and like i said, do 20 passes each side and feel for a burr. You should feel a burr.

[gustophersmob]

My bad.... i meant to say 40 inclusive edge, 30 bevel. Bare with me, my mind has gone to a distant planet the past week, with all the rushing around i'm doing. My apologies. I was just rereading the thread and even confused myself on my post. All other information is correct, just switch the words bevel and edge and the post reads correctly. I've never had an issue sharpening to that degree, sometimes, depending on what i'm using the knife for, i'll make it even steeper like 22 per side, but nothing more. If you need help sharpening, just PM me. Like i said, try a medium grit for maybe 15 or 20 passes on both sides, and see if you get a burr. That will put you on the right track.

Yeah, I'm sure I was using the 20.  But I didn't know anythign about a burr.  Plus I didn't do that many passes either.

I will try again tomorrow night on my Spartan and see what I can do.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate very much   

I think I'm confused now   

So, if I want to keep it simple without the bevel, should I continue to use the 20 hole like I have been?

One thing to keep in mind when sharping a knife you are sharping from the edge to the back of the blade not from the point to the handle.

When you are done sharping with your Lanky sharpener your Smith ceramic sharpener works good for final sharpening. Using light pressure push the blade though from the point to the handle.

Mike

Mike, do you know what angle the smith's is?  If it is a different angle than what I'm using on the Lansky, will that mess up the edge?

Yes, are you positive you're using a 20* hole? I've had no issue with my SAKs on 20 degrees whatsoever. Use the coarse stone and like i said, do 20 passes each side and feel for a burr. You should feel a burr.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Yes. You

My bad.... i meant to say 40 inclusive edge, 30 bevel. Bare with me, my mind has gone to a distant planet the past week, with all the rushing around i'm doing. My apologies. I was just rereading the thread and even confused myself on my post. All other information is correct, just switch the words bevel and edge and the post reads correctly. I've never had an issue sharpening to that degree, sometimes, depending on what i'm using the knife for, i'll make it even steeper like 22 per side, but nothing more. If you need help sharpening, just PM me. Like i said, try a medium grit for maybe 15 or 20 passes on both sides, and see if you get a burr. That will put you on the right track.

Yeah, I'm sure I was using the 20.  But I didn't know anythign about a burr.  Plus I didn't do that many passes either.

I will try again tomorrow night on my Spartan and see what I can do.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate very much   

I think I'm confused now   

So, if I want to keep it simple without the bevel, should I continue to use the 20 hole like I have been?

One thing to keep in mind when sharping a knife you are sharping from the edge to the back of the blade not from the point to the handle.

When you are done sharping with your Lanky sharpener your Smith ceramic sharpener works good for final sharpening. Using light pressure push the blade though from the point to the handle.

Mike

Mike, do you know what angle the smith's is?  If it is a different angle than what I'm using on the Lansky, will that mess up the edge?

Yes, are you positive you're using a 20* hole? I've had no issue with my SAKs on 20 degrees whatsoever. Use the coarse stone and like i said, do 20 passes each side and feel for a burr. You should feel a burr.

Yes. Use the 20. The bevel will always be there. Knocking the shoulder off as someone said is taking the primary bevel down to a thinner angle. Which would make it less resistant when cutting, but less bevel means less strength behind your edge unless you convex your edge. But lets not get into that. 20 should work, work the edge until you get a burr. Reread what i wrote about detecting a burr. You should be fine, reread what ive said  good luck, report back!

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Well, how did it go?

[gustophersmob]

Well, how did it go?

Sorry, somehow I missed your post 

Unfortunately, I have been too busy between work and holidays to sit down and do it yet.  I will definitely post back when I give it a go.

[New_World]

good luck sharpening gust!