Hot off the press: PocketToolX Wrex

[Nikos]

Titanium adjustable pocket wrench: clicky

[zepla]

Looks cool. If it works 

[J-sews]

Neat! And a little razor knife on the back of the wrench jaw.

[scrappy]

That price is ridiculous

[AimlessWanderer]

That price is ridiculous

Oh good - not just me that thought that then

[Mr. Whippy]

CRKT Guppies are around $25...

Craftsman 4 inch adjustable wrench, $8-10

Mini pipe wrench at TSC (Tractor Supply) $5-10, depending on size AND it doubles as a hammer

Wrex: $1 MEELLION Dollars! ( ok, $178)

[edcgear]

+1 on price.... 

[Strumento]

and it is "only 50% heavier than a Piranha"...

[ryan1835]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

[Nikos]

[Mr. Whippy]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

Well, there's a couple points here:

1.  PocketTools X are mass produced (small mass to be sure) vs Atwood is a one man shop

2.  Speaking for ME: Any Atwood over $90 better be a work of art in some fashion.  Just having a sharp edge isn't good enough for me to fork over a Benjamin or more.  I have passed on a couple sales/SUS when the price was over this arbitrary boundry.

3.  The Wrex doesn't seem esthetically "beautiful" to me and is more a form follows function, blobby multi-piece, "one piece" tool

4.  There appears to be a lot of extra real estate on the handle of essentially a King Dick wrench with blade holder.

But that's just my opinion.

[ryan1835]

 

looking at it closer im wondering if they've tried undoing any nuts with it my stubby spanner set have more leverage

[David]

But it`s titanium. Ya gotta pay for  .       

[SlackOne]

Titanium tax.  Be glad Steve Jobs had nothing to do with it.

[MultiMat]

Clever doodad but the cost is the equivalent to at least 3 full sized MT's for me .
A bit TOO pricey for me. 
Cool n Clever for sure though.

[chris777]

quite interesting but overpriced.

[Gareth]

Cool, but as Nate pointed out it's hardly the only pocket sized adjustable spanner.

[scrappy]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

I think atwoods are over priced but I may be in the minority

[scrappy]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

I think atwoods are over priced but I may be in the minority

[AimlessWanderer]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

I think atwoods are over priced but I may be in the minority

Well, if you're in the minority then so am I

[Mr. Whippy]

you wouldn't knock the price if it was an atwood

I think atwoods are over priced but I may be in the minority

Well, if you're in the minority then so am I

I can understand that sentiment.  Atwoods are one piece, no moving parts and are basically wrenches with prytips and occasionally a blade. There are much cheaper alternatives out there.

Same can be said about Leathermans (eg Lowes $15 MT) and SAK's.  Heck, there's no logical reason to ever buy a Crunch.  The small ViseGrips are stronger, WAY cheaper and quicker to use. Pair it with a knockoff SAKoid and you have more functionality for a fraction of the cost.

Same can be said about high end knives.


What do Atwoods bring to the table then?  A few things:

1.  They are handcrafted.  Peter works each piece himself.  I doubt Tim ever did that in Portland.  This sort of craftsmanship is an expensive way to manufacture--anything.

2.  Esthetics.  Peter will freely tell you, these are not just tools.  That's why popular designs disappear despite demand. Heck, my wife and daughter each wear a Bermuda triangle as jewelry and have received loads of complements, often from people who never realized they were tools.  My wife wears a blue whistle at times as well.

3.  Functionality.  These pieces work well.

4.  Materials.  Peter picks what he wants, not what he can source at a discount

5. Scarcity.  He makes a certain amount, then sells them on his site.  If you're lucky enough to hit the sales, the prices are steep but only a fraction of what they go for in the aftermarket just a few days later.

If I were outfitting a workcrew would I issue Atwoods? Nope.  But then I wouldn't issue Leathermans or SAKs either. 

[AimlessWanderer]

What do Atwoods bring to the table then?  A few things:

1.  They are handcrafted.  Peter works each piece himself.  I doubt Tim ever did that in Portland.  This sort of craftsmanship is an expensive way to manufacture--anything.

2.  Esthetics.  Peter will freely tell you, these are not just tools.  That's why popular designs disappear despite demand. Heck, my wife and daughter each wear a Bermuda triangle as jewelry and have received loads of complements, often from people who never realized they were tools.  My wife wears a blue whistle at times as well.

3.  Functionality.  These pieces work well.

4.  Materials.  Peter picks what he wants, not what he can source at a discount

5. Scarcity.  He makes a certain amount, then sells them on his site.  If you're lucky enough to hit the sales, the prices are steep but only a fraction of what they go for in the aftermarket just a few days later.

If I were outfitting a workcrew would I issue Atwoods? Nope.  But then I wouldn't issue Leathermans or SAKs either. 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking the tools in respect of design, care of manufacture, or quality, but theres some very clever market strategies in play here too.

For me personally, they don't have much appeal .. but I can (kind of) see why others are so attracted to them. However - as you pointed out as your 5th point, it's the market forces that are being carefully worked to keep those prices up - not just from the guy himself, but on the second hand market too.

If you took the clever market strategies away which artificially elevate the price (ensuring production i.e supply is always less than anticipated demand) the prices would obviously be less sustainable. These strategies mean the producer has a healthy return on his work, and the scarcity increases the appeal to SOME customers - but for many just looking at them purely as tools to do a job (quality etc aside) they become overpriced. As I said, these aren't my thing - but I think I'm right in saying that there are other producers of one piece tools whose quality etc is high, but at a much more accessible price for many potential users?

I don't think it's fair using LM vs a cheapo knockoff as an analogy, more like using limited run alox against more popular SAK models. Atwoods cater more to the dedicated collector than to the standard tool user, and limited run alox items are overpriced as TOOLS. There will always be those who are prepared to pay a premium for exclusivity/collectability, but many who just want a reliable well made tool to do a job won't go to those prices.

just my £0.02

[Mr. Whippy]

To be fair, Peter doesn't really benefit from the aftermarket.  He makes a given number of tools and sells them for a set price--no auction, therefore he knows what he is going to make by selling the production run.  Lets say he makes 200 prybabies and sells them for $60 each.  That's a total of $12,000 gross.  The materials cost him something.  More than Leatherman pays for the same materials, since Peter buys in tiny lots.  Then there's the cost of heat treat (he sends that work out).  I don't know what that all amounts to, but I doubt raw materials, energy and outsourced work is less than $10 per piece and is probably closer to $15 or $20.  That leaves a profit of $40-45 per piece, for his work--which I assume is a minimum of 1/2 hour work per piece (most likely an hour or more in reality). 

So he's getting paid somewhere between $40-90/hr for his labor.  Not all that out of line of many other craftsman. (and don't forget, he gets no "benefits" with that income)

[Strumento]

not to mention those pieces that never make it out of Atwood workshop...(he only deliver perfect tools)!

[AimlessWanderer]

Yeah, sure - all fair points mate.

I'm not saying Peter is overpriced, and if he didn't play the "limited availability" game he'd wouldn't get that return. When you factor in his overheads/tooling etc the cash in his pocket will be far less still, and being in manufacturing myself I know the difficulties in ensuring margins are achieved and the benefits of "speSmurfpillsing" and not exceeding demand. Good luck to the guy as far as I'm concerned - he's found a niche market, he's carefully avoiding saturating that market, and managing to keep his clients hungry for more and more of the same. Craftsmanship aside - that's shrewd business as far as I'm concerned ... and his customers are happy too.

What I'm trying to get at is that as "collectable items", whether first hand or second hand, they have a different worth than purely as a "tool". Value is in the eye of the beholder, and those seeking a limited edition hand crafted little nugget of shiny goodness which by the way also has some functional uses will pay much much more than someone who JUST wants a good quality multipurpose hardworking doofer that won't snerp up at the corners, crack twist or otherwise fail on the first, second or tenth use.

I think those who DON'T think Atwoods are overpriced see a value in them beyond their worth simply as a tool, whilst those who DO think they're "overpriced" (such as me) don't/can't recognise/appreciate that "other" value.

You said it yourself ...

2.  Esthetics.  Peter will freely tell you, these are not just tools. 

.... but to some people ... they are ... and that's taking nothing away from Peter, his products OR the people who value them differently

[Mr. Whippy]

Well, I think you're attributing something to Peter that he does not.  He is not trying to compete with other toolmakers for mass appeal and competitive pricing-- he is an artist who explores functional art.

From his site:

My philosophy is if you aren't carrying it then it isn't going to be there when you need it. Hence the obsession with small tools that pack a big punch. Let's face it, they are the ones that are more likely to be in your pocket or on your keys rather than languishing behind the seat in the truck or stuck in your toolbox in the garage.

I've always been attracted to small precious things. To me a good tool is one that you want to fondle and play with, as well as use. My hope is that others will find my creations as useful and as interesting as I do myself. I want to make objects that will endure, and nothing would make me happier than for my tools and knives to be traded for hundreds of years to come!

Somewhere along the way I got the idea that a person's personal effects, the ones that they carry every day, kind of show you something about themselves.

*emphasis added.

Since he is trying to make a living at this pursuit, he prices things to where he makes the income he desires.  That the aftermarket goes wacko is not a function of a marketing scheme, but rather a recognition that others value his artistic touch.  Since he has no desire to mass market, he makes what he feels he can with the attention he wants to pay to each tool.  That demand far outstrips supply isn't really his concern. 

One could make the same claim of shrewd marketing of painters, photographers and sculptors.  Could he sell his patterns to someone and have them cranked out in mass production fashion?  Yes, but then he's lost direct control of the individual object.  It's a difference in perspective really.

And honestly, the Lowes cheap MT does the work just as well as the Leatherman it emulates, with a similar warranty at a fraction of the cost, but it lacks a certain finesse. 

And finally, anyone on this site can't realistically claim that they only have MT's and SAKs for functional use.  There are too many "How many SAKs do you EDC", "Where can I get the blue one" and "What do you have on the Way" threads and posts to argue otherwise.

I guess it comes down to what is the price point you're willing to pay per tool when the tool isn't technically a necessity.

[Strumento]

I think I know why its make of Titanium and they called it Wrex
--->T-wRex
 

[Mr. Whippy]

I think I know why its make of Titanium and they called it Wrex
--->T-wRex
 

[AimlessWanderer]

Well, I think you're attributing something to Peter that he does not.  He is not trying to compete with other toolmakers for mass appeal and competitive pricing-- he is an artist who explores functional art.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me there. Some people do recognise the "artwork" and value it far higher that the artist himself takes for producing it - as we've seen - but others just see a tool and fail completely to see the artwork ... but doesn't that kind of appreciation apply to all types of art? It doesn't mean anyone's wrong if someone feels an oil on canvas is worth £500,000.00 while someone else thinks "Pah - for a mucky bedsheet?". They just value the same thing differently

And finally, anyone on this site can't realistically claim that they only have MT's and SAKs for functional use.  There are too many "How many SAKs do you EDC", "Where can I get the blue one" and "What do you have on the Way" threads and posts to argue otherwise.

I dunno on that. I'm awaiting a special edition 2010 Swisstool Spirit RT. I've not bought this as an investment or collectors item, but as a working tool to use throughout my life until one of us (the tool or me) falls apart and is unable to do the job. The value of this tool WILL depreciate as far as I'm concerned but that's what it was bought for - using. Yeah, I've got other tools (which also get used) and I can only really use one tool for each job unless I go and do it again just for the sake of it, but they're still users and JUST TOOLS as far as I personally am concerned. Nice tools, ergonomic, good value, hard working, reliable, easy to carry, versatile ... whatever their positive attributes may be ... but for ME they're still just tools. I also reserve the right if I see a better (for me) tool in the future to take the plunge and buy that too 

Had this Spirit RT have been £200.00 though, then I personally would have felt this is overpriced, and not worth £200.00 of MY money. However, someone else might see that as an investment and in their own mind put a higher value on it.

I guess it comes down to what is the price point you're willing to pay per tool when the tool isn't technically a necessity.

... or even if it is a necessity ...

One man's rip-off is another man's bargain

I think I know why its make of Titanium and they called it Wrex
--->T-wRex
 

Going back to this tool ... I think it's overpriced 

 

[Mr. Whippy]

I dunno on that. I'm awaiting a special edition 2010 Swisstool Spirit RT. I've not bought this as an investment or collectors item, but as a working tool to use throughout my life until one of us (the tool or me) falls apart and is unable to do the job. The value of this tool WILL depreciate as far as I'm concerned but that's what it was bought for - using. Yeah, I've got other tools (which also get used) and I can only really use one tool for each job unless I go and do it again just for the sake of it, but they're still users and JUST TOOLS as far as I personally am concerned. Nice tools, ergonomic, good value, hard working, reliable, easy to carry, versatile ... whatever their positive attributes may be ... but for ME they're still just tools. I also reserve the right if I see a better (for me) tool in the future to take the plunge and buy that too 

If you paid even 1GBP more for the special edition, I would say you were placing value on esthetics that don't play any role in function (handle material is the only real difference correct?).  To say that exclusivity of the tool didn't play a significant role in the purchase rings hollow...

But it's ok, you're among the like minded.