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Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners 9316

Full Member Posts: 181
Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« on: November 29, 2012, 02:14:37 AM »
I’ve been on a mission to scan and digitize as many 91mm SAK liners as possible.  Whenever I disassemble a knife, I scan each different liner before reassembly.  My ultimate goal is to use the drawings to produce liners out of higher-quality materials (brass, titanium, stainless steel) through a process like laser or waterjet cutting. 

Recently, Syph007 helped out by graciously providing me with a full set of SwissChamp liners and I’ve found a few others on my own.  The image at the end of this post shows all the ones I’ve digitized so far.  I’ve given them all names to help me distinguish between them (I’m not pretending that the names are official or anything like that, so if somebody knows the official names please let me know).  The image is a scan of an AutoCAD drawing so the liners won’t appear full-size if you print them out.  The original AutoCAD print is in fact full-size.

Here are the liners and their positions:
Pliers: Located on both sides of the Plier tool on all of the knives I’ve checked, so two in the SwissChamp.
Canoe: Between the Blade layer and the Metal File/Saw.
Cutout: On the outside of the Blade layer in virtually every, maybe every, 91mm SAK.
Full: On the outside of the Opener layer.
Spartan/Tinker Center: The name says it all. Note that this liner has a notch for the awl nail nick, but several other knives with the awl are missing this notch in the liner that's located next to the awl. Not present on the SwissChamp.
Saw #1: Between the Metal File/Saw and the Wood Saw on the SwissChamp.  Also appears next to the Saw Layer on other knives like the Camper/Hiker.
Saw #2: Not on the SwissChamp.  Appears between the Wood Saw and Openers on the Camper/Hiker.
Mag Glass/Inline Phillips: Present twice on the Swiss Champ (1) between the Scissors and Fish Scaler and (2) between the Mag Glass/Inline Phillips and Openers. 

Interestingly, there is no liner between the Fish Scaler and Wood Saw, so the Swiss Champ has only eight total liners instead of the nine that would be expected in an eight layer knife.

I’m guessing that there may be even more out there.  So, I’m asking if anybody knows of any different liners that are used in 91mm knives?  And if I’ve made any errors in my analysis, please let me know.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 04:45:47 AM by WoodMan »
No Life Club Posts: 2,143
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 02:57:36 AM »


CT liners and lite liners. These are from an XLT lite.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:59:16 AM by GigaHz »
Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 04:42:16 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

CT liners and lite liners. These are from an XLT lite.

There are two here that I haven't seen before (never broke down a Cybertool or an XLT Lite, have a Spartan Lite that I'm going to have to check out now): the pair at positions #7 and #8 from the left and the pair at #10 and #11.  Does anybody know if these are peculiar to the Cybertool series or are they present in other knives?  Does anybody have any spares that they would be willing to send me? I can send a SASE and would be willing to return them when I'm through.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 04:52:52 AM by WoodMan »
No Life Club Posts: 2,143
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 12:25:48 PM »
7 and 8 are for a Cybertool. 10 and 11 are for a Lite with a mag glass. I might be able to get the CT liners.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 12:41:09 PM by GigaHz »
Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 12:35:19 AM »
I checked out my Spartan Lite (without disassembling it) and #10 and #11 seem to be there also.  Interestingly, the Spartan Lite has a pair of liners on each side of the central Lite/Inline Phillips layer.  This means it takes six liners to build a Spartan Lite instead of the normal four that a 3 layer knife has.  Apparently, the Lite/Inline Phillips liner can't be placed alongside the Blade and Opener layers without operational problems.

BTW, if you can get the Cybertool liners, I'd love to borrow them for scanning.
No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 07:58:16 AM »
Anyone have any other Autocad drawings of Vic and Wenger parts?

I am looking for 91mm scales and 85mm scales in particular to fab up some CF scales (with holes prefabbed).  The full and cutout drawings in the first post seem to be perfect for this as long as they are on spec.  The dwg/dxf would be perfect. 

This is Phase 2 after the the Phase 1 pivot experiment, which is currently in production.

Cheers
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 09:13:20 AM by papercut »

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Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 03:48:46 AM »
I've scanned and digitized 91mm regular and plus scales.  The files are AutoCAD .dwg and can easily be converted to .dxf.  The outlines are splines, not arcs and lines, which apparently won't work with some tool path software.  They work fine with my laser engraver.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 03:52:31 AM by WoodMan »
Hero Member Posts: 828 Rite of )+( Passage
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 08:49:29 AM »
I will love to have those files to make my own designs and get them 3D printed :drool:

No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 09:11:56 AM »
I will love to have those files to make my own designs and get them 3D printed :drool:

+1  I wanted to scan 91mm scales and build up some 3D models suitable for 3D printing but the FARO Arm and Laser Stripe head I used in my previous position is not available to me any more. :(


No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 10:35:53 AM »
How did you scan them?

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Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 02:26:19 PM »
+1 for the scales scan request.

I'm joining a Fablab, and they would help greatly my ++ scale idea.
No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 03:12:43 PM »
+B posted a 93mm alox drawing from Ibach. I assume it is in scale, but it would need to be checked



http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/751483-victorinox-swissbianco-black-farmer-sak

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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,740 SAK Surgeon
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 03:41:01 PM »
I've scanned and digitized 91mm regular and plus scales.  The files are AutoCAD .dwg and can easily be converted to .dxf.  The outlines are splines, not arcs and lines, which apparently won't work with some tool path software.  They work fine with my laser engraver.

Yep most of the shops Ive sent DXFs for quotes want it in arcs.  Took me awhile to figure out what they meant and how to do it (still new at this), but one of the applications I have had an option to convert splines to arcs. 

PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
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No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2013, 08:41:59 PM »
+B posted a 93mm alox drawing from Ibach. I assume it is in scale, but it would need to be checked

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/751483-victorinox-swissbianco-black-farmer-sak

Speaking from a technical point, that's an Illustration, not a Drawing. It's not even in a vector format, let alone being a CAD 3D model.
(Not flaming you here, please don't think that. But my secret identity is a mild-mannered Technical Illustrator and part time CAD-monkey.)

What we're after here is something more like this...
http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?modelcode=5234


which is about the best I've found online, appears to be pretty accurate but it doesn't look like he(?) has modeled the inside detail of the scales.

I'm going to download the model in a few different formats and see if I can pull it apart, check if it's dimensionally correct and add the bushing holes etc to the inside surface of the scales.

Might give us something to work with.

No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2013, 08:53:54 PM »
Well, so much for that idea... 

"You're using a free account. To download non-free 3D models, please purchase a non-free account or upload 3D models into catalog."

Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 12:09:21 AM »
How did you scan them?

I scan the liners and scales from disassembled knives on my HP multifunction printer at 1200 dpi.  Then I read the .jpegs produced by the scans into AutoCAD (just a copy and paste). The holes in the liners are a known 2.5mm diameter for the outer holes and 2.2mm for the inner holes so I draw circles at those sizes and lay them on top of the holes in the image of the liner.  I zoom in as much as possible to get the most accurate placement.  Then a draw a polyline on the edge of the outline of the image to get the outer shape.  Works perfectly.
Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 12:16:27 AM »
I've scanned and digitized 91mm regular and plus scales.  The files are AutoCAD .dwg and can easily be converted to .dxf.  The outlines are splines, not arcs and lines, which apparently won't work with some tool path software.  They work fine with my laser engraver.

Yep most of the shops Ive sent DXFs for quotes want it in arcs.  Took me awhile to figure out what they meant and how to do it (still new at this), but one of the applications I have had an option to convert splines to arcs.

I'm interested in how you're converting splines to arcs.  Can you share exactly how you do this?
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,740 SAK Surgeon
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2013, 12:25:33 AM »
I've scanned and digitized 91mm regular and plus scales.  The files are AutoCAD .dwg and can easily be converted to .dxf.  The outlines are splines, not arcs and lines, which apparently won't work with some tool path software.  They work fine with my laser engraver.

Yep most of the shops Ive sent DXFs for quotes want it in arcs.  Took me awhile to figure out what they meant and how to do it (still new at this), but one of the applications I have had an option to convert splines to arcs.

I'm interested in how you're converting splines to arcs.  Can you share exactly how you do this?

I dont have any proper CAD software, there must be a way to do it in that?  What I was using was called aspire (my buddy who CNCs wood projects got me into using it).  And if you select a vector there is an operation called "fit curves to selected vectors" that will convert all the splines to arcs. 

Edit: I googled autocad and convert splines to arcs.  Dont know what this means though.   :think:

set        Plineconvertmode = 1
Splinedit                  Splines to polylines
Explode                   them to arcs.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 12:29:48 AM by Syph007 »

PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
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Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2013, 01:09:44 AM »
Going to try that when I get back to my desktop computer next week.


No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 02:06:03 AM »
+B posted a 93mm alox drawing from Ibach. I assume it is in scale, but it would need to be checked

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/751483-victorinox-swissbianco-black-farmer-sak


Speaking from a technical point, that's an Illustration, not a Drawing. It's not even in a vector format, let alone being a CAD 3D model.
(Not flaming you here, please don't think that. But my secret identity is a mild-mannered Technical Illustrator and part time CAD-monkey.)

What we're after here is something more like this...
http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?modelcode=5234
(Image removed from quote.)

which is about the best I've found online, appears to be pretty accurate but it doesn't look like he(?) has modeled the inside detail of the scales.

I'm going to download the model in a few different formats and see if I can pull it apart, check if it's dimensionally correct and add the bushing holes etc to the inside surface of the scales.

Might give us something to work with.

Yeah, I know it is a raster image, but it is from a vector file originally, so it could be in the correct proportions (but may be distorted).

Too bad they make you pay for be 3D image. I saw that too, it seems like it would have been helpful.   It looks like a share/share site. Do you have anything to upload as trade?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 02:08:01 AM by papercut »

Lurking with a large collection of sharp knives!
No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 03:39:23 AM »
nothing that wouldn't get me in hot water with my employer or ASIO

No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2013, 04:43:19 AM »
When I talk about scanning. I mean like this.  With a Laser Stripe head on a "FARO Arm" portable CMM (coordinate measuring machine).



you end up (after processing the point cloud) with a 3D CAD model accurate to within a few hundredths of a mm.


Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2013, 06:48:07 AM »
A bit excessive for this application, don't you think?
No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 06:49:09 AM »
Pretty BA though!

Lurking with a large collection of sharp knives!
No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2013, 07:49:23 AM »
A bit excessive for this application, don't you think?

Not at all. Well. no more than using a Damascas Pioneer to cut up your apple at lunch.

The fact is that if I still had access to $80,000 worth of someone else's precision measuring equipment why not use it.
I'm still trying to set that up. I'm going back to that worksite in a week or two and may manage to get a couple of hours with the gear.

and the laser striper is cheap compared to the Leica Laser Tracker.

example image


the model we have was $1/4 million worth when it was bought new and over $400K with all the support equipment.
But that bad boy can measure within 1/10th of a thou up to 80ft away.

No Life Club Posts: 1,240
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »
If you can please also measure some Wenger scales and liner (for the holes).

That would be sweet!

Lurking with a large collection of sharp knives!
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,740 SAK Surgeon
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2013, 02:59:45 PM »
Mmmm laser scanner! 

I can see how that would be awesome for 3D models.  The simple 2D stuff I make up for files I can muddle through ok on my own though.  :D

PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
Facebook : SAKModder
Instagram : robertjlessard
Youtube : www.youtube.com/robertjlessard
No Life Club Posts: 4,722 I'm an Adult?!?! When did that happen?
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2013, 08:58:38 PM »
If you can please also measure some Wenger scales and liner (for the holes).

That would be sweet!

Can't promise anything but if I can get my hands on the gear I'll scan whatever I can get my hands on.
It's the setting up that tales the time. Scanning a small item like a ASK scale would take 2min tops.

Full Member Posts: 181
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 12:24:06 AM »
I'm still working on producing SAK liners in brass.  Recently, I made a set of brass liners for a Deluxe Climber detailed in this thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,42530.0.html.  A few other members have shown interest in brass liners and I'm still planning to produce some in quantity.  Along those lines, I went back and re-read this thread and discovered, to my dismay, that some of the information I originally posted was incorrect.  For example, I stated that knives with the Pliers tool have two pliers liners.  In fact, the Mechanic (perhaps the best known knife with Pliers) has only one pliers liner.  There are several other errors as well.  Please forgive my newbie exuberence. 

By way of correcting my errors, I created a spreadsheet (attached below) detailing the liner requirement to build up some common knives.  These encompass the 91mm knives that I have.  There are a few notable omissions, like the Fieldmaster/Huntsman, but I'm guessing that those knives use the same eight liners.  Also, the Cybertool and Lite series have some liners that are peculiar to those models and I haven't broken down mine to scan the liners. 

I've given some of the liners names to help differentiate between them but I'm not pretending they're official or anything like that.  I've also attached a scan of the eight most common liners.
Hero Member Posts: 694 Happiness depends upon ourselves. Aristotle
Re: Digitizing 91mm SAK Liners
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 01:02:06 AM »
Interesting topic, i would like to seeing the results from the scanning.



 

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