84/5 Wenger innards, 84 Vic alox scales. Possible?

papercut · **on:** December 10, 2012, 01:32:42 AM

Hello again,

I am batting around an idea with Steve- adding 84 mm alox scales to 84/5 Wenger innards to make a more variable 84/5 mm alox knife. This is not adding Wenger scissors to a Vic chasis, but Vic cover on a Wenger chasis. Could this work? Anyone try something similar?

I read that somewhere that the outer pins on 84/5 Vics and Wengers are aligned, but the center pin is offset. The theory is that by boring out the outer holes in the alox scales and drilling out a new center hole this could work. Of course then one would have an extra hole on the alox scales :p Plus the Wenger parts are 1mm longer?

Steve doesnt think this will work, so before a I sacrifice a shiny new alox cadet and a few Wengers, I am curious if anyone has any insight on this idea.

What about using Patriot scales?

Cheers

PTRSAK · **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2012, 12:12:34 PM

I have a stack of 84mm Vic' liners sitting around from the recruits I've pulled apart, also have a couple of Wengers in bits, I might try to mock something up and see how it looks.
Might take a few days, I'm not at home for a couple of nights.

papercut · **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2012, 04:51:38 PM

Awesome! Curious minds are awaiting! Btw, feel like parting with a set or two of 84mm alox scales?

PTRSAK · **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2012, 03:47:02 AM

I don't have any Alox scales "spare", one set is wrapped around my red Cadet and the other pair are still in the mail (a Bantam).

The various scales I am making for the recruits (same pin pattern) are all hand made with several hours work in each set. The Titaniun ones have several hours just polishing them.

Even at minimum wage it would be cheaper to buy a brand new cadet.

But I'm happy to share the knowledge for free. Just a matter of finding time to try mashing the parts together.

papercut · **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2012, 04:39:53 PM

Thank you for sharing the knowledge. It is very inspiring! Any news on how things fit with the liners?

I misread stack of liners for stack of scales earlier :p

papercut · **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2012, 08:34:58 AM

Any new insight onto this? I have now acquired a wenger forester (saw, scissors) , apprentice (smooth backsprings and maybe newer tools), and a shiny new cadet for the scales. As three Saks will be sacrificed to create the uber 85mm, it would be nice to have an indication of the feasibility of the concept before the surgery is to start.

Also, I have a secret project cooking up with Steve- another three SAK 84/85 mod. Along with the climber scissors to farmer mod, that could be 8 saks murdered to create 3 monsters.

Cheers

crackout · **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2012, 09:25:40 AM

If you don't need the liner of the Cadet, can I have it?

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2012, 10:02:06 PM

Quote from: papercut on December 17, 2012, 08:34:58 AM

Any new insight onto this? I have now acquired a wenger forester (saw, scissors) , apprentice (smooth backsprings and maybe newer tools), and a shiny new cadet for the scales. As three Saks will be sacrificed to create the uber 85mm, it would be nice to have an indication of the feasibility of the concept before the surgery is to start.

Also, I have a secret project cooking up with Steve- another three SAK 84/85 mod. Along with the climber scissors to farmer mod, that could be 8 saks murdered to create 3 monsters.

Cheers

Shhhhh

Thats supposed to be a secret

papercut · **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2012, 12:28:48 AM

Lol! I am on double secret suspension! I guess my 84mm pink alox swiss champ/cyber 41 with led dreams are over...

PTRSAK · **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:12:03 AM

So far it looks like the main problem is the "middle" pins. they are not close enough to line up and too close to run extra pins.

It may be possible to fit Wenger scissors using a Vic backspring, but 84mm scissor springs are like unicorn smurf. Almost unobtanium. Maybe a main blade spring if it's wide enough and a full width spacer/rest at the other end.

Would the vic spring have the right shape to drive the Wenger scissors? maybe two skinny springs side by side, similar to how the Esquire scissors work, one half is the opening spring and the other drives the scissors open...

I need to build a test rig, but with Xmas looming I'm just so time poor... haven't even had time to take the new TRex 500pro out for a fly and I've had it over a month!!

PTRSAK · **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:27:08 AM

and... the answer is YES, you can fit Wenger scissors into a 84mm Vic. AND it's not all that hard to do, AND they look like they are meant to be there.

edit. Just re-read this thread from the beginning and now realise this isn't what you were trying to do (all I remembered was something about Wenger parts and Vic scales)... but HEY! It's still pretty cool.

anyway... I took a Tinker Small and made it into a Mini Super Tinker.

Parts used were... Wenger Scissors from a Traveler, Blade layer spring from a Vic Tourist (or any 84mm Vic, The opener layer spring isn't thick enough.), Awl from the Tourist (if you use a Recruit Spring you won't need this) and a 91mm Can Opener or Cap Lifter.

Ok, you probably want to see pics before I explain.
These are just quick&dirty pics of a quick&dirty prototype, so please excuse the crudity of the work and photography.

It's simplicity itself. I just put the scissors on the small blade end of the spring and the 91mm can opener on the large blade end, this stays in the open position and provides spring tension and a rest for the closed scissors. I cut the end off the can opener with my Dremel and ground it to blend in with the profile of the liners.

Using a backtool spring I had to drop the awl in there to make the spring work, but seeing this is the spring that usually has a corkscrew there is no nub to hold the awl up so it drops down flush and you hardly even notice it. Of course with a recruit spring this won't be an issue.

The layer assembled with no more hassle than any other. The scissors have the best snap on the knife.

The spring drives the scissors perfectly and when closed they sit at just the right height.

Some closed pics with a 91mm Super Tinker for comparison.

lowtech · **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:37:52 AM

Oh dear, i can see a lot of poor little Wengers murdered for their Scissors...

Nice work on the Small Super tinker.

PTRSAK · **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2012, 10:57:08 AM

Quote from: lowtech on December 18, 2012, 10:37:52 AM

Oh dear, i can see a lot of poor little Wengers murdered for their Scissors...

I probably just drove the price of ebay Wengers up a few points...

Quote from: lowtech on December 18, 2012, 10:37:52 AM

Nice work on the Small Super tinker.

Thanks, When it gets pulled apart again and done with a little more care and a little less haste I will post some better pictures.

crackout · **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:00:30 PM

Can you provide pics of the backside?

I see issues with the thickness of the can opener compared to the scissors or the spring thickness.
Can opener: 2.0mm
Blade spring: 2.5mm
Scissors: 2.5mm

Did you use a washer?

PTRSAK · **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2012, 01:36:10 PM

interesting, if I measure it, what you say is right... but it seems to fit.

Well, plan A was to use the Tang of a main blade anyway. I have a few of them that have been sharpened to death so will run with that in the "production build".

Please excuse the phone-camera pics.

papercut · **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2012, 06:49:35 PM

If Syph hadn't locked up modder of the year already, you would be in the running! You are for sure the modder of the month! You solved the 84mm scissors problem very elegantly!

Bravo and Cheers!

Syph007 · **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2012, 06:57:30 PM

I love it! Great job!

I've always wondered but never tried. For me getting ahold of wenger parts has always been harder and more expensive then Vic parts so I've never fiddled much with them. Good to know its a nice fit though! For those that prefer wenger scissors to vic ones it's a double win.

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:39:30 PM

Very nice to see that. I've used that can opener trick on 93's before and it's nice to see it works on 84/85 too

. I guess I have my work cut out for me. Although the tools,ie, Phillips driver won't work on a standard Vic spring, for my 84 explorer minus, it should work with a "few" adjustments. Hehe.

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2012, 01:03:11 AM

Did someone say unicorn poo?

I have some (not for sale) and some unicorn urine (I guess) (saw) as well

PTRSAK · **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2012, 02:45:01 AM

Just had a thought. I must measure up the thickness of the Wenger saw compared to the Vic 84mm opener layer spring. I have a couple in near unused condition. Would be good to get that transplant working too.

Think of the possibilities...

Alox Bantam "upgraded" to Lumberjack.

Alox Cadet Upgraded to Mini Farmer

1 Cadet + 1 donor Recruit + Wenger scissors and saw = Mini Farmer with scissors.

PTRSAK · **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2012, 02:25:31 PM

In the end, I built a Carbon Artisan. Full pic's of the mod here http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,41486.0.html

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84/5 Wenger innards, 84 Vic alox scales. Possible?

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