"New Phillips / Mag glass layer found (With REAL glass Mag!)"

[Syph007]

I ran out of the normal new short phillips drivers so I just tore apart 3 new swiss champs that are fresh from the factory.  I noticed the phillips layer has been changed quite a bit.



Bottom is the new layer.  The spring and the pivot areas of both tools are different, and very odd looking from what I'm used to.  I didnt have any of the original short phillips drivers left for comparison, so I pasted in one from another picture for reference.

The tools and springs are so specialized on 91mm now that its just about impossible to tool swap on them anymore.  I like the 93s since they all use the same basic pivot shape it makes modding much easier.

[HankSolon]

That looks interesting. There are two things in my mind when I look at this.

First thing is.. The led normally fits in the first (old spring) using that nipple or tonque in the middle. With the first spring you can easily exchange the mag with a white led. This won't work anymore with the newer spring.

But!!! Do you have a wenger wrench left? Try to exchange the newer phillips with the wenger wrench. Maybe there is little grinding needed. But the shape looks good enough. I think there could be a good snap right now.

And you could replace the newer mag with an older phillips, if you like....

[ICanFixThat]

Interesting find. Good work. 

You'll just have to get on the project to create Alox scales for 91mm knives, although that just does not seem like quite as much fun for you. 

Thanks for doing such great mods for us!      

[PTRSAK]

The tools and springs are so specialized on 91mm now that its just about impossible to tool swap on them anymore.  I like the 93s since they all use the same basic pivot shape it makes modding much easier.

conspiracy theory time...  Vic are working to stop modders making cooler knives than those coming out of Ibach.

[Syph007]

The tools and springs are so specialized on 91mm now that its just about impossible to tool swap on them anymore.  I like the 93s since they all use the same basic pivot shape it makes modding much easier.

conspiracy theory time...  Vic are working to stop modders making cooler knives than those coming out of Ibach.

Thats what I was starting to think, since its going to be more annoying to get them to work on my dual spring with dual opener mod now.  The old philips you just grind off the lugs and its good to go... now I'll have to fiddle with this new goofy design to get it to work nice.

Another change though I'm sure isn't intentional, is that newer pioneers have much rougher edges... so rough are the alox edges that if I don't sand to 800 and polish before anodize, they look awful.  The old ones were much smoother and I just had to strip them.  That is likely their stamping die wearing out.  I notice this on the liner and keyring spacers as well. Much rougher edges then the older ones only a year ago.

Next they'll change scissors on me! NOOO just kidding dont do it!

[gustophersmob]

The tools and springs are so specialized on 91mm now that its just about impossible to tool swap on them anymore.  I like the 93s since they all use the same basic pivot shape it makes modding much easier.

conspiracy theory time...  Vic are working to stop modders making cooler knives than those coming out of Ibach.

Thats what I was starting to think, since its going to be more annoying to get them to work on my dual spring with dual opener mod now.  The old philips you just grind off the lugs and its good to go... now I'll have to fiddle with this new goofy design to get it to work nice.

Another change though I'm sure isn't intentional, is that newer pioneers have much rougher edges... so rough are the alox edges that if I don't sand to 800 and polish before anodize, they look awful.  The old ones were much smoother and I just had to strip them.  That is likely their stamping die wearing out.  I notice this on the liner and keyring spacers as well. Much rougher edges then the older ones only a year ago.

Next they'll change scissors on me! NOOO just kidding dont do it!

This concerns me. If it wearing out to the point that the end product finish is suffering, it makes me think they aren't planning on replacing the dies. Why do that unless they are planning on phasing out the line? I really hope we're not looking on the upcoming end of the 93mm line, but the signs seem to be pointing that way.

[enki_ck]

interesting discovery. i'm not sure what to think about why they did it and all the rest of questions raised here.

[bmot]

interesting discovery. i'm not sure what to think about why they did it and all the rest of questions raised here.

Well, the phillips does look like it would 'lock' in place better, with this change.. Also, maybe there's a bit less plastic in the mag glass, now?

[Syph007]

The phillips head itself is also a slightly different shape too.  Not dramatic, but the lugs are ground just a bit different length.

I'm putting one on an alox mod today, so I hope I can still do my across from the opener layer trick.   If there isnt enough metal on the new pivot to work correctly I will have to use a custom spring for that as well.

I really hope they done kill off the 93 alox.  If I was making decisions, I sure wouldnt!  Id start pumping out more colors and options... I can only imagine how cheaply they could produce a pioneer with scissors if they chose to!

[Marius]

The 93 mm alox line is nearing end of production for quite some time. Is just one step further close.

 

[thebullfrog]

Maybe it's just optical illusion, but it looks like the new mag glass is bigger as well?

[HankSolon]

I really hope they done kill off the 93 alox.  If I was making decisions, I sure wouldnt!  Id start pumping out more colors and options... I can only imagine how cheaply they could produce a pioneer with scissors if they chose to!

But if you think about it, there is no need for a 93mm Alox if Victorinox would produce 91mm Alox-Scales.

It's like 58mm knifes. They are made with Alox OR Cellidor.

[Syph007]

I really hope they done kill off the 93 alox.  If I was making decisions, I sure wouldnt!  Id start pumping out more colors and options... I can only imagine how cheaply they could produce a pioneer with scissors if they chose to!

But if you think about it, there is no need for a 93mm Alox if Victorinox would produce 91mm Alox-Scales.

It's like 58mm knifes. They are made with Alox OR Cellidor.

84mm knives are identical cellidor and alox too, just alox cant have a back tool.  So if they did the same for 91s it would mean no backtool, or theyd have to expose a 4th rivet.  I wont be doing it that way.  Hidden 4th pin, and 3 exposed.

[jazzbass]

84mm knives are identical cellidor and alox too, just alox cant have a back tool.  So if they did the same for 91s it would mean no backtool, or theyd have to expose a 4th rivet.  I wont be doing it that way.  Hidden 4th pin, and 3 exposed.

Factory 91mm and 84mm alox knives WITH backtools (they do exist) do not expose the 4th pin. They have them, but they are internal. I have an 84mm Alox Gourmet - two blades and a corkscrew - and it has a hidden 4th pin.

[Syph007]

84mm knives are identical cellidor and alox too, just alox cant have a back tool.  So if they did the same for 91s it would mean no backtool, or theyd have to expose a 4th rivet.  I wont be doing it that way.  Hidden 4th pin, and 3 exposed.

Factory 91mm and 84mm alox knives WITH backtools (they do exist) do not expose the 4th pin. They have them, but they are internal. I have an 84mm Alox Gourmet - two blades and a corkscrew - and it has a hidden 4th pin.

Oh that's interesting.  I had no idea factory made alox with backtools existed!

[enki_ck]

84mm knives are identical cellidor and alox too, just alox cant have a back tool.  So if they did the same for 91s it would mean no backtool, or theyd have to expose a 4th rivet.  I wont be doing it that way.  Hidden 4th pin, and 3 exposed.

Factory 91mm and 84mm alox knives WITH backtools (they do exist) do not expose the 4th pin. They have them, but they are internal. I have an 84mm Alox Gourmet - two blades and a corkscrew - and it has a hidden 4th pin.

Oh that's interesting.  I had no idea factory made alox with backtools existed!

I've seen it. It's nice and blue if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, jazzbass, the image link to that and most your older posts with graphs and valuable info is broken.   Maybe using the attach file option in the reply window would be better for such things so it remains as a reference point for other members. It's a shame for so much work you put into this all to disappear after a while.   

[crackout]

Here's a 84mm Gourmet with aluminum scales and hidden 4th pin.
Notice how thick the scales are to accomodate the pin head.

[Syph007]

Well I finished the mod I was doing using this new variant of phillips, and Im pleased to say that it actually made the mod EASIER!







All I did was grind up the 'humps' flat to make it more or less a normal pivot shape and that was just the right exact size to work with the dual opener method.  So, while the phillips drivers looks very strange to me, it ends up being an easier job for me to fit it. 

 

[Syph007]

More news on this from today's adventures.  You wont believe what I uncovered... no really you won't believe it!

This new mag glass in the new layer....


Is now....


Once again...


MADE OF GLASS!   


 


 


 


No really Im not kidding!!!!


 


 


 


I was inspecting the new mag glass today and the lens seemed separate.. I pushed on it,.. AND IT POPPED RIGHT OUT.  I tapped on the new glass and what the heck.. ITS GLASS!



Victorinox... GOOD MOVE!   

This means I can reuse the nice new glass lenses and make Al or Ti bodies for them.. AND HAVE A NICE EXPLORER LAYER!!!!! 

I guess you can tell I was VERY happy with this discovery.

[Nhoj]

Yes real glass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  This is why victorinox is an awesome company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[enki_ck]

Very cool news indeed. How's the magnification on it? Same as on the plastic one or did that change as well. And how securelly is it in the mag glass holder? Any chances of it falling out and getting lost?


Also looking forward to a Syph007 special mag glass holder.

[Syph007]

Very cool news indeed. How's the magnification on it? Same as on the plastic one or did that change as well. And how securelly is it in the mag glass holder? Any chances of it falling out and getting lost?


Also looking forward to a Syph007 special mag glass holder.

I tested it and the magnification seems Identical to the all plastic one.

Its in there pretty good, I was really pushing on it.  And it felt weird.. .well since it wasnt bending with the frame like the other one does.  When it popped right out in my hand, my jaw dropped!

I wonder why they keep changes like this secret.  Its a good move!

Im so happy to get these.  I was trying to find low cost high qualitity lenses this exact size to make alox yeomans, and they are hard to find.   And low and behold, I already had them, I just didnt know!

[kkokkolis]

Very interesting.

[jaydar]

This means I can reuse the nice new glass lenses and make Al or Ti bodies for them.. AND HAVE A NICE EXPLORER LAYER!!!!! 

I guess you can tell I was VERY happy with this discovery.

Sounds fantastic  ......... odd that they stuck with the clear plastic frame

[mashguy4077]

Lets hope the glass is used in all models with the magnifiers.

[enki_ck]

...
I wonder why they keep changes like this secret.  Its a good move!
...

Honestly, I doubt anyone except us would notice. Remember the German eBay store? No one noticed, including themselves, that they had the old Explorer in the pictures and were selling the new one for years. And that from a 35k top rated seller.

[396988]

So is the magnification the same. SAKwiki says it use to be 8x then the plastic was 5x. Have they gone back to 8x?

[dbeeks1]

I bought a SwissChamp a few weeks ago from Amazon. I noticed that the lens was seperate from the frame but still assumed it was plastic. It is in fact glass. 

[Syph007]

I bought a SwissChamp a few weeks ago from Amazon. I noticed that the lens was seperate from the frame but still assumed it was plastic. It is in fact glass. 

My 4 swisschamps were also from Amazon.  Seems like the place to order from to get a new one now.   

[Monrogue]

That's good news indeed, but stinks that I am stuck with a plastic one.  Why couldn't they have done this a few months ago   Oh well, I'm sure they work/function pretty much the same