Quick Dismantling question - Charge TTI and Rebar

[Jors]

I have a few questions. (My first real mods - except the Surge loose clip mod)

I am getting a Charge TTi within two days and I would like to mate the rebar head on it.
I have read the article by metropolicity about the operation. It is somewhere mentioned that I can keep a zippo flame on both sides for 10 secs.

1) If the flame is about an inch high do I keep the flame uninterupted for ten seconds on the one side and by turning upside down 10 seconds on the other side? That gives a total of 20 seconds of heat on the one screw / axle / pivot (10 secs a side). Won't this destroy the temper? I assume I have to unscrew immediately before it cools down?

2) I have read somewhere that some of the multitools' pivot screw can only be unscrewed from one side. Is it as such on the TTi? Which side if?

3) Will it require a lot of torque or is it soft after heat?

4) The Rebar, what is the position on question 2?

5) Last question, Metropolicity added aluminum blocks to the TTi / Wave in which he added a toothpic and a set of tweazers. This aluminum piece, is it glued on or how did he attached it?

[Metropolicity]

I have a few questions. (My first real mods - except the Surge loose clip mod)

I am getting a Charge TTi within two days and I would like to mate the rebar head on it.
I have read the article by metropolicity about the operation. It is somewhere mentioned that I can keep a zippo flame on both sides for 10 secs.

1) If the flame is about an inch high do I keep the flame uninterupted for ten seconds on the one side and by turning upside down 10 seconds on the other side? That gives a total of 20 seconds of heat on the one screw / axle / pivot (10 secs a side). Won't this destroy the temper? I assume I have to unscrew immediately before it cools down?

2) I have read somewhere that some of the multitools' pivot screw can only be unscrewed from one side. Is it as such on the TTi? Which side if?

3) Will it require a lot of torque or is it soft after heat?

4) The Rebar, what is the position on question 2?

5) Last question, Metropolicity added aluminum blocks to the TTi / Wave in which he added a toothpic and a set of tweazers. This aluminum piece, is it glued on or how did he attached it?

1. It won't effect the temper, it won't get to a high enough temperature. 10 seconds is an estimate.
2. The only ones you have to worry about are the "tool" pivot side. The knife and plier pivots are smooth. The 'tool' pivot ones are index (with two flat sides on the pivot pin). So, if it gives you resistance after you try to turn it a 1/4 turn, move to the other side.
3. It should be very easy to break, I use a very short 3" ratchet and it moves easily.
4. Same thing on the Rebar. Although, the star discs are much harder to grip. I use a pair of Engineer Screw Pliers and 4" channel lock pliers.
5. I used some tape and it held for a while, I abandoned the project when I couldn't figure out a good way of attaching it without messy glue. It kept popping off when the tweezers where inserted because of the spring action.


That help?

[detron]

Very nice Metro,  great help!

Here is my question,

how long does it take an experienced modder like yourself to do a Charge & Rebar head swap?
(where you end up with a re-charge and what I call a PST 3)

[Metropolicity]

how long does it take an experienced modder like yourself to do a Charge & Rebar head swap?

How long for me?


Literally 10 mins. With the right tools you can get stuff open really fast, the toughest part is aligning the washers and getting it all tuned.

[Breezy12]

how long does it take an experienced modder like yourself to do a Charge & Rebar head swap?

How long for me?


Literally 10 mins. With the right tools you can get stuff open really fast, the toughest part is aligning the washers and getting it all tuned.

this doesn't surprise me at all. 

I've done 4 or 5 Charge/Wave + Rebar mods now, and I've gotten to the point where I can get the plier head swap done in about 30 minutes. Like Metro said, the tough part is getting all the washers in place and put back together with everything properly aligned. maybe that 10-minute mark is something I can shoot for.

it's the other modifications to the tools that become time-consuming...

[Jors]

I have prepared myself mentally for the Leatherman surgery tonight. Thought about it for quite some time the past two days.
I have bought two Kick clips as it can be used as the Rebar pivot removable spanner tool, afte you have grinded off the little lip (After an article in the Mod Squad a long time ago). I only realised tonight that the Rebar have two sizes of pivots. The pivots on the plier side is bigger and then I realised that the Kick clip (spanner) will only work on the smaller pivots.
After I have watched the movie clip on Youtube, "Leatherman Multitool Disassembly.flv", I know now wich side of the Rebar pivots is the screw cap and which side is the whole pivot.
When the Rebar is folder open that the pliers head is pointing away from you, and the phillips driver is in the handle pointing to your right, you will notice the pliers pivots on top is extruding less out of the handles than the lower tips of the pivots. The shorter tips are the caps and the longer tips are the pivots shafts.
Now I must figure out how to remove the Rebar's pivots without scratching or damaging them.

For the Charge TTi I have a Security T10 quarter inch bit driver and a T10 Torx bit driver, as well as a L shapet tool with two T10 torx tips. The ordinary tips I can turn on my lathe or use a dremel to drill a hole in the tip. I don't have any idea yet which sides are the screw tips of the pivots on the TTi yet.

I am However a bit disgusted in the Rebar because of rust. I had to wipe the tool aqnd head on several places with an oil impregnated piece of steel whool to remove the rust. And I have been using the Rebar only 14 months. However there is no damage.

What will the easies and sfest way be to remove the Rebar pivot screws?

[Breezy12]

from Metro's earlier reply:

4. Same thing on the Rebar. Although, the star discs are much harder to grip. I use a pair of Engineer Screw Pliers and 4" channel lock pliers.

I don't have the Engineer Screw Pliers, so I use a LM Crunch on the pivot side and a regular Visegrip on the screw side. But consider yourself warned -- the Rebar screws will take some damage using this method, even if you're extremely careful. They will still be fully functional (you'll be able to put the Rebar back together if you want), but they will look like they've been tampered with.

[lowtech]

Nothing to do with LM, but on my MP 600s , a plier head swap takes about 2 minutes...

On my Wingman/Sidekick 8My experimental LMs) plier head exchange took me everything from 45 to 10 minutes - It takes longer if I´m stubborn and don´t use correct tools from teh beginning.

And something else LM related:
Does anybody know the exact size of the 5-lobe security Torx used on the Sideclip/Wave and so on?
I would like to order some, but would like to only order the sizes needed, not a full set.

[Metropolicity]

And something else LM related:
Does anybody know the exact size of the 5-lobe security Torx used on the Sideclip/Wave and so on?
I would like to order some, but would like to only order the sizes needed, not a full set.

They are a size T10, but it's called a Pentalobe, or a 5-star I think. They usually come in a set of 6 and are used for cars so they are pricey. Sometimes they come in a small screw driver form.

[Jors]

Metro,

OK, I have done it:


This is the end result that I should actually posted last. You can see the spares I am now sitting with, as well as my new Recarge. I also noticed that the scales are now different than previous TTis.

I thought about what you said that the pivots will be damaged. I decided to give the Kick clips a try by cutting them open with a dremel and by bending them open a little bit:

The left one is the one I used to do the turning as it is stronger. The right one was too weak, but strong enough to prevent the pivot's other side from turning. I used a zippo lighter with the flame about 12 seconds per side of the pivot I am going to work on. It came loose so extremely easy, WITHOUT ANY SIGN OF DAMAGE! Not even scratches on the Rebar body / frame.

This is the crew part of the pivot, the thicker side, and not as I stated earlier:


The bottom side is the screw part and the top part is the pivot shaft. No damage:


Another view:


I did the same with the Charge TTi. I pinched the one T10 torx security driver in the vise and hold the Charge onto that. worked like a charm. Because it was thicker I hold the zippo 15 seconds per side. It came out even easier than the Rebar:


I am also experiencing that the Recharge is not closing completely. I notice it is possibly the scissors's handle tip (A), but I see that the screw driver (B) is also making a mark on the pliers head.

However it is closing good enough for now. I will decide later if I would like it to close better than 98 %.

Here it is again:

[Jors]

I forgot to mention I lost the one screw and had a problem finding it. I am disabled a bit in my legs and had to move the workbech to get to it.

I also marked the sides with a sharpie marker to get everything back as were. I noticed that the file had two washers where the other OHO blades all had one only.

On both the Rebar and the Cgarge the pliers head pivot were completely round. there were no flat sides on the pivot shafts.

[lowtech]

They are a size T10, but it's called a Pentalobe, or a 5-star I think. They usually come in a set of 6 and are used for cars so they are pricey. Sometimes they come in a small screw driver form.

Thanks!

[Taxi Dad]

well done Jors 
and thanks for sharing. now we need a 'review' on the Recharge 
and what do you 'modders' do with the leftovers ? do you put the Rebar back together with the charge head in place ? I'm just curious cos I would think it would still be a half reasonable and useable tool. there must be a few of these 'mutants' around nowadays but they have little 'value' in money terms. which is a shame !!!

[derekmac]

well done Jors 
and thanks for sharing. now we need a 'review' on the Recharge 

+1!
Thanks for taking the time to document and share this!  I know if I had a Rebar, I'd probably want to swap the head into my TTi, though I do have to saw I'd miss the crimper.  I've used that when doing wiring on the Jeep, and it works great.

[bmot]

Looking good 


If you look in Metro's ReCharge-thread, you'll see that it's indeed the scissors-handle that's in the way of the pliers, causing the bad closing.

[ducttapetech]

nicely done!

[Outback in Idaho]

I thought about what you said that the pivots will be damaged. I decided to give the Kick clips a try by cutting them open with a dremel and by bending them open a little bit:
(Image removed from quote.)
The left one is the one I used to do the turning as it is stronger. The right one was too weak, but strong enough to prevent the pivot's other side from turning. I used a zippo lighter with the flame about 12 seconds per side of the pivot I am going to work on. It came loose so extremely easy, WITHOUT ANY SIGN OF DAMAGE! Not even scratches on the Rebar body / frame.

  Yes, realized had woke up an older post. It was helpful and came up on a Google search

  Did Leatherman change the Kick clip recently I wonder as had looked on Leatherman's website, Amazon, and the Leatherman Online Library and from the overhead view I cannot see the groves in the mounting hole anymore. Are the grooves still there to grip these annoying nuts/bolts, or did you have to order an older set from somewhere else?

[SteveC]

The clips no longer have the grooves.

[Outback in Idaho]

The clips no longer have the grooves.

  Anyone have a source on some older knurled pocket clips perchance?

  Used the PS4 pliers after heating up the bolt/nut on the stove.

[Montetobuso]

I have used the zippo trick a couple of times, but the last time I dismanteled an LM I used a soldering Iron with a large/broad tip and held it against the pivot for a while. That worked OK. I have also been using a pencil torch once, but then i melted a bit of the plastic insert in the handle (that time it was a kick getting worked on) but I think with practice it could be more precise and as effective as the zippo, just need to get the right distance.  But i only tried the torch once, so I might be wrong. And it has a much bigger heating potential, so you can really mess up the tempering if done wrong. I realise you already did the swap, just wanted to share some experiences on the topic.

Have you used any locktite to seal them after the installation? I use the blue one, 243 I think, as its not to hard to open again if need be, but still keeps everything nicely locked.