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Weapons of War Through History

Wilfried · 154 · 20800

be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #120 on: February 07, 2014, 09:38:02 PM
The Tank Battles of France 1940


Of course it’s impossible for me to vouch for the historical accuracy of what is said in the video below. The main reason for posting it is that it seems to depict the main tanks involved quite well.

Those were (amongst others):

The French FCM 36 and Char B 1 (which I already covered)

The German Panzer III

The British Matilda II

Also: the German 8.8 cm Flak was used, which proved to be essential...

I hope you enjoy the video!




be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #121 on: February 08, 2014, 06:25:06 PM
Siege Tower


A siege tower (also breaching tower; or in the Middle Ages a belfry) is a specialized siege engine, constructed to protect assailants and ladders while approaching the defensive walls of a fortification.

The tower was often rectangular with four wheels with its height roughly equal to that of the wall or sometimes higher to allow archers to stand on top of the tower and shoot into the fortification. Because the towers were wooden and thus flammable, they had to have some non-flammable covering of iron or fresh animal skins. The siege tower was mainly made from wood but sometimes had metal parts.

Used since the 11th century BC in the ancient Near East, the 4th century BC in Europe and also in antiquity in the Far East, siege towers were of unwieldy dimensions and, like trebuchets, were therefore mostly constructed on site of the siege. Taking considerable time to construct, siege towers were mainly built if the defense of the opposing fortification could not be overcome by ladder assault ("escalade"), by mining or by breaking walls or gates.

The siege tower sometimes housed pikemen, swordsmen, or crossbowmen who shot quarrels at the defenders. Because of the size of the tower it would often be the first target of large stone catapults but it had its own projectiles with which to retaliate.

Siege towers were used to get troops over an enemy curtain wall. When a siege tower was near a wall, it would drop a gangplank between it and the wall. Troops could then rush onto the walls and into the castle or city.


Medieval English siege tower









us Offline jerseydevil

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #122 on: February 09, 2014, 01:29:27 AM
THE BATTLECRUISER

Jacky Fisher, the force behind HMS Dreadnought, had a saying, "Speed is armour".  The ship that was truly his own development showed this theory in action.  Before 1908, there existed a class of ships known as armoured cruisers.  These ships could be almost as large as battleships, but traded armor thickness and armament for speed.  Fisher developed a sort of halfway design.  Originally called "Dreadnought armoured cruisers", by 1911 they were called battlecruisers.  The first battlecruiser, HMS Invincible, was longer and heavier than HMS Dreadnought, but carried two fewer 12-inch guns and had much thinner armor than the battleship.  Invincible was very fast, over 26 knots, thanks to the fact that she and her sister ships had double the installed horsepower of the battleships then being built.



The idea was that the battlecruiser would be able to use it's superior armament and speed to catch enemy armoured cruisers, while being fast enough to run away from a more powerful warship such as a dreadnought.  What Fisher seems to have ignored was a simple question - what if the enemy also had battlecruisers?

The first use of the battlecruiser was at the Battle of the Falkland Islands on December 8, 1914.  HMS Invincible and Inflexible overpowered and destroyed a German cruiser squadron, sinking two armoured cruisers and suffering very little damage of casualities.  At the Battle of the Dogger Bank on January 24, 1915, British battlecruisers met their German counterparts in action.  Though one of the German ships, SMS Seydlitz, was heavily damaged, the German ships managed to escape.  This was in part because the German ships had thicker armor than the British, trading some speed and gun caliber for more protection.

The Battle of Jutland on May 31, 1916 showed just how flawed the battlecruiser concept was when the ships faced their counterparts on equal terms.  During the early part of the battle, as the British and German battlecruisers engaged, HMS Indefatigable was blown apart by a massive explosion.  Two men survived.


Shortly after, HMS Queen Mary also was hit severely, and exploded, taking all but eight of her crew down with her.


HMS Princess Royal disappeared behind a curtain of near misses, and a British signalman mistakenly reported to his admiral that she too had exploded. Admiral David Beatty turned to his flag captain, shook his head, and said, "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."  Indeed there was.  The thin armor of the British battlecruisers combined with poor ammunition handling procedures ensured that one more battlecruiser would sink at the hands of its German counterparts before the day was over.  HMS Invincible, the first of her breed, took all but five of her crew with her when she was blown in half.


Jutland basically killed the idea of the battlecruiser, though several would serve into World War II.  The most famous of these is HMS Hood, which was named for the family of Admiral Horace Hood, who died on his flagship, HMS InvincibleHMS Hood suffered a massive magazine explosion and sank while in action against the German battleship Bismarck on May 24, 1941.  Only three of her crew survived.  "Speed is armour"  was, in theory, a good idea if the battlecruiser was able to run from a ship as heavily armed as she was.  The sad fact was they were not, and thousands of British sailors paid for these flaws with their lives.
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be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #123 on: February 09, 2014, 01:42:07 AM
I just finished reading your post, jerseydevil.

What an interesting story!    :tu:


us Offline jerseydevil

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #124 on: February 09, 2014, 01:50:25 AM
I just finished reading your post, jerseydevil.

What an interesting story!    :tu:

Yes it is!  It's interesting to note that though the British, Germans, French, and Japanese all built battlecruisers, the United States did not.  The US Navy concentrated on making its battleships faster.  The Iowa-class ships of WWII were far faster than any battlecruiser ever built while still carrying over a foot of armor and nine of the most powerful guns ever put to sea.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 01:53:24 AM by jerseydevil »
There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #125 on: February 09, 2014, 01:57:51 AM
Good stuff guys, I'm enjoying the reads :)
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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #126 on: February 09, 2014, 11:37:23 AM
I always thought that battle cruisers have been unfairly panned in history. If they'd been used as Fisher intended as an independent force, rather than tacked onto a battle group they would of performed much better IMO.

They would of made fearsome commerce raiders until the advent of escort carriers :)

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be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #127 on: February 09, 2014, 02:42:43 PM
I just finished reading your post, jerseydevil.

What an interesting story!    :tu:

Yes it is!  It's interesting to note that though the British, Germans, French, and Japanese all built battlecruisers, the United States did not.  The US Navy concentrated on making its battleships faster.  The Iowa-class ships of WWII were far faster than any battlecruiser ever built while still carrying over a foot of armor and nine of the most powerful guns ever put to sea.

Could you expand somewhat more on this? I find myself to be a little confused as to the exact differences between battleships and battlecruisers. What exactly led the Americans to a different philosophy as compared to the European and Japanese actors?

Thanks!


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #128 on: February 09, 2014, 03:21:46 PM
SMS Von der Tann


Another member on this forum gave me the idea to do a post on this ship, for which I thank him.


   :hatsoff:



SMS Von der Tann  was the first battlecruiser built for the German Kaiserliche Marine, as well as Germany's first major turbine-powered warship.

At the time of her construction, Von der Tann was the fastest dreadnought-type warship afloat, capable of reaching speeds in excess of 27 knots (50 km/h or 31 mph). She was designed in response to the British Invincible class. While the German design had slightly lighter guns—28 cm (11 in), compared to the 30.5 cm (12 in) Mark X mounted on the British ships—Von der Tann was faster and significantly better-armored.
She set the precedent of German battlecruisers carrying much heavier armor than their British equivalents, albeit at the cost of smaller guns.

Von der Tann participated in a number of fleet actions during the First World War, including several bombardments of the English coast. She was present at the Battle of Jutland, where she destroyed the British battlecruiser HMS Indefatigable in the opening minutes of the engagement. Von der Tann was hit several times by large-caliber shells during the battle, and at one point in the engagement, the ship had all of her main battery guns out of action either due to damage or malfunction. Nevertheless, the damage was quickly repaired and the ship returned to the fleet in two months.

Following the end of the war in November 1918, Von der Tann, along with most of the High Seas Fleet, was interned at Scapa Flow pending a decision by the Allies as to the fate of the fleet. The ship met her end when the fleet was scuttled in 1919 to prevent the ships from falling into British hands.
The wreck was raised in 1930, and scrapped at Rosyth from 1931 to 1934.

What a beauty she was!





Von der Tann in 1911



us Offline jerseydevil

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #129 on: February 09, 2014, 08:10:19 PM
Nice post Wilfried.  :tu:  Some members might remember a post by Grumpy last year about this ship and the Scarborough raid in 1914.  This was my great-grandfather's ship, and his Barry's grandfather was wounded during the raid.....

As to your other post about battlecruisers vs. battleships - The main difference between a battleship (BB in US Navy hull designators) and a battlecruiser (BC) was that the BB traded engines for gunpower and armor protection.  Dreadnought's main armor belt was over 12" in places.  Invincible's main armor was no more than 8", and then over a very limited area.  As engine technology improved, the massive areas required for engines became smaller and smaller, allowing for more compact and less heavy machinery.  By 1915 in fact, the British launched the Queen Elizabeth - class BB's.  These were full out battleships, with eight 15-inch guns, 13" armor belts, and a speed of 25 knots.  This was the way of the future, the fast battleship.  The US Navy intended their BB's to have to fight a fleet action against the Japanese after a long Pacific crossing without major shipyard support.  A lightly-armored capital ship didn't fit into this equation.  The US supported its battle line with traditional cruisers, which were not intended to take on larger ships with massive firepower.  In fact, the only US BC's ever started became aircraft carriers very quickly after launching, USS Saratoga and USS Lexington.  By 1941, the Japanese had rebuilt their Kongo-class BC's as fast BB's to a point, though their armor was still on the thin side.  Hiei was wrecked by US cruisers at night during the battles around Guadalcanal, and had to be scuttled.  Kirishima stood no chance against a real, fully armored fast BB the next night when she encountered USS Washington and USS South DakotaSouth Dakota took several hits from Kirishima, and was not in any danger of sinking.  Kirishima took several 16-inch hits at close range from Washington and quickly had to be abandoned.  In these conditions, the BC's advantage of speed to keep away from the heavier ship was no advantage, and the thinner armor was a severe liability.  The Iowa's could catch many destroyers if needed, forget other BB's and enemy BC's!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:37:11 PM by jerseydevil »
There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #130 on: February 09, 2014, 08:34:58 PM
Thanks a lot, jerseydevil!

That about clarifies it for me.       :tu:


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #131 on: February 09, 2014, 08:40:09 PM
For those who missed it, I post this video again:


Jutland: Clash of the Dreadnoughts






00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #132 on: February 09, 2014, 08:54:23 PM
Nice post Wilfried.  :tu:  Some members might remember a post by Grumpy last year about this ship and the Scarborough raid in 1914.  This was my great-grandfather's ship, and his Barry's grandfather was wounded during the raid.....

As to your other post about battlecruisers vs. battleships - The main difference between a battleship (BB in US Navy hull designators) and a battlecruiser (BC) was that the BB traded engines for gunpower and armor protection.  Dreadnought's main armor belt was over 12" in places.  Invincible's main armor was no more than 8", and then over a very limited area.  As engine technology improved, the massive areas required for engines became smaller and smaller, allowing for more compact and less heavy machinery.  By 1915 in fact, the British launched the Queen Elizabeth - class BB's.  These were full out battleships, with eight 15-inch guns, 13" armor belts, and a speed of 25 knots.  This was the way of the future, the fast battleship.  The US Navy intended their BB's to have to fight a fleet action against the Japanese after a long Pacific crossing without major shipyard support.  A lightly-armored capital ship didn't fit into this equation.  The US supported its battle line with traditional cruisers, which were not intended to take on larger ships with massive firepower.  In fact, the only US BC's ever started became aircraft carriers very quickly after launching, USS Saratoga and USS Lexington.  By 1941, the Japanese had rebuilt their Kongo-class BC's as fast BB's to a point, though their armor was still on the thin side.  Hiei was wrecked by US cruisers at night during the battles around Guadalcanal, and had to be scuttled.  Kirishima stood no chance against a real, fully armored fast BB the next night when she encountered USS Washington and USS South DakotaSouth Dakota took several hits from Kirishima, and was not in any danger of sinking.  Kirishima took several 16-inch hits at close range from Washington and quickly had to be abandoned.  In these conditions, the BC's advantage of speed to keep away from the heavier ship was no advantage, and the thinner armor was a severe liability.  The Iowa's could catch many destroyers if needed, forget other BB's and enemy BC's!

Or if you want to put it tank terms,its a M18 Hellcat tank destroyer vs a A34 Comet
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be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #133 on: February 10, 2014, 12:35:15 PM
Battering ram



A battering ram is a siege engine originating in ancient times and designed to break open the masonry walls of fortifications or splinter their wooden gates.

In its simplest form, a battering ram is just a large, heavy log carried by several people and propelled with force against an obstacle. The ram would be sufficient to damage the target if the log was massive enough and/or it were moved quickly enough (that is, if it had enough momentum).
Later rams encased the log in an arrow-proof, fire-resistant canopy mounted on wheels. Inside the canopy, the log was swung from suspensory chains or ropes.

Rams proved effective weapons of war because old fashioned wall-building materials such as stone and brick were weak in tension, and therefore prone to cracking when impacted with sufficient force. With repeated blows, the cracks would grow steadily until a hole was created. Eventually, a breach would appear in the fabric of the wall and enabling armed attackers to force their way through the gap and engage the inhabitants of the citadel.

The introduction in the later Middle Ages of siege cannons spelled the end of battering rams and other traditional siege weapons.


Assyrian siege of a city using a battering ram





Replica battering ram at Château des Baux, France.









Offline 209brian

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #134 on: February 10, 2014, 02:25:39 PM
The United States was the last country to build and commission battle cruisers.  Little known but beautiful ships...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_class


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #135 on: February 10, 2014, 06:56:50 PM
T-34


First deployed in 1940, the T-34 was a Soviet medium tank which had a profound and permanent effect on the fields of tank tactics and design.
It has often been described as the most effective, efficient, and influential design of World War II.

At its introduction, the T-34 possessed the best balance of firepower, mobility, protection, and ruggedness of any tank, although its initial battlefield effectiveness suffered from the unsatisfactory ergonomic layout of its crew compartment, scarcity of radios, and poor tactical employment.
Its 76.2 mm (3 in) high-velocity gun was the best tank gun in the world at that time; its heavy sloped armour was impenetrable by standard anti-tank weapons and the tank was very agile.
Though its armour and armament were surpassed later in the war, when they first encountered it in battle in 1941 German tank generals von Kleist and Guderian called it the deadliest tank in the world.


T-34-76-1943 at the Panzermuseum Munster




T-34-76 Sevastopol 2009




This English subtitled video is Russian spoken and partly also in German.





us Offline jerseydevil

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #136 on: February 10, 2014, 11:14:31 PM
The United States was the last country to build and commission battle cruisers.  Little known but beautiful ships...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_class

There's actually a lot of debate if the Alaskas were really battlecruisers or not.  In design they were basically enlarged Baltimore-class heavy cruisers, with 11" guns rather than 11".  The USN never called them battlecruisers, though the naming (territories rather than states or cities) and the hull classification (CB, though the USN did have the BC classifier from the Lexington class) put them into that range, along with their mission as super cruiser killers.  Interestingly, those ships are the only US Navy ships ever to carry 11" guns.
There's no such thing as "Too pretty to carry".  There's only "Too pretty NOT to carry"...... >:D


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #137 on: February 11, 2014, 11:58:15 AM
HMS Argus (I49)



HMS Argus was a British aircraft carrier that served in the Royal Navy from 1918 to 1944.

She was converted from an ocean liner that was under construction when the First World War began, and became the first example of what is now the standard pattern of aircraft carrier, with a full-length flight deck that allowed wheeled aircraft to take off and land. After commissioning, the ship was heavily involved for several years in the development of the optimum design for other aircraft carriers. Argus also evaluated various types of arresting gear, general procedures needed to operate a number of aircraft in concert, and fleet tactics.


Argus in harbour in 1918, painted in dazzle camouflage, with a Revenge-class battleship in the background




Argus at sea during Operation Torch in late 1942



de Offline RT1969

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #138 on: February 11, 2014, 08:24:01 PM
T-34


First deployed in 1940, the T-34 was a Soviet medium tank which had a profound and permanent effect on the fields of tank tactics and design.
It has often been described as the most effective, efficient, and influential design of World War II.

At its introduction, the T-34 possessed the best balance of firepower, mobility, protection, and ruggedness of any tank, ...

First off, this text is 1:1 from en.wikipedia.org, I do not want to critizise any of the posters here, with so many interesting and informative posts here.
But concerning the T-34: This is the worst description of the T-34 I have ever read and the Talk-Page seems to reflect this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:T-34 :facepalm:

While the T-34 is one of the most important developments of wwii, this is foremost due to it's great number and working design. I would not recommend this wikipedia article!


be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #139 on: February 11, 2014, 08:47:44 PM
T-34


First deployed in 1940, the T-34 was a Soviet medium tank which had a profound and permanent effect on the fields of tank tactics and design.
It has often been described as the most effective, efficient, and influential design of World War II.

At its introduction, the T-34 possessed the best balance of firepower, mobility, protection, and ruggedness of any tank, ...

First off, this text is 1:1 from en.wikipedia.org, I do not want to critizise any of the posters here, with so many interesting and informative posts here.
But concerning the T-34: This is the worst description of the T-34 I have ever read and the Talk-Page seems to reflect this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:T-34 :facepalm:

While the T-34 is one of the most important developments of wwii, this is foremost due to it's great number and working design. I would not recommend this wikipedia article!


... the T34 of the first version (T34/76) came as a real, nasty surprise, for overconfident German troops by the fall of 1941, when it was first committed in mass. That was a complete shock : The Germans had nothing comparable. Not only they were able to cope with the mud and snow with their large tracks, but they came as a combination of a perfect armour (thick and highly sloped), efficient gun, good speed and autonomy and above all, extreme sturdiness, reliability, easy manufacturing and maintenance. A perfect winner for an industrial war, and a quantum leap in tank design.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_T34-76.php


"Very worrying", Colonel-General Heinz Guderian, Commander of Second Panzer Army.

"We had nothing comparable", Major-General F.W. Mellenthin, Chief of Staff of XLVIII Panzer Corps.

"The finest tank in the world", Field-Marshal Ewald von Kleist, First Panzer Army.

"This tank (T-34) adversely affected the morale of the German infantry", General G. Blumentritt.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-t-34r-soviet-t-34-in-german-service.htm


00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #140 on: February 11, 2014, 09:06:19 PM
The T-34/76 was ahead of its time in 39 to 41,combining Christie type suspension for fast,comfortable ride, a 76mm turret mounted gun when most army's only used 75mm howitzers in support tanks, and leading the way in the use of sloped armour.

Lessons of the T-34 were learnt by the Germans,in the Panther,except for the Germans understanding the need for fast simple production. A reverse engineered T-34 was built by M.A.N, and was seriously considered as a long term replacement for the Panther and Tiger.

When the T-34 started meeting even competition,it possessed the ability to evolve,into later up armoured 76B and C,and ultimately the T34/85. One of the key strengths of the T-34 was it was easy to produce in great numbers,and the basic nature of Soviet forces meant there would always be superior numbers!

If you want a really controversial opinion,the influential design of WW2 was the British A41 heavy cruiser,also known as the Centurion...it in effect kicked off the race we now know as the Main Battle Tank!
There is no beginning,or ending,and for this we are thankful,cos now is hard enough to understand!


de Offline RT1969

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be Offline Wilfried

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #142 on: February 11, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
The T-34/76 was ahead of its time in 39 to 41,combining Christie type suspension for fast,comfortable ride, a 76mm turret mounted gun when most army's only used 75mm howitzers in support tanks, and leading the way in the use of sloped armour.

Lessons of the T-34 were learnt by the Germans,in the Panther,except for the Germans understanding the need for fast simple production. A reverse engineered T-34 was built by M.A.N, and was seriously considered as a long term replacement for the Panther and Tiger.

When the T-34 started meeting even competition,it possessed the ability to evolve,into later up armoured 76B and C,and ultimately the T34/85. One of the key strengths of the T-34 was it was easy to produce in great numbers,and the basic nature of Soviet forces meant there would always be superior numbers!

If you want a really controversial opinion,the influential design of WW2 was the British A41 heavy cruiser,also known as the Centurion...it in effect kicked off the race we now know as the Main Battle Tank!

I certainly do agree to what you said.    ;)


ca Offline Chako

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #143 on: February 13, 2014, 12:55:32 PM
I stumbled upon this.





« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:58:40 PM by Chako »
A little Leatherman information.

Leatherman series articles


us Offline SublimetalMsG

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #144 on: February 13, 2014, 01:08:34 PM
They came up with better names for every thing back in the day invincible class, dreadnought, battle cruiser.....we need some bad ass names in the future too.......we have my little pony's though..... Eh
I don't know yet


us Offline Sazabi

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #145 on: February 13, 2014, 02:41:17 PM
They came up with better names for every thing back in the day invincible class, dreadnought, battle cruiser.....we need some bad ass names in the future too.......we have my little pony's though..... Eh

What's wrong with the Brony-class MBT, where everypony soldier is the best protected pony in Ponyville?  :whistle:


us Offline SublimetalMsG

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #146 on: February 13, 2014, 07:07:14 PM
Lol good point
I don't know yet


00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #147 on: February 13, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
They came up with better names for every thing back in the day invincible class, dreadnought, battle cruiser.....we need some bad ass names in the future too.......we have my little pony's though..... Eh

What's wrong with the Brony-class MBT, where everypony soldier is the best protected pony in Ponyville?  :whistle:

I'm a little relieved...I thought that said Bronty class. Lots of prejudice and not so much pride!
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us Offline MadPlumbarian

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #148 on: February 13, 2014, 07:28:38 PM
Well not really history, but very interesting! JR
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00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Weapons of War Through History
Reply #149 on: February 13, 2014, 07:35:47 PM
Well not really history, but very interesting! JR
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Break out the beans :ahhh
There is no beginning,or ending,and for this we are thankful,cos now is hard enough to understand!


 

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April Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Apr 30
Total Receipts: $42.16
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