VW in hot water!

[AdmSlc]

Anyone have a VW diesel vehicle? Quite interesting all the efforts VW made to circumvent the law regarding emissions. I heard they just fired the CEO.

[firiki]

Now there's talk that SEAT vehicles also have that software. SEAT is VW affiliate company, mind you.

[dks]

I have been following this for a few days, and made a few posts about it in the hidden  threads..
VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda and many others may be affected.

[styx]

Noooo, not Škoda. I actually like 'em

[sawman]

I don't know how these things work but would it be possible for an owner of one of these to sue for the full amount of their car plus attorney's fees?

[ToolJoe]

VW has set aside $18 billion us dollars for potential fines in the US. They run the risk of potentially getting fined $37,500 per car. Keep in mind, their total profits for last year were $12 billion. VW really blew their foot off with this one. 

[jzmtl]

Can't believe they did that, don't they suppose someone will eventually figure it out?

[Ricardomfs]

Yap that´s bad, and i think VW didn´t have the need to do that, they sell like hell! i´m a vw fan, had quit a few these years, now i have citroen c4, an for those o know this model, it´s a plastic car, my god the lack of quality, my previous car was a vw bora, tdi 150hp, and that was hell in the streets, was with 2xx hp...but got divorced, no need for that car 120 km to work everyday, only me and my litlle girl, and sold it, very weel indeed:)
I don´t know the engine code, but the 2.0 tdi is in a lot of models, from audi seat skoda and all those 11 million vw´s! this will not be good for the brand, but there are other brands in VAG group that will give an hand to VW.

[captain spaulding]

I don't know how these things work but would it be possible for an owner of one of these to sue for the full amount of their car plus attorney's fees?

I do not know if they could sue for the full amount, but I assume they could sue for estimated cost of mileage that was claimed and not gotten pertaining to the cars current mileage. I would hope anyone who owns a VW that claimed certain mileage and is now know to be a lie from VW would be able to return the car for a full refund of its original cost. I do not know if that is a option, but in my opinion it should be as the consumer was lied to about crucial aspects of the car and was duped into a purchase. I am just a ordinary guy though so I am just assuming and have no legal knowledge.

A while back Hyundai found out (on there own) that some of their vehicles were not getting the mileage claimed so if you currently own one of those cars you just report your miles every year (I think) and they write you a check for the cost of fuel of the mileage you did not get as stated originally.

[firiki]

IMO, people should be suing for fraud. I hope they do so.

... now i have citroen c4, an for those o know this model, it´s a plastic car, my god the lack of quality, ...

I drive a C4 and yes the plastics on it could be better, some I'd prefer if they weren't there ( bumpers ) but overall I like it for how it rides like a true Citroen. 'Not fond of the suspensions, though.

[Ricardomfs]

IMO, people should be suing for fraud. I hope they do so.

... now i have citroen c4, an for those o know this model, it´s a plastic car, my god the lack of quality, ...

I drive a C4 and yes the plastics on it could be better, some I'd prefer if they weren't there ( bumpers ) but overall I like it for how it rides like a true Citroen. 'Not fond of the suspensions, though.

Really fun to drive indeed, to a curvy road i agree with you on that, a very precise car to corner, and with 4.8 l/100, awesome for eating km´s

owww the plastics..... and mine is 3 door, and Jesus Christ, thats a really big door...

[Ricardomfs]

I don't know how these things work but would it be possible for an owner of one of these to sue for the full amount of their car plus attorney's fees?

I do not know if they could sue for the full amount, but I assume they could sue for estimated cost of mileage that was claimed and not gotten pertaining to the cars current mileage. I would hope anyone who owns a VW that claimed certain mileage and is now know to be a lie from VW would be able to return the car for a full refund of its original cost. I do not know if that is a option, but in my opinion it should be as the consumer was lied to about crucial aspects of the car and was duped into a purchase. I am just a ordinary guy though so I am just assuming and have no legal knowledge.

A while back Hyundai found out (on there own) that some of their vehicles were not getting the mileage claimed so if you currently own one of those cars you just report your miles every year (I think) and they write you a check for the cost of fuel of the mileage you did not get as stated originally.

wasn't all this mess about emissions mate? our i miss something and they also adulterate the mpg autonomy?

[firiki]

IMO, people should be suing for fraud. I hope they do so.

... now i have citroen c4, an for those o know this model, it´s a plastic car, my god the lack of quality, ...

I drive a C4 and yes the plastics on it could be better, some I'd prefer if they weren't there ( bumpers ) but overall I like it for how it rides like a true Citroen. 'Not fond of the suspensions, though.

Really fun to drive indeed, to a curvy road i agree with you on that, a very precise car to corner, and with 4.8 l/100, awesome for eating km´s

owww the plastics..... and mine is 3 door, and Jesus Christ, thats a really big door...

4.8 l/100km  Please tell me your secret! The best consumption I ever saw was 5.6, I average 6.5 to 7 lt on open road and anything from 8.5 to 10 in the city. Wait, what's your engine?

I hate the plastics and the fabric on the roof in the summer...

[Ricardomfs]

IMO, people should be suing for fraud. I hope they do so.

... now i have citroen c4, an for those o know this model, it´s a plastic car, my god the lack of quality, ...

I drive a C4 and yes the plastics on it could be better, some I'd prefer if they weren't there ( bumpers ) but overall I like it for how it rides like a true Citroen. 'Not fond of the suspensions, though.

Really fun to drive indeed, to a curvy road i agree with you on that, a very precise car to corner, and with 4.8 l/100, awesome for eating km´s

owww the plastics..... and mine is 3 door, and Jesus Christ, thats a really big door...

4.8 l/100km  Please tell me your secret! The best consumption I ever saw was 5.6, I average 6.5 to 7 lt on open road and anything from 8.5 to 10 in the city. Wait, what's your engine?

I hate the plastics and the fabric on the roof in the summer...

I´m runing the fabulous..... ok weak clutch, dual mass flywheel, but it´s a good engine 1.6 hdi non FAP.

yes it 4.8, very good for a car that weights 1450kg.

[firiki]

4.8 l/100km  Please tell me your secret! The best consumption I ever saw was 5.6, I average 6.5 to 7 lt on open road and anything from 8.5 to 10 in the city. Wait, what's your engine?

I hate the plastics and the fabric on the roof in the summer...

I´m runing the fabulous..... ok weak clutch, dual mass flywheel, but it´s a good engine 1.6 hdi non FAP.

yes it 4.8, very good for a car that weights 1450kg.

That explains it! I drive a humble 1.4 essence motor, 5 doors. Decent motor, though. 1450kg? Mine is supposed to weigh 1180 when empty.

Weak clutch or soft?

[Ricardomfs]

4.8 l/100km  Please tell me your secret! The best consumption I ever saw was 5.6, I average 6.5 to 7 lt on open road and anything from 8.5 to 10 in the city. Wait, what's your engine?

I hate the plastics and the fabric on the roof in the summer...

I´m runing the fabulous..... ok weak clutch, dual mass flywheel, but it´s a good engine 1.6 hdi non FAP.

yes it 4.8, very good for a car that weights 1450kg.

That explains it! I drive a humble 1.4 essence motor, 5 doors. Decent motor, though. 1450kg? Mine is supposed to weigh 1180 when empty.

Weak clutch or soft?

bad clutch, not durable mate! sorry 1450kg was the weight of my Bora, but this one is not that much different, 1380kg, heavy car, but also a big car to!

[gregozedobe]

wasn't all this mess about emissions mate? our i miss something and they also adulterate the mpg autonomy?

Yep, VW programmed the motor's ECU to run very clean when it was doing the formal emissions test (particularly NOX), but ran for better economy the rest of the time.  Mind you, unless you drive seriously slowly and extremely gently on the accelerator pedal in very light/no traffic, very few vehicles get near the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturers.

I believe this was only late model common rail 1.6 and 2.0L VW group TDI engines (which would include Seat, Skoda and Audi) and (so far) it is only the very strict US emissions tests (CARB ? ) that were not met in real life driving.  It will be interesting to see if engines from any other manufacturers also fail to meet the standards when independently tested.

[Ricardomfs]

wasn't all this mess about emissions mate? our i miss something and they also adulterate the mpg autonomy?

Yep, VW programmed the motor's ECU to run very clean when it was doing the formal emissions test (particularly NOX), but ran for better economy the rest of the time.  Mind you, unless you drive seriously slowly and extremely gently on the accelerator pedal in very light/no traffic, very few vehicles get near the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturers.

I believe this was only late model common rail 1.6 and 2.0L VW group TDI engines (which would include Seat, Skoda and Audi) and (so far) it is only the very strict US emissions tests (CARB ? ) that were not met in real life driving.  It will be interesting to see if engines from any other manufacturers also fail to meet the standards when independently tested.

I only heard them talk about the 2.0 engines, they are powerful engines, no miracles on consumption, now the 1.6, that's kind of economic mate, a lot! consumption, is always 1 L up our more above the one manufacturers announce, and you really have to drive slowly, 1500 rpm and change medium throttle always...

i read yesterday that BMW is also under investigation to....

[Gerhard Gerber]

The bad news seems to be what it would take, never mind the cost, of retro-fitting these cars to make them compliant.
One article mentions the possibility of a filter that would take up boot space.

VW is on a quality high the last few years, really a pity......

[Mike 56]

We have a 2013 VW Bug love the car l hope they sorted out quickly.

[firiki]

bad clutch, not durable mate!

  Yeah, I've heard that. It seems most models across the range wear the same clutch, at least on essence motors. Mine's still doing well but I drive little, around 10000km/year.

[tosh]

 Unbelievable that VW has actually done this and then come out and admitted it all straight up without any hint of trying to squirm out of it. Big balls indeed!!

Problem I see is that testing stations will now probably clamp down hard and double check emissions from ALL diesel engined cars....... Meaning that those who removed their Diesel Particle Filter (DPF) to boost performance and fuel economy, as I understand the engine management system needs to be remapped to recalibrate the difference. Well those poor sods will suddenly realise the cost of those damn filters - a close friends DPF caused havoc and basically shutdown the engine. The replacement was. £2000!!! (BMW 5 series) So he had it removed and remapped. Now he's getting worried his car will fail its next emissions test and force him to fork out the outrageous cost of refitting the DPF.
Many people will probably move on their altered cars to unsuspecting buyers - what an unpleasant future shock for the new buyers!!

[Smashie]

There are a few points that people don't seem to have picked up on.

    1. The ecu was made by Bosch, so the same ecu will be in several other makes
    2. In the UK at least, company car tax is partly based on CO2 emissions, this could smurf over a lot of people if the CO2 figures are corrected
    3. Resale of these cars will go through to floor in the short term

[moonweasel]

There are a few points that people don't seem to have picked up on.

    1. The ecu was made by Bosch, so the same ecu will be in several other makes
    2. In the UK at least, company car tax is partly based on CO2 emissions, this could smurf over a lot of people if the CO2 figures are corrected
    3. Resale of these cars will go through to floor in the short term

Audi, Seat and Skoda do appear to be under a cloud of suspicion from what I have been hearing.

[Smashie]

There are a few points that people don't seem to have picked up on.

    1. The ecu was made by Bosch, so the same ecu will be in several other makes
    2. In the UK at least, company car tax is partly based on CO2 emissions, this could smurf over a lot of people if the CO2 figures are corrected
    3. Resale of these cars will go through to floor in the short term

Audi, Seat and Skoda do appear to be under a cloud of suspicion from what I have been hearing.

Ford also use Bosch ecu's so do many other non VAG companies

[moonweasel]

There are a few points that people don't seem to have picked up on.

    1. The ecu was made by Bosch, so the same ecu will be in several other makes
    2. In the UK at least, company car tax is partly based on CO2 emissions, this could smurf over a lot of people if the CO2 figures are corrected
    3. Resale of these cars will go through to floor in the short term

Audi, Seat and Skoda do appear to be under a cloud of suspicion from what I have been hearing.

Ford also use Bosch ecu's so do many other non VAG companies

This will be VAG programming/code work, not  a Bosch hardware issue. It wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers are doing dodgy stuff like this though.

[firiki]

According to what I've been reading in the newspaper (what a vice...) there's a lot of filth in this story and politics is, of course, concerned. In accordance with forum rules I won't get deeper into that part. Waiting to see what happens next.

I am surprised that some people are surprised though. Does anyone believe big, multinational companies are run by saints?

[Ricardomfs]

According to what I've been reading in the newspaper (what a vice...) there's a lot of filth in this story and politics is, of course, concerned. In accordance with forum rules I won't get deeper into that part. Waiting to see what happens next.

I am surprised that some people are surprised though. Does anyone believe big, multinational companies are run by saints?

The more we sell, more money we make, simple.....


By the way mate 10.000kms a year, Hum i wish, I'm doing at least 3000km a month....

[dks]

Audi says 2.1million of its diesel cars worldwide are fitted with the emissions cheat devices used by parent company Volkswagen

Affected models include the A1, A3, A4, A5, A6, TT, Q3 and Q5, a spokesman told the Reuters news agency.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34377443

[kkokkolis]

We are used to such scandals in my country. Siemens bribed politicians, Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH - Ferrostaal sold us dipping submarines (the bribbed minister is in jail) etc.