Leatherman Signal - A Bittersweet Offering?

[comis]

@Gareth  Thanks for reading! 

@Top-Gear-24  I think I will continue to include this for future testings, but not entirely sure I will use it enough to write an update on this tool.   I like it as a collection piece, but in terms of EDC value, it falls far behind from some of the classics like LM Wave, Vic Spirit, etc.

@Crow  Thanks for the kind words!  Just doing what I can to contribute.   I try to be more neutral and just presenting the facts of a tool, I think some of the value of reading a review is to inform future potential buyers whether it is what they want/need.  And I am sure they are probably be a better judge whether a tool is indeed a good choice for them, instead of me giving too strong a view which may affect them.

[ducttapetech]

Thanks for sharing Comis. Very nice review. Question about the awl, how does it do boring a hole in wood? It looks like it can be turned in either direction to drill.

[comis]

Thanks for sharing Comis. Very nice review. Question about the awl, how does it do boring a hole in wood? It looks like it can be turned in either direction to drill.

Hi, Nate.

Good question.  The awl is designed such way that it is kinda similar to the blade, the edge of the awl doesn't sit right in middle of the spine, but somewhat tilted to one side as well.  So if you could imagine it, both the blade and awl sit in the same 'layer', and both edge tilted to one side to accommodate each other.   It comes totally dull(I could press my thumb hard onto it, and rub it up and down...), so you will really need to sharpen this before putting it to use.  And given its wide and blunt geometry, it most likely will not be as easy as Spirit Awl or 91mm Awl to drill holes on wood.  But it should be a pretty effective scrapper for wood or ferro rod after sharpening.

[Kampfer]

@Kampfer   Like you have reviewed in the LM subforum, I too think it might be a little too wide of practical use.  I have an average hand, and if I were to spread the pliers to grab onto something, my hands could barely contain it to apply good force/torque.  And come to think about it, if we were to argue this tool is mostly for 'outdoor/bushcraft' use, then the pliers might be more useful for picking up hot lids or grabbing onto hot pots...

Then why the beef up pliers head with replaceable cutter? 
I have small hands, and I can not really use Signal for most pliers tasks.

[comis]

@Kampfer   Like you have reviewed in the LM subforum, I too think it might be a little too wide of practical use.  I have an average hand, and if I were to spread the pliers to grab onto something, my hands could barely contain it to apply good force/torque.  And come to think about it, if we were to argue this tool is mostly for 'outdoor/bushcraft' use, then the pliers might be more useful for picking up hot lids or grabbing onto hot pots...

Then why the beef up pliers head with replaceable cutter? 
I have small hands, and I can not really use Signal for most pliers tasks.

Ehh...Brother, I don't know why either...you got me at 'beef up'....
Sometimes I look at the pliers of this tool, I do wonder whether we might gain more if we were to replace it with a compound leverage pruner, or pair it with a vise grip--so it really can be an impromptu pot handle or even potentially hold up a broken tent pole(which could be immensely helpful if that happen in the middle of the night).

[babola]

Thanks for extensive review Comis. You may want to ping LM and send them the link to it, in case their forum scouts missed it this time around. Just noticed on their website there's still only 1 review (surprisingly positive) and this is now after 2 months since its release. LM is either hiding something from the public or scratching their heads what to do with all the not-so-positive reviews they received, and there would have been quite a few, especially from hard-core outdoor enthusiasts and patrons of this forum.

It's interesting to see how many little tweaks and fixes LM introduced on their full release version of Signal, compared to the one we saw on 2015 SHOTT show in January.

So yeah, while great review it doesn't change my sentiments towards this tool and if anything it makes the negatives overshadow the positives.

This however, is particularly troubling to see:



It's a design oversight, something they should have sorted and re-thought before releasing the tool to the public. 

Cheers!

[babola]

Sometimes I look at the pliers of this tool, I do wonder whether we might gain more if we were to replace it with a compound leverage pruner...

You and me both. Pruner would have been a much more usable implement in the outdoor tool, IMO.

But then we'd go against and disturb an army of outdoor enthusiasts who have only ever used their MT pliers for this:




And there's many more of those (I've seen some of them with my own eyes) than one might think 

[Grathr]

Thanks for writing this balanced review Comis!

[cody6268]

If the price comes down to around $45-70, I may buy it . 

It stinks the can/bottle opener and wire stripper combo tool as well as the awl are interfered by the hammer. 

I looked up the geographic coordinates stamped on the tool  on Wikipedia, and it led to Yamhill-Carlton High School of Yamhill, Oregon.  If you'll look at their school colors, they look an awfully lot like the Signal's.  Any significance that the school has? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamhill_Carlton_High_School

[TheDude]

Nice unbiased review. I ended up buying a Mut some time ago for outdoor use, and have been meaning to mod it to a Signal like tool for some time, as it is just a little bit heavy. Thus I can see where the designers are comming from. I just think its a little bit pricy.
Having said that, the sleletool was expensive when it first came out, so hopefully the price will come down over time. At which point I will get one. Just hope its better quality that the Bear Gryls offerings.

[BASguy]

It was a pretty good review, congrats.  It's pretty clear, that an unbiased review clearly shows the multiple deficiencies of this offering from Leatherman.  It surprises me that anyone who's hung around here for awhile is surprised about the "saber rattling" responses this tool has generated.  I think it's a normal reaction to anyone who has expectations of Leatherman AND has actually used this tool.  It's a decent idea for outdoors offerings for beginners, but the high price and low quality has reasonably generated some less than gracious attitude about it.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[comis]

You are probably right about the reviews, at least from what I read from the other long standing LM signal thread in LM subforum.  I will think about pinging potential LM folks here to let them know about this too.  It doesn't trouble me that much, but I do find the tilted edge of the blade more troubling.  I am just so used to using the Sharpmaker to sharpen my MTs, and I really couldn't think of an easy way to sharpen this with even bevel.  Gotta learn how to hold it in different angles when sharpening it one side to the other...or just let it be and use it less.

Sometimes I look at the pliers of this tool, I do wonder whether we might gain more if we were to replace it with a compound leverage pruner...

You and me both. Pruner would have been a much more usable implement in the outdoor tool, IMO.

But then we'd go against and disturb an army of outdoor enthusiasts who have only ever used their MT pliers for this:

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

And there's many more of those (I've seen some of them with my own eyes) than one might think 

My same sentiment.  And my answer to that is:


GSI micro grapper!  Weight only a few grams, it has a magnet to the side, and best yet, you can actually grab onto a light pot of food and eat it.

If we think completely out of the box, then I would even encourage LM to think also the possibility of a removable compound pruner.

Personally, I don't consider myself an outdoor expert, but from what I know and observe, there are two camps of users--the hikers/backpackers/UL backpackers(weight consicious) and Camper/Bushcrafter(less weight conscious).  It is important we know what is the happy medium between the two if it is for everyone, or are we focusing on one of these groups in particular.

[comis]

@Grathr  Thank you!  Grathr, outdoor is your backyard, what are some of your initial thoughts after this review?  Will you get one as a seasonal outdoorsman?

@cody6268  Thanks for looking it up.     I punch that in google map and don't see anything in particular from both the street view or Sat view.  I might be doing it wrong.  I would appreciate this tool more if LM did work with the school kids to come up with this tool.

@TheDude  I think the quality is still the genuine LM quality that you could expect, but as you said, it does come down to pricing vs design/performance.  But with Christmas in sight, I do hope LM to think about sale on this tool to motivate buyers.

@BASguy  I would like to think because many of our supporters have grown to love and support LM, and expect a certain quality and design from LM.  Afterall, let's not forget we are MT 'speSmurfpillsts' in the vast world of consumers, while we don't perceive it as a be-all-end-all outdoor MT and examine it with our superpower x-ray eyes, I could imagine most folks will still appreciate it and happy to receive one as gift. 

[Grathr]

@Grathr  Thank you!  Grathr, outdoor is your backyard, what are some of your initial thoughts after this review?  Will you get one as a seasonal outdoorsman?

I dont think that I will buy it.
The reason for this is simple: ( and this is probably like swearing in church ) I honestly hardly ever use a MT when on more than short one day outdoor activities. My belt knife, axe and/or saw  does all the work. I usually have a Rebar or pst2 with me (compact tool), but it only gets used if I need to remove a stuck fish hook or clamp on some lead weights wile fishing.
As for fire lighting I usually have a lighter, a couple of matchboxes and a firesteel in my pockets.
I have never felt the need to sharpen a knife on a hike, and doubt Id need to in a short term survival situation.

On short dayhikes a vic farmer or a GAK is all I really need.

From what I see in your review id say that it might actually be a ok tool for offroad bikers and motorbikers who arent planning on spending the night outdoors, but might end up doing it if they have a breakdown or accident too far from home. Then I can also see the hammer beeing useful for on the spot repairs.

[BASguy]

@BASguy  I would like to think because many of our supporters have grown to love and support LM, and expect a certain quality and design from LM.  Afterall, let's not forget we are MT 'speSmurfpillsts' in the vast world of consumers, while we don't perceive it as a be-all-end-all outdoor MT and examine it with our superpower x-ray eyes, I could imagine most folks will still appreciate it and happy to receive one as gift. 

That strikes me as a similar product trajectory Sears took with their Craftsman line


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[comis]

@Grathr  Thank you!  Grathr, outdoor is your backyard, what are some of your initial thoughts after this review?  Will you get one as a seasonal outdoorsman?

I dont think that I will buy it.
The reason for this is simple: ( and this is probably like swearing in church ) I honestly hardly ever use a MT when on more than short one day outdoor activities. My belt knife, axe and/or saw  does all the work. I usually have a Rebar or pst2 with me (compact tool), but it only gets used if I need to remove a stuck fish hook or clamp on some lead weights wile fishing.
As for fire lighting I usually have a lighter, a couple of matchboxes and a firesteel in my pockets.
I have never felt the need to sharpen a knife on a hike, and doubt Id need to in a short term survival situation.

On short dayhikes a vic farmer or a GAK is all I really need.

From what I see in your review id say that it might actually be a ok tool for offroad bikers and motorbikers who arent planning on spending the night outdoors, but might end up doing it if they have a breakdown or accident too far from home. Then I can also see the hammer beeing useful for on the spot repairs.

Thanks for the reply, and they sounds like what I would think most outdoor folks would carry/use(myself included, even though I am no where as proficient).  I think by nature, MT, will never be as handy and efficient as the 'real' tool, but user will probably weigh in the balance between "Convenience vs Price vs Difference in Performance" before deciding whether it is indeed what they want.

Most folks whom need those tools do need them for good legitimacy(such as axe/folding saw/fixed blade), and I am just curious whether people would prefer this as a 'backup' MT tool, over a regular MT tool that they may bring.  But the current price point around 100usd might be a hurdle for that.

[comis]

@BASguy  I would like to think because many of our supporters have grown to love and support LM, and expect a certain quality and design from LM.  Afterall, let's not forget we are MT 'speSmurfpillsts' in the vast world of consumers, while we don't perceive it as a be-all-end-all outdoor MT and examine it with our superpower x-ray eyes, I could imagine most folks will still appreciate it and happy to receive one as gift. 

That strikes me as a similar product trajectory Sears took with their Craftsman line


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

I sure hope that will not be the case...

[BASguy]

@BASguy  I would like to think because many of our supporters have grown to love and support LM, and expect a certain quality and design from LM.  Afterall, let's not forget we are MT 'speSmurfpillsts' in the vast world of consumers, while we don't perceive it as a be-all-end-all outdoor MT and examine it with our superpower x-ray eyes, I could imagine most folks will still appreciate it and happy to receive one as gift. 

That strikes me as a similar product trajectory Sears took with their Craftsman line


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

I sure hope that will not be the case...

I think we can all agree on that


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[enki_ck]

...This however, is particularly troubling to see:

(Image removed from quote.)

It's a design oversight, something they should have sorted and re-thought before releasing the tool to the public. 

Cheers!

Agreed. That's the thing that got me too. I can forgive a lot of things that weren't done correctly on this tool but this should have been noticed and fixed in the design stages.

Thanks for the review Chi and biting the bullet for the MTO crowd.

[Grathr]

@Grathr  Thank you!  Grathr, outdoor is your backyard, what are some of your initial thoughts after this review?  Will you get one as a seasonal outdoorsman?

I dont think that I will buy it.
The reason for this is simple: ( and this is probably like swearing in church ) I honestly hardly ever use a MT when on more than short one day outdoor activities. My belt knife, axe and/or saw  does all the work. I usually have a Rebar or pst2 with me (compact tool), but it only gets used if I need to remove a stuck fish hook or clamp on some lead weights wile fishing.
As for fire lighting I usually have a lighter, a couple of matchboxes and a firesteel in my pockets.
I have never felt the need to sharpen a knife on a hike, and doubt Id need to in a short term survival situation.

On short dayhikes a vic farmer or a GAK is all I really need.

From what I see in your review id say that it might actually be a ok tool for offroad bikers and motorbikers who arent planning on spending the night outdoors, but might end up doing it if they have a breakdown or accident too far from home. Then I can also see the hammer beeing useful for on the spot repairs.

Thanks for the reply, and they sounds like what I would think most outdoor folks would carry/use(myself included, even though I am no where as proficient).  I think by nature, MT, will never be as handy and efficient as the 'real' tool, but user will probably weigh in the balance between "Convenience vs Price vs Difference in Performance" before deciding whether it is indeed what they want.

Most folks whom need those tools do need them for good legitimacy(such as axe/folding saw/fixed blade), and I am just curious whether people would prefer this as a 'backup' MT tool, over a regular MT tool that they may bring.  But the current price point around 100usd might be a hurdle for that.

Its just way too expensive right now.
For the same price you could get a swisstool with enough change to buy a whistle and a firesteel, and you would have a much better kit.
Or a wave with enough change to get a fixed blade,  whistle and firesteel.

I think the price will drop eventually though. And if it drops enough, I might just get one.

[babola]

Its just way too expensive right now.

I believe everybody will agree with you by now. Even Leatherman themselves...as they dropped the Signal's recommended retail price from original $120 to $99 within first week post its public release in September.

The pricing should be around Rebar's, at best, IMO.

[sawman]

Too expensive definitely. You can buy several MP600's for around the price of a Signal.

[captain spaulding]

Its just way too expensive right now.

I believe everybody will agree with you by now. Even Leatherman themselves...as they dropped the Signal's recommended retail price from original $120 to $99 within first week post its public release in September.

The pricing should be around Rebar's, at best, IMO.

It's good to hear they are at least awake at the controls. To me it seems like they blew a lot of money on design and production and wanted to make up the cash fast by charging more for the tool. Once they realized they would not be selling many at the price and rather make the money back slowly then not at all they decided to lover the MSRP. That's just how my mind sees it though.

[comis]

@enki_ck  Nikola, I will do that for MT.O anytime, and surely enjoy the discussion. 

@Grathr  If you do get one, I'd love to see your review or holler back.

@babola   Signal price <= Rebar price.  That'd make sense, doesn't it?  Since it is a 'dedicated' tool, people will think about it respective EDC value.  Personally, I don't see Signal EDC valve will even get as high as Wave/Charge, and IMO, Rebar is a solid performer at current price.  I always joke about people should consider buying the best quality gears available, when it comes to outdoor survival, because we all only get one chance.  But I can't sincerely think this tool as part of that repertoire.

@sawman  I just checked about 2+ times more than a MP600 Pro Scout(which I like most from MP600 line)  I am not the biggest fan of Gerber, but many of Gerber MP600 and MP400 does offer good value to say the least.

@captain spaulding  I kinda wonder is it typical for LM to drop price from MSRP that quick?  We all know MSRP is just there for 'reference', and most of the tools I buy usually are below MSRP.  The interesting question is how low can they go?  I could imagine the detachables whistle+Ferro rod, and the diamond file with handle, are not too cheap to make.

[TheDude]

You know what would be awesome?
A comparison review between the LM Signal and the Gerber MP1.
I nearly bought the MP1 but allot of people basically said it was a heap of junk. I have said it before and I will say it again. It's really only two things. Build quality and the 25 year warranty that keep me buying Leatherman.

[Grathr]

You know what would be awesome?
A comparison review between the LM Signal and the Gerber MP1.
I nearly bought the MP1 but allot of people basically said it was a heap of junk. I have said it before and I will say it again. It's really only two things. Build quality and the 25 year warranty that keep me buying Leatherman.

You know Gerber has a lifetime warranty in North America and 25 years outside ?  And the mp600 is built like a tank.

And Victorinox also has a liftime warranty, and the build quality of the swisstool is fantastic. 

[TheDude]

You know what would be awesome?
A comparison review between the LM Signal and the Gerber MP1.
I nearly bought the MP1 but allot of people basically said it was a heap of junk. I have said it before and I will say it again. It's really only two things. Build quality and the 25 year warranty that keep me buying Leatherman.

You know Gerber has a lifetime warranty in North America and 25 years outside ?  And the mp600 is built like a tank.

And Victorinox also has a liftime warranty, and the build quality of the swisstool is fantastic. 

Agree the MP600 is a tank. Ironically I have 3 of them. Don't know how easy the warranty would be these days. Last time I enquired, the company subcontracted to do repairs went out of business or something. For a replacement I had to mail it overseas. Not cheap.

Never had a problem with a Victorinox Product, so I have never sent one back!

[comis]

You know what would be awesome?
A comparison review between the LM Signal and the Gerber MP1.
I nearly bought the MP1 but allot of people basically said it was a heap of junk. I have said it before and I will say it again. It's really only two things. Build quality and the 25 year warranty that keep me buying Leatherman.

Dude, I don't own the Gerber MP1, so I don't know how they will compare.  But in terms of the build quality of LM signal, besides the detachables(whistle/sharpening file), the main chassis still inherent the traditional LM quality that you could expect.  Overall build quality is decent, I just felt the design/combination of tools are less than ideal.

You know what would be awesome?
A comparison review between the LM Signal and the Gerber MP1.
I nearly bought the MP1 but allot of people basically said it was a heap of junk. I have said it before and I will say it again. It's really only two things. Build quality and the 25 year warranty that keep me buying Leatherman.

You know Gerber has a lifetime warranty in North America and 25 years outside ?  And the mp600 is built like a tank.

And Victorinox also has a liftime warranty, and the build quality of the swisstool is fantastic. 

That got me excited about doing MT test on MP600.  In the past, that tool has always been a collection piece to me, and am looking forward to put it in real use for testing purposes.

[Gerber Suspension]

@comis is the signal's hammer superior to a rock, for tent stakes and nails?

[Mercury]

Great review!!  Thank you for the detailed pics.  I have to say I'm tempted to give this tool a shot, once the price comes down of course.