What i do not want and what i want

[flipperjesus]

This is my first post and possibly my last. I am writing this because i am a bit frustrated.

I have got a number of multi tools, some high quality and a load of poor quality tools. Is it not a bit weird that there is not one tool that seems to fit me perfect?

I do not need a bottle opener!
I do not need a file!
I do not need a really short saw!
I do not need tiny scissors!
I do not need a can opener!
I do not need a permanent fixed philips head screwdriver!
I do not need a permanent fixed flat head screwdriver!
I do not need a spike thingy!
I do not need wire cutters that can not cut anything or strip a wire!

So what do i need!

I need a bit holder that is centered on the tool so that when i use it it feels as close to a regular screwdriver as possible!
I need a needle nose plier with bolt gripper (is it the right term?) that can take a load without cracking, yes this has happened to me multiple times with a well known quality brand!
I need wirecutters that works!
And i need a knife blade (yes i only need one blade) that also can be used as a bending tool, yes i have snapped blades in two, also with a known quality brand.

My favorite has been crkt zilla tool, now discontinued, should have been redeveloped. Useless wire cutters, i had to modify the bit storage holders and the spring in the pliers did not work very long. But it had what i wanted in a multi tool.

Now i have just ordered a SOG Reactor and i already know i am going to be a bit dissapointed, it looks good and it has what i am looking for but i dont think the bit holder is good enough and i think the wire cutters suck.

Is it so hard to make a heavy duty tool with these few functions?

Now i feel better, thank you!
Andreas
Sweden

[sLaughterMed]

Id check out the Gerber MP1. It has two outside opening blades (one serrated) a bit holder, a pry bar, and forged pliers with lineman plier style wirecutters. It is fairly expensive, but it meets all your requirements.


Also, expecting a knife blade to work a well as a pry bar is a bad idea. Pry bars need thick tool stock, some bendiness (low Rockwell hardness), and no acute corners. Knives need thin tool stock, edge retention (high Rockwell, makes knife brittle) and lots of acute corners (tip, edge etc.)

Its kind of like asking a jet engine to power a car. Just because you can, does not mean it is particularly good at that job.

[yud]

Honestly, it does not sound like you want a multitool, get some dedicated pliers, a good knife with a bit driver and don't expect to be able to use a knife "bending tool."

[Gareth]

The SOG Reactor might suite your needs.  Not many knifes are designed as a bending or prying tool though.  I definitely can't think of a multitool knife that I'd say is up for it.

[Fortytwo]

I'm afraid that there might not be much out there for you. It's not an easy feat to try and fit a well-centered bit driver that also folds in properly nor is the concept of the modern multitool (pliers style) well built for prying since you'll be putting forces on the rivets/screws from directions they weren't meant to handle.

The one that seems to fit best is the Gerber MP1 mentioned before. The forged pliers should be able to take some extra punishment. And it should have the tools you want (and some you didn't).
Another alternative might be the Leatherman Crunch, the bit-driver would be a bit more work to access and you'd not have the needlenose going but you'd be much better of for holding on to bolts and there's a dedicated wire-stripping notch on the tool.

Or maybe try your hand with something like a utility-knife with bit driver (available from Stanley, Irwin and probably more), a separate pair of pliers and something like the Pocketwrench (or any of the numerous prying tools available really). 

What kinds of situations are you looking to use the tool in?

[captain spaulding]

Honestly, it does not sound like you want a multitool, get some dedicated pliers, a good knife with a bit driver and don't expect to be able to use a knife "bending tool."

Exactly what I was going to say.

[twiliter]

Skeletool fits the specified wants, decent pliers, cutters, has a stout blade for it's size, and a fairly centered driver. Not much else. I have to agree with the others here though, a knife blade should be used as a cutting tool, despite the bushcraft videos baloney. There are creative uses for multis but there is also a point where it becomes abuse, voiding warranties. Maybe some kind of custom extreme duty thing could be made, maybe with wheels to roll it around on?

[Wanimator]

You really should carry a Pry bar separately. I assume a Skeletool failed on you?

[Aloha]

You really should carry a Pry bar separately. I assume a Skeletool failed on you?

^^^ This.  I cannot begin to tell you how many knives I see with broken tips.  I also see my share of MTs with snapped flat drivers.  These implements are not meant to pry.  If you have gotten away with it in a pinch then good on the tool. 

Small dedicated pry bars a decently priced so maybe add on to your set up.  I'd also say that MT is always going to be a compromise so may pair up the pry bar with a great set of plier, cutter, and a knife.  You'd have everything you wanted and more importantly noting you don't.

Good luck on the SOG I hope it work out for you. 

[kaput]

Not to derail, but about the pry bar part. Can't (or maybe there is) they make a multitool with a pry bar integrated? Those big(ger) flat heads are so tempting to use in a bind for lighter affair.

I know it would have to do with the leaverage point being the issue. Where the pry bar is "full tang" so to speak.

Anyway I vote for adequate prybar and awl on every multitool going forward

[dks]

Not to derail, but about the pry bar part. Can't (or maybe there is) they make a multitool with a pry bar integrated? Those big(ger) flat heads are so tempting to use in a bind for lighter affair.

I know it would have to do with the leaverage point being the issue. Where the pry bar is "full tang" so to speak.

Anyway I vote for adequate prybar and awl on every multitool going forward

The swisstool has a prybar

[jerseydevil]

The Gerber MP1 has a pry bar, as does the Victorinox Swisstool.  The flat driver/bottle opener on the Spirit is massive, and is intended to be used for prying. I know from plenty of first-hand use that the Spirit is a champ at this. As a plus, on the Spirit you get a great awl.

[dks]

Too slow 

[gregozedobe]

Have you looked at the Schrade ST5 (or the Craftsman re-label:   model # 45471)

http://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php?page=ST5E+Tough+Tool

These are reputed to have one of the toughest plier heads in the MT world (unfortunately they have been out of production for many years so are not easy to find and can fetch top dollar when they are offered for sale).

[Dean51]

I've used my Skeletool to rescue a couple of ladies in distress this winter, they had just loose battery cables. I used the same Skeletool to change the coil on my old beater car while stuck in the middle of Dunhams parking lot. Several loose screws around the house and else where. It was good for the springs and linkage on a lawn mower this spring.

I carry a modified Charge ALX to Mom and my sisters houses. Along with a bit kit, driver handle and ¼ ratchet. It's always gets used for the honey do list they have for me.

I always have a pocket knife with me but you are not supposed to pry with a knife or use it as a screw driver. If it can pry and screw I doubt it's a very good knife.

If needle nose were big enough to handle large over tight nuts & bolts they wouldn't be needle nose any more.

The reality is it's a multi-tool not a dedicated tool there will always be compromises made. At the same time they can really save the day when nothing else is around.

Sometimes you just need dedicated tools.

[flipperjesus]

Why should a multi tool be a compromise? All my criterias exists but in different tools. I have probably used my zilla tool for more than ten years without problems, i have not snapped the jaws despite some really rough handling (and they are not oversized, only good quality), the bit holder have never been a problem and ok you should not use the blade as a pry bar, fair enough.

I use my tool all the time, i work with electrics, plumbing, wood working, carpentry, pretty much everything actually.
I expect that when i pay a premium price for a multitool it will also be usefull. Do people go around buying multitools when they know its not really good at anything, it seems like that according to some of the posts. Is it a coolnes factor involved here maybe?

I already have all the dedicated tools that i need and i payed less for those than i have payed for premium multi tools that does not cut it. I dont agree that a multi tool always should be or is a compromise i just do not think they make them good enough. If i could design my own i would. There is multi tools with replaceable wire cutters that also have bolt grippers and needle nose that works fine. There is tools with centered bit holders but they are few and if they made a thicker blade i think they could whithstand  some bending action too.

I will not buy a Gerber again, sorry, no good experiences with that brand, maybe i was unlucky?
I have a leatherman xti with all the extras, bit kit, bit adapter, leather pouch, i never carry it, it is not practical, only awkward.

[kaput]

i may have found what you are looking for. And, you can carry it all on your belt.. 



 

[cody6268]

One of my main rules of knife use is that a knife blade is not a pry tool, or screwdriver. The only thing that does is destroy the knife tip (sometimes breakage to the tang) or cause injury.  Of course you're going to break a blade prying--that's the number one way to break a knife blade!  Certain divers and rescue knives have flat, chisel-like tip made for prying, but I wouldn't trust those, either.   I ocassionally use the large flat head screwdrivers on pocketknives and multitools that have them for very light prying, but a dedicated pry tool (or heavily built one piece tool) is better for pulling nails and other heavier pry jobs. 

The most centered driver is a real screwdriver.   Kobalt makes a Double Drive  1/4 drive screwdriver that works excellently, and almost as well as a powered driver from my experience.  Another suggestion is a pocket screwdriver.  I have an old one, made by Alexander, that has a slotted screwdriver with good reach that can fit No. 2 Phillips and a strong magnet on the other end of the handle, great for retrieving screws that get stuck in places a hand can't fit.   Utica's Multimaster and Klein's Trip Saver (same tool, made by the same company, though the Klein version has a special file with wire strippers the Utica version never had) have a sort of centered bit driver.

The strongest pliers are actual pliers. Regular pliers are forged from very high carbon steel (tough), while multitool pliers are cast.  Multitool pliers have the weakness in that they usually have to fold into the handles, while regular pliers don't. The tips on needlenose pliers are their weak point.  There's a reason most dedicated slip-joint and linesman's pliers are blunt nosed--the needlenose compromises their strength.  Needlenose pliers are only good for small and delicate jobs. Even if I carry a plier based tool, I often carry a pocket size pair of Vise Grips (model 6LN needlenose)  or linesman's pliers (Proto's 267G) with them  Pliers, from my experience round off bolts and nuts, a Crescent wrench is better.


Many multitools are built heavier and tougher than their smaller cousins (i.e. SOG PowerLock, Leatherman Super Tool family), but all multitools have to compromise strength to get all those tools into a pocket sized package in which all the tools fold up.   

When I've got a real tough job to do, I use regular tools.  When I have the limitation of not being able have those tools near me, I carry a multitool.  When working on farm equipment, Vise Grips or slip-joint pliers and a Crescent wrench are usually in my pockets joining my multitool, whose pliers at this point are just backup.  When doing fencing, a pair of linesman's pliers and a hatchet or small axe is on me or the vehicle.   When I work on the spring in the mountain, I have a hiking backpack full of tools that all usually get used (pipe snake, pipe wrenches, screwdrivers, etc., plus a knife), no multitool can handle that sort of work.

[Fortytwo]

But a multitool has to be a compromise.
- First there's the size factor. You can't build a decent sized tool and still have a full-sized head and all the tools people want on the inside.
- Secondly is the fact that it's supposed to fold, that means pivots and those will never be as strong as a one piece handle.
Third is the fact that for every member here there's a "perfect" tool setup. This means that the designers need to build something that enough people think is good enough. Case in point, look at the replaceable wire cutters. Some people prefer them because they mean you can change them out if they chip. Other say that they require a larger head while also weakening the jaws due to the mounting hole (both of course are reasonable answers. SOGs solution of user replaceable heads at a price not much over the cutters is genius though, have the cake and eat it IMHO). Bit driver vs. screwdrivers is the same thing, some prefer a bit driver so you can change out bits if they break and so you can take on less common heads. Others prefer not to have to carry additional bits (as you seem to have noticed with the bit kit).

[captain spaulding]

I'n my opinion a multitool is always a compromise. Its a tool to conveniently have with you that can possibly handle the things you need when "proper" tools are not available. Of course you can use your multitool as a main tool, but just the simple fact that it is designed to have (X) amount of functions in a single package means those individual functions may not work as effectively as a dedicated tool so you are compromising effectiveness for convenience. Just my opinion though.

[yud]

Maybe I am missing something here, but why not stick with the Zilla Tool?  It is a minimalist tool that has what you want.

Also for me multitools are about having something to cover everything I might need.  But when I know I am up against x I prefer having tool x.

[Aloha]

A multitool by nature is a compromise.  The Zilla sounds like a great tool for you with some exceptions, those exceptions are in a way a compromise to the tools design.

There are several guys here who have modified the daylights out of their tools to better fit their needs.  You seem to have done so as well.  Is there anything else you could have done to make the tool better?  Modding SAKs to get the "perfect" tool set with dozens of factory designs happens every day.  There is no perfect tool from the manufacturer.  We find what works and modify to make better.   

I'm lucky I guess in that my MTs are sufficient for me.  Do I find myself needing dedicated tools at times? YES.  My MT does keep me from several trips to my truck to fetch the "perfect" tool for the job tho.

Your wants aren't out of the realm of possibility.  The problem with MTs are that manufactures want to cram as many implements as possible into a foldable package.   Yes can openers and bottle openers galore.   

[strmliner]

I absolutely agree with Aloha, Yud, the Captain, Fortytwo and Cody.       Plier-based MUTs are exactly that, a compromise.

Flipperjesus, you will find yourself going through many tools and a bit of money with much aggravation if you try to do everything you mention with a plier-based MUT as your primary tool.  It's really meant to compliment and/or supplement your EDC (ie, your carry).  For smaller tasks, it will probably be all you need.  For larger tasks, get the proper tools.

What you're asking isn't totally unreasonable, but don't bang your head against the all...     The world of MUTs isn't there yet but people around the world are still designing and experimenting.   

[Grant Lamontagne]

The main problem I see is the prying/bending that you want from the knife blade.  There is an oldsaying about how a knife will be the least effective and most expensive pry bar you can own, and it's absolutely true since knife blades are brittle due to the hardening they have to have in order to take and hold a decent edge.

That having been said, most multitools have softer steel than dedicated knives because the manufacturer knows you are going to use it for more prying than a dedicated knife, but you still shouldn't try it as the steel will break and it often will fail catastrophically and possibly injure you or someone else with flying shards of metal.

Have you considered a SOG Powerlock, PowerPlier, Pocket PowerPlier or Paratool?  You can customize the tool load out in those and have exactly what you want and get rid ofwhat you don't.   I would suggest one of those, and maybe fashion a small folding pry bar to fit inside it since blades are not meant for prying.

Def

[Demel]

Maybe try what this guy did

[ReamerPunch]

A small dedicated pry bar would save the blade. Either in a pouch, or with a pocketclip, like Kampfer did.
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=64174.0

[ToolJoe]

A Leatherman Crater C33t/tx, a bit kit, Pocketwrench and a pair of dedicated pliers might be a good group to explore..

[ReamerPunch]

A Leatherman Crater C33t/tx, a bit kit, Pocketwrench and a pair of dedicated pliers might be a good group to explore..

I'm guessing the Pocket Wrench would be too small for him.

[rose63272]

O if kptg

Sent from my SM-T561 using Tapatalk

[Sea Monster]

I feel your pain, often, because I really do want to be batman, and I really REALLY hate walking back for another tool,

However, and it's sort of a "suck it up" for me - the Ole' multi can't do it all.

It's semi-good at semi-lots of things, and I impress the pants off everyone when I can cut a  1 1/2" branch with my wave in moments, or nip up a hose clamp, or tighten some glasses, or do any number of other bodgy jobs.

However, I also have a truck with full service tools for the bigger, more precise, or specific jobs.

Knowing your limits (that's right Batman) and when you've crossed the line is all a part of being a hero, multi-tool user.

To get away from Life Advice from Sea Monster - Some SOG tools can be more or less readily customised for payload, as can Leatherman (with some fiddling and warranty voiding), so perhaps find your "best fit" and then tweak for perfection.