Dumb Questions for the non-native English speakers

[Reinier]

Belgians speak Flemish right? How different is it compared to German or French? Forgive me for asking...


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I call Flemish the less formal version of Dutch.

Less formal? In a way it is more formal.

[glenfiddich1983]

Belgians speak Flemish right? How different is it compared to German or French? Forgive me for asking...


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I call Flemish the less formal version of Dutch.

Less formal? In a way it is more formal.

I see what you mean. It is more formal in the meaning of purity, holding on to traditional words. Which is what I like, to me traditional equals less formal. Also, I think it's a more creative and original language, less subject to the importing of foreign words we the Dutch seem to like so much.

But maybe that's just a weird leap of thoughts, when I read this back.

[Top-Gear-24]

In that case, "he" specifically refers to a man, which could be offensive if the seller is female.  By using "they" instead of "he" or "she" you are making it either plural (as in a team of people) or gender neutral so it could mean he or she.

So, when referring to a specific seller, you would have said "he" if he was male, "she" if the seller was female, or in a general term for any seller or sellers, you would use "they."

I usually don't like to correct folks as I see it as kind of rude, but since this seemed like a question that was being asked I thought that some input from a native English speaker would help. 

Def

This is one of those things I find hard when it's not my native language, I've always been taught "a singular subject takes a singular verb".  In Reinier his sentence "Or maybe ask a foreign seller if they are willing to ship ..." using "they" sounds weird to me, but using "he" also sounds a bit weird, since the subject could be female (guess Reinier also found it a bit strange, since he also had to look it up).  If I typed that sentence I probably would have changed it into "... ask foreign sellers if they are ... " or " ... ask a foreign seller if he or she is ... ", hereby avoiding the problem.

Oh, and this is not about correcting someone, this topic is about language and grammar, that's why I brought this up.  That and the fact that Reinier caught me with my "Live/life" problem  .
In any other topic I wouldn't even notice something like this, but in this case it's "on topic" ( for once  .).

And about the Dutch vs Flemish thing, I wouldn't call either one the more formal, since there are so many different dialects in each language.  I live (please tell me I got it right this time  ) in the provence of Antwerp, and the Flemish we speak here sounds a lot different from the Flemish they speak in the provence of East-Flanders for example.  And the same goes for Dutch in different regions of the Netherlands.

En nu maar hopen dat hier geen fouten instaan, wat best wel eens zou kunnen vermits ik snel moest zijn bij het intypen van mijn reaktie.  Groetjes Noorderburen  .

[Reinier]

Vermits... mooi Vlaams woord

[Aloha]

To all non native speaking members  .  I never struggle to understand anyone one the forum.   

I grew up with a mother who spoke English, Italian. and Spanish.  She and my grandmother spoke Italian when they didn't want us to understand them.  I was unfortunately not taught how to speak Italian for which I've always been a bit sad about. 
I learned Spanish in school and since I live in a state bordered by Mexico it made sense.  When I was working in hotels and restaurants it came in handy.   I was able to speak a less formalized version and became quite fluent.  I have found that over the years having been out of that industry I am more conversational in Spanish. 
There is a large population of Tagalog speakers here in my city.  I wish I could speak that language.  My older brother can speak 6 or 7 languages conversationally.  He's probably most fluent in Spanish and German. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

In that case, "he" specifically refers to a man, which could be offensive if the seller is female.  By using "they" instead of "he" or "she" you are making it either plural (as in a team of people) or gender neutral so it could mean he or she.

So, when referring to a specific seller, you would have said "he" if he was male, "she" if the seller was female, or in a general term for any seller or sellers, you would use "they."

I usually don't like to correct folks as I see it as kind of rude, but since this seemed like a question that was being asked I thought that some input from a native English speaker would help. 

Def

This is one of those things I find hard when it's not my native language, I've always been taught "a singular subject takes a singular verb".  In Reinier his sentence "Or maybe ask a foreign seller if they are willing to ship ..." using "they" sounds weird to me, but using "he" also sounds a bit weird, since the subject could be female (guess Reinier also found it a bit strange, since he also had to look it up).  If I typed that sentence I probably would have changed it into "... ask foreign sellers if they are ... " or " ... ask a foreign seller if he or she is ... ", hereby avoiding the problem.

Oh, and this is not about correcting someone, this topic is about language and grammar, that's why I brought this up.  That and the fact that Reinier caught me with my "Live/life" problem  .
In any other topic I wouldn't even notice something like this, but in this case it's "on topic" ( for once  .).

And about the Dutch vs Flemish thing, I wouldn't call either one the more formal, since there are so many different dialects in each language.  I live (please tell me I got it right this time  ) in the provence of Antwerp, and the Flemish we speak here sounds a lot different from the Flemish they speak in the provence of East-Flanders for example.  And the same goes for Dutch in different regions of the Netherlands.

En nu maar hopen dat hier geen fouten instaan, wat best wel eens zou kunnen vermits ik snel moest zijn bij het intypen van mijn reaktie.  Groetjes Noorderburen  .

You are absolutely correct on the Live/Life thing.  Live is generally the verb, while Life is the noun, as in the phrase "Live Life To The Fullest."  It doesn't work the other way around. 

And yes. "her or she" is just as good as saying "they" in that situation.  The traditional way of saying it was "he" or "him" and stems from the days when you would just assume that everyone you dealt with, were dealing with and always would deal with were men.  While society may have evolved to have gender neutrality in many things, language hasn't quite caught up yet, and so "they" started being used as a gender neutral term in addition to being plural, especially when space or time is limited and you don't want or need to say "he or she."

I wouldn't say that "they" in that instance is formally correct, but it is certainly acceptable in any and all situations that I can think of, except perhaps in a Throne Speech to or from the Queen.  She and I don't talk as often these days, so its really not much of an issue, at least for me.

As I was raised in the military I went to school with kids from different countries, especially when I was living on training bases.  Since my father was an administrator he was often sent to training facilities, and I remember the day a Dutch kid and his younger sister arrived in our school, neither of whom spoke English.  I seem to recall one day he looked very confused, but within almost no time he and his sister seemed very fluent in English, almost like the English Language was downloaded from the Matrix straight into his brain- it just look a couple of weeks because the Matrix still used tape drives in those days.... 

There were other Dutch kids in the school, which was kind of amazing as that was a very small base, and there weren't a lot of foreign students there.  In fact, the only other foreign students I recall were the other Dutch family!  To this day I still have no idea how much help the other Dutch kids were to this new kid and his sister- I imagine they were, but I don't recall seeing them hanging around each other much, but then this was also 35ish years ago....

The new Dutch kid and I became friends, and to this day I still enjoy seeing his exploits on Facebook- I guess it is good for some things!  He and his sister tried to teach me some Dutch, but to be honest I was then (and still am) too scatterbrained to remember any of it except "Ik spreek Nederlands" which I think means "I speak Dutch" which is about the most useless phrase I could have retained considering I don't know anything else at all.....   

I see a situation like this arising if I ever go to Holland!



Def

[nicolaeb]

I'm from Romania , I learned English language starting with primary school , in ' 80s , in comunist era , mandatory it was French as well and you could choose German. We done some Greek antique and Latin. Back in that times we didn't use any of the foreign languages other than school and all of that because of the fact that we was not allowed to travel abroad, it was only a TV programme and Ceaușescu it was all the time on it , no Internet, lol of course . When I finished my maritime college and I start to work as a ordinary seaman on the boats I discovered that the English that I was learned in school it was good for something. After revolution from 1989 we discovered English tv channels, English music  later on Internet, I was adult all ready and it wasn't fun to learn the basics of the Internet on the beginning  ,I didn't grow up with the new tehnologie, you just need to adapt in order to survive lol .My language is a Latin language so I can understand Italian, Spanish,Portuguese but don't put me to speak lol. When we moved in Wales 4 years ago we discovered that the English language that we learn in school me and my wife was absolutely rubbish lol. Here we started to adapt and learn the accent and slangs .For my kids it was easy especially for my little daughter who was 5 years old and she basically started the school here. We're all ready struggling to understand her now some times because she started to forget romanian language and in the house she's doing conversations in English mixed with romanian. Because of the fact that romanian language is a Latin language all the gramatical part is opposite of gramatical English and she's doing a lot of funny gramatical mistakes in romanian language as we definitely do in English. She's the one that correct us now when we're speaking in English. So yeah in life you need to adapt in order to survive. 

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[Etherealicer]

IMHO English is a rather easy language to learn (at least for Europeans). Mostly, because everybody is quite exposed to it. Computers / Internet / TV-Shows / Books / Computer Games etc. It is really hard to never use English. So the combination of learning English in school but also using it in everyday life gives a great boost to our learning.

I would consider myself fluent in Swiss German, English and German
a good deal less fluent in French
I can understand Dutch fairly well but do not speak or write it.
Latin is a long way back but I still can understand some, so when reading I usually can figure out the overall meaning.
I know the Russian and Greek alphabet (although it is fading), so I can understand some words (this is actually much easier for Russian as many words resemble German or French).
I remember very little from my Thai class... "Taa daa rot fai" oh and I can spot the chicken on a Thai menu

Also, I have never learned Spanish or Italian but usually get the gist of a conversation.

[Ron Who]

Polyglots and multitools go together very well it seems.

[ThePeacent]

Well I grew up in a Spanish and Catalan speaking family, so those were my childhood languages. At age 10 I started studying English at school and quickly went to the "higher level" class with the most capable learners, I got to represent my School (3000 students school, a big one) at the National English Speakers Challenge when I was 16, and after that I started to learn German.

Being very similar to Catalan, I can understand and speak a bit of French and Italian. I am fluent in English and quite good in comparison to my friends and similar aged people because during and after school I read lots of English books, watched American and British TV shows and films and got caught later on on many forums when the thing started to become popular, learning more English through that.

Nowadays I can understand and speak basic German, French, and quite good English, while fluently do both in Catalan and Spanish. I'd love to learn more Latin and Greek (only did two courses of both) because I love learning the origin of words, etymology and Classical Culture
Forums and the worldwide net they build is awesome and a true advance in the globalisation of English and cultural exchange and diversity, just look at this awesome place you built here Grant, with people from all continents joined together by a common passion.

So nice to have you here and be among you!   

[kkokkolis]

Is there a list somewhere about the country origins of active members? Like they show you on Blogger?
Native English speakers (Great Britain, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa) are the vast majority here and that's understandable. We have many from continental Europe (I would expect more Swiss for obvious reasons) but French people aren't that active (and they have relative products there). On the other hand, the populous countries of Central and South America, China, Indochina, India, Indonesia, Korea and Japan, the Arab AfroAsia are underepresented here. It might be a cultural or a linguistic barrier, or both (excluding India and half of Africa, where they are fluent in English, as much as Cypriots are).
Regarding the cultural factors I expect internet availability to play a role but I wonder if they value SAKs, multitools and the likes there. I know Arabs love blades.
If anyone knows of a French speaking forum of our interests, please, share a link. I would like to familiarize with their approach (and peep on some custom Opinels).

[osasmudj]

Thanx Grant Lamontagne for helping me with that link.

[Ron Who]

The visitor map on SAKcollector-dot-com shows where we some of us are.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Is there a list somewhere about the country origins of active members? Like they show you on Blogger?
Native English speakers (Great Britain, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa) are the vast majority here and that's understandable. We have many from continental Europe (I would expect more Swiss for obvious reasons) but French people aren't that active (and they have relative products there). On the other hand, the populous countries of Central and South America, China, Indochina, India, Indonesia, Korea and Japan, the Arab AfroAsia are underepresented here. It might be a cultural or a linguistic barrier, or both (excluding India and half of Africa, where they are fluent in English, as much as Cypriots are).
Regarding the cultural factors I expect internet availability to play a role but I wonder if they value SAKs, multitools and the likes there. I know Arabs love blades.
If anyone knows of a French speaking forum of our interests, please, share a link. I would like to familiarize with their approach (and peep on some custom Opinels).

We had the Member Map for a while, but that seems to have been broken somewhat recently in a software upgrade.  I am not sure what happened to it, but I believe it still exists, it just isn't functional or visible at the moment.

Of course, that just shows where people are now, and I can think of a few members that are living in countries that they didn't start in, so I am not sure how much that would help.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Thanx Grant Lamontagne for helping me with that link.

No problem at all!  Glad to help!

Def

[Poncho65]

[quote Grant Lamontagne although I have to wonder if English is going to give way to Emojis next!   

Def
[/quote]



 

[Poncho65]

If not for the flags beside your names I would assume you all spoke a English as your first language if that is any consolation

[Poncho65]

If not for the flags beside your names I would assume you all spoke a English as your first language if that is any consolation

And I even don't think of this sometimes even knowing where you all are from

[ColoSwiss]

The U S government uses something called the Interagency Language Roundtable Scale to rate foreign language ability. I had a couple of years of German in school and may have a low-end level 1 command of that language (on a good day). It has proved useful on trips to Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale

[Corwyn]

I found English to be a very very easy language... learned the basics from Cartoon Network and MTV ... also learned a lot from school.

I learned German from Sat1 and RTL cartoons and Bavarian erotics pictures later.

I learned Italian from cartoons on Canale 5 and Italia 1.

I learned French from comics.

Overall I am quite fluent in Romanian (native), English, French, Italian and German.

I also can understand Spanish and Dutch, a bit of Russian, a bit of Hungarian and a bit of Japanese.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I found English to be a very very easy language... learned the basics from Cartoon Network and MTV ... also learned a lot from school.

I learned German from Sat1 and RTL cartoons and Bavarian erotics pictures later.

I learned Italian from cartoons on Canale 5 and Italia 1.

I learned French from comics.

Overall I am quite fluent in Romanian (native), English, French, Italian and German.

I also can understand Spanish and Dutch, a bit of Russian, a bit of Hungarian and a bit of Japanese.

Ok, when I tour Europe I am bringing you along....

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

The U S government uses something called the Interagency Language Roundtable Scale to rate foreign language ability. I had a couple of years of German in school and may have a low-end level 1 command of that language (on a good day). It has proved useful on trips to Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale

Interesting link- thanks!

Def

[Gerhard Gerber]

My home language is Afrikaans.

I had a basic command of English before school, picked up thanks to pestering my parents about what was being said on TV.

From a certain point in school English was a mandatory second language.

Depending on dialect and the person speaking I can follow 50-70% of German conversation, and if needs be I can speak a little.

Always figured I'm just a German girlfriend and some pillow talk away from passable German.

English is now our national language, also the language of my entertainment, the language I learn in, and my connection with the rest of the world.

I saw advertisements for an app that teaches you Spanish, I'm tempted as a mental exercise even though I have zero use for Spanish....

[AlephZero]

Began studying English at 3rd grade, Swedish (which is mandatory foreign language in Finland) at 7th grade and German in high school. Apart from that I've studied Japanese as a hobby over the years since I was 15 years old (It's an on-off hobby, so I keep forgetting everything I learn ) and Finnish Sign Language for few years (my ex-fiancee is deaf).

Only really fluent in Finnish (naturally) and English.


 

[ThePeacent]

I found English to be a very very easy language... learned the basics from Cartoon Network and MTV ... also learned a lot from school.

I learned German from Sat1 and RTL cartoons and Bavarian erotics pictures later.

I learned Italian from cartoons on Canale 5 and Italia 1.

I learned French from comics.

Overall I am quite fluent in Romanian (native), English, French, Italian and German.

I also can understand Spanish and Dutch, a bit of Russian, a bit of Hungarian and a bit of Japanese.

I also had my dose of English watching Cartoon Network! 

[Mechanickal]

En nu maar hopen dat hier geen fouten instaan, wat best wel eens zou kunnen vermits ik snel moest zijn bij het intypen van mijn reaktie.  Groetjes Noorderburen  .

Reactie...

Yes you're that old

[carboncopy101]

Filipino here. Learned english because we use to have this encyclopedia set and I don't have anything to do, I was a kid.  Thankfully, it was part of our education. Learned it thanks to my mom and grandparents! 
The process was more of repeating trial and error. I listened to conversations, ask what they meant, and practised. It was good to have a dictionary, very handy. The hard part is starting to think in English. What I mean is removing the translating part filipino>english. There is a delay, and sometimes I feel it and its kinda annoying.

Learning english is very handy since it's a universal language. If not for it, I won't be here. 

I speak filipino, I understand some sub-dialects of filipino, spanish, and english. 

[Corwyn]

I found English to be a very very easy language... learned the basics from Cartoon Network and MTV ... also learned a lot from school.

I learned German from Sat1 and RTL cartoons and Bavarian erotics pictures later.

I learned Italian from cartoons on Canale 5 and Italia 1.

I learned French from comics.

Overall I am quite fluent in Romanian (native), English, French, Italian and German.

I also can understand Spanish and Dutch, a bit of Russian, a bit of Hungarian and a bit of Japanese.

Ok, when I tour Europe I am bringing you along....

Def

Hehe... my pleasure. As long as I can bypass wifey.

Really English is fine anywhere in Europe, in the bigger cities... pretty much everybody speaks it fluently.

German was really useful when I stayed in a village between Frankfurt and Giessen.. nice people but didnt understand a word in English.

In Paris, they understand English but using French was the difference between "we only have one, take it or leave it. costs 150 Euros" and "just choose which one you want, I recommend this other one and I'll sell it to you for 20 Euros"

[Sea Monster]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

[dks]

Say Colonel    no, that is not how you say it