Red headed executive step child?

[cbl51]

Okay, its been on my mind for a long while, and I have to ask;

Why is the executive the red headed step child of the Victorinox line up?

There's hardly an Academy Spots, R.E.I., Dick's, Bass Pro, Eastern Mountain Sports, Orvis, let alone Walmart or Target that you can't pick up a Classic, tinker, recruit, and some of the larger models. Heck, the local sports stores have the classic and recruit for almost the same price in the bulk blister package.

But try to find an executive someplace.

I know that for many years, that fact kept me from having one, the fact that I had to order a knife sight unseen, no idea how it would be in real life, and it costs almost three times what a common classic does. Its like a best kept secret from Victorinox, that they don't really want the world to know about and experience what a great pocket knife the executive is. Like its a hidden asset known only to the devout SAK fans. For the ordinary guy looking for a SAK of modest size, its not available out there. But the public is clobbered with classics. Last time we were at Mammoth Lake, California for the trout fishing, even the souvenir store had real Victorinox classics with the Mammoth Lake logo on them. At the Yellowstone Lodge in Yellowstone National Park, there were souvenir real Vic classics with the appropriate logo. Even my wife's company gave out the classics with he corporate logo on them as freebies.

I've never seen an executive in any retail store in my memory. Tons of classics, lots of recruits in blister packages, zip on the executive. Same for the Ambassador, an executive "Light".

Why???

[Mechanickal]

The 74mm lineup in general doesn't really get all that much love apart from the collectors.

I was sceptical about it myself untill I actually held one.

Maybe that's the problem? Too many sellers who sell, but don't try?

[AimlessWanderer]

The 74mm line for me, is too big for keys, and too small as a "pocket knife". While the blade may well be able to handle most of my needs, I feel more equipped for life's challenges with an 84mm.

While your default setting was a peanut, so the 74mm line is not too dissimilar, my default setting is the "farmer's knives" slipjoints, which is more similar to the 84mm-91mm line blades.

The 74mm blade seems to be a compromise that I don't need to make, and which offers me no benefit in return. They are like 3/4 length trousers. I either want full length or shorts, not something between the two.

I have tried a Director, Money Clip, and Cigar Cutter in the past, and felt underwhelmed by them. I now own a brand new Executive, and that's never been carried either. Given the choice of a Climber/Traveler or Executive, I'll go for the Climber/Traveller every time. That's not to say I have anything against the Exec, I just find the larger knives to be a better fit for me.

If I was in formal attire, and just needed a small knife for a waistcoat pocket, the Executive would look more appealing, but it would still likely be second fiddle to my brushed stainless Pocket Tool Chest.

[AimlessWanderer]

Further to my first post, here's a pic (attached) for perspective.

Top to bottom...

1) My first proper pocket knife. This set my expectation of what a pocket knife should be capable of.

2) A barlow is the smallest traditional slippy that I tend to carry with any regularity.

3) An 85mm Traveller is a good fit with what I expect from a pocket knife

4) The Executive is quite a large step down, and while it can cut up an apple, it's easier with the larger knives.

5) Pen knives are another long standing feature in my life, but as more of a desk knife than a pocket knife. I don't tend to carry one, unless I have specific need to carry less than normal.

6) The Wenger Pocket Tool Chest is the upper end of the keyring range for me, but carries great in a waistcoat pocket, with no significant lack of capability from the Executive.

Of those options, the Executive is the one I would reach for last. For me, there's simply no reason to choose that instead of one of the others.

[Aloha]

I'd blame Vic.  Looking at SakWiki theres 13 74mm SAKs and 3 75mm SAKs.  Not a ton of variety either.  I think in terms of Classic vs 74mm the Classic is made in way more numbers alone than likely the whole 74mm and 75mm line together  . 

Lot more loose in the wild means its likely bought by more than just knife people.  The Classic also comes is a wide range of scales designs so it'll appeal to a wider audience. 

[Pop]

I think the tool selection may be partially to blame. If the nail file or orange peeler was replaced by a wenger style combo tool I believe it would have a lot higher sales. Im a fan of the size personally. The heavier backspring (over a 58mm) gives it more of a "real knife" feel to me.

[Gareth]

I liked the Executive well enough but I traded it away a few years ago.  As Pop says; I wasn't in love with the tool selection.  The Ambassador on the other hand I still like very much.  The scissors and nail file are no better than that of a Classic but, unlike Al, I do find the extra length in the blade and handle to be significant enough to be worth it.  I'm happy enough putting it on my keys as well. 

[cody6268]

Provided, my Walmart now only carries the Classic, and my Lowe's now carries zero Vics (when they used to have the Recruit and Classic SD, as well as plenty of budget Case models); but given, when I was last in Bristol, TN/VA I noticed Bass Pro, Cabela's, and Dick's almost all had Fieldmaster/Huntsman, Camper, Spartan/Tinker, Classic SD, and Recruit. I know Bass Pro had carded Trekkers.  My small, local cutlery store does carry the Executive.

I think it's due to cost. The Executive is often as much as a Huntsman. I guess these are what Vic chooses in the carded lineup are good value for the money. And honestly, at $15 for a Classic SD, you can't go wrong. I recently picked up my second Recruit at Tractor Supply for ten bucks. Too bad Vic doesn't start making the Alox version again.

[kamakiri]

Not enough tool selection and features for me to choose it over 58mm knives. A Midnight Minichamp gives me what I want in a keychain tool with the exception of pliers.

My only planned 74mm mod is a Moneyclip Executive. I was gonna do it last week when I found a crack in the donor clip by the rivet. 

And when that’s done it’ll only get use when I need to be in a suit.

[nate j]

Why is the executive the red headed step child of the Victorinox line up?

I think you have largely answered your own question...

...it costs almost three times what a common classic does...

...and more than many 2-4 layer 84mm or 91mm SAKs.


Those who want a SAK model to collect may be likely to choose the Classic, as it offers the most variety in scales at the lowest cost.  For a business looking for advertising knives or a tourist destination looking to sell souvenirs, minimizing cost per unit is the key, so they often choose the least expensive option, the Classic.  Perhaps another consideration for some is that a Classic is legal to carry essentially anywhere that any knife whatsoever is legal to carry.

Big box stores are volume-driven, i.e. they want to carry items they can buy and sell in huge quantities, not specialty or niche items.

Finally, too many choices can actually make consumers less likely to buy anything at all; or if they do buy something, they may be less satisfied with their decision.  (see https://hbr.org/2006/06/more-isnt-always-better )    I believe this has changed now (and not for the better), but for years my local Walmart could be relied upon to have exactly two SAK models in stock:  the Classic and the Super Tinker.  You want a small, inexpensive SAK that can fit on your key chain?  Get the Classic.  You want a full-size, full-featured (relative to the Classic, anyway) SAK?  Get the Super Tinker.  Either way, buy it and go home happy and secure in your choice, not second-guessing whether you really got the best SAK for you.

[nate j]

The 74mm blade seems to be a compromise that I don't need to make, and which offers me no benefit in return. They are like 3/4 length trousers. I either want full length or shorts, not something between the two.

 

[Reinier]

^^^ well said Al!

But regardless, I have a thing for 74mm SAKs (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=40930.0) and the Executive is one of my favorites. I never understood why it's always been so overpriced

[Nix]

The Ambassador is the real redheaded step-child. Brilliant little knife, but hard to find and I've never met a person who has one.

The 74mm size seems to me to strike a balance between size and utility. If I were going to hike the AT, the Ambassador would make my short list of knives to carry. Ounce for ounce a lot of knife....and very few ounces.

[gene stoner]

Further to my first post, here's a pic (attached) for perspective.

Top to bottom...

1) My first proper pocket knife. This set my expectation of what a pocket knife should be capable of.

2) A barlow is the smallest traditional slippy that I tend to carry with any regularity.

3) An 85mm Traveller is a good fit with what I expect from a pocket knife

4) The Executive is quite a large step down, and while it can cut up an apple, it's easier with the larger knives.

5) Pen knives are another long standing feature in my life, but as more of a desk knife than a pocket knife. I don't tend to carry one, unless I have specific need to carry less than normal.

6) The Wenger Pocket Tool Chest is the upper end of the keyring range for me, but carries great in a waistcoat pocket, with no significant lack of capability from the Executive.

Of those options, the Executive is the one I would reach for last. For me, there's simply no reason to choose that instead of one of the others.

 

[Huntsman]

Some good debate going on here - Great comments everyone.
.... And I'm sure there is a "We love the Executive" thread somewhere.

However - Not too many takers in this thread for the Exec CBL.   
I have an older one, and am very happpy to have it in the kit bag/collection - But I have only carried it once!,   

I agree with with pretty much everything AW said - and he summed it up perfectly for me with a wonderful metaphor:
Which had me smiling out loud!

The 74mm blade seems to be a compromise that I don't need to make, and which offers me no benefit in return.
They are like 3/4 length trousers. I either want full length or shorts, not something between the two.

[Aloha]

He does have a way with words.   .

[Jazz]

Personally, since I started carrying and using mine, I love it. The large blade is stronger than the Classic size. I can cut apples just fine with it. I just cut chunks off the apple. Why do you need to cut one in half? Cut a chunk, eat it, cut another. It's got two screwdrivers. It feels good in the hand.Scissors are a nice size. You can cut things you wouldn't with the wee serrated edge on the orange peeler. I don't intend to stop using mine. Now, I want an Ambassador too. Like a Classic, but in a proper size.

I didn't really answer your question, cbl51, but your posts got me thinking about what I really need, and I've grown to love this knife. Great to carry with another larger one, too.

[pfrsantos]

I carry one on a regular basis, but don't really use it much. The larger blade can be used for food prep, but requires some patience and dexterity for some tasks. I love the nail file, for me it's the best Vic makes. The orange peeler is a great screwdriver.

I prefer to have a slightly bigger folder paired with the Midnite Manager.

For a more formal occasion, I would carry the Director instead.

 

[ElevenBlade]

I think you have largely answered your own question...

...and more than many 2-4 layer 84mm or 91mm SAKs.


Those who want a SAK model to collect may be likely to choose the Classic, as it offers the most variety in scales at the lowest cost.  For a business looking for advertising knives or a tourist destination looking to sell souvenirs, minimizing cost per unit is the key, so they often choose the least expensive option, the Classic.  Perhaps another consideration for some is that a Classic is legal to carry essentially anywhere that any knife whatsoever is legal to carry.

Big box stores are volume-driven, i.e. they want to carry items they can buy and sell in huge quantities, not specialty or niche items.

Finally, too many choices can actually make consumers less likely to buy anything at all; or if they do buy something, they may be less satisfied with their decision.  (see https://hbr.org/2006/06/more-isnt-always-better )    I believe this has changed now (and not for the better), but for years my local Walmart could be relied upon to have exactly two SAK models in stock:  the Classic and the Super Tinker.  You want a small, inexpensive SAK that can fit on your key chain?  Get the Classic.  You want a full-size, full-featured (relative to the Classic, anyway) SAK?  Get the Super Tinker.  Either way, buy it and go home happy and secure in your choice, not second-guessing whether you really got the best SAK for you.

Interesting stuff here - and on everyone elses posts.

CBL, after reading your posts, I gave the Exec a lot of thought - almost bought one online.   But as others have said, it's tool selection stopped me in my tracks. 

What I liked about it (in theory)
- two blades that approximate a pen knife style is something I really like. 
- scissors
- 3mm SD
- overall size


What I didn't like (in theory)
- I can't see myself appreciating a benefit from the orange peeler tool.  I'm sure it works as a serrated blade, but it doesn't seem like a good use of real estate.
- That smurfin' file - its a full-length nail grooming tool without any additional versatility.  On the off chance I need to work on a sharp corner of a nail, I can manage that with scissors.

So overall - an entire full-sized layer of tools in such a compact knife is a deal-breaker for me.

I'd much sooner carry the Secretary. 

[Don Pablo]

Interesting stuff here - and on everyone elses posts.

CBL, after reading your posts, I gave the Exec a lot of thought - almost bought one online.   But as others have said, it's tool selection stopped me in my tracks. 

What I liked about it (in theory)
- two blades that approximate a pen knife style is something I really like. 
- scissors
- 3mm SD
- overall size


What I didn't like (in theory)
- I can't see myself appreciating a benefit from the orange peeler tool.  I'm sure it works as a serrated blade, but it doesn't seem like a good use of real estate.
- That smurfin' file - its a full-length nail grooming tool without any additional versatility.  On the off chance I need to work on a sharp corner of a nail, I can manage that with scissors.

So overall - an entire full-sized layer of tools in such a compact knife is a deal-breaker for me.

I'd much sooner carry the Secretary. 

It doesn't have the small blade, but what about the Ambassador?

[Aloha]

Funny thing is the 74mm should be a great in-between SAK.  I had an Executive but sent it in a trade.  I cannot quite get a handle on why it left me flat. 

I liked it but not enough to keep it.  I'd need to try to recall why it never stuck with me.  The Pocket Tool Chest to me is a better option.  I think it was more a matter of what been said, there are better options not that the tool is bad. 

[ElevenBlade]

It doesn't have the small blade, but what about the Ambassador?

 

[Huntsman]

Oh - And I forgot to mention ..... SAKWiki even says this:

"The Victorinox 74mm series is not that well known today, but has a long history."

This comment was there before my time and I did not alter it even though I was kinda surprised by it!
However your observations back this up CBL and everybody else's too.

I want to like/carry that family more - But I can't!

One other interesting thing I discovered recently:
The scissors and blade on the Golf Tool are from the 74mm range
And also earlier.
The blade on the Swisscard is also the same length - But thinner - And in the original version even had the tang and hole in the blade end - concealed  in the plastic handle!!

[nate j]

In defense of the 74mm line, I will say the following:

• I think the Director and the Cigar Cutter (both sadly discontinued) are some of most elegant knives Vic ever made, and either would be at home in any suit or tux pocket.
• 74mm is definitely the right size knife for some.  My grandfather, though not a SAK guy nor a knife knut, always had a knife in his pocket.  It was always a small stockman or pen knife, about three inches closed, and with it he cut bait for fishing, opened all manner of packages, and took care of any other cutting chores that arose.  If he would have carried a SAK, I think it would have been a 74mm.
• With US paper currency having a width of 2.61 inches, 74mm is the perfect size for the Money Clip.
• While it is not something I personally would be comfortable with, if outdoorsmen such as Chuck Yeager are willing to go into the back country for weeks at a time with no knife but an Executive, perhaps I am failing to appreciate the full capability and potential of 74mm SAKs.

[JK]

Provided, my Walmart now only carries the Classic, and my Lowe's now carries zero Vics (when they used to have the Recruit and Classic SD, as well as plenty of budget Case models); but given, when I was last in Bristol, TN/VA I noticed Bass Pro, Cabela's, and Dick's almost all had Fieldmaster/Huntsman, Camper, Spartan/Tinker, Classic SD, and Recruit. I know Bass Pro had carded Trekkers.  My small, local cutlery store does carry the Executive.

I think it's due to cost. The Executive is often as much as a Huntsman. I guess these are what Vic chooses in the carded lineup are good value for the money. And honestly, at $15 for a Classic SD, you can't go wrong. I recently picked up my second Recruit at Tractor Supply for ten bucks. Too bad Vic doesn't start making the Alox version again.

Cost is crazy. Here Spartan and Classic are around £12-15, Pioneer around £20-24, and Tourist and Executive around £30.

[ElevenBlade]

Cost is crazy. Here Spartan and Classic are around £12-15, Pioneer around £20-24, and Tourist and Executive around £30.

Id bet that's part of the problem - even if you want one, you'd think twice about the extra cost. 

[Aloha]

Perceived value?  At 74mms seems some feel the knife doesn't measure up to the 84mm or 91mm. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Perceived value?  At 74mms seems some feel the knife doesn't measure up to the 84mm or 91mm.

Hit the nail on the head! You can get more knife, for less money, in the same brand.

At knivesandtools.co.uk an Executive is currently on offer at £29.40. For the same money or less, you have a choice of Climber, Huntsman, Mountaineer, Fieldmaster, and Super Tinker. I would choose any of those over the Executive. At the full price of £35 for an Executive, you have the additional alternative choice of Evo 14, Fisherman, Explorer, Compact, Evo 18, and Ranger. For most people, I think the Executive would look like poor value for money alongside those other knives.

[kamakiri]

In defense of the 74mm line, I will say the following:

• I think the Director and the Cigar Cutter (both sadly discontinued) are some of most elegant knives Vic ever made, and either would be at home in any suit or tux pocket.
• With US paper currency having a width of 2.61 inches, 74mm is the perfect size for the Money Clip.

Good points and why I use the money clip. And why I want the Executive/Money clip mod. Also why I have Directors in the collection. Just beautiful with the engine turned scales.

It’s too bad that the Directors didn’t have the money clip...perhaps another mod to make if I find the right Director donor.

[Steelej1976]

Further to my first post, here's a pic (attached) for perspective.

Top to bottom...

1) My first proper pocket knife. This set my expectation of what a pocket knife should be capable of.

2) A barlow is the smallest traditional slippy that I tend to carry with any regularity.

3) An 85mm Traveller is a good fit with what I expect from a pocket knife

4) The Executive is quite a large step down, and while it can cut up an apple, it's easier with the larger knives.

5) Pen knives are another long standing feature in my life, but as more of a desk knife than a pocket knife. I don't tend to carry one, unless I have specific need to carry less than normal.

6) The Wenger Pocket Tool Chest is the upper end of the keyring range for me, but carries great in a waistcoat pocket, with no significant lack of capability from the Executive.

Of those options, the Executive is the one I would reach for last. For me, there's simply no reason to choose that instead of one of the others.