Multitool.org Forum
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


Shame on Victorinox . . .

us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Shame on Victorinox . . .
on: September 17, 2024, 08:39:13 PM
 . . .  for discontinuing the glorious Manager.   :dunno:

Yes, its been a while.  But grief is a long process.  It rears its ugly head when you least expect it.

It just proves my thesis yet again - that Victorinox, Leatherman and other manufacturers of awesome SAKs and MTs exist not to make great SAKs and MTs, but to make money for the shareholders.

Often this benefits us greatly - but other times, it results in the untimely loss of a trusted friend.


Victorinox Manager.
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


us Offline G-Dizzle

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,483
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #1 on: September 17, 2024, 08:52:56 PM
I was on the hunt for a manager before finding a good deal on a minichamp. Wanted the pen but had more use for tweezers than the little flashlight, as I always carry a separate flashlight. The only model with the light that appealed to me was the red light for maintaining night vision but still would prefer tweezers.
 
IMG_5876.jpg
* IMG_5876.jpg (Filesize: 241.99 KB)


us Offline gustophersmob

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,334
  • <><
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #2 on: September 17, 2024, 09:20:16 PM
. . .  for discontinuing the glorious Manager.   :dunno:

Yes, its been a while.  But grief is a long process.  It rears its ugly head when you least expect it.

It just proves my thesis yet again - that Victorinox, Leatherman and other manufacturers of awesome SAKs and MTs exist not to make great SAKs and MTs, but to make money for the shareholders.

Often this benefits us greatly - but other times, it results in the untimely loss of a trusted friend.

(Image removed from quote.)
Victorinox Manager.

I know its not really the point you're making, but I believe Victorinox is a privately owned company.  Their history suggests they prioritize maintaining their employees over short-term, unsustainable growth and profits.
If the trees blew down the wind and no one was around, would the alphabet song really go backwards?


ch Offline Sneider

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,369
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #3 on: September 17, 2024, 10:57:04 PM
Yes, that's really sad. The Manager is always on my keys and is therefore the knife/tool ​​I carry most often. I got a spare, also spare ballpoint pens.

I've listed my personal favorite Victorinox models (to carry and collect):

58mm Manager
58mm Signature
84mm Pocket Pal/Excelsior/Secretary
84mm Cadet
84mm Voyageur
84mm Tinker Small
84mm Salesman (Super Tinker Small)
93mm Solo
93mm Settler
93mm Farmer
93mm Harvester

Almost all of them discontinued
If you want to be happy, be.
(Leo Tolstoy)


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #4 on: September 18, 2024, 12:51:19 AM
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


us Offline Swisster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 291
  • Ambassador of SAK's
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #5 on: September 18, 2024, 04:54:00 AM
I think the Midnight Manager is still being made but way over priced for what it is. Glad I have this Manager on my keyring.       :woohoo:


us Offline nate j

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,342
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #6 on: September 18, 2024, 03:15:34 PM
I know its not really the point you're making, but I believe Victorinox is a privately owned company.  Their history suggests they prioritize maintaining their employees over short-term, unsustainable growth and profits.

Yes, I agree that long-term viability of the company is Vic’s main goal.

It’s still disappointing when one of your favorite models gets discontinued, though, even if you believe it was done for sound business reasons.

I do think it is prudent to lay in a lifetime supply of your favorite model(s) as possible, so you’ll never have to go without even if they get discontinued.

I’m also hoping that this Vic custom shop thing becomes a reality.


us Offline gustophersmob

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,334
  • <><
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #7 on: September 18, 2024, 04:49:07 PM
Yes, I agree that long-term viability of the company is Vic’s main goal.

It’s still disappointing when one of your favorite models gets discontinued, though, even if you believe it was done for sound business reasons.

I do think it is prudent to lay in a lifetime supply of your favorite model(s) as possible, so you’ll never have to go without even if they get discontinued.

I’m also hoping that this Vic custom shop thing becomes a reality.

 :iagree:

Though, since my edc is a pioneer, a lifetime supply is basically one*  :P


*assuming I don't lose it
If the trees blew down the wind and no one was around, would the alphabet song really go backwards?


us Offline nate j

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,342
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #8 on: September 18, 2024, 06:41:25 PM
:iagree:

Though, since my edc is a pioneer, a lifetime supply is basically one*  :P


*assuming I don't lose it

Well, assuming good quality tools to begin with, and that one doesn’t break the tool in an emergency or doing something stupid, I would guess loss is the most common reason for needing to replace a tool.

Depending on how much the blade(s) get used, I could see them getting worn down over years (decades?) of use and sharpening.

YMMV, but I usually consider three to be a lifetime supply for knives/MTs.


us Offline gustophersmob

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,334
  • <><
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #9 on: September 18, 2024, 07:11:07 PM
Well, assuming good quality tools to begin with, and that one doesn’t break the tool in an emergency or doing something stupid, I would guess loss is the most common reason for needing to replace a tool.

Depending on how much the blade(s) get used, I could see them getting worn down over years (decades?) of use and sharpening.

YMMV, but I usually consider three to be a lifetime supply for knives/MTs.

Yeah, I have more than one.  My comment was mainly tongue-in-cheek.
If the trees blew down the wind and no one was around, would the alphabet song really go backwards?


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #10 on: September 18, 2024, 07:26:20 PM
Yeah I have enough SAKs for about 200 lifetimes - and I mean that literally.  I have a few Managers in the stable too.  Its just sad to see a good one go away.  But we should be used to it now.  Same thing goes on a Leatherman and elsewhere.  It is the circle of life.

:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


us Offline Farmer X

  • *
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 10,696
  • Master of the unexciting
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #11 on: September 19, 2024, 02:37:57 AM
I do think it is prudent to lay in a lifetime supply of your favorite model(s) as possible, so you’ll never have to go without even if they get discontinued.
I am very likely to do that with Alox Bantams, even though my old Super Tinker is hardly the worse for wear after over 12 years of carry. And I've learned another lesson: after Swiss Knife Shop does a run of "exclusive" Alox Bantams, that's it. So I'll be ordering more than just two next time.
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #12 on: September 19, 2024, 01:54:47 PM
I will buy a few MTs or SAKs that are about to be discontinued or seem to be on the endangered species list, even if I don't particularly like them - like the Leatherman OHT, Crunch or Free P4.  Once they are gone, they are generally gone forever, and I want to have a few in the Special Reserve Collection.
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


us Offline G-Dizzle

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,483
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #13 on: September 19, 2024, 02:05:20 PM
I will buy a few MTs or SAKs that are about to be discontinued or seem to be on the endangered species list, even if I don't particularly like them - like the Leatherman OHT, Crunch or Free P4.  Once they are gone, they are generally gone forever, and I want to have a few in the Special Reserve Collection.

Wishing I had done this with the Crunch. Should have known how hard they would be to find after. I actually traded my OHT to BPRoberts recently. Just never saw any carry time outside of a challenge and a couple days or so.


us Offline BPRoberts

  • *
  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,164
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #14 on: September 19, 2024, 03:11:57 PM
I picked up what could probably 2 or 3 lifetimes worth of Executives when they were discontinued. Debating doing the same with Rebars incase Leatherman goes full "lifestyle" mode and discontinues anything under $200.


us Offline G-Dizzle

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,483
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #15 on: September 19, 2024, 03:49:41 PM
I picked up what could probably 2 or 3 lifetimes worth of Executives when they were discontinued. Debating doing the same with Rebars incase Leatherman goes full "lifestyle" mode and discontinues anything under $200.

Hopefully we would have plenty of warning if that were to happen. I would pick up another Rebar most likely. It’s one of my favorite models. I have an Executive somewhere but it is hiding. Will be a nice surprise when I find it one day.


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #16 on: September 19, 2024, 08:26:31 PM
Unfortunately, Leatherman doesn't give any warning when they discontinue things.  Their MTs just start to show as unavailable on the website, and unavailable on Amazon and elsewhere.  The Free P4 is not available on the Leatherman website, for example, which directs you to Amazon.  That's a giant hint.  A Leatherman customer service chick told me that they don't even know when this stuff will happen, because no one tells them.  Spyderco gives you several months notice of what will be discontinued the following year, so you can load up if that's what you are into.

I have the same strategy with MTs, SAKs, guns and ammo.  Buy a little extra here and there over time when the feeling hits you - especially your favorites - then when the Crunch disappears or there is no ammo available, you don't go into panic mode.

I had 600 rolls of toilet paper in the Special Reserve Collection before the events of 2020 and the shelves were empty. When everyone else in America was scrambling to find it, I was sitting on my throne of Charmin and laughing like a maniac.

 :tu:
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 08:31:42 PM by powernoodle »
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


us Offline G-Dizzle

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,483
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #17 on: September 19, 2024, 08:32:25 PM
Unfortunately, Leatherman doesn't give any warning when they discontinue things.  Their MTs just start to show as unavailable on the website, and unavailable on Amazon and elsewhere.  The Free P4 is not available on the Leatherman website, for example, which directs you to Amazon.  That's a giant hint.  A Leatherman customer service chick told me that they don't even know when this stuff will happen, because no one tells them.  Spyderco gives you several months notice of what will be discontinued the following year, so you can load up if that's what you are into.

I have the same strategy with MTs, SAKs, guns and ammo.  Buy a little extra here and there over time when the feeling hits you - especially your favorites - then when the Crunch disappears or there is no ammo available, you don't go into panic mode.

 :tu:

Still waiting on ammo prices to fall farther before really restocking. This November I have a feeling will determine if prices will go up or down in the future.


us Offline Farmer X

  • *
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 10,696
  • Master of the unexciting
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #18 on: September 20, 2024, 01:08:48 AM
@BPRoberts: Leatherman does seem to be a little too focused on fanboys with deep pockets. Yet I can't see every Leatherman selling for over $200 unless we experience absolutely insane hyperinflation.

@powernoodle: I have had enough toilet paper since May...but 600 rolls? You could have been a billionaire during the early days of the pandemic!
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #19 on: September 20, 2024, 01:19:01 AM
I could have really cleaned up, that's true.

HAR HAR!
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


Offline Cypren

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 168
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #20 on: September 20, 2024, 02:01:00 AM
@BPRoberts: Leatherman does seem to be a little too focused on fanboys with deep pockets. Yet I can't see every Leatherman selling for over $200 unless we experience absolutely insane hyperinflation.

Okay, I'm going to put on my flame-retardant underwear here and wade in with what may be a very unpopular opinion. I think Leatherman hit the point of incremental returns on multitools a long time ago. They're a mature tool, and there's not a whole lot that can be done to improve a Wave+ or Surge without breaking something else people love about them. I think we tend to see that with the smaller (mostly Chinese) companies like SOG and Roxon that are constantly trying new form factors and designs: they just don't manage to produce tools that are outright superior to the classic Leathermans, just ones that make different cost/durability/functionality/usability tradeoffs, better in some areas and worse in many others.

The Free P2/P4/Arc are also an example of that kind of trade, reducing the durability and increasing the cost of the tool in exchange for significantly improved usability. They're still just fine for light and medium-duty work, even if they're not suitable for tradesmen who need cheap, disposable tools that can be beat to hell and won't break the bank if they, uh, "walk away". But that's fine! They're for a totally different audience, people like me who don't work in the trades and aren't putting the same kind of physical stress on them that a tradesman does.

And they haven't stopped making those beloved heavy duty tools to focus on shiny new gadgets. Most of the models they've retired were either completely superseded by something else or just had an incredibly niche audience. And while the prices have gone up, that mostly reflects macroeconomic factors that are outside of Leatherman's control: American labor is stupidly expensive relative to most of the world and the entire global supply chain has experienced rampant inflation.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't see anything wrong with Leatherman trying to build tools with a different balance of compromises, and I don't think it reflects any kind of abandonment of the core audience or a shift to being a "lifestyle brand". They've just in a position where it's impossible to please everyone: you're not going to get a tool that improves on a Wave or Surge without making any tradeoffs, while still being made in the US, and at a price point that can compete with companies doing most of their manufacturing in China.


us Offline cody6268

  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,933
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #21 on: September 20, 2024, 03:44:05 AM
Looking at my EDCs, few are still in production.

And strangely, all of these are discontinued.

Spirit XC
Executive/Director
Companion (or whatever they call the smooth Alox Classic without keyring).
Master RT (aka the "Farm Shop Trekker").
Dual Pro X
GAK (108mm)
Tourist
Tinker Small
84mm Craftsman
Wenger Swiss Sportsman
Wenger Pocket Toolchest
Delemont RangerGrip 71 Gardener


us Offline Swisster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 291
  • Ambassador of SAK's
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #22 on: September 20, 2024, 08:30:42 PM
most of Leatherman's stuff is made in China and some are parts made in China and assembled in the U.S. The days of Leatherman being 100% manufactured in U.S. are long gone and they are very deceptive about made in the U.S. Most of the the stuff is a mix of parts made in U.S. and China. SwissTool build quality is far superior to any Leatherman


us Offline Explorer

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,741
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #23 on: September 20, 2024, 09:38:55 PM
 :iagree:

the Standard SwissTool is a BEAST  :viking:







us Offline Explorer

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,741
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #24 on: September 20, 2024, 09:41:07 PM
Awlso I do agree with Mr. noodle Vic really did miss the boat on discontinuing the manager and others.

it perplexes me why they don't do more 58mm in alox as well. seems like those would sell well

and if they come in red alox then...



us Offline Swisster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 291
  • Ambassador of SAK's
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #25 on: September 20, 2024, 11:45:26 PM
regular production Alox Rambler's and Vagabond's would be great because MiniChamp's have a few implements that are next to useless and take up space. My preference would be an Alox Vagabond for about $50 from Amazon


us Offline Farmer X

  • *
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • ********
    • Posts: 10,696
  • Master of the unexciting
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #26 on: September 21, 2024, 02:59:49 AM
They're just in a position where it's impossible to please everyone.
:iagree:

it perplexes me why they don't do more 58mm in alox as well. seems like those would sell well
I'm hoping like mad that the Alox Bantam sticks around, even if only as "dealer exclusive" runs.
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!


us Offline G-Dizzle

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 4,483
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #27 on: September 21, 2024, 05:20:20 AM
I'm hoping like mad that the Alox Bantam sticks around, even if only as "dealer exclusive" runs.

I know you like your bantams. Never owned one personally. Too many phillips screws in the world.


Offline Cypren

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 168
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #28 on: September 21, 2024, 10:46:40 AM
most of Leatherman's stuff is made in China and some are parts made in China and assembled in the U.S. The days of Leatherman being 100% manufactured in U.S. are long gone and they are very deceptive about made in the U.S. Most of the the stuff is a mix of parts made in U.S. and China. SwissTool build quality is far superior to any Leatherman

Do you have an authoritative source for the claim that Leatherman’s making most of the parts in China? I know some of the accessories are made there, but my impression is that the tools aren’t. It was a while back, but when they were sued in the early 2000s over the “Made in the USA” label, they were forced to disclose the entire supply chain for their tools in the court filings, and at the time, the non-US parts were coming from Switzerland, Austria and Mexico (and the last was from the same manufacturer that had always supplied the plier jaws for the tools; they kept working with them after the company relocated its operations in the wake of NAFTA).

This Reddit post from a couple of years ago, made by someone who claims to have worked in the Leatherman factory for four years, seems to indicate that this was still the case more recently as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/Leatherman/comments/ufhqjk/comment/i6uxoz4/


us Offline powernoodle

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,978
Re: Shame on Victorinox . . .
Reply #29 on: September 21, 2024, 12:49:26 PM
most of Leatherman's stuff is made in China

I'll buy a Leatherman for you if you can document this.  If you can't, you give $100 to MTO.  Deal?   :cheers:
:doggy: :doggy: :doggy:

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”
― Niels Bohr


 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
January Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Jan 31
Total Receipts: $96.97
PayPal Fees: $5.86
Net Balance: $91.11
Below Goal: $208.89
Site Currency: USD
30% 
January Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal