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Sharpening with Paper Wheels 14124

No Life Club Posts: 2,408
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2016, 12:13:43 AM »
Kwakster you are an extremist.

I've always said,"you can learn from an extremist".LOL

Thanks for sharing all of this information.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  **Edmund Burke**

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."    **Benjamin Franklin**
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2016, 03:28:31 PM »
Well, that depends on your point of view, :D

Sharing info is what forums are all about, and useful tools with a great price to performance ratio like these Paper Wheels deserve to be introduced to a larger audience.



Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2016, 05:28:09 PM »
Did these chisel ground edges a a few years ago with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and then stropped the burr on the other side off on hard leather with some 1 micron diamond compound.
Both knives were quite blunt, one even more than the other.
The knives are owned by two Dutch Special Forces guys who used & sharpened them while on tour in Afghanistan, and they wanted the new edges to have a little bling.




Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2016, 01:43:08 PM »
Below you see 3 different viewing angles of the edge i recently put on a brand new Sebenza 25 (which had a subpar factory edge)
The owner of the knife took the pictures with a very expensive Leica camera to capture the different looks this edge type can have when seen from different angles.
For obvious reasons i named this a bling & bite finish, and it performs very well on especially high (vanadium) carbide steels.

I first reprofiled the factory edge from 35 degrees inclusive to 30 degrees inclusive with a Rubber Wheel coated with 230 grit diamond powder, then refined it with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and lastly removed the tiny burr with a second Paper Wheel coated with 0.25 micron diamond compound.
The new and ever so slightly convex edge could treetop the hair on the back of my hand (even whittle it a bit) and easily slice single ply toilet paper.
And this was after i tested the edge with a few firm cuts into the edge of a piece of laminated desktop.






Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2016, 12:04:06 PM »
This just came in, and it should be more than enough to coat both a Paper Wheel as well as a Rubber Wheel using the 3-step process.
According to my digital scale it weighs +/- 40 grams.


Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 50,314
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2016, 04:08:44 PM »
Awesome Kwakster :cheers: Can't wait to see those results :o

 :like:
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2016, 05:24:36 PM »
@ Poncho65: when i have some results with those Wheels i will post them here as well,  :)

Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2016, 05:25:00 PM »
I own several vintage Gerbers in M2 steel, both outdoor & kitchen models, and this Durendal slicer model from the '60's does duty in our kitchen.
Opening all kinds of paper & plastic food packages, slicing bags with espresso beans, cutting up larger fruits like melons & pineapples, slicing bread loafs and hamburger buns without crumbling, cutting sausages, etc.
Not every day, but at least several times a week.

I bought this Gerber about 2 years ago on E-Bay completely blunt, so i reprofiled & sharpened it with a SiC grit Paper Wheel, then refined the edge with 15 micron diamond compound on a second Paper Wheel, and then again with 6 micron diamond compound on a third Paper Wheel.
The tiny burr was removed with a fourth Paper Wheel coated with 0,25 micron diamond compound.
The idea was to get something of a semi-polish that would protect the exposed M2 edge better against corrosion issues during kitchen use, while still having some degree of bite.

The knife was then used for about 2 years in our kitchen, and when not in use stored on a magnet strip on our kitchen wall.
After those 2 years the edge only had a few very minor dings/flat spots in it (in the tiny belly area), but it could still shave the hair on the back of my hand on skin level quite well with about 90-95 % of the edge.
When cutting tomatoes however the edge tended to slide a bit over the skin before it started to cut.
The main reason for this kind of edgeholding is of course the fact that most of the edge on a slicer like this never touches a cutting board, only the belly area does, but the M2 steel performed quite admirably in my book.

A few weeks ago i resharpened the edge, this time only with 15 micron diamond compound, then deburred with 0,25 micron diamond compound, as i want to try the knife with some more bite.
Will have to find out if there will be corrosion issues or not.
So far i've only used it on food packaging (both paper & plastic, no fruit or other things yet), but here are a few pics how the knife & edge look now.
The edge feels sticky and is still treetopping sharp.













Specs:

Blade steel: hard chromed M2 steel
Hardness: 60-62 HRC
Handle material: cast on aluminum, chromed.
Overall length: 29,5 cm
Blade length: 16,5 cm
Blade thickness: 1,36 mm in front of the handle tapering to 0,84 mm close to the point
Thickness behind the edge: 0,5 mm
Edge angle: +/- 30 degrees inclusive, slightly convex

Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2016, 05:13:17 PM »
Did this user Spyderco PM2 in S30V steel for a customer who had seen pictures online of another PM2 in S110V steel i did earlier, and which are also somewhere in this thread.
The man wanted the exact same full mirror edge he had seen on the other knife, it had to be 30 degrees inclusive, and it also had to have a guaranteed hair whittling sharpness.
Of course i told him that this S30V is not the best steel for a full mirror edge, but it was what he wanted, :)

The old edge had a few flat spots and a bit of a rounded point from use, but nothing serious.
Total time i spent on this knife was one hour, in a succession of Paper Wheels with 15, 6, 3, and 1 micron diamond compound.
As a comparison: the same full mirror edge on that PM2 in S110V steel the man saw online took me two hours.
Most of this time is going into the many visual checks i do in between with my Victorinox loupe under bright light, not into the actual sharpening.

These are the quick pics i also sent to the customer, and they can be clicked twice for a bit more detail.
The owner was satisfied btw.




Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 50,314
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2016, 10:03:45 PM »
Those are some very nice and shiny edges Kwakster :o :like: :like: :like:
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2016, 07:46:38 AM »
Hinderer XM-18 Slicer grind in S35VN steel.
According to my Tormek angle gauge the factory edge angle measured between 45 and 50 degrees inclusive, while the thickness of the steel just behind that edge went from 0.7 mm at the heel to 0.6 mm at the tip.
The knife is going to be used as a hunting folder, and the owner had 2 wishes: if possible no visually wide bevels, plus he wanted to be able to maintain the new edge on a Spyderco Sharpmaker.

Before sharpening:







After sharpening.

Edge reprofiled to an almost exact 35 degrees inclusive with a Paper Wheel coated with 220 grit SiC, after which the burr was removed with a second Paper Wheel coated with 0.25 micron diamond compound.
The new edge is what i would call sticky sharp.






Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2017, 02:55:55 PM »
This special version of the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 in CPM-M4 steel & carbon fiber is in use with a Dutch knife forum member.
A small fraction of the tip had broken off and the apex sustained some damage (see pic 3)
This is how the knife looked before sharpening.
You can click 2 X on each pic for more detail.





After sharpening.
First i ground the old apex flat on the Tormek Blackstone until all damage in the apex was gone & there was a new point.
Then i made a new edge with 15 micron diamond compound on a Paper Wheel, which was then refined with 6, 3, and 1 micron diamond compound on dedicated Paper Wheels to a full mirror.
The new edge measures 30 degrees inclusive and is hairwhittling sharp.
You can click 2 X on each pic for more detail.












Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 35,990
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2017, 03:01:09 PM »
 :like:   :like:   :like:
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 34,681
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2017, 03:35:45 PM »
Ditto ^
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,595 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2017, 04:39:20 PM »
Nice!

Nate

Words and stuff....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2017, 05:22:59 PM »
Dustar Model 1 Arad '67 Commemorative combat knife from a collector.
The factory "edge" was very rough and also still had a burr so thick that i could lift the entire knife from the table by hooking it with my finger nail.
Edge angle was +/- 45 degrees inclusive which i left intact as the customer did not want wider bevels.
After grinding the apex flat on the Tormek Blackstone the edge was resharpened on a Paper Wheel with 15 micron diamond compound then deburred with a second Paper Wheel with 3 micron diamond compound, an the new edge can just treetop the hairs on the back of my hand.
Probably the most wear resistant D2 steel i have sharpened so far.




Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2017, 07:25:32 PM »

Great pictures K   :tu:
Looks perfect from where I'm sitting  :salute:

 :cheers:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2017, 07:36:56 PM »
This vintage Al Mar Applegate Fairbairn dagger from a display collection had factory edges which were rather coarse, had a few flat spots, and a flattened point.
Since the "R" from Rex Applegate's signature was already quite close to the +/- 50 degrees inclusive factory edge i chose not to reprofile but instead just polish the existing bevels a bit with successively 15.0 micron, 3.0 micron, and 1.0 micron diamond compound on dedicated Paper Wheels.
Both new edges can shave the hair on the back of my hand on skin level.
( click each pic 2 x for a bit more detail)










Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2017, 09:12:12 PM »

Great pictures K   :tu:
Looks perfect from where I'm sitting  :salute:

 :cheers:

This again  :salute:

Is it rude to quote myself?  :think:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2017, 09:15:49 PM »
Absolutely not, and thanks,  :D

Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2017, 09:27:47 PM »

Thank you K,   :salute:
Always interesting stuff and stunning pictures   :tu:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2018, 04:30:51 PM »
Another PM2 in S110V.
The new edge was done on a Paper Wheel with 15 micron diamond compound, and then refined with 6.0 micron, 3.0 micron, and 1.0 micron diamond compound, all on dedicated Paper Wheels.
The apex is keen enough to whittle several curls in a row on one of my chest hairs while holding the hair at the root end only.
You can click each pic 2 X for a bit more detail.












Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2018, 02:45:10 PM »
The owner of this Maxamet PM2 had given his knife a forced patina treatment, and besides coming out a bit uneven the acid had also completely eaten away the factory apex as well as the very tip of the blade.
To say that the knife was completely blunt would have been an understatement.
The request was to give the knife a new toothy edge with a lot of bite while making it as sharp as possible.
(You can click each pic 2 X for a bit more detail)

Before sharpening:











After sharpening
Flattened the acid damaged "apex" some more on a 3000 grit diamond plate so i could start with fresh steel, then made a new edge on a Rubber Wheel coated with +/- 230 grit diamond powder & wax, then deburred on a Paper Wheel with 1.0 micron diamond paste & oil.
The new edge is ever so slightly convex, the new apex fits almost exactly in the 30 degree inclusive slot of my Tormek WM200 Angle Master, plus it can whittle one of my chest hairs at about 5.5 centimeters from the point of holding. (i don't own a BESS tester)
The somewhat "fuzzy" shoulders of the new edge show how deep the acid has eaten away into the sides of the blade in some area's.










Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2018, 03:56:14 PM »

Thank you K,   :salute:
Always interesting stuff and stunning pictures   :tu:

At risk of repeating myself here  :imws:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2018, 12:58:33 PM »
Right hand Takamura R2 Gyuto 210 mm from a local Chef, who got it as a birthday present from his wife.
The knife has already been used for two months in the commercial kitchen and it was time for it's first resharpening, which i did yesterday on a Paper Wheel with 15 micron diamond compound and then deburred on a second Paper Wheel with 0.25 micron diamond compound.
The idea was to make an edge that would do both slicing & pushcutting well, and also to remove as little steel as possible from the fine and thin R2/SG2 blade @ 63-64 HRC.
The new edge measures +/- 20 degrees inclusive and can whittle a chest hair from root-to-tip at about 4 centimeters from the point of holding, and after a few test cuts into a old piece of beechwood cutting board.

I took these pics with an old Ipad and actually wanted to erase them again as being not good enough until i enlarged the last picture twice.
At first i thought i saw small dirt spots on the new bevel, but those tiny white specks were actually the sliced off peaks of the micro-dot structure on the inside of the flimsy plastic blade protector sleeve.














Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2018, 01:20:29 PM »

Thank you K,   :salute:
Always interesting stuff and stunning pictures   :tu:

At risk of repeating myself here  :imws:

 :imws:

 :salute: :cheers:

Everything’s adjustable
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2018, 05:23:36 PM »
The owner of the Takamura R2 just sent me the link to this clip, in which he uses a grape to test the new edge:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ID9KZW0d9ss&feature=youtu.be

Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,624
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2018, 08:25:01 PM »

 :sa: :sa: :sa:

Everything’s adjustable
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,250
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2018, 10:42:39 PM »
That last slice through the grape.... ridiculous!

 :salute:

- Terry

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me...
Hero Member Posts: 819
Re: Sharpening with Paper Wheels
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2019, 03:43:11 PM »
Update on the Takamura R2 210 Gyuto:

According to the Chef this edge done on Paper Wheels lasted him 2 months in his commercial kitchen, which was just as long as the factory edge had lasted him.
During that time he sometimes touched up the edge by stropping it on an MDF strop with 1.0 micron diamond compound until that no longer worked satisfactory (in the last week or so), after which he used a fine ceramic rod on it.
Differences with the factory edge were that the Paper Wheel edge had a slightly smaller edge angle (+/- 20 degrees inclusive instead of +/- 22,5 degrees inclusive), was finer polished, and had a higher sharpness.

We're still in the process of finetuning the edge to his specific requirements, and next time he brings in the knife it will probably get a little less refined edge to see if it's useful life can be prolonged a bit more.
In his kitchen the real edge killers are the mandatory plastic cutting boards which are very abrasive on knife edges, together with the almost unavoidable tiny sand particles which sometimes remain in the huge quantities of vegetables that need to be processed.

Waiting since 2011 for DaveK to send back my personal Leatherman maintenance tools....

 

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