Multitool days are numbered in Singapore

[silentio]

Singapore is generally very safe, but we've been hit by a series of youth-related violence here, all involving knives. Aside from some teenagers who have been arrested for slashing other kids, two boys have been arrested for brandishing knives.

Like in the UK, we have laws that make it illegal to carry a knife. However, unlike the UK, this law is worded very vaguely and the police can arrest you for anything that seems like a weapon. It has not been enforced for years, ever since things got peaceful here in the 80s.

With the spate of incidents, I think there will be an over-reaction, as people in power usually do to appease the public. I have my Skeletool with me now, but this will be the last day I will be carrying it for now. All my MTs and SAKs have knives, so they will all stay in the drawer till (if ever) this thing blows over.

If the situation gets worse, I'll start asking about knifeless tools soon!

[Turnstone]

That sucks 

We have similar laws. We are allowed to carry certain knifes, but the police in many cases doesn't know the law properly and just takes away anything with a blade if in doubt, and you have the hassle to prove that you were right to carry it. I still carry a knife, in most cases a SAK which is still regarded almost everywhere as OK. But I am afraid laws will get worse here, too... 

[duckman1975]

Hate it was politicians over reacts, looks very good in paper but only makes life of law abiding citizen harder and sometimes more dangerous.

[Grant Lamontagne]

You are absolutely right Duckman- it looks good but doesn't actually deal with the issue.  It's what I call a "Band Aid Solution" and it rarely works because it doesn't treat the problem, just makes you think it does.

Too bad politicians aren't interested in solving problems, just making them look better. 

Silentio- have you considered carrying a SAK instead?  I find that the bigger a SAK is, the less it's regarded as a dangerous weapon.  I have seen people's eyes bug out when I open up a Soldier, but no one I've encountered has ever been afraid of the SwissChamp.

Def

[rp252]

You are absolutely right Duckman- it looks good but doesn't actually deal with the issue.  It's what I call a "Band Aid Solution" and it rarely works because it doesn't treat the problem, just makes you think it does.

Too bad politicians aren't interested in solving problems, just making them look better. 

Silentio- have you considered carrying a SAK instead?  I find that the bigger a SAK is, the less it's regarded as a dangerous weapon. I have seen people's eyes bug out when I open up a Soldier, but no one I've encountered has ever been afraid of the SwissChamp.

Def

It seems ridiculous really.  The Champ is probably more dangerous - you could do more damage throwing that brick at someone than wielding the soldier in a menacing fashion

Many countries seem to be tightening up knife laws in similar ways.  I agree that it doesn't solve any problems.  Problem is many members of the general public agree with laws like this 

[Grant Lamontagne]

You are absolutely right at the level of damage a Champ could do on impact, but the point is that with all the extra features it is less of a knife and it's knives that people are afraid of.  Any SAK or multitool could have a fold out crossbow like the one in that horrible Get Smart movie, and yet still everyone's fear would be centered around the knife.

Tragically knives have a primal effect on people, like fire or large predatory animals, and as such, will always be a target for opportunistic slimeballs in the street or in public office.

Def

[sawman]

I like your example Grant how the primal effect takes over in people.  For instance, let's say I wanted to talk some sense into one of these ignorant panzies...  I could set them in a chair and try to explain how a slip joint knife is not good for stabbing as it has no lock - but that's equivallent to telling them to stick their hand in the fire / it's not hot.  The bottom line is people are programmed some way some how that certain things equal absolute and total evil and it's not just knives, it's insects / critters like Bees, Spiders and Snakes.  It's sad and infuriating at the same time.  And most of us break our backs giving up our rights trying to comply with the bullsmurf these politicians pass as LAW...

[MultiMat]

I would of said never in Australia but recently the state of Victoria pretty much banned carrying  any kind of blade in public  .



I have very little respect for politicians 

[sawman]

I would of said never in Australia but recently the state of Victoria pretty much banned carrying  any kind of blade in public  .



I have very little respect for politicians 

Get a rope 

[ducktapehero]

I am sorry for you guys. And banning "taboo" objects does nothing to solve the root problem of crime. Criminals will still get their weapons. That's a simple fact. I live in one of the most "weapon" friendly areas of the world and there are times that I won't lock my front door for days. In my neighborhood, the ONLY thing that really concerns me is that I'm gonna run into a skunk someday. There are some around. But if one sprays me I'll pepper spray him back. Or most likely I'll scream like a girl and run away.   

It's easy to get a concealed weapon permit and often times you'll see someone walking around with a fixed blade knife on their belt, and it doesn't get a second look. That isn't to say that there is no crime but most of it is criminal-on-criminal crime. Mostly meth related, which if you're not involved with that then chances are you'll be fine.

Criminals know that if they break into a home or assault someone on the street there's a decent chance they may get shot, and the person who shot them won't get into any trouble. No jury around here will convict someone defending themselves against violent crime.

[glorn]

Tragically knives have a primal effect on people, like fire or large predatory animals..

Recently I have been EDCing a large predatory animal that I set on fire. It really does seem to keep people at bay.

I hope it isn't illegal though. The laws on large predatory animals on fire are somewhat vague here.

[Turnstone]

And banning "taboo" objects does nothing to solve the root problem of crime. Criminals will still get their weapons. That's a simple fact.

Of course. They want to to something that's already illegal, so they don't care about if there is a law that forbids them to carry a gun or a knife or a hammer or something else.

It just makes criminals out of good people who want to carry a tool which is suddenly labeled as a weapon. And many people over here suddenly see a knife only as a weapon, and not as a tool anymore. That's the really bad thing about it. 

[Mike 56]

I am sorry to hear about your problems in Singapore. Politicians want to legislate  personal conduct by banning the tool rather than the act. I be leave laws like this are a attempt to make politicians look like they are doing something. I think before they make a new law they must get reid of three old laws. If you going to get stabbed most likely it will be with a kitchen knife.  Ban those? Criminalizing honest people only fills up jails and does nothing to prevent crime. They should untie people hands and let them defend their selfs. I carry a can of wasp and hornet spray in my truck and pepper spray on my key ring.

Mike

[Grant Lamontagne]

Pat- I think that has more to do with a small town mentality than it does with everyone being armed.  Lots of people are armed in NYC too, and they routinely lead the US in unsolved violent crime.

Guns, like knives, are not enough to keep people honest.

Def

[duckman1975]

You are absolutely right Duckman- it looks good but doesn't actually deal with the issue.  It's what I call a "Band Aid Solution" and it rarely works because it doesn't treat the problem, just makes you think it does.

Too bad politicians aren't interested in solving problems, just making them look better. 

Silentio- have you considered carrying a SAK instead?  I find that the bigger a SAK is, the less it's regarded as a dangerous weapon.  I have seen people's eyes bug out when I open up a Soldier, but no one I've encountered has ever been afraid of the SwissChamp.

Def

Thats a very good observation a swisschamp just looks better than the soldier so nobody is afraid of the champ Some people just like it when things "looks good".

[silentio]

That's a good idea, Grant. In fact, I have been carrying my SAK these few days, though I feel a little insecure without pliers. My LM has come in handy on more than a few occasions because of the pliers.

So on the bright side, I think this might be the excuse I need to to buy a CT34 

Another thing I may do is to carry my MT in my bag. So even if I do get randomly checked, the fact that I've put it in a place that's not instantly accessible (implying it's less dangerous as a weapon) may work in my favour.

[ducktapehero]

Pat- I think that has more to do with a small town mentality than it does with everyone being armed.  Lots of people are armed in NYC too, and they routinely lead the US in unsolved violent crime.

Yes but you must also note that many of those guns are already illegal and owned by the criminals. If NYC would allow its citizens to effectively defend themselves then I bet a lot of that crime would disappear.

It should also be noted that a lot of that crime is criminal-on-criminal crime. Thus the "unsolved" issue.

[asupernothing]

It should also be noted that a lot of that crime is criminal-on-criminal crime. Thus the "unsolved" issue.

Maybe the negatives cancel and the reason it is "unsolved is that there was no crime in that situation? (Sorry for the random logic joke, just couldn't help myself)

Recently I have been EDCing a large predatory animal that I set on fire. It really does seem to keep people at bay.

I hope it isn't illegal though. The laws on large predatory animals on fire are somewhat vague here.

I want one, want to trade for it?

In all seriousness, the situation in many parts of the world is a growing climate of fear. People have simply begun to fear too many things and this is allowing the politicians to have a field day.
I think I was going to try and make in insightful point about something now, but its late and I am tired. Sorry.

[Mercury]

This is a good debate.  I want in!

ASN,

I don't think the crime level has as much to do with fear as it does the fact that the honest public is being increasingly herded into a society without armament.  You can make whatever you want illegal, and the only ones who stop carrying said items will be the honest folks.  Criminals don't pay attention to the law in the first place, so making, say, a switchblade illegal doesn't stop a switchblade from being a murder weapon, it just makes them a little more scarce.  Suffice it to say our politicians focus on the wrong problem.   

A locking knife is a tool, nothing more.  No one in their right mind would use a skeletool to kill someone, so why the hell are they illegal to carry in some places?  If someone has a mind to kill, does the weapon really matter?  they will use whatever they can get their hands on.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Pat- I think that has more to do with a small town mentality than it does with everyone being armed.  Lots of people are armed in NYC too, and they routinely lead the US in unsolved violent crime.

Yes but you must also note that many of those guns are already illegal and owned by the criminals. If NYC would allow its citizens to effectively defend themselves then I bet a lot of that crime would disappear.

It should also be noted that a lot of that crime is criminal-on-criminal crime. Thus the "unsolved" issue.

I'm not going to get into the gun discussion here, as it's political and mods are likely to close this and ban both of us for our troubles, but you are way oversimplifying things.  If it was that simple, there wouldn't be a problem.  By your logic, if no one in your town had guns, you'd all take to looting eachother's houses and businesses every chance you got.  The fact is that most people are honest by nature, and it's the ones that aren't that whip the rest of us into a paranoia that "everyone" is out to get us when it simply isn't true.

That notion makes about as much sense as saying anything with a blade on it should be illegal so that way no one will want to kill, hurt or threaten other people.  Perhaps dealing with the social problems that underlie gun/knife/crime phobias and necessities would be a lot more effective, but that's not going to show any results in time for the election so it isn't going to happen.

Def

[ducktapehero]

I thought you said you weren't gonna get into the gun discussion here.  But yes, if no one but the cops(and criminals of course) had guns in my area then yes, I believe that crime would definitely increase. What's gonna stop them?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Basic human decency?  I'm not sure I'd want to live in a place where I have to threaten my neighbors with an ass full of lead to keep them out of my house.

Def

[ducktapehero]

It's not the decent humans I worry about. It's the other 75%. 

[glorn]

Nothing wrong with armed decent humans.

[Mercury]

Nothing wrong with armed decent humans.

 

Absolutely.

[danbomb]

I think anyone anywhere in the world should be able to carry a 3" blade of choice.  I use mine everyday and can't go without it.  Guns are a different matter.   In a place like Japan where guns are rare it makes sense to try and control them.  Here in the US banning handguns does little more than take them from the good guys.
One good thing about the guns here is the deterent from anyone starting a ground war.  Here in LA there would be a sick insurgency against any invaders.

[craigy]

sorry to hear about the possible clampdown. its laws like this that annoy me so much.common sence would tell you that if i was going to stab somone i wouldent use my leatherman multi tool with added bit kit and bit holder.where as a kitchen knife for 3 quid from tesco in my pocket is abit unusual to carry on the streets.it is getting harder now to find a suitable knife to carry around im lucky that what i need for day to day bits and bobs is on a uk legal knife out of leatherman there is only fully uk legal knife the kick.now ive just decided to use a sideclip as my day to day out of work still uk legal.but somtimes i do think about getting stoped by police and having hassle.but i dont feel coumfitable and usefull unless i have a multi tool on me.and a vctorinox just doesent have the tools i need ina idea package.but i do agree they are more friendly yet the only thing of use to me is the knife.