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Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)

us Offline CENTURION

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So I've been working on a mod that involves swapping a LM bit driver into a SOG Powerlock, this is what I've found about the differences between the two designs, I'm posting it up here as a reference for other modders who might find it useful.

The SOG tools I have for reference are from a Powerlock S60 (an older model with single-peice locks, 2.0 plier head, and gear covers). All SOG tools should be identical as far as I know, because they are made to be swapped out.

The LM tools are from a brand-new Kick. I don't know for sure that all LM tools are Identical, but they look like they are, and the Kick's tools (which are non-locking) still have the notches for the Wave/Charge/Surge locks. If anyone knows for sure that they are or aren't, please correct me.

1. Shaft Sizes
Both tools have almost identical sized shafts, and as such, SOG tools will fit on a LM shaft, and LM tools will fit on a SOG shaft. Howerver, the holes in the tool components are not identical, the LM holes are just a hair smaller than some of the SOG ones (namely the SOG phillips driver, other tools don't seem to have this problem). This means that the SOG tools have a bit more side-to-side and front-back play to them. The side-to-side play will be eliminated when the tool is put in a handle with other tools and/or properly-sized spacers. The front-to-back, not so much.

LM can opener and SOG large screwdriver both on a SOG shaft

2. Closed Position Detents
The tools are quite different in this regard, as the SOG design uses an actual notch in the tool (similar to the locking notch) that interfaces with the lockbar to keep the tools closed, whereas the LM design has a flattened surface that the lockbar rests against. This flattened surface is such that if the LM tool is transplanted into a SOG Powerlock, the lockbar will be able to still hold all the other tools closed via the existing detents, but the LM tool will have a significant amount of play in it when in the closed position, as the flat section does not even touch the lockbar.


3. Locking Notches
This is where modding will become a big problem. Leatherman's notches are almost twice the size of SOG's, and whereas SOG's are situated slightly behind the pivot hole, Leatherman's are right above it. The convergence of these two differences means that when a LM tool is put into a SOG handle, it will lock in place, but will have a huge amount of play. The SOG Lockbar fills the back half of the LM locking slot, but there is far too much space in front of it. The metal behind the lock notch is also much shorter on the LM tools, which could result in a less reliable lock-up.

LM Vs. SOG locking notches

4. Width
Sog's tools are the same thickness as most of Leathermans, except LM's can opener and the Kick's knife, which are just barely thinner. The super-thick Kick phillips driver is just a little more than twice as thick as the other tools.

Two SOG tools Vs. LM thick phillips driver

5. Other
The Kicks handles can hold 4 SOG components (with a bit of side-to-side play, could be fixed with an extremely thin washer), however, trying to open them is hard, and the lock-up is way off.




6. The Bottom Line
SOG components can be put into a LM tool with a bit of modification (enlarge the lock notch, file down the metal behind the lock notch, flatten the bottom of the tool)

LM components really can't be put into a SOG tool. I can't think of any way to modify the LM tools to fit other than to use a welder to melt a few blobs of metal into the locking notch, and the bottom to create a closed detent.

I hope someone finds this useful!

NOTE: I have a couple images detailing the lockup issues in the powerlock with LM tools, but they're on the camera, not the memory card, so I'll have to fish them off later tomorrow (well, today) and upload them.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 12:35:15 AM
Great analysis Centurion! :salute: It's interesting to see how the two companies approach the same problem (like maintaining blade closed position, for instance) from two different directions. :salute:

I agree with your summary too; SOG components can be put in a Leatherman tool because it involves removing some material. Trying to put LM blades in a SOG unfortunately would involve adding some material. :(
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 12:48:45 PM
Great run through mate I enjoyed that. :tu:  Shame it looks like you won't be able to do your original plan though. :-\
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #3 on: January 16, 2011, 01:35:56 PM
Excellent insight, thanks mate.
I've been thinking about having a go at modding myself (different tools), and found this very useful for understanding what I might run into

 :cheers:


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


us Offline yud

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #4 on: January 16, 2011, 09:01:31 PM
You could make a new thicker lock for the sog


Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

Knight of the SOSAK and Defender of the sacred nail file


br Offline Santos

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 04:26:00 AM
yeah i wanted to put a wave bit driver and mini driver on my powerlock some time back. just a visual check told me it wasn't going to happen  :cry:

2 part epoxy putty might do the trick if you willing to reset it every time it breaks or welding it and sawing a new notch

As for me, i'm just saving up for a CNC milling machine  :gimme:
“A good plan isn't one where someone wins, it's where nobody thinks they've lost.”
- Terry Pratchett


us Offline CENTURION

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 07:12:24 AM
yeah i wanted to put a wave bit driver and mini driver on my powerlock some time back. just a visual check told me it wasn't going to happen  :cry:

2 part epoxy putty might do the trick if you willing to reset it every time it breaks or welding it and sawing a new notch

As for me, i'm just saving up for a CNC milling machine  :gimme:

Actually I have access to some CNC machinery, and I've been toying around with the idea of just making bit drivers, but there are some issues involved in that; the strength of machined pieces rather than cast ones, making the retention spring, the cost of buying endmills to cut the really small SOG-sized lock slots, the inside of the driver, and the slot for the spring. If I do end up making some I'll probably make a bunch for sale if there's enough demand.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I hoped someone would find it useful.

I'm still trying to dig those other photos off my camera, but I'll post them as soon as I do.


us Offline CENTURION

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 11:36:11 AM
Hey everyone, sorry to bump such an old thread, but I wanted to follow up with some actual measurements, now that I have an accurate measuring tool (Calipers accurate to 0.0005"/0.01mm). There are times where I would have loved to have access to these kinds of measurements while doing design and planning, so I figured I'd throw them out there.
I'm afraid the only two (Modern) Leatherman tools I have to work with are a Kick and an ST300, but the sizes seem to be standardized, so I don't think it's a big deal.

For SOG tools:

Thickness is standard across all tools, as they are designed to be universal.

-Thickness: 0.0785"/1.98mm
-Locking notch: 0.0570"/1.5mm wide

For Leatherman tools:

Different components have different thicknesses. There is also a few thousandths variation between any two tools, the sheet stock used to make them must have not had an extremely close tolerance.

-"Standard" width tools (most common, including ST300 & Kick screwdrivers, and the ST300 awl and main blades. is 0.0915"-0.0930"/2.34mm-2.36mm thick.
-Can/bottle openers: 0.0735"/1.87mm thick.
-Kick Knife: 0.0685"/1.74mm thick.
-Thick phillips driver: 0.1960"/5.00mm thick
-Lanyard loop: 0.0300"/0.77mm thick.

Leatherman's locking notches are 0.0870"/2.20mm wide.


If anyone would like any other measurements, or has any questions, please feel free to ask here or via a PM.


gb Offline Zed

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Thought I would bring this one back as interested in this kind of mod and found similar issues fitting a sog saw to a kick, :tu:


us Offline J-sews

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It is indeed a useful thread. :salute: Unfortunately I'm sure a lot of folks still find out about these problems through their own trial and error. :-\
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


gb Offline Zed

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Re: Analysis: SOG Vs. Leatherman Components. (High-res pic heavy)
Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 12:53:53 AM
It is indeed a useful thread. :salute: Unfortunately I'm sure a lot of folks still find out about these problems through their own trial and error. :-\

The search function is our friend bob  :salute:


 

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