HDS/Ra's new baby .

[Styerman]

The HDS Rotary was unveiled at SHOT , 200 honest ( as opposed to offshore OTF Lumens ) . It has a rotary dial and clickie switch . While it has bells and whistles , in the basic default mode , the clicky will bring it up in whatever position the rotary function has been left at . This makes it usable for both EDC and tactical applications . Acme threads will be used for the first time in a production lite . The Ra/HDS family is one of the most rugged and highly rated EDC lights out there , probably the only thing that can top it is the very limited production McGizmo Haiku .

HDS also offers custom speced units , and various colors of Seracote ( orange , coyote tan an some kind of green ) .

I'm kicking my poor old A$$ for not getting a Ra Twisty , and have been foot dragging about an HDS clickie , these little guys may be the one !

Chris

[NutSAK]

I'll stick with my clicky until we get some feedback on the rotary switch re:durability.  In fact, the HDS UI is so good with a clicky, I'm not really sure there's a real benefit to the rotary for my uses.

Though the HDS build quality is excellent, it's the efficiency of Henry's circuit that amazes me.  I have a couple of AW RCR123s that test out at just over 500mAh in capacity, and my 170 clicky will run for over an hour on each of them at max (120lm).  My Novatac EDC120P would only run for a little more than half that long at max output.

Same as you, I really want a twisty because I think it's pretty much the most bombproof light out there.  I'm also wanting a high CRI.  BTW, I've seen some pretty good deals on clicky tacticals on CPF MP lately. 

[Mr. Whippy]

Pics are helpful for the newbies 


  (now I'm gonna have to google this light myself...)

[Styerman]

Terry , thanks for the insight , sounds like the clickie is a pretty elegant design . I long thought about a brace of Ra's a clickie and a twisty .

Chris

[NutSAK]

Terry , thanks for the insight , sounds like the clickie is a pretty elegant design . I long thought about a brace of Ra's a clickie and a twisty .

Chris

Here are my thoughts on Novatac vs. "Ra" Clicky (since I know you own a Novatac):

- UI is virtually the same between the two.

- Ra's length feels better in the hand than the Novatac to me.  I always thought my 120P felt kind of short and fat.

- The Ra finally has retail clip options that are as good or better than the Novatac.

- The beam quality is nearly identical.  The narrow beam/tactical Ra (w/OSRAM emitter) has more throw than the Novatac, but has the same smooth transition from spot to spill, and spill is likewise very bright.

- Build quality is better on the Ra.  Threads are thicker, you have the battery protection in the Ra, thick stainless bezel and glass window. 

- The one thing I don't like about the Ra is that the switch is not user-replaceable.  The switch is very well protected and very unlikely to be damaged by external forces, but if it has a mechanical failure, back to HDS it goes.  If a Novatac switch fails, you just buy a new one from lighthound for $20.  You can buy a new body w/switch for the Ra, but that's $50.

[Styerman]

Good mini review , bout the only downside of going to the Ra/HDS is that I'll need a new flap holster due to the increased length . If i get one .I'll prolly pony up for a spare/switch assembly , in the unlikley event I'll need one .

As always , your insights have been very usefull .

I'm thinking of the 120 Lumen EDC or Tac ?? clickie . This little fella appears to have all the power I need , with the added advantage of being about 100 bucks cheaper than the new stuff . I figure I could beat on it for awhile , let any bugs get dealt with on the rotary platform , then see where to go from there .

Chris

[NutSAK]

Yeah, I think the 120s are an awesome deal at $100.  Keep in mind that the full 120 lumens will only be available for a "burst" of 10 seconds, then fall to 84 lumens.  This is not a big deal, and possibly something you're already aware of, but worth mentioning.  That's one thing I should have mentioned in the comparison post above.

[Mr. Whippy]

Is this the light you're talking about?



What does the rotary switch add to this package?  (I'm assuming infinite lumen setting between min and max)?

[NutSAK]

That's the one.  The rotary switch allows you to select one of the four programmable levels/modes, before you turn the light on or during operation.  It replaces the requirement of using click combinations to change modes as you do with the HDS "clicky" lights.

http://www.hdslights.com/?id=Edc&mType=Rotary&mName=R1B&mOut=200

[Styerman]

Terry , in all honesty ; I would be quite happy with 60 Lumens like my old McLuxIII PD . 84 is no prob. , anything in excess being a burst is quite fine .

Basically the only reason the PD is semi retired , is the sad fact that they are no longer in print . I totally understand why Don went to Ti , and ever upwards and onwards with respect to output and features . I jus wish somebody was still manufacturing the old PD under liscence .

Chris

[NutSAK]

Me too.  I'd love to own a McLux, but I have no intention of every buying a Ti light, especially in the high-end market.

I'm with you, I rarely need anything brighter than 60-80 lumens, and do just fine with 30 lumens most of the time.

The way Henry calibrates his lights means that if you buy a 200 lumen light, it will be more efficient than the 170 lumen light, which is also more efficient than the 120.  Only the most efficient emitters will make it into the higher-end Ra lights.  This is what I'm into--I'll take runtime over huge output any day.

[jekostas]

Wait, so they put in a rotary switch but only preset light levels?  That's kind of disappointing, really.  To be honest, I'm waiting for more makers to start using QTC - that'll be cool.

[Mr. Whippy]

Me too.  I'd love to own a McLux, but I have no intention of every buying a Ti light, especially in the high-end market.

I'm with you, I rarely need anything brighter than 60-80 lumens, and do just fine with 30 lumens most of the time.

The way Henry calibrates his lights means that if you buy a 200 lumen light, it will be more efficient than the 170 lumen light, which is also more efficient than the 120.  Only the most efficient emitters will make it into the higher-end Ra lights.  This is what I'm into--I'll take runtime over huge output any day.

This isn't really directed at your comment, but more for anyone who may be reading this and wondering about outputs.

For close up work (electrical, plumbing automotive, etc) I agree.  Anything over 50 Lumen is unnecessary and possibly irritating (too bright).  However there are settings where I want as many lumens as I can get.

When I ride my bicycle to work, I use my Olight M21 as a headlight.  Advertised as 500 Lumen,  it is very floody and excellent for lighting the edge of the woods along the road (for wildlife).  When we have to go out in a field looking for/at horses, dogs, or freakin' vermin ,  having a light with high lumens and big throw, is extremely helpful.

So, there are practical uses for these high powered, compact lights.

[NutSAK]

Wait, so they put in a rotary switch but only preset light levels?  That's kind of disappointing, really.  To be honest, I'm waiting for more makers to start using QTC - that'll be cool.

All HDS lights have 4 available light levels/modes, but they can each be user-programmed to any of 24 different outputs from ~.1 lumen to maximum output.  Any of those levels/modes can also be programmed to emergency strobe, tactical strobe, SOS, etc.  So, each of the 4 modes available can be customized to any of 27 different settings.  As I understand it, the only real advantage to the rotary is that you can select which of the 4 modes/levels you want before you turn the light on.

QTC-controlled and "infinitely variable" lights (as some call them) don't really excite me.  I have a light with a variable-resistance dial (potentiometer) that works very well and I find it to be not much more than novelty.  I would rather have a limited number of levels/modes to choose from (2-4), be able to modify them to the levels I need and directly access them quickly, without having to travel through one level to get to the other.  This is how the HDS works.  Variable resistance and QTC-controlled devices require that you "hunt around" a bit for the level you need for a given task.

[NutSAK]

So, there are practical uses for these high powered, compact lights.

Of course there are, but I was referring to strictly what I consider a compact, pocketable EDC light, such as the HDS that is the subject of the thread.  This is what I was referring to as my "most of the time" light and output.

If I want a searchlight, I'll grab my 600 lumen Fenix TK30 from the house and go to work.  I'm not going to carry around an Olight M21 in my pocket all day, much less a TK30, but I always have something like that close by (in my truck, BOB, briefcase, etc.) if I need it.  If it's dark, I can even use my 30 lumen pocketlight to find the searchlight. 

[Styerman]

The only "infinitely variable " light I own is a Surefire Saint Minimus . At least in a headlamp application , the concept works well .

Light cannons have their uses , I used to have Surefire M3's , 4's and 6's plus a modified Tigerlight . All have now gone to other homes .

I suspect a lot of users just use them for "white wall hunting " . The little , well engineered fellas give me all I need .

Chris

[prime77]

The rotatory feature on the new HDS really don't do it for me either. I think I'll stick with the old UI myself.

[Styerman]

From what I hear the Rotary versions are clipless . Not a deal breaker , but not a plus either .

You guys have put me back on the straight and narrow path , I'll go with a 120 Clickie .

Chris

[NutSAK]

That's the one.  The rotary switch allows you to select one of the four programmable levels/modes, before you turn the light on or during operation.  It replaces the requirement of using click combinations to change modes as you do with the HDS "clicky" lights.

http://www.hdslights.com/?id=Edc&mType=Rotary&mName=R1B&mOut=200

I was wrong about the operation of the rotary guys!

The rotary basically takes place of one of the four programmable "modes".  It allows you to smoothly turn to select any of the 25 different brightness levels the light offers, before or during use.  So, it operates exactly the same as the clicky except that one of the four available modes is variable by using the rotary dial.

So, the only drawback I can see at all to the rotary is that you can't mount a clip between the tailcap and body as you can with the clicky.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Does anyone have any info on when Henry will have more of the high CRI lights available? 

As great as they are, that's the only one that would make me buy a light in the 123 format. 

[NutSAK]

I've been wondering myself.  After having a 170Tn for a few months I've really learned to appreciate the efficiency of Henry's circuit, and I would love to try a high CRI.

If I hear anything, I'll let you know.  Do you follow the HDS thread on CPF?

[gunga]

I would love to get a rotary once they figure out a clip solution.  ALso, when something is available for about half the $200 asking price!

 


BTW, have not seen anything about high CRI clickies yet.  It's not that hard to modify one for high CRI seoul though, for anyone that has a seoul 120 or 140 EDC.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I've been wondering myself.  After having a 170Tn for a few months I've really learned to appreciate the efficiency of Henry's circuit, and I would love to try a high CRI.

If I hear anything, I'll let you know.  Do you follow the HDS thread on CPF?

I skim through it from time to time... there's so much activity there it's hard to follow.  But, I'm sure that's a testament to how good Henry's lights are, and again, one of the only reasons I'm willing to consider a 123 based light. 

I'm honestly even more interested in getting one of the new 2xAA tubes, but I missed the boat a few weeks ago, back when I still had some money to spend.  I'll just have to wait and watch for now, and hope I can jump when the time comes.

[NutSAK]

Until very recently, I would EDC only AA cell lights, and would try a 123-based light on occasion, just to go right back to AA again.  The problem for me is that I will only EDC a light that uses rechargeable cells with primary or secondary as backup, and the 1x123 lights always had poor runtimes on Li-Ion cells.

That all changed when I bought my HDS 170Tn.  It's the only 1x123 light I've owned that has good enough efficiency, IMO, to run on Li-Ion.  My 2-year-old AW 16340 cells test out at about 500mAh capacity, and the HDS will run on the highest level (170 lumen, 120 step-down) for over 1 hour.  I find it a bit large to pocket carry every day, but I always carry it when I'm in need of a tactical light.

I will probably buy a 17670 tube for mine.  I had one for my Novatac EDC 120 and I really liked it.  The 2xAA tubes just make these lights too long to conveniently carry, IMO.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Until very recently, I would EDC only AA cell lights, and would try a 123-based light on occasion, just to go right back to AA again.  The problem for me is that I will only EDC a light that uses rechargeable cells with primary or secondary as backup, and the 1x123 lights always had poor runtimes on Li-Ion cells.

That all changed when I bought my HDS 170Tn.  It's the only 1x123 light I've owned that has good enough efficiency, IMO, to run on Li-Ion.  My 2-year-old AW 16340 cells test out at about 500mAh capacity, and the HDS will run on the highest level (170 lumen, 120 step-down) for over 1 hour.  I find it a bit large to pocket carry every day, but I always carry it when I'm in need of a tactical light.

I will probably buy a 17670 tube for mine.  I had one for my Novatac EDC 120 and I really liked it.  The 2xAA tubes just make these lights too long to conveniently carry, IMO.

I understand about 123 vs AA...  Given the state of the art of battery technology now, and how well designed many of the new EDC size lights are, AND given the cost of 123 primaries, I don't think there's any reason not to go AA.  I've found places online where you can get L91's cheaper than 123 primaries, and 14500's carry a bit more charge in them than 16340's.  (I remember some time ago, Ti-force over at CPF did a shootout between them, and came to that conclusion.)  I also prefer long and slim lights in general, though my current favorite EDC light is my ZL SC50w+.  It's just so small overall, and has such a nice tint and beam, that I don't have anything that beats it.  I really like my QAA-XPGnw but the pre-flash is annoying, and I use moon-mode a lot, for buttoning up the house at night, checking on the kids, etc.

I'm not too worried about the length of the 2xAA tube for getting an HDS...  I bike regularly and have a messenger bag I carry my toys, er... tools, in, and it's got a large pen/pencil pocket in it that's big enough it easily holds one of my QAA2's.  If I were to EDC a Ra, I think it'd probably fit in that same pocket.  My main use for it though would be to put in the bugout bag I have for my family... for that use I want the toughest, most efficient light I can get, and I wouldn't mind spending the money for one of Henry's lights, even to just let it sit in there most of the time; the peace of mind would be worth it.

But in short, yeah... at this point, a Ra is the only one good enough to make me buy a 123 based light.

[NutSAK]

I agree with most of those points.  My 14500 cells test out with higher capacity than my 16340 cells also.  I got lucky with the two Quark AA² NW tacs I have--neither of them has the preflash under normal operation.  Mine are XP-E though, which I prefer over the XP-G beam profile in that particular light.  I hope the pocket in your messenger bag has extra room--the HDS w/AA body is considerably larger in diameter and longer than the Quark.

If the HDS wasn't one of the toughest, most efficient lights with the best (IMO) GUI available, I still wouldn't have one, due to my preference for AA size cells.

BTW, where can you buy L91 cells cheaper than $1.60 apiece, delivered?  That's usually what I pay for CR123.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Okay, well, I guess I'll have to rethink any EDC use of a Ra with a 2xAA tube...   Still want to have one for BOB use though...

It's kind of a moot point for me right now anyway, as I've run up my CC more than I should and the wife is on me about it.  Gonna have to pay it down some before I get anything else.

I found this place for L91's:

http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L91AA&Category_Code=btcam

You have to get a lot of them to beat that price, but it makes me wonder, what brand 123's do you get for $1.60/ea. and how big a lot do you have to get to get that price?  I really only use L91's sparingly... in my headlamps really, as I like the weight they save me for that use, and for keeping on hand for emergency prep and the like.  I just don't like using primaries in general because of the waste they create, let alone the cost.  Unless I'm really trying to cut weight, like for a long or difficult hike, I use Duraloops usually. 

[NutSAK]

I use Eneloop/Duraloop most of the time too, with the exception of the light in my pocket, which I feed Li-Ion.

The last CR123s I bought at that price were a quantity of Streamlight brand cells, which are rebranded Ray-O-Vacs: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IXCO8K

OK, that calculates out to $1.69 each, but close enough.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hey SAK,

Thanks for all the info... I learn something new about this stuff every day.   

I just gotta cool my jets and fight the temptation to get more of these nifty toys, er, I mean tools... before my wife leaves me for running up the CC.   

Need to sit back and do some careful considering on what I really need for my EDC stuff, compared to what I *want*...

[NutSAK]

Trust me friend, I totally understand where you're coming from.