Good starter knife for 11 year old?

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hi all,

I would like to get this knife for my son, who is in scouts.

http://stores.hrknives.com/-strse-26076/Boker-Magnum-Youth-Elk/Detail.bok

Boker has a pretty good reputation, and this looks like it would be a good safe knife for him.  Unsharpened tip, good finger guard to prevent slippage, and small size so not to be too intimidating.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[captain spaulding]

Hi all,

I would like to get this knife for my son, who is in scouts.

http://stores.hrknives.com/-strse-26076/Boker-Magnum-Youth-Elk/Detail.bok

Boker has a pretty good reputation, and this looks like it would be a good safe knife for him.  Unsharpened tip, good finger guard to prevent slippage, and small size so not to be too intimidating.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

It really matters what he is going to be doing with it.

[Gareth]

Looks to be a good starter fixed blade to me actually.  

My first fixed blade (or sheath knife as it was know then) was something similar to this one:
http://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Boating_Knife.html
Also bought for me when I was 11 and joining the Scouts.  Never did myself any harm with it, despite the sharp point and lack of guard.   Sadly lost on a trip many years ago.

[airballrad]

That looks like a nice one!

I'm sure you're already aware from all the mandatory safety training, but just in case other Scout parents come across this thread: Policy (for BSA, at least) strongly discourages sheath knives for Scouts, and many Scout camps don't allow boys to carry them. 

[Sazabi]

What about a My First Opinel or My First Victorinox (Plus) or a DoE Compact-variant?

[Edit:  Conversely, a Case Sod Buster Jr., Victorinox Tinker (or Spartan, et al.), Mora of Sweden #511, EKA of Sweden slipjoint, or Leatherman Kick would all be good options, too.]

[Dtrain]

My Youngest when he was in Cub Scouts loved the SI I gave him...Seemed to work well at all the Camp Outs....He was always quite proude to say "It's a Swiss Army Knife"...Not too hard on the Pocket Book if he loses it...A few times he took his Mauser with him and everyone including the Das were fascinated.One thing that always amazed me was how a parent would skimp for no reason on a Multi or Pocket Knife then go nuts when said item broke under what I witnessed as normal use and later on at Dinner or just around the Campfire complain to high heaven about the cost of a Leatherman or a Case Boy Scout Knife. I would offer economical alternatives,such as Felinevet's Site but the same folks would buy another fine example of Ironmongery only to go through the same things a few weeks later. I say get him a decent example of cutlery such as a Soldier or even the New Soldier, set him up with a way to attach it to his body and re enforce the value and responsibilty involved. I have always preached to my two boys that the day will come when all you wil have to deal with a situation is what is in your head,and on your person and that suddenly wondering where your pocket knife is or why it's broken is the last thing you want to deal with.

[Zed]

I also would say a casexx sodbuster jnr or a #7-#8 opinel 

[airballrad]

IMHO, any good little SAK would be fine. I think it's better to start on a slip joint knife and let an appreciation for safety and proper usage precede locking blades. A younger Scout shouldn't need to baton firewood or skin a deer anyway; there are either better tools or an older Scout/Adult Leader should be involved in such projects.

Don't get me wrong; I love fixed blades and I even had a couple during my Scouting years. But I was not allowed to have one with me on Scout trips.

[AimlessWanderer]

IMHO, any good little SAK would be fine. I think it's better to start on a slip joint knife and let an appreciation for safety and proper usage precede locking blades. A younger Scout shouldn't need to baton firewood or skin a deer anyway; there are either better tools or an older Scout/Adult Leader should be involved in such projects.

Don't get me wrong; I love fixed blades and I even had a couple during my Scouting years. But I was not allowed to have one with me on Scout trips.

  I really wish more people shared this view.

I'm a firm believer that if you can't do the job with a slippie - you should be using a fixed blade knife not a folder. Locks are nice to have (if you prefer them - which personally I don't) but safe knife use beats a lock hands down every time.  I'd always recommend teaching anyone (irrespective of age) who is new to knives with a slippie first before letting them discover the hard way that locking blades aren't infallible.

If you'd both prefer him to have a fixed blade (and he's allowed to use it), I'd seriously suggest something like a Mora or something like the knife Gareth linked to (which you can get cheaper BTW). Something that doesn't matter if it gets wrecked, lost, stolen or whatever. Though by all means get him a "nice knife" too with the promise that it becomes his once he can use his starter knife competently 

[Gareth]

I couldn't agree more with the idea of teaching knife safety with a slip-joint knife first.  The others also make a good point in that, while I owned a sheath knife, it was almost always a pocket knife that I used. 

If you go down that SAK route then I'd go with a Huntsman/Fieldmaster myself.  If they're a little too thick for his hands then a Camper or Hiker would make a nice alternative. 

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks for the info guys.  I appreciate your thoughts.  The troop my son is in (he just finished his tenderfoot) allows their boys to carry fixed blades that are 4" or less, as long as they have done either the scouts knife training, or have earned their whittling chip in cubs.  (Leaders are allowed to carry fixed blades up to 6".) 

I actually did give my son a small SAK for earning his Arrow of Light in Cubs; a Recruit with blue scales and the BSA logo on it, we got from our local Scout Store.  He's leery of it though; doesn't want to possibly hurt himself closing it, and he says it's hard for him to open the blades on it.  I've tried working with him on it, teaching him proper handling and all, but he still has some gun-shyness about it, which I'm not sure what to do about.  He's familiar with my tools and knives, and knows they're just that, tools and not toys, but I still haven't been able to find a way to help him get over his reticence about using a folder, even a locking one.  So, I thought this might be a good compromise for him.

I guess the bottom line is I'll have to talk to him about it some more, work with him on using the Recruit he already has, and see how things go, and how he feels about it.  I spent a lot of time on my grandfather's apple farm when I was a kid, so I literally grew up around various kinds of knives and tools.  My grandpa gave me my first pocket knife, a little Schrade Old-Timer with two blades, when I was about 7 or 8, so I've been using and carrying various kinds of pocket knives and folders almost all my life.  I guess that's why I find my son's shyness around knives perplexing...  but he's a city kid, and although he loves going camping and doing stuff in scouts, perhaps it's just our different upbringings that's working against me here.

Regardless, thanks again for your input.  I'll talk with him about it again, and see what he says, and go from there.  You guys have given me a lot of good food for thought about how to proceed from here.  Thanks again.

[captain spaulding]

Did you son ever cut himself on accident? Maybe that is why he is shy around knives. Have you actually sat down and asked him why he is shy/scared of knives? I would assume he is just worried to get cut which I would assume he will grow out of once he gets more knife use under his belt and realizes there is nothing to be scared of.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Did you son ever cut himself on accident? Maybe that is why he is shy around knives. Have you actually sat down and asked him why he is shy/scared of knives? I would assume he is just worried to get cut which I would assume he will grow out of once he gets more knife use under his belt and realizes there is nothing to be scared of.

I don't think he has... at least not that he's mentioned to me.  He may have told my wife though, so I'll ask her.  He has a tendency to ask her sometimes for things he won't ask me for... not really sure why though.  Regardless, it's a good suggestion and I'll make sure to ask him about that.

[captain spaulding]

Did you son ever cut himself on accident? Maybe that is why he is shy around knives. Have you actually sat down and asked him why he is shy/scared of knives? I would assume he is just worried to get cut which I would assume he will grow out of once he gets more knife use under his belt and realizes there is nothing to be scared of.

I don't think he has... at least not that he's mentioned to me.  He may have told my wife though, so I'll ask her.  He has a tendency to ask her sometimes for things he won't ask me for... not really sure why though.  Regardless, it's a good suggestion and I'll make sure to ask him about that.

Let us know how it goes. 

[GraysonK]

It's hard, but remembering that far back for me, I can recall having difficulty opening the pocket knife my granddad gave me.  It was a trapper of some kind, but I recall it being so difficult for me to open because it was too hard and therefore it made me gun shy that I was going to cut myself.  Maybe you could tell him that when he is comfortable with the Recruit you and he will talk about getting him a different kind of knife.  It worked on me.  Eventually I practiced and practiced until I could open all the blade on that knife. 

[Cleanser]

I had my first knife when I was 5 or 6 it was a SAK. I remember very clearly my difficulty opening the blade because of spring of the SAK wanted to close the knife as I tried to open it.  It might seem difficult for an adult to understand that small weak hands and fingers have a really hard time opening the SAK.  I also remember having to open the SAK very awkwardly in a two stage motion. First I had to get the blade past the point that the spring tries to snap close and then I could finish opening it.  I did end up cutting myself pretty bad on one failed attempt but that didn't scare me away.  If I was going to buy a knife for a young kid I would look for one that didn't resist opening and didn't try to snap close in the opening process.

Edit:
Also another thing that bothered me (and still bothers me to this day!) was the feeling on the blade pulling back on my nail when using the nail nic.  For this reason, maybe a thumb stud or a hole in the blade might also be desired.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I had my first knife when I was 5 or 6 it was a SAK. I remember very clearly my difficulty opening the blade because of spring of the SAK wanted to close the knife as I tried to open it.  It might seem difficult for an adult to understand that small weak hands and fingers have a really hard time opening the SAK.  I also remember having to open the SAK very awkwardly in a two stage motion. First I had to get the blade past the point that the spring tries to snap close and then I could finish opening it.  I did end up cutting myself pretty bad on one failed attempt but that didn't scare me away.  If I was going to buy a knife for a young kid I would look for one that didn't resist opening and didn't try to snap close in the opening process.

Edit:
Also another thing that bothered me (and still bothers me to this day!) was the feeling on the blade pulling back on my nail when using the nail nic.  For this reason, maybe a thumb stud or a hole in the blade might also be desired.

Hey all, just a quick bump in this thread, cause cleanser's post here got me to thinking...

Any opinion about a Delica for my son?  I know he'll be cautious with it, and perhaps the Spyderhole would be a good way to help him get the blade open, not even one handed; he could do it two handed and have a greater amount of control, and it will also be easier to open and close that way.  Also, they just came out with the new orange FRN versions, and, goofy little guy that he is, orange is his favorite color.  Any thoughts?

[CQC-7]

I had my first knife when I was 5 or 6 it was a SAK. I remember very clearly my difficulty opening the blade because of spring of the SAK wanted to close the knife as I tried to open it.  It might seem difficult for an adult to understand that small weak hands and fingers have a really hard time opening the SAK.  I also remember having to open the SAK very awkwardly in a two stage motion. First I had to get the blade past the point that the spring tries to snap close and then I could finish opening it.  I did end up cutting myself pretty bad on one failed attempt but that didn't scare me away.  If I was going to buy a knife for a young kid I would look for one that didn't resist opening and didn't try to snap close in the opening process.



Edit:
Also another thing that bothered me (and still bothers me to this day!) was the feeling on the blade pulling back on my nail when using the nail nic.  For this reason, maybe a thumb stud or a hole in the blade might also be desired.

Hey all, just a quick bump in this thread, cause cleanser's post here got me to thinking...

Any opinion about a Delica for my son?  I know he'll be cautious with it, and perhaps the Spyderhole would be a good way to help him get the blade open, not even one handed; he could do it two handed and have a greater amount of control, and it will also be easier to open and close that way.  Also, they just came out with the new orange FRN versions, and, goofy little guy that he is, orange is his favorite color.  Any thoughts?

I think it is a great idea.  It is light, reliable with good steel, and I have used my delica as my goto work knife, treat it like crap (only because I have 2 and want to "test" it), and it is still good working blade in suprisingly good shape.  The Kershaw skyline is another blade that you may want to look at but if orange is his thing that delica may be the way to go.  If I am not mistaken Case offered a "scout knife" in orange G-10 if you still like slipjoint knives.  I also like my Vic Cadet in autumn orange.   

[Gareth]

My only concern is that the Delica (and most Spydercos) are very 'ergonomically' shaped and might not be comfortable for little hands?  Only a thought.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

My only concern is that the Delica (and most Spydercos) are very 'ergonomically' shaped and might not be comfortable for little hands?  Only a thought.

Thanks Gareth, I'll think about that.  He's getting bigger now... so I'm not sure if it will be a problem or not...  definitely worth considering though.  In general though, do you think the idea of the spyderhole will be a good one in terms of making it easier to open and close the blade?  It also occurred to me to consider getting one of their trainer models for him to practice with first.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I talked to my son a bit last night about this issue, and from what I could tell, his hesitancy about knives is over two issues.  One is ease of opening and closing; the Recruit that I got him last summer has been difficult for him to open, and he's afraid of cutting himself with it trying to close it, as it has a pretty strong spring in it for being a non-locking knife.  The other is that he's afraid that since it doesn't lock, he might hurt himself with it.

So I told him about the new orange Delica, and that it should be much easier for him to open and close, and that it has a locking blade so he wouldn't have to worry about it closing on him unexpectedly.  I also told him that I'd teach him how to use it, and practice with it so he felt comfortable with it.  I think too that while he's sprouting like a weed, he's still a bean-pole of a kid, and hasn't really started getting his real strength yet, and he's worried that he'll be strong enough to use the knife.  I'm sure he will be, and he's very coordinated... he's been in Tae Kwon Do for a year now, and has already earned four belts.  So I know he can to it.  I just have to figure out how to help him do it.  So, here goes... wish me luck... I ordered an orange Delica 4 FFG for him last night, and I'll give it to him as a present when I go back home to be with my family for a week while I have some time off from my work.  I'm hoping it will be something nice for him to have with his boyscouts activities.

Thanks for the help with all this.  It's been a bit of a challenge figuring out what to do with this... find ways to have a good dad/son experience with him over this. 

Just another reason I've come to love this place...   

[Styerman]

Probably a SAK , Spartan or Tinker Small . As he shows more interest , take it from there .

Chris

[Cleanser]

I don't think the delica is the best knife for doing stuff like whittling but I think it will be much easier for his hands to manipulate. 

[Styerman]

I'd rather see a kid learn on a slipjoint , he will learn valuable habits that will carry over to his first locker . Mainly; to treat all folding creatures as slip joints , not to over rely on any mechanical system .

Chris

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

I'd rather see a kid learn on a slipjoint , he will learn valuable habits that will carry over to his first locker . Mainly; to treat all folding creatures as slip joints , not to over rely on any mechanical system .

Chris

That's a good idea... I hadn't thought of that.  One thing my wife and I have been successful at with him is teaching him the importance of safety.  I don't think he'll use any knife I give him carelessly.  He has a blue Recruit that I gave him for earning his Arrow of Light in Cubs, but he has problems opening it because of the spring tension in it, and he's afraid of hurting himself since it's not a locking blade.

At this point in time though, it's kind of moot.  The orange FRN Delica FFG I ordered from Knifecenter won't make it to me before I fly back home for my visit.  (I work in Iowa right now, while my family is still in California.) 

So I'm going to have to wait until I go back home for Thanksgiving to give it to him.  In the mean time, I'll talk with him about it when I'm back home, and go from there.

(As a side rant, I'm a little miffed at Knifecenter about this...  I placed the order last Friday, and it didn't ship until today.  I had expected a bit of a quicker turn around time from them.  I would have ordered it from Jeff at Cutlery Shoppe, but his site showed he was out of them by the time I went to place an order.  Not only would I have saved money, but I'm sure that I'd have gotten it sooner, as he's nearer to me than where Knifecenter is; the Dragonfly 2 I bought from him was here by the second day after I placed the order.)

[CQC-7]

Knifecenter did that with my order a few weeks ago.  I ordered a spyderco balance and a fisher space pen.  The pen showed in stock but was out of stock i guess and instead of shipping the knife while the pen was backordered, they were just going to wait so i cancelled my order and ordered my MPR instead.