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Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!

au Offline MultiMat

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Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
on: December 27, 2011, 08:59:07 AM
As of December the 14th new knife importation laws came into effect. Flipper knives are now illegal to import into Oz & fall under the Flick knife grouping  :( :(. So no more flippers for me , including Leatherman 'Blade Launcher' knives  :( :( :(. What is REALLY concerning is the wording of the new laws which refers to banning one handed opening blades  ??? ??? >:( >:( >:(. The problem is Aussie Custom's , which I suspect had a hand in formulating the new laws, definition of one handed opening is not the same as the knife industries  :ahhh :ahhh.

It has been a problem for a long time when buying a knife from overseas , it's legality often fell onto the individual Customs agent's assessment. To this end a lot of knives got assesed as being 'flick knives' & confiscated. Apparently one of the flick knife tests involoved this 'test', I think this test will also be used to determine a knife's OHO status  :think: ;


So in the past people have bought a batch of identical knives & had some pass & others fail , proberbly due to knives having differant pivot tension on the blade  :think: or maybe customs agent's arm got tired  ::) ::).Talk about ridiculous  >:( >:(.

Another concern is the new use of the term One Handed Opening, there is some talk that all Spyderco folding knives with the blade hole will be deemed illegal. I contacted Australia's Leatherman distributor, Zen Imports, about what is happening regarding Leathwerman's OHO MT's. They got back to me the next day  :o 8) & said they have 'meetings' scheduled in early January & hope to have MTs exempted from the new importation laws  8) , I am not sure how they can do this given  the new regulations are written law  :think: :think: :think:.Zen said they are no longer importing OHO Spydercos  :( :(.

The thing that worries me is the chance of illegal to import becoming illegal too own  :think: >:( >:(. The truly maddening thing is it is all politics & the new laws will make absolutely no difference to knife crime or knife attacks. Most knife assaults in Australia occur as domestic disputes with kitchen knives being the weapon used or some scumbag using a $5 knife bought/stolen  from a supermarket or camping store.Complete political BS in my opinion.

There is a awful lot of confusion around these new laws , hopefully in the next month or two the authorities will clarify the state of play. I am hoping Aussie Customs becomes a bit more transparent in their practices & actually modifies their knife assessment practises  :think: :think:
Sad times.

Mat.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 09:07:50 AM by MultiMat »

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gb Offline Farmman

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Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 09:31:48 AM
That sucks big time matt.


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 09:41:41 AM
Sadly I can see this happening here as well at some point in the future, and it'll make absolutely no diference here either. :(  The only thing I'd keep in mind is that normally Laws are not enforced retrospectively, so I can't see you having to turn in your old stuff.
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bn Offline jojotlc

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 10:05:29 AM
Same thing here, when i started to get curious questions about  lockable 111mm Vics, which is differs slightly to Mat's post. I did manage to get away with MTO SwissGrip though (its like a machete when opened up)!.
The only thing i'm not doing yet is not to bring in fixed knifes/blades which is not more than 3" , which currently i had no intention 'yet'.

If it starts in Australia, it will surely trickle down to Asian region, and or buying it from registered Authorised dealers..
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dk Offline AHB

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 10:59:54 AM
Welcome to Denmark Mat...  :( :(
The knife laws here was sadly enforced retrospectively, so OHO, flippers ect. are indeed illegal to own even in your sock drawer...  :P Zippo marketing which is Danish distributor for Leatherman sends OHO tools which is returned to them for warranty, directly to the police and your'll be looking at a fine for about $800-$1000.. Hopefully your politicians have a little more common sense than ours.. ::) ::)


cy Offline dks

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 12:35:53 PM
In the UK there was a stabbing yesterday in public, with the use of a"flick" knife.....
 >:(
I can see  the anti-knife lot getting excited as we type....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4022099/Horror-on-Oxford-Street-Teenager-is-stabbed-to-death-at-the-sales.html

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au Offline MultiMat

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 12:52:04 PM
dks I would not be surprised if the murder weapon was not the folding knife pictured  :think: & that could just as easily be a folding knife that the media has labelled a flick knife  :think: :think:.
That sounds like a horrendous crime  :( :( :(. It does highlight that endless laws , CCTV & banning knives will not stop violent crime  :think: :think:

Gareth I think most knife collections should be safe , actually using your knives outside your private residence is only going to get tougher I reckon  :(.

jojotic Aussie knife restrictions seem to focus on blade deployment than blade length , maybe we can thank Crocodile Dundee for that  :think: :P.

Allan politicians with 'common sense' surly you jest  :P :D.

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00 Offline Carlos

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 01:00:26 PM
These kind of laws only prevent "good" people to possess knives (or weapons, in general). Every mug and criminal out there will continue to have them, because they don't use the legal restricted channels to get them.


gb Offline nuphoria

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
More BS, less shinies.... why don't they just put an age limit on these things instead of a ban?
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 01:25:34 PM
very disappointing indeed, please keep us informed of how this develops Mat and if any form of clarity is achieved. My own views (without getting political which of course is a risk for this topic) is that OHO is a very important feature for many tasks and circumstances. In a working environment e.g. Up a ladder, there isn't always the option to safely use two hands to delpoy a knife. Working with ropes this goes more from convenience to an essential and potentially life saving feature. We (the rational people) must also consider those who for whatever reason are permanantly limited to the use of one arm in all their daily activities. Where the ability to use and carry (legally) a fixed blade knife, these laws will not inhibit peoples lives "too much", but unfortunately I don't hold out much hope for that in many places. I have said for a long time I do not feel to restricted by my own local rules and regs, but like others am fearful of what the future might hold


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au Offline MultiMat

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 02:11:43 PM
I think a lot of modern/urbanised communities see knives as weapons first than tools  :(, media coverage does not help either  ::) >:(.

I think Aussie soldiers,emergency workers & police are exempt from the restrictions & are able to purchase/import OHO knives , I need to check that though. Al I agree about OHO  is a highly desirable & convenient/safe way of deploying a blade. I would be really pissed if we loose it.

Allan are emergency personnel like firemen,search & rescue etc allowed to own OHO knives in Denmark  :think: 

Zen Imports have said they would get back to me about the new laws & how they impact on Leatherman MTs. I will post updates as I get them  :tu:

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 02:54:26 PM
That sucks Mat.
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dk Offline AHB

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 03:02:45 PM
Not even police, firemen ect. are allowed to carry anything OHO.. :(
What really sucks is that Leatherman sold OH tools here in Denmark until 2004 and now they don't even want to change the blades to 2HO for tools bought legally back then..  :P
So much for 25 years warranty and "customer service".  :P


ca Offline Chako

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 03:06:26 PM
Ouch Allan. That is bad.  :o

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 03:12:08 PM
That is truly horrible Mat.  I can see both sides of it though, although I do not think for an instant the banning/over-regulation of bladed items has any actual fact to it.

The bottom line is that politics is a popularity contest- a way to see who can kiss the most arse, and the way to do that is to do something that has the most visible and immediate effect, not to actually solve problems.  For example, if the government put effort into raising the standard of living by encouraging more companies to open facilities in Oz to increase the number of well paying jobs, there would be a corresponding decrease in violent crime as people wouldn't have to mug each other to pay their bills.  But, the various companies would get most of the credit and the politicians wouldn't seem like they were doing anything.

Scenario two is that they "react" to violent crime by banning knives, guns, pitbulls, you name it.  Then they look like they are getting tough on criminals, they get interviewed and advocacy groups do some extra promo work for them, like you are doing now.  That creates an image of a governing body that is "doing what needs to be done, regardless of whether it's popular or not" and makes them seem like heroes.  Plus, the problem still exists, so they can start it up again in six months when their image starts to droop, and all they have to do is talk about the staggering number of people killed with cast iron cookery and issue a ban on frying pans as well.

Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about this, but if it's any help whatsoever Mat, please send on my contact info to Zen and let them know that we would be happy to help with any reference material or anything else they may need to make their case. 

Def
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il Offline Threeme2189

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 03:43:22 PM
  Plus, the problem still exists, so they can start it up again in six months when their image starts to droop, and all they have to do is talk about the staggering number of people killed with cast iron cookery and issue a ban on frying pans as well.

Sadly, I can actually see that happening in the future :(
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ca Online Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 03:49:08 PM
If it's not fry pans, it will be fire place pokers, garden gnomes or metal framed sunglasses.  It's always something....   ::)

Def
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us Offline turnsouth

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #17 on: December 27, 2011, 06:59:42 PM
Stabbed by new knife laws
Quote
NEW knife laws, expected to come in to force next year, could see those in possession of a pocket knife in public facing a criminal record.

The ALP proposed the law change, with the LNP backing it all the way, but Katter's Australian Party has deemed it "utterly ridiculous".

The Weapons Act 1990 states 'a person may carry a pen knife or Swiss army knife for use for its normal utility purposes', but that will not be acceptable under the new laws.

The new law will state that anyone caught carrying a pocket knife in public could be forced to explain to police why they have it in their possession.

The new laws involve an expanded definition of a flick knife to include any knife that opens by being shaken and also knives deemed by police to have been designed as a weapon.

Co-owner of Warwick Outdoor and Sports Wayne Eastwell said knives were an important part of his retail operations and the law would not only damage sales, but did not make sense.

"It all comes down to common sense - saying a farmer can't carry a pocket knife is ridiculous," Mr Eastwell said.

"At the end of the day, if someone is going to attack someone with a knife they will, whether it be a pocket knife or a bread and butter knife."

"The only people this will affect is law-abiding people," he said.

Local farmer Tom Graham said he was firmly against the idea of banning pocket knives.

"I'm dead against it, it's ridiculous," Mr Graham said.

He said he always wore a knife on his belt, and without it he "wouldn't feel dressed".

"You can't print what I'd like to say about those people down in Canberra if that's what they're proposing," Mr Graham said.

National Public Relations Manager for Katter's Australian Party Scott Barrett said enforcing the law was a "restriction of freedom".

"It's purely a political game they're playing to give us further restrictions. It's not criminals that will be targeted by this; it's farmers and fishermen who might have a knife in their tackle box, or tradies who have one on their tool belt," he said.

Pocket knives that can only be opened with two hands will still be acceptable if they pass the police public place test, but those that qualify on the 'banned list' will have to be handed in, or owners risk being charged with possession of an illegal weapon.

Under the new legislation, people can apply for a special licence to carry their old pocket knife in public so long as they can demonstrate an occupational requirement.

State leader for Katter's Australian Party Aidan McLindon said that would affect as many as half a million Queenslanders.

"When these laws come into force, around 50,000 people will instantly become criminals," he said.
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ca Online Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #18 on: December 27, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Apply for a pocket knife permit?  That's hilarious- or at least it would be were it not so painfully sad.



That's not a knife- if it were I'd have my ID card on me with proper authorization to legally carry it....

Def
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #19 on: December 27, 2011, 08:45:02 PM
That's really sad.  This sounds like the stupid long gun registry we got here.  It was due to a bunch of shootings at the time, and they implemented the registry to APPEAR to be doing something about gun crime.. which of course did nothing since law abiding people dont kill people with legally owned guns that they registered.  Same for knives.   I assume this is political BS for you guys too, was there a rise in knife crime or something?

I always thought austraio was cool!! In the movies they make it seem like the wild west sometimes and you can live in the wild.  I have dreamed of going there to visit.  Have movies and tv lied to me?
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us Offline getahl

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #20 on: December 27, 2011, 09:07:56 PM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone contacted Doug Ritter and Knife Rights about any of this occurring in Oz, the EU, and elsewhere? I couldn't find a quick and dirty answer on their website if only operate domestically, or what their jurisdiction or scope of responsibility really is.

I feel for everyone who has suffered the consequences for the actions of the few, and count myself thankful I still have the ability to carry what I want, more or less. Still, there's no telling what may come to pass further down the road. I do live in California, after all heh.


Offline Peter

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 11:13:38 AM
I blame the immigration laws.


gb Offline Zed

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 11:19:17 AM
In the UK there was a stabbing yesterday in public, with the use of a"flick" knife.....
 >:(
I can see  the anti-knife lot getting excited as we type....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4022099/Horror-on-Oxford-Street-Teenager-is-stabbed-to-death-at-the-sales.html

Here we go again, a ban on OHO now  :-\ lucky i ordered my Tool logic yesterday , it is my only OHO knife ill have oh and the little grasshopper i have coming  :ahhh and there was me trying to stick to uk under 3inches and non locking laws  :-\  so yes it sucks Mat, here in the uk we need to sort out all the chavy nobs who effect the laws,


cy Offline dks

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 03:18:13 PM
In the UK there was a stabbing yesterday in public, with the use of a"flick" knife.....
 >:(
I can see  the anti-knife lot getting excited as we type....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4022099/Horror-on-Oxford-Street-Teenager-is-stabbed-to-death-at-the-sales.html

Here we go again, a ban on OHO now  :-\ lucky i ordered my Tool logic yesterday , it is my only OHO knife ill have oh and the little grasshopper i have coming  :ahhh and there was me trying to stick to uk under 3inches and non locking laws  :-\  so yes it sucks Mat, here in the uk we need to sort out all the chavy nobs who effect the laws,

And the funny think is that practically all the people that I knew that were looking for or looking out for trouble carried anything but a knife.....
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ca Online Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 03:59:53 PM
Is this the kind of thing that is only going to be enforced in the cities?  It seems to me that in more rural areas (like the small villages and loose associated townships we often think of when the rest of the world thinks about Australia!) there are some significantly dangerous animals and long spaces between hotels where one might really appreciate having a good knife- and more.  Or does that fall under the "lawful excuse" segment?

Def
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cy Offline dks

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 04:38:35 PM
So which one of these two are Aussies going around with then..   ???     :D



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au Offline mvyrmnd

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Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 09:43:29 PM
Is this the kind of thing that is only going to be enforced in the cities?  It seems to me that in more rural areas (like the small villages and loose associated townships we often think of when the rest of the world thinks about Australia!) there are some significantly dangerous animals and long spaces between hotels where one might really appreciate having a good knife- and more.  Or does that fall under the "lawful excuse" segment?

Def

I think that a "lawful excuse" being valid is at the discretion of the police officer at the time.

The problem stems mostly from Melbourne and Sydney. Melbourne has a growing 'knife culture' where dipsmurf teenagers are carrying knifes for "safety".

I firmly believe that anyone who carries a knife for the explicit purpose of self defense is a complete and utter moron.

I live in a regional area in Victoria, where the police are as likely to shoot you as offer you a speeding ticket. I carry a Kershaw OSO Sweet - an assisted flipper - but I don't expect to be in trouble. If I don't offer the cops a reason to search me, then they'll never know I carry it.

If I go to Melbourne, it stays at home. The cops there have set up metal detectors at train stations, and have been given permission to stop and search anyone at any time for any reason in some areas of the city.
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Offline Peter

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 09:53:45 PM
So which one of these two are Aussies going around with then..   ???     :D

(Image removed from quote.)
None of the above. You can't walk around with any knife in the land of OZ. You need a reason to carry a knife eg hunting/camping, you can't have a fixed blade in a National Park {where most people go camping/ bushwalking in OZ}.This just drives me mad :rant:.


Offline Peter

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 10:11:56 PM
Mvyrmnd i was in Melbourne {Footscray lucky me  :rofl:} Whenever you went out of a night, you took your life in your  hands. The Sudanese would attack anyone they thaught couldn't defend themself.


ca Online Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Aussie Knife owners/enthusiasts get shafted !!
Reply #29 on: December 31, 2011, 12:22:07 AM
So how does this affect a multitool?  While a folding plier tool or SAK could be used as a weapon, they are not terribly ideal nor are they threatening.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


 

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