Why not pliers heads in D-2?

[bobofish]

I was just goofing off on the internet (ok, I was looking at knives) and a thought occurred to me....I've heard that among other reasons, Leatherman doesn't make their pliers heads out of tool steel because it's prone to rust for people who don't own a can of WD-40. Why then not just use some nice D-2? As I understand it, it's a borderline stainless, so all Leatherman would have to do is include a little can of rust proofing, or clear coat the head to make it idiot proof.

Or more adventurously, since Leatherman has been going towards a duo-tone duo-material look on their recent offerings, why not just black coat the pliers head and leave the rest of the knife stainless? I can envision the Charge series as a perfect line to do such a thing; they have the black anodized scales, stainless liners and tools, and why not a black coated D-2 pliers head?

On that note, for me the perfect Charge, and the only one at this moment I can see myself replacing my current XTi with would be a preferably Ti scaled charge with a black coated (but not neccessarily) D-2 Pliers head and at least a 154CM Serrated/Gut Hook. Since the TTi is the current top end of Leatherman's offerings, they could either update it to these specs, or replace it with a "TiD" or something. As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't even say no to carbon fiber scales. I can see an idiot like myself paying a fair amount for such a tool and being very happy with it.

Now that I regularly carry a good folder, I almost never use the plain edge on the Charge; my 154CM is plenty good, or on the new TTi s30v. I'm constantly opening packages or cutting open trout bellies with the gut hook though, so it would be nice to have a little bump in the performance.

Thoughts? Is this mindless blather?

p.s. If the kind folks at Leatherman are reading this and like the idea, I'll happily send you my address for a prototype copy for vigorous testing and lifelong enjoyment. 

[J-sews]

What are you seeing as the advantages of a D2 plier head Bobo?

[bobofish]

Simply stated, hardness way superior to the nuts, bolts and thingamajigs that you use the pliers head on...
It's not as if the current pliers heads aren't useful, but I don't get the same tough toothiness that I do with say Klein pliers. The teeth on my charge aren't exactly warped, but they are a touch disfigured from some of the more knarly things I've used them on.

I'm not sure if this is just uninformed wishful thinking, but I wouldn't mind some kind of carbide coating on the actual face of the pliers and wire cutter either.

[J-sews]

Ahh! Okay, I agree with you about the advantage of D2 or other tool steel for the plier jaws. More hardness is better, especially for the wire cutter section.

On a related note, have you ever checked out these premium fishing pliers from Abel? Link = http://abelreels.com/pages/pliers.htm#

They use tool steel inserts in the plier jaws and point out the same advantages that you are talking about.

[Speaker]

I can see their reasons for not using D2 or similar steels on pliers.
They sacrifice hardness for toughness. I personally prefer that the teeth on my Charge pliers mash rather than chip when used on some hard ass nuts, bolts, etc.
On a larger scale, that means that, if used under serious load/torque, the pliers will distort but not break.

Knives and pliers are two different stories. They are exposed to different types of loads. While D2 is great for a knife (I really like my knives made of D2), it is less desirable on pliers.

On the other hand, I would like to have harder wire cutters - carbide coating or inserts of harder material.

IMHO.

[Sea Monster]

It only just really occurred to me then when you mentioned paying more for carbon fibre and such, that it is a bit odd I avoid paying $150 for a Multitool, but will happily pay $200 for a nice 15" Adjustable spanner...


Maybe it is the metal eh? I see Multitools as tools with a limited life of service. I buy Pliers, spanners, etc with the expectation of lifelong use, but I'd be surprised to get three years out of a Multi.

Of course, up until recently, I'd been using (aside from SAKs) multitools that don't come with any sort of reliable warranty or reputation.

I wonder what the addition costs of these kind of materials would be? Would it push Multitools into a land of respect by all tool users, and not just us batty folk.

[bobofish]

I have seen those Abel pliers. Abel makes some great great stuff.
Frankly though, although the teeth on a Lingcod are definitely nasty, they're not nasty enough for me to desperately need a special hand machined plier. My charge works fine....

If D-2 is too brittle, then like I said they could just use good strong tool steel and hard coat the pliers head like I said.

I can't imagine the costs are too astronomical. I would imagine the steel would add a few dollars in materials costs and up to 20 for machining costs if they didn't cast them. Then the CF they're using on the Skeletool anyway, it has to cost less than titanium; the rise in Ti prices was one of the reasons to change the whole charge line anyway.

I can easily imagine a charge with hard coat tool steel pliers, s30v plain edge, 154cm gut hook/serrated blade and carbon fiber scales with an msrp of 200-215 and a street price of 165-180. I would easily pay such an amount for a truly "premium" charge that was the shizzle of the nizzle.

[Sea Monster]

I can easily imagine a charge with hard coat tool steel pliers, s30v plain edge, 154cm gut hook/serrated blade and carbon fiber scales with an msrp of 200-215 and a street price of 165-180. I would easily pay such an amount for a truly "premium" charge that was the shizzle of the nizzle.

You pay more than that for an hour of sin, an abortion, a buffet dinner, a set of tyres, a suit, or the cooperation of an irishman.

If you can get a premium tool for that price it's a bargin.

[bobofish]

So that's why the Irishmen weren't cooperating! I offered them too little! 

[Benner]

Maybe it is the metal eh? I see Multitools as tools with a limited life of service. I buy Pliers, spanners, etc with the expectation of lifelong use, but I'd be surprised to get three years out of a Multi.

I'm sure you would feel different if you carried a Swisstool. 

[BIG-TARGET]

But isn't D-2 almost as cost prohibitive as Titanium??

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

It is very expensive, and just how many plier heads has anyone really broken anyway

I'm not having a dig at your idea mate, but it's just one more not really neccassary thing to drive the price of the tool up

[bobofish]

Of the old design pliers, plenty of people. The new design is much stronger and I don't think any but the most extreme abuse would break it. That's not the issue.

The issue for me, maybe it's a nonstarter for others, is that having tool steel would make the teeth of the jaws, the wire cutters, etc. just that much "bitier." As I look at the micro teeth on my charge, they're a little mashed and mangled, and not as grippy as they used to be. Good tool steel would also mash over time, but much less so. It's the same principle as using s30v, zdp189, etc. People don't really NEED exotic steels in knives, but it is flashier, "cooler," and for some people a definite useful increase in performance.

And D-2 is not NEARLY as expensive as titanium. A billet big enough for two pliers costs what, $10?

And Leatherman wouldn't have to use it on all their tools, just like they don't use s30v on all their tools, or for that matter titanium. This could be their "halo" model, just like Ford had the new 40 or the shelby mustang. Even if most people don't buy it, many people admire such a Halo product, and people also get a perception of higher ability from the company because they CAN build something amazing.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

You do make a good point mate