Something rotten at Bear and Sons Cutlery?

[jekostas]

Well, this one is kinda weird.  Went to my favorite sharp and shiny store the other day for the first time in about a month, and I saw that they're starting to carry Bear and Sons knives - slipjoints, fixed blades and some locking folders as well.

Apparently, a lot of the stuff that Bear and Sons is advertising as "Genuine India Stag" is in fact jigged cowbone, not stag.  This is from the rep as well.

Why exactly would they do that?

[Steinar]

Because they can get away with it, since most people can't tell the difference? I smell lack of professional integrity...

[captain spaulding]

That's disappointing. 

[MultiMat]

It would be interesting to send them a email asking for explicit clarification  .

Could it be what the whole industry is doing 

[dks]

Colt was selling "black stag" etc.  slipjoints, without making it really clear (or at least the sellers weren't) that it was actually cow bone. I bought a couple and it was pointed out to me by our resident slipjoint expert that it was not actually stag...



when the name stag is used without something like imitation or fake etc next to it you are being, even a bit, mislead...

[jekostas]

Colt was selling "black stag" etc.  slipjoints, without making it really clear (or at least the sellers weren't) that it was actually cow bone. I bought a couple and it was pointed out to me by our resident slipjoint expert that it was not actually stag...

(Image removed from quote.)

when the name stag is used without something like imitation or fake etc next to it you are being, even a bit, mislead...

Hadn't heard that story before.  I wonder if this practice is more widespread than is really known as MultiMat said.

[django.cj]

How is that not false advertising?

[jzmtl]

Industry standard? You know like how all digital storage is calculated as 1000 to the next unit instead of 1024.

[jekostas]

Maybe they just name all the cows "Genuine India Stag"

[Biru]

Slightly off topic, but I'm still ticked at Bear after contacting them last month to order parts for a Bear Jaws. Back before the Victorinox acquisition and sell-off, they had fair customer service. You'd get a reasonably pleasant person who would take your order, charge your card and then you'd get the order with 80% of the order correct and the other 20% workable.

This time I got put on hold and they never picked up and when I emailed them they sent me some glad-hand reply that had nothing to do with the email, promised to contact me and never did.

On the other hand, it's made carrying the BJ's easier since I don't plan on purchasing a replacement if it's lost.

[kitbeard]

I've got a small Bear and Son 3 inch stockman and it's a nice knife, good F&F and in all ways comparable to a similar case knife I've had for a couple of years.  The Bear has thin, very even scales and I've not seen that with stag scales before.  I've got a couple of genuine stag handled knives and the materials just don't look or feel the same.  The Bear's scales were described as "Genuine India Stag" but it's Genuine India Stag that I think hasn't ever been on a deer in India. 

As I said, the Bear's a nice knife (better in some respects than a similar sized Case in my collection) and I'm still tempted by their 4th Generation 3.5 inch red bone congress but this sort of 'creative' approach to describing products doesn't actually help the reputation of a company if and when it becomes known. 

Given that there are so many knife and knife related fora are around these days and the way that bad news tends to outweigh good news, it strikes me that using dodgy or exagerated claims can unravel on a company very easily.  One good thing at least about the global village.

[dks]

I made a post about 10 months (?) ago with various pictures of Stag Scales, including some fake stag scales. I do not want to drag that zombie post up again, but if you want to look at various types of Stag Scales from a few makers look it up in the Edged tools forum (here). 

[kitbeard]

Dks, thanks for this.  Although I've only got two stag handled knives at the moment, I've bought and/or handled quite a few knives with stag handles/scales over the years from a Bowie through to an Ablett in imitation stag and I've seen a lot of images of different types of stag handles and scales.  It's partly this and having handled the Bear Stockman that leads me to think (and I could be wrong) it has bone as oppposed to stag scales.  I recall coming across a stag finish for bone handles and I think that this what has been used on my Bear and Sons knife. 

If I am wrong  about the issue, I'd be glad to be put right but this thread sort of crystalised a few concerns I've had.  In terms of my actual knife, the nature of the scales make little difference in terms of using the knife.  It's a well made small stockman, with good walk and talk and a standard of fit and finish that surprised me.  As I've said, I'd buy another Bear and Sons knife because the issue for me isn't about the quality of a product,  it's about whether the claims about using stag (something that has connotations of quality, exclusivity and even luxury) rather than bone (a more mundane, common-place material) can be accepted as valid given the information that led to this thread being started.

[dks]

I bought a few stag knives when I was going through a Stag phase...., though I still buy Stag knives I do not actively search for them. Possibly a nice Stag scaled SAK  ...

As you said bone (even in fake stag form) or synthetic materials will probably be better on an actual working knife, though not so nice. Also look into horn and other animal antlers too!

Avoid plastic "stag"... 

[kitbeard]

I do like the idea of a stag scaled SAK and think Samba stag would look particularly good on a SAK.