World war two aviation

[bobofish]

As for the nukes, don't forget that German subs were going back and forth to Long Island with near impunity. And also don't forget that there were several communities of Nazi sympathizers on Long Island that could've potentially smuggled a bomb into NY. The Nazi sympathizers and their fortunately fruitless deeds are a story not particularly often told. History has faded on the losers and we forget just how many people were rooting for the Krauts.

The single most influential thing that kept the war on our side was that Hitler invaded Russia. I don't mean to say that Russia would have fought the Allies, but rather that more than half of Hitler's power was sucked away fighting the Russians. Also if he had had at least polite relations with Russia he would've had access to oil, all the aluminium he needed, and who knows what else. Despite all the famines, Ukraine was still a bread basket before the war. It's hard to overestimate the impact of hunger on a fighting force; the Allies for the most part had full bellies, whereas by D-Day the Germans were already deep into rationing, with much worse to come.

The single biggest thing that kept the war swinging towards us was the leadership of the single dumbest military commander the Earth has ever seen. I've heard so many people say that Hitler was a genius, and I have yet to find even the slightest grain of truth in that. The man was not only a fruitloop, he was also a hopelessly incompetent rube sucked into his own personality cult. We had numerous chances to clip him, and turned them down. The Polish Resistance had him in their sights a couple times, and Churchill turned them down. Simply stated, as a military commander he was better than any high level mole or decryption device we could have ever had. The man was a complete and total idiot for invading Russia, declaring war on the US, you name it. Of course what do you expect from a man who first expelled and then killed all the best and brightest in Europe?

Incidentally Stalin was a pretty pisspoor commander himself; as an example, in I think '37 he killed almost every single one of his commanders above lieutenant, including some of the best most experienced generals and fieldmarshals in the world. Consequently he had an army led by mostly seargents with no battle experience, and especially none against the Germans. After the annexation of the eastern half of Poland, he killed the entire officer corps of eastern Poland, also men of great quality and experience. The fact of the matter is that if Stalin had not been Premier, the Soviet Union would have rolled over Hitler like a speedbump. Instead millions died and the residents of St. Petersburg had to resort to cannibalism and eating sawdust from 17th century furniture.

My grandfather, who fought in both world wars for Russia and then the Soviet Union used to say how there were always two Soviet armies at any battle with the Germans; in WWI the second army was there to hold spontaneous revolutionaries at bay, and in WWII one that had 1 gun for every 3 soldiers and few if any boots, and another army behind that one to shoot anybody who ran backwards either to get away from the bullets or to actually acquire a gun.

There are good reasons why idiots like Hitler and Stalin are often put together in the same sentence. At least Germany has been forced to learn some lessons and become democratic and peaceful. Seen the recent Russian elections?

[BIG-TARGET]

My late father waqs with the 482nd Bomb group"Pathfinders", 8th air force, out of Alcunberry.
http://mighty8thaf.preller.us/php/1Unit.php?Unitkey=482

[BIG-TARGET]

As for the nukes, don't forget that German subs were going back and forth to Long Island with near impunity. And also don't forget that there were several communities of Nazi sympathizers on Long Island that could've potentially smuggled a bomb into NY. The Nazi sympathizers and their fortunately fruitless deeds are a story not particularly often told. History has faded on the losers and we forget just how many people were rooting for the Krauts.

The single most influential thing that kept the war on our side was that Hitler invaded Russia. I don't mean to say that Russia would have fought the Allies, but rather that more than half of Hitler's power was sucked away fighting the Russians. Also if he had had at least polite relations with Russia he would've had access to oil, all the aluminium he needed, and who knows what else. Despite all the famines, Ukraine was still a bread basket before the war. It's hard to overestimate the impact of hunger on a fighting force; the Allies for the most part had full bellies, whereas by D-Day the Germans were already deep into rationing, with much worse to come.

The single biggest thing that kept the war swinging towards us was the leadership of the single dumbest military commander the Earth has ever seen. I've heard so many people say that Hitler was a genius, and I have yet to find even the slightest grain of truth in that. The man was not only a fruitloop, he was also a hopelessly incompetent rube sucked into his own personality cult. We had numerous chances to clip him, and turned them down. The Polish Resistance had him in their sights a couple times, and Churchill turned them down. Simply stated, as a military commander he was better than any high level mole or decryption device we could have ever had. The man was a complete and total idiot for invading Russia, declaring war on the US, you name it. Of course what do you expect from a man who first expelled and then killed all the best and brightest in Europe?

Incidentally Stalin was a pretty pisspoor commander himself; as an example, in I think '37 he killed almost every single one of his commanders above lieutenant, including some of the best most experienced generals and fieldmarshals in the world. Consequently he had an army led by mostly seargents with no battle experience, and especially none against the Germans. After the annexation of the eastern half of Poland, he killed the entire officer corps of eastern Poland, also men of great quality and experience. The fact of the matter is that if Stalin had not been Premier, the Soviet Union would have rolled over Hitler like a speedbump. Instead millions died and the residents of St. Petersburg had to resort to cannibalism and eating sawdust from 17th century furniture.

My grandfather, who fought in both world wars for Russia and then the Soviet Union used to say how there were always two Soviet armies at any battle with the Germans; in WWI the second army was there to hold spontaneous revolutionaries at bay, and in WWII one that had 1 gun for every 3 soldiers and few if any boots, and another army behind that one to shoot anybody who ran backwards either to get away from the bullets or to actually acquire a gun.

There are good reasons why idiots like Hitler and Stalin are often put together in the same sentence. At least Germany has been forced to learn some lessons and become democratic and peaceful. Seen the recent Russian elections?

And what is truly scary about people like Hitler and Stalin, is that they didn't see themselves as evil.
Those 2, along with all dictators past and present, See them selves as as a person with a grand vision for the betterment of their world, and/or the worldin general.
They just don't sit around all day going:"Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! I am evil!!!"

Also, As far as attacking the CONUS itself. The Italian Navy's 10 light Flotilla(Their version of the UDT/SEALS, and one of the most successful units among the axis powers) was planning to attack port cities along the east coast.  In fact the Submarine Leonardo Da Vinci was being refitted(extended range, Capable of carrying the "human torpedos" along equipment) at La Rochelle France at the time Italy surrendered.
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Decima.html

[I'm Still Bison]

Gota love tiffies

Thread split as requested

An old friend of mine,now deceased flew Tiffies in 181 Sqn. He said one of his great thrills was blowing up trains,he loved watching the steam locomotives going up.As great as the Typhoon was,the Tempest was even better,and neither could hold a candle to the later Sea Fury.
 One of my favorite movies is 633 Sqn.,it's rarely shown anymore;I fell in love with Mossies at a very young age.One of the all time most beautiful piston engine aircraft is the follow on to the Mosquito,the DH Hornet..think of a Mosquito that's been refined and and even sleeker.

[ducktapehero]

My favorite WWII fighter was the P-38.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-38

My grandfather had a friend who was a P-38 mechanic during the war and was always telling tales and showing pics. I was under 10 at the time so it was fascinating to me. It still is.

[Dunc]

Micky thanks for splitting this thread    Funny how a snap shot I took last Wednesday turned into a great thread 
  Heres a bit of info about the control tower .
 The dissused airbase its on ( now farm land ) was a satalite base to the main one some 10 miles away ....  RAF Coltishall which as some of you may know is now closed  And where I was born ."Aggressive in defence" which is under my user name was RAF Coltishalls Moto .The base Coltishall was closed in 2006 and was a very sad time for me .
   The old control tower is at a place called Ludham and would you believe the last time I was in it about ten years ago it was fully restored and was a small museum  No look at it  How can people let that happen .

Dunc

[ducktapehero]

I've heard so many people say that Hitler was a genius, and I have yet to find even the slightest grain of truth in that.

He certainly wasn't a military genius, although one COULD argue he was a political genius.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Gota love tiffies

Thread split as requested

An old friend of mine,now deceased flew Tiffies in 181 Sqn. He said one of his great thrills was blowing up trains,he loved watching the steam locomotives going up.As great as the Typhoon was,the Tempest was even better,and neither could hold a candle to the later Sea Fury.
 One of my favorite movies is 633 Sqn.,it's rarely shown anymore;I fell in love with Mossies at a very young age.One of the all time most beautiful piston engine aircraft is the follow on to the Mosquito,the DH Hornet..think of a Mosquito that's been refined and and even sleeker.

Mate, you have just the greatest taste in warbirds

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

For those of you who've never seen a Mossie here ya go...



A true beauty, with the advantage of having a merlin in stereo

[I'm Still Bison]

And this is the Hornet

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Did you ever read that book by Eric 'Winkle' Brown, when he put a mossie on a flight deck for the first time (it's a brilliant book if you've not read it)

[I'm Still Bison]

You betcha I have!! I'm a fan of the FAA..have you read either book by Mike Crosley? They Gave Me a Seafire,and Up in Harm's Way?..Crosley was involved in the testing of the Wyvern.Crosley flew Seafires in WWII,and Sea Furies in Korea.This Sea Fury is painted to replicate Lt. "Hoagy" Carmichaels  mount,when shot down a MiG 15

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

No I haven't read it, but I'll be looking for it at work tommorow

You've got to ask yourself how the hell he killed that Mig , I don't doubt for a minute he was a better pilot than the chap in the Mig, but with that kind of performance difference...

[NutSAK]

For those of you who've never seen a Mossie here ya go...

(Image removed from quote.)

A true beauty, with the advantage of having a merlin in stereo

Ah, yes.  The Wooden Wonder.

I have some pictures at home that I'll post tonight of Jack Roush's garage.  He owns a P-51 and has two Merlins sitting there on stands, freshly rebuilt.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Look forward to that mate

[prime77]

For those Mustang fans, like me. I have always thought that this version was cool.



Built to late to take place in WW2. It saw action in the Korean War.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Thats a P82 isn't it , I hope they had good radio's, it'd be pretty difficult to shout over 2 merlins

[prime77]

Right you are micky d. The P82 or F82 as it became called shot down the first North Korean fighters of the Korean War.

[I'm Still Bison]

Micky,if you ever come across the Atlantic,you need to see the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio...you'll need a weekend to take it all in.Where else are you going to see Bok's Car(the B-29 that bombed Nagasaki),moon rocks,and all the Presidential airplanes,Clark Gable's flight jacket,and so many other great things.It's only a 3 hour drive from me.
    My favorite US warbirds from WW II are the Corsair,and the B-25 Mitchell.

[edap617]

Micky,if you ever come across the Atlantic,you need to see the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio...you'll need a weekend to take it all in.Where else are you going to see Bok's Car(the B-29 that bombed Nagasaki),moon rocks,and all the Presidential airplanes,Clark Gable's flight jacket,and so many other great things.It's only a 3 hour drive from me.
    My favorite US warbirds from WW II are the Corsair,and the B-25 Mitchell.

Are you refering to the Enola Gay, Bison?

[NutSAK]

Micky,if you ever come across the Atlantic,you need to see the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio...you'll need a weekend to take it all in.Where else are you going to see Bok's Car(the B-29 that bombed Nagasaki),moon rocks,and all the Presidential airplanes,Clark Gable's flight jacket,and so many other great things.It's only a 3 hour drive from me.
    My favorite US warbirds from WW II are the Corsair,and the B-25 Mitchell.

Are you refering to the Enola Gay, Bison?

The Enola Gay bombed Hiroshima (Little Boy).  Bockscar bombed Nagasaki (Fat Man).

[edap617]

Micky,if you ever come across the Atlantic,you need to see the US Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio...you'll need a weekend to take it all in.Where else are you going to see Bok's Car(the B-29 that bombed Nagasaki),moon rocks,and all the Presidential airplanes,Clark Gable's flight jacket,and so many other great things.It's only a 3 hour drive from me.
    My favorite US warbirds from WW II are the Corsair,and the B-25 Mitchell.

Are you refering to the Enola Gay, Bison?

The Enola Gay bombed Hiroshima (Little Boy).  Bockscar bombed Nagasaki (Fat Man).

I stand corrected.

[edap617]

Where's Enola Gay now? Is it in Smithonian Institute?

[ducktapehero]

Where's Enola Gay now? Is it in Smithonian Institute?

Yes

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/

[NutSAK]

Look forward to that mate

Well, it turns out I was wrong.  I know, I know, it's hard to believe. 

Jack Roush has two P-51s, and he he owns the world's largest stock of RR Merlins.  I couldn't find the pictures I was thinking of, but you'll get the idea.  I count seven engines in the first picture.  I'll keep looking for the picture of the one in the foreground without the cover.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Even though I'm a sworn greenie now, I'd love to tinker around on one of those

And Bob, if I'm ever over that way, you can take me for a guided tour

[NutSAK]

Even though I'm a sworn greenie now, I'd love to tinker around on one of those

I found it.  Is that a sweet hunk of iron, or what? 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Even though I'm a sworn greenie now, I'd love to tinker around on one of those

I found it.  Is that a sweet hunk of iron, or what? 

It's just amazing how much power they extracted from them, 1000hp...in 1936 

Truely the stuff of legend

BTW does your mate need an apprentice

[NutSAK]

BTW does your mate need an apprentice

I wish I knew him!  He's a very successful owner of many auto racing teams here in the US.  He also owns a company that develops performance parts for Mustangs (Ford, not P-51).

Here's a Wiki entry about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Roush

..and here's a page or two about one of his P-51s:

http://www.cebudanderson.com/jroush.htm
http://www.cebudanderson.com/jackroushp51b.htm

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Slightly of topic, but I nearly got kicked out of the Imperial war museum in london for touching the tail on there mustang...

http://www.pan3sixty.co.uk/tours/iwm/qt-small/iwm01.html

if you click to panoramic, you can see why they got angry with me