Bushcraft blade shape questions.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hi all,

I've accumulated a few decent fixed blade knives, mainly for camping, hiking, and to keep in my PSK, and so on.  My question is about which blade profile is best for general camping, survival, fire-making, etc.

I've read a lot of opinions that a spear point, or clip point blade profile is best for "bushcrafting".  (Honestly, I'm still not exactly sure what that's supposed to mean.)  I take it to mean things like making fire-making tools such as hand drills or bow drill spindles, hearth boards, hand chucks, and the like, along with tasks such as processing game, making kindling, and carving basic tools such as one of those stick things you use with a machete to clear brush.

So, in short, is a spear point blade such as found on the Condore Bushlore, or a more upswept style like on the Basic Bushcraft a better choice?  I recently got a Tavian, and like it a lot, but now am wondering if I could have made a better choice.  My primary uses for a knife right now are going to be fire-making and simple tool making.  Eventually when I start doing some hunting/trapping I want to be able to have a single knife that'll work well for that too.

I've become a fan of Condors (as if you couldn't tell  ) and am considering getting another one of their smaller 3" - 5" camp knives.  Right now I'm favoring the Bushlore Mini, and the 4" or 5" Bushcraft Basic.  I'm also curious about the new Kephart style knife they recently released as well.

Any info, suggestions, advice, etc. would be very much appreciated.  Thanks! 

[AimlessWanderer]

Good question. For wood craft I'm definitely very happy with a puukko style knife. It's not my favourite knife style for food prep though. Firstly the primary grind is too much of a wedge, but also if you imagine working on a chopping board, your fingers are in the way which reduces the amount of blade in play.

A Grohmann style knife overcomes this, as does something like a Hudson Bay Camp Knife or a CS Roach Belly. Of these three my favourite is now the Roach Belly. I don't have a Grohmann, but do have a CS Canadian Belt Knife, and the handle just doesn't feel right in my hand somehow. A Hudson Bay knife would be too big for most of what I want.

The Roach Belly is light, easy to clean, easy to sharpen, strong enough for a bit of wood craft, slim enough with a hollow grind to cut food rather than cleave it and keeps the fingers out of the way when wanting cut down on a flat surface. It also has plenty of belly if you're wanting to do any skinning. It's also cheap enough to lose or break without getting upset.

So for me, if I'm going out for the day and feel I'll more liable to be cutting wood I'll grab a Puukko, but for longer trips or where I plan on food chores (even if it's just a day trip with picnic) it's the Roach Belly

[Styerman]

I would say a Pukko/Leuku combo , or a Nessmuk . that said any reasonable 3-5" drop point would probably work . Check out Bark River , they have some nice stuff .

On a budget , tuff to breat the Mora 2000 .

I think bushcrafting varys greatly , dependant on what kind of "bush" you happen to be in .

Chris

[WiSAKfan]

IMHO sometimes it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking i need this blade or that blade for bushcrafting.

if a person can't do it with a mora or a pukko style blade that is a reflection on skills more so then the knife.

if you look at the what mountain men and trappers carried back in the day, they carried what amounts to a butchers knife that was kept as sharp as possible for skinning and meat processing and a second folding blade for the grunt work.

i believe they would find it quite humorous to see us modern bushcrafters batoning  with their fixed knives.  wood processing was done with a small ax or hatchet.

this isn't meant to be a critical....I'm guilty of the same thing and looking for the perfect ___________ is always fun.

   

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

IMHO sometimes it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking i need this blade or that blade for bushcrafting.

if a person can't do it with a mora or a pukko style blade that is a reflection on skills more so then the knife.

I definitely agree with the skill/use issue...  I'm a Cody fan, and he always says the more you know, the less you need to carry.

if you look at the what mountain men and trappers carried back in the day, they carried what amounts to a butchers knife that was kept as sharp as possible for skinning and meat processing and a second folding blade for the grunt work.

Yeah, I realize that.  Made me think of looking for something more traditional, like the old 'trapper's' style knives.  I seem to recall they were usually made out of worn out files back in the pioneer days.  Plenty of people did just fine with just a knife like that.

i believe they would find it quite humorous to see us modern bushcrafters batoning  with their fixed knives.  wood processing was done with a small ax or hatchet.

this isn't meant to be a critical....I'm guilty of the same thing and looking for the perfect ___________ is always fun.

Yeah, but I think we have a different mindset now.  Back then, I don't think there were many, if any, knives capable of doing wood processing.  I could be wrong of course.  I think the difference between then and now is that people are trying to get maximum use out of the fewest possible tools.  In the outdoors classes I've taken, they keep chanting this mantra about multiple functionality... when assembling a PSK, the rule I've been taught is never carry anything that doesn't have at least two uses.

And yeah, this is one of the fun parts of it all. 

Getting back to deciding, it certainly seems that for things like carving, a spear point would work well because it'll give you the ability to make fine details with the narrow point.  On the other hand, maybe not so good for food prep and butchering.  I'm thinking that a modified drop point profile would provide the best 'one knife for everything'.  I watched a few reviews of the Bushlore Mini, and it's a cool little knife.  Gavkoo's review of it was really well done, and almost sold me on it.

That said, I was also looking at the Condor "Survival Craft" knife.  It has some belly that would be good for food prep, but also has a slightly dropped point that might lend itself well to carving.  It's also very inexpensive and seems as well made as any of the other Condors.  It also looks like it has some good ergos; one thing I like about it that the Bushlore lacks is a thumb ramp on the spine of the blade.  I also looked at the 2" Basic; it's got that same sort of slight drop point to it, with more belly as well.  Seems like it'd be very well suited to small carving and woodworking tasks, but I'm thinking it might be a little too small. 

I am going to check out the Bark River stuff, but I am familiar with their reputation (i.e., price), and I simply can't afford one of their knives right now.  I like the value the Condor knives give, and that way I can buy a couple more, try them out and see which one I like best, and then consider making a purchase of a higher end knife of a similar design.  Given they're price, I'm thinking I'll buy a couple to try out side by side, and go from there.

[AimlessWanderer]

I fully agree on the skills to be able to tackle any task with any tool. However, today we have far better options to choose from than back then, and there's no reason to make life harder than it needs to be. The skill set is still very important, but that's no reason to go out in the woods just armed with an old cooks knife cos that's what they did back in the day.

As for Condor I didn't mention them as I thought that they only did carbon steel blades, which again for me is making life harder than it needs to be with the additional maintenance that is required. Then I stumbled across this ...

http://www.heinnie.com/Condor-Knives/Fixed-Blade-Knives/Hivernant/p-130-979-9414/

It says the blade is 420 but not which variation, so I don't know what the edge retention will be like - but at least it should be easy to sharpen. I like how the blade is forward of the fingers as I mentioned above, and the blade section seems quite slim. It's still over three times the price of a roach belly though (over here anyway), plus has the less hygienic handle for foodstuffs - but then again it does have a full tang

http://www.heinnie.com/Cold-Steel-Knives/Fixed-Blade-Knives/Cold-Steel-Roach-Belly/p-127-973-2523/

The other thing to try, even if just to boost the skillset would be a mini hatchet - something like a Vaughan mini shouldn't set you back much. It'll probably need the edge dressing up which is god practice, and will need different techniques in use. I have one and have used it for lots of stuff including food - it's kind of like using an Ulu blade, and also for sharpening stakes etc

[AimlessWanderer]

Also ... I appreciate that some folk might like something a little more heavy duty ... and at times so do I. If I need to bring out a heavier sheath knife without going stupid on the size, this is the one that ticks all the boxes for me. The fact that I picked it up in person from the factory that made it and met all the guys involved it putting it together just makes it all the better for me 

http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Scorpion-Knives/Anton-Du-Plesi-Warthog/p-92-901-8390/

It is carbon steel, so does need a little extra care in that respect, but there's no job I'd be shy of taking on with this bit of kit

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

That Hivernant is pretty cool!  It must be new... I haven't seen it on their website yet, or listed with any of the online sellers.  That's pretty much what the old trappers knives were like, IIRC.

The Roach Belly seems too pointy to me for an all purpose knife.  I'm not real big on Cold Steel as a company either, for reasons that go beyond their design philosophy, that I won't go into here.  (I do really like their sword canes though, and would love to have the money to buy another one.)

I still haven't looked specifically at any of the Bark River knives, but something like that is still a long way off for me.  Right now, I really like the look of the ergos on the Survival Craft, so that will be one of my next purchases.  After that, I'm still not sure.  The Mini Bushlore looks just downright cute, even if it's a little too pointy.  Seems like a handy little knife though.  Maybe the Kephart; it's got a drop point so it could be used for carving and food prep. 

Just have to wait and see I guess.   

[jzmtl]

I think the most useful shape is a drop point, with medium pointyness and gentle curve on edge, along the line of Mora clipper. It's a good balance between needle point on a clip point ala buck 119, or the no point too much belly ala condor bushcraft basic.