A. Wright & Son Senator, slipjoint knife

[dks]

After some PMs with a Sheffield member I decided to get one of these:
A 3¼ - 2 Bolster – Senator Manufactured by A. Wright & Son. Carbon steel.

Shop: http://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/3_-_2_Bolster_-_Senator.html

The price was 57.50 pounds plus 3.50 shipping, bringing the total to 61 Pounds which is 71 Euro or 96 dollars. So we are talking GEC money here.

It arrived wrapped in a tissue, well protected.







Problems:
Grit that needed a good clean, the stag is a bit plain looking. I requested popcorn style stag and asked them to check it well before posting it. I assume they did not bother with either of my requests.

The main problem for me is how much off centre the blade is. It is not actually touching the sides, missing them by a fraction of a mm but it still is annoying when with all this supposedly great experience they are not able to centre a blade, on an expensive model.




Other minor issues are the fact that a pin on each side has a rough finish:



and that the spring is not flush with the liners when the blade is closed.



It is flush when the bade is open.

The carving work on the spring is nice and the knife is also nicely polished (brass).
The grinds are evenish and the knife is reasonably sharp though it will not push cut paper.
The spring is a bit on the tight side but still reasonably easy to open.
I am not unhappy, though I am disappointed by how little effort was put into centring the blade.

My advice is to see the knife first yourself before buying it.

Here are some comparison pictures with a slightly different style of European knife. This was selected by me and shows the stag style I actually wanted.



Filework

[nuphoria]

I'd be fairly miffed with that fit and finish, and probably send it back for a refund.
For GEC money, as you pointed out, it should be a lot better.

Sadly there appears to be a fairly random QC issue in Sheffield, which is a shame because the area had a wonderful reputation for very good reason. I had a real doozy from there myself, similar problems and total hubris when I dared ask for more!

[dks]

My advisor  assured me the knife will be OK (We know who he is...) as this was their expensive range, so I was not expecting to have the problems you had.

The only thing that really bothers me is the blade centring. I know functionally the knife is fine but I have stopped buying knives just for function a long time ago. 

I did ask them to check it and I do not think they sell that many every day that they could not have spent a minute to look at mine. They seem to be selling on their past reputation with no care about the future.
I am generally lazy with returning products but you never know. If it bothers me enough maybe I will consider sending it back, though I may get something even worst in return 

[AimlessWanderer]

Well that's REALLY pissed me off. I was the guy who said this would be a safe bet based on my own experience with A Wrights. My senator is the same but with buffalo horn scales and none of these problems. Initially I was going to go and hand pick one to make sure this didn't happen. Because it was Wrights I figured it would be a safe bet and save demetris waiting for me to find the time to go over to Sheffield (time is tight at the month).

Demitris, as I said before in an earlier PM, I will put my money where my mouth is and buy this off you at your full cost. You paid for this on my word and it's not right you not be happy with it. I'll also resume my earlier offer of going to hand pick something for you when time permits, but I honestly can't say when that will be right now. Send me your PP addy and full costs and I'll get the funds over tomorrowm

[Northern Geek]

Well that's REALLY pissed me off. I was the guy who said this would be a safe bet based on my own experience with A Wrights. My senator is the same but with buffalo horn scales and none of these problems. Initially I was going to go and hand pick one to make sure this didn't happen. Because it was Wrights I figured it would be a safe bet and save demetris waiting for me to find the time to go over to Sheffield (time is tight at the month).

Demitris, as I said before in an earlier PM, I will put my money where my mouth is and buy this off you at your full cost. You paid for this on my word and it's not right you not be happy with it. I'll also resume my earlier offer of going to hand pick something for you when time permits, but I honestly can't say when that will be right now. Send me your PP addy and full costs and I'll get the funds over tomorrowm

That's class right there.

[sawman]

Well that's REALLY pissed me off. I was the guy who said this would be a safe bet based on my own experience with A Wrights. My senator is the same but with buffalo horn scales and none of these problems. Initially I was going to go and hand pick one to make sure this didn't happen. Because it was Wrights I figured it would be a safe bet and save demetris waiting for me to find the time to go over to Sheffield (time is tight at the month).

Demitris, as I said before in an earlier PM, I will put my money where my mouth is and buy this off you at your full cost. You paid for this on my word and it's not right you not be happy with it. I'll also resume my earlier offer of going to hand pick something for you when time permits, but I honestly can't say when that will be right now. Send me your PP addy and full costs and I'll get the funds over tomorrowm

That's class right there.

+1 

[stealth007s]

Very good of you Allan

[tosh]

Well that's REALLY pissed me off. I was the guy who said this would be a safe bet based on my own experience with A Wrights. My senator is the same but with buffalo horn scales and none of these problems. Initially I was going to go and hand pick one to make sure this didn't happen. Because it was Wrights I figured it would be a safe bet and save demetris waiting for me to find the time to go over to Sheffield (time is tight at the month).

Demitris, as I said before in an earlier PM, I will put my money where my mouth is and buy this off you at your full cost. You paid for this on my word and it's not right you not be happy with it. I'll also resume my earlier offer of going to hand pick something for you when time permits, but I honestly can't say when that will be right now. Send me your PP addy and full costs and I'll get the funds over tomorrowm

That is indeed a gracious gesture AL, alas echoed as you know by most yorkshire folk. Personally, I'd have done the same, except that I would have given Mr A Wright the link to this very thread so he can see for himself the shame he brings to Sheffield's cutlery heritage.
If that's not you AL, then please allow me, as I certainly will!!


UPDATE

As I live in Sheffield too, this kind of bad publicity is pretty damning to say the least when one considers that Sheffield really did lead the pack in past years.

I've just forwarded the link to this thread to the maker A Wright & Sons. If he replies, then I'll post it on here.

[nuphoria]

Would be good to see if they will fix it - no doubt they could if they wanted to.

[AimlessWanderer]

Have you got a personal email for him, or did you use a link from their website? The reason I aask is their website is actually run by the shop that dks bought it from as I understand it. Either way it'll be interesting to see what comes back ... If anything

I have got my own thoughts on this knife which I've relayed to farmman regarding the how's and why's, but if I'd been making knives all my life I'd have more pride than that. Thaat build quality is perfectly adequate for an agricultural user - a basic model that's going to be used hard day in and day out, but not for a premier model. A cheapo rough rider will have better fit and finish, but I,d still put my money on the Sheffield knife outliving it in service ... However, a premier knife should have the rugged performance funtion AND the refined fit and finish ... Just like my buffalo version

[tosh]

Would be good to see if they will fix it - no doubt they could if they wanted to.

Too right they could.

The stupid thing is, as I say I live in Sheffield I'm acutely aware of Sheffield's past. Yet I cannot find a pocket knife anywhere to be proud off. We have shop called aptly "The Sheffield Shop" I called down a few years ago in the hope of picking up a heirloom for my young son. I didn't try them all - but yet all the one's I did try were appalling. Lateral blade movement, protruding rivits, badly fitted scales, blades not centered etc etc etc. Needless to say I walked out of the shop empty handed. My only hope now is to try to locate an authentic example off ebay, obviously not ebayuk as we cannot buy knives, so ebay.com...but then my bid is blocked too.

I'd simply love a geniune George Wolstenholme or the likes, not one of the crappy replicas, but the real deal, infact I'd like two, both identical - one that's had a hard life and the other that's been left untouched.

Ah yes!!...that would do!!

[tosh]

Have you got a personal email for him, or did you use a link from their website?

A cheapo rough rider will have better fit and finish

I was thinking exactly the same AL with regards to the Rough Riders.

As for the email, I simply typed in A Wight & Son's into the search bar and found this......

http://www.penknives-and-scissors.co.uk/

[dks]

Well that's REALLY pissed me off. I was the guy who said this would be a safe bet based on my own experience with A Wrights. My senator is the same but with buffalo horn scales and none of these problems. Initially I was going to go and hand pick one to make sure this didn't happen. Because it was Wrights I figured it would be a safe bet and save demetris waiting for me to find the time to go over to Sheffield (time is tight at the month).

Demitris, as I said before in an earlier PM, I will put my money where my mouth is and buy this off you at your full cost. You paid for this on my word and it's not right you not be happy with it. I'll also resume my earlier offer of going to hand pick something for you when time permits, but I honestly can't say when that will be right now. Send me your PP addy and full costs and I'll get the funds over tomorrowm

Do not worry Al, I know that you are in no way responsible for what I received, and so do not expect you to pay or make amends for their inconsistency. That will be very stupid on my behalf. You are not responsible for the Sheffield knife industry  mate.

I found it more amusing than anything that in our PMs we sort of settled on what appeared to be a sure thing which proved not to be so. When you order online it is always a gamble.

I have contacted them too and I will see what they reply. Maybe they will say that this is fine by them. My main worry is that I may return it and receive something even worst back.

My advice is when you buy anything like that make sure you see it first.

[dks]

I received this email from the shop today, following an enquiry I made through their website about their return/refund policy:

"Sorry the knife was not up to standard.  We can replace it or give you a refund.

I would like to have the opportunity to replace it with a better one.  If you are happy to receive a replacement I will send you another of the same model. Before sending it I would of course subject it to a rigorous quality check. If you are happy with the replacement please send the original back.  If not, please send both back.  In either case I will refund the postage.
 
A Wright and Son are a traditional pocket knife maker using hand skills rather than mass production engineering techniques. Their pocket knives are popular with farmers, gardeners etc because of their sturdiness and practical application. The premium knives need to meet stricter criteria in finish quality as well as functionality and I am regularly in touch with the owner on this very subject.
 
There will always be some variation in finish quality due to the way they are made and the use of natural materials. 

For the record, I receive many unsolicited emails from customers who are absolutely delighted with their purchase of an A Wright and Son pocket knife, so I do not want you to have the impression that they are sub-standard!
 
Best wishes,
Paul Iseard
Owner
The Famous Sheffield Shop"

I will ask for a replacement and see how it goes.
 

[AimlessWanderer]

That's more promising 

Don't worry D, I know you didn't hold me responsible for the purchase, or for the knife industry at large  No delusions of grandeur here  I was just honouring the pledge I made to you before you bought it as recompense for not being able to go and hand pick one for you. I said back then I had confidence in those knives and if you weren't happy I'd buy it off you, and I was just sticking to my word. I might not be responsible for any knife and tool manufacture, but I am responsible for the advice I give my mates 

Paul Iseard is a good bloke and I've had a few nice things from his shop, and he's also aware of what knife collectors expect in their premium knives. As to the knife itself (now I'm using my office PC instead of the phone  ) ...

Stag ... luck of the draw with natural materials
Spring ... if the tang is drilled 0.5mm off centre, the difference between how the spring sits open and closed will be 1mm
Pins ... cut a fraction too long causing the pins to over peen and fracture is my guess. Hard to dress out without removing "character" from the stag
Centreing ... Sloppy! That should have been crinked properly before leving the door
Grit ... Sloppy again! Basic models, OK - maybe a little factory gunk, but not on premium models

I'd expect a hand built/finished knife to have some variations - especially as it's not a several hundred pound model, but the crinking issue is sloppy as in the grit. I would (personally) have not fussed over either a slight pin or spring deviation, but wouldn't expect both, and that spring is further out than I'd expect to see.

I hope it all comes right for you mate, but I'm still prepared to stand by my word if Mr Iseard doesn't make it right for you 

[dks]

As I said my main complaint was the centring. I do not care too much about the grit, as I can clean it and the pins and spring issues on their own would not have bothered me much.
Even the centring if it was a bit off it would not have been a problem but it just really hits you with the fact that it is so bad. I was complaining about a RR being off-centre a while back but I did not see it fit to return it as it was a $10 knife, not an $100 like the senator.

Maybe I am just too picky.. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Nah, not really. If it had been a £25 knife, I'd have said stop moaning  For £57 you are quite right to expect better. I expected better and it's not cost me anything ... yet  That centering is really poor, and should have been easy to avoid/remedy during fitting

[DaveK]

Fair play to Paul on his e-mail.

When you've screwed up - that's the kind of response you should be giving - an apology and a proposal on how you are going to put it right. Too often that's not the case these days.

Let's hope they sort you out with a knife that's up to the same quality as the customer service - fingers crossed for you dks.

[dks]

There are some further complications that we are trying to sort out now. I will keep you lot posted when we are finished. 

[dks]

We had a discussion with the Sheffield shop owner and he said that there was not at the time a suitable replacement for my knife. Thus we agreed on a different knife, more expensive but discounted. I also ordered an extra knife from their cheaper range.

These two arrived today:



A Barlow and a Senator, both with wooden handles.




I requested checks on blade centring, finish, play, spring hardness and so on, and expected the best.
In summation they are both fine, though the grind on the Barlow was unfinished with a noticeable and hard burr on one side that could have been removed easily if the sharpener spent an extra 20s on the knife. They both had some thick black oily residue in their pivots etc. though they both open smoothly with no grinding or unevenness in their movement. None is able to push-cut paper.

First the Senator.

I was surprised to see it had a rounded body as it appeared squareish in the picture.






The wood seems similar to good dashboard wood. It looks nicely finished with very few and minor natural pits. There were no noticeable gaps and the metal was nicely polished.
The blade was reasonably centred.




See the difference with my original Senator model:



The blade is smaller than in the Stag model, but the body is the same size...? I have no idea why they could not fit the larger blade.










Some comparison pictures:




The kick was a bit strangely ground, but it works.



And now the Barlow:

This is sold as a working knife and is a quarter of the price of the Senator.  It has “Barlow” engraved with Gold leaf apparently.
The finish is good, apart from the grinds. The blade is not polished but it is reasonably centred.















It is a large size Barlow as seen in the comparison pictures with a Camillus Barlow:







It does not stand up perfectly:



Family photo:



The Stag Senator is going back on Monday (unless Al still wants to buy it..  )

I was also sent a 20% discount code from that shop, which I assume they sent to all of their customers, but if anybody wants to use it PM me. I have had it for a few days but did not want to advertise it until I knew they could deliver a decent product.

[AimlessWanderer]

Glad to see you got sorted out mate - that snakewood one looks a beauty I'll let you return the stag one to the shop D, hopefully Paul will give it them back to sort out ... besides I'm chucking cash elsewhere at the mo 

Here's my Senator after a couple of years occasional carry and use. Buffalo version with a very healthy apple fueled patina 

[stealth007s]

Looks to be a reasonable solution D. Nice looking knives there

[dks]

After some PMs with a Sheffield member I decided to get one of these:
A 3¼ - 2 Bolster – Senator Manufactured by A. Wright & Son. Carbon steel.

Shop: http://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/3_-_2_Bolster_-_Senator.html

The price was 57.50 pounds plus 3.50 shipping, bringing the total to 61 Pounds which is 71 Euro or 96 dollars. So we are talking GEC money here.

I checked the price again today, for fun., and it is now  78 Pounds.... the price has gone up by 20 pounds or 35.6% in 5 years