New Victorinox knife category?

[North Man]

I noticed just some time ago that Victorinox made a new knife, atleast to me it looked like a brand new knife.

It was made from scratch:


A TAILORED HUNTING KNIFE 0.9410.3

The Hunters Knife from Victorinox was developed from scratch as a special knife for hunters in the United States. Hunters in some countries need a tailored hunting knife that does not require any additional tools. The Hunter Pro is the result of this particular challenge. It comes with a large one-handed blade. The ergonomic shape lends the hunting knife an extremely stable grip. The products are delivered with a special and matching pouch.

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This is interesting since i got some technical data on this aswell.

This is the first time i have heard of a SAK with this steel.
1.4419 (x38CrMo14)

Other data:

Color: black
Blade: lenght 96 mm
Total: lenght 225 mm
Width: 40 mm
Height: 18 mm (must be handle thickness)
Net weight: 162 gr (probarbly just the knife)
Gross weight: 228 gr (must be knife in sheath)

I found this knife interesting for the shape and the new design. So i wonder if anybody have this knife?, since it is probarbly a backlock type. Another of my interests
This could just as easy become a safety knife, a safety knife need these:

OH opening, lock, ergonomic handle, slip resistance, pocket or sheath holding and a sharp edge. + Some more. The Sentinel 111 is very good for safety, with combination edge. A safety knife with combination edge is best. Only problem with the Sentinel is that it is not so comfortable in the hand. This new knife looks very nice.

Took the freedom to borrow a Victorinox picture

[nuphoria]

Never seen that before... interesting

[North Man]

Yes it is interesting

[enki_ck]

It was announced at the Shot Show this year. It comes with the green molle sheath.

[Reinier]

I'm sure it has been discussed here on MTo before but anyways, it's a very interesting knife. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

Wow, it cost only €0.00 (which is about $0.00 ): http://www.victorinoxstore.nl/victorinox-hunter-pro/

[North Man]

It was announced at the Shot Show this year. It comes with the green molle sheath.

yes i saw it first at shot show and alittle here and there, only not so much technical data.
This is technical data from the factory

[Ashley]

There is a write up about it in the newest July issue of tactical knives magazine.

Ash's mobile on the move.

[firiki]

Felinevet Tim had posted this in January:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,42313.msg677876.html#msg677876

I remember I was curious to hear your thoughts on this one. I don't have a use for such a knife so probably won't be testing it soon but apart from that I feel kinda let down. Don't like that handle and the blade looks OK but as I already mentioned it's not for me. Could someone explain this steel formula's properties by the way 1.4419 (x38CrMo14) ?   

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Very nice!  I'm still alternately distraught/pissed-off about the loss of my Stretch 2, and have yet to decide on what I want to get to replace it.  This looks like a very strong contender!  Seems very much in the same vein as well.  Not sure about the spear point blade shape, as I would prefer something more sheepsfoot-like, but still, overall it looks like a very nice knife.

[Lynn LeFey]

Here's the explanation of x38CrMo14
http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_composition_eu.php?name_id=85

EDIT: removed confusing statement about the number value. My bad.

[firiki]

I was hoping for a brief description as I'm not very knowledgeable about these things but now I know I can look it up. Thank you 

[kkokkolis]

Here it is very difficult to  get a Spyderco, CKRT or other similar folder at a good price. Since this is a Victorinox it is predicted that it will be sold everywhere and perhaps  at a good price. This is a very good thing and can happen only with Victorinox and Opinel (not even Wenger). Even if I've no particular use for it (Opinels suit my needs and one can find no name Buck 110 type folders of great quality and finish for a few euros) I'll get one anyway, as soon as it is available.

[Syph007]

I'd still buy one to play with regardless, but that steel choice worries me.  I cant find an SAE equivalent to it, to know how it would perform.  Also when looking to buy that steel online, I can only find it made in china.   

The swiss army knife steel 1.4110 is pretty much equivalent to SAE 440A, which is pretty darn good for a pocket knife in this price range.

[ColoSwiss]

1.4419 is a European designation for a type of stainless steel. It apparently doesn't have a precise US equivalent, but appears to be similar to 420HC.

http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_composition_eu.php?name_id=85

[Syph007]

Ya I looked it up and read what I could find.  420 isn't a great blade steel.  Its strength is in formability.  Something like how a leatherman wave handle is bent and formed, useful in that.  Not an asset steel for anything else really, and certainly not corrosion resistance.

Maybe their formula is better than SAE 420 though I hope, as its considered a very poor blades steel, serviceable at best.

[ColoSwiss]

Agree with you on 420 being a rather minimal steel. A lot of cheap knives use it. 420HC has a bit higher carbon content for greater hardness and edge retention.

One source says Vic's standard steel, 1.4110, is similar to 440A. Looking at composition tables it appears to fall somewhere between 440A and 425. Problem is US steels differ slightly from European steel which differ from Japanese steels. Sometimes there are direct equivalents, a lot of times not.

(I have a book on Metallurgy. Whenever I want to stun myself to sleep I try and read a chapter.  )

[Syph007]

Ya im no expert, just trying to learn what I can!

How a steel is heat treated has a huge impact too... and like I said it wont stop me from buying a couple.

[felinevet]

This model is named the Outdoorsman and they are due to deliver in early May. I will have them in the FELINEVET Store.

Felinevet Tim had posted this in January:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,42313.msg677876.html#msg677876

[North Man]

Interesting about the steel, i am not sure if the factory got this steel in other knives. Then i could maybe have given some use specs.
To me atleast it is a new steel and like mentioned a european steel designation. This means a european made steel, usually.

1.4419 (x38CrMo14)
 
other Victorinox european steel designations:

1.4110 x55CrMo14  blades 56 HRC
1.4031 x39Cr13  parts 52-56 HRC
1.4021 x20Cr13 springs 49 HRC
for other Vic knives
1.4034 x46Cr13 blades (HRC is probarbly 55-56)

metallurgy is not my strongest side, use of steel is more interesting.

example 1.4110
x55CrMo14  Carbon 0.48-0.60  Chromium 13.0-15.0 Molybdenum 0.50-0.80 Vanadium <0.15
this is an high alloy x55 = 0.55 % Carbon Cr 14 % = Chromium

x38CrMo14 : this steel then should have  0.38 % Carbon and 14% Chromium

[North Man]

this i have borrowed from Victorinox, very informative and i understand it.

The effects of alloy components

Hardening makes knives hard, elastic and provides them with the edge-holding ability. The more carbon the steel contains, the harder and sharper it can be made during the hardening process, but the less resistant it will be to rusting. Conversely less carbon makes the rust resistance better but the edge-holding ability worse. Steel becomes stainless when it is alloyed with at least 12 % chrome, which must be dissolved in the basic matrix. A protective «passive» surface layer of chromium oxide prevents corrosion, for example as caused by moisture. If the steel has a higher carbon content the insufficient rust resistance can be improved by increasing the molybdenum part of the alloy. Higher chromium content also provides better corrosion resistance but reduces the hardness of the steel, while molybdenum makes it harder. Knife blades made of chrome nickel steel would be extremely resistant to rust and acids, but would be easily bent and quickly become blunt.

 

Carbon (C)

Carbon has the most significant effect on the properties of a steel alloy. The carbon content is between 0.3 % and 1.0 %; it determines the hardness and tensile strength of the steel but reduces corrosion resistance. The higher the carbon content, the greater the achievable hardness (rigidity). However, toughness is reduced and the steel becomes brittle.

 

Chromium (Cr)

The chromium content is between 12 % and 17 %. This is the main alloy component of martensitic stainless steel. It gives the steel its corrosion resistance. Chromium is a carbide former. Its carbides increase edge-holding ability and wear resistance.

 

Molybdenum (Mo)

The molybdenum content is between 0.2 % and 1 %. Molybdenum is an important element which helps to maintain the corrosion resistance despite a higher carbon content. It improves the edge-holding ability of steel designed for use in cutting tools. Molybdenum also promotes the formation of fine grains, which has a positive effect on the cutting characteristics.

 

Vanadium (V)

Vanadium is added to steel for special purposes. It can be added to martensitic molybdenum steel in small quantities. It makes for a finer grain, greater edge-holding ability and toughness.

 

[firiki]

Thank you North Man. Your two last posts were pretty enlightening. 

[Steinar]

Comparison graph between 1.4419, 420 and 420HC: http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1.4419%2C420HC%2C420&ni=2721,789,443&hrn=1&gm=0

Edit: Comparing 1.4110, 1.4419 and 420HC is probably more relevant here: http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1.4419%2C420HC%2C1.4110&ni=2721,789,626&hrn=1&gm=0

[North Man]

Thank you North Man. Your two last posts were pretty enlightening. 

You are welcome
Going to be interesting if we find it, if 420HC or another. 420HC i like alot.

I got this table since i have been into this equivalents before, equivalents is many times misplaced on the internet. This on the more known Victorinox steels.
This is interesting

[North Man]

On Victorinox it is the DIN we must look for,  1.4419 (x38CrMo14)

[North Man]

Got some interesting info on 1.4419 steel. This from a metallurgist:


If hardened correct and to same hardness then 1.4419 will have a less good abrasion resistance(slitasje motstand) but higher toughness(seighet) Also better corrosion resistance on 1.4419.
1.4110 would be possible to get a higher hardness, if used or not.

The differences will not be much on the same hardness. So if we look on the effects of Alloy components above it is maybe alittle more understandable.

The blade looks sturdy on this new knife, so it is interesting what they have done. Especially on the steel and why?

Ps . There is a difference "only it will not be very much",

[firiki]

Molybdenum also promotes the formation of fine grains, which has a positive effect on the cutting characteristics.

This was the reason I asked for this steel's composition. You had posted this some days earlier and I was relieved: though it probably is absurd, what really makes me wonder about SAK blades is the gritty feeling I get while using them. Something like if the blade was biting into materials causing some fine friction that helps sides split. Now, I wonder what's with this blade. It looks good, I especially like it around the tip but somehow I feel this alloy keeps brute force as a priority and I prefer a fixed blade for that. Sadly, metallurgy is a very interesting science I can only understand empirically along with some info. Maybe I should give this Outdoorsman a try after all.    

[North Man]

You are welcome,  if they got the same hardness there is a difference told here. This alone is worth the try Then again we may never know if it is so for sure This is the most close as i can get without trying the knife. Have in mind also that the table above with equivalents is just around there, Victorinox do not use any 440 group, but it is interesting to see specs.
Again on Victorinox look for the Group and DIN on these know Vic Steels:
1.4110 x55CrMo14  blades 56 HRC
1.4031 x39Cr13  parts 52-56 HRC
1.4021 x20Cr13 springs 49 HRC
for other Vic knives
1.4034 x46Cr13 blades (HRC is probarbly 55-56)
1.4419 x38CrMo14

PS if they do use 440 let me know

[ColoSwiss]

Thank you North Man. Your two last posts were pretty enlightening. 

You are welcome
Going to be interesting if we find it, if 420HC or another. 420HC i like alot.

I got this table since i have been into this equivalents before, equivalents is many times misplaced on the internet. This on the more known Victorinox steels.
This is interesting

(Image removed from quote.)

Have my doubts about that table, since it says 420 is equivalent to three European steels with different compositions.

[ColoSwiss]

You are welcome,  if they got the same hardness there is a difference told here. This alone is worth the try Then again we may never know if it is so for sure This is the most close as i can get without trying the knife. Have in mind also that the table above with equivalents is just around there, Victorinox do not use any 440 group, but it is interesting to see specs.
Again on Victorinox look for the Group and DIN on these know Vic Steels:
1.4110 x55CrMo14  blades 56 HRC
1.4031 x39Cr13  parts 52-56 HRC
1.4021 x20Cr13 springs 49 HRC
for other Vic knives
1.4034 x46Cr13 blades (HRC is probarbly 55-56)
1.4419 x38CrMo14

PS if they do use 440 let me know

Here's a Wenger Oboe Reed-scraping knife for preparing reeds for musical instruments. It has 440C blades. Only time I'm aware of that Wenger used that quality of steel.

[North Man]

excellent info Coloswiss

 PS i will mention a small detail in any love for Wenger topic, on my feel on the old and new Ranger.