How about we stop using the word 'Sheeple'?

[Lynn LeFey]

Okay... look...

Using the word 'sheeple' implies that while the somnambulant massed shuffle zombie-like through the world, you, and those LIKE you, are somehow SO VERY AWARE of how reality works. Which, I'm sorry, that's painfully arrogant.

That some people chose not to do whatever it is that makes you think they deserves the word 'sheeple' being applied, does not, in fact, MAKE them oblivious herd-mentality sheep.

Seriously. It doesn't.

I'm sorry if this starts an argument, but I REALLY feel that this is a matter that needs to be discussed. If anyone can come up with how 'Sheeple' is anything other than a derogatory term, I'm certainly willing to hear them out. But it's not. It's a term that denotes the user's OBVIOUS superiority over an unlike group.

And that's simply not cool, in my book.

[kirk13]

I take your point Lynn,but I defy you to go,spend an hour at this time of the year in a shopping maul(sic), and not come back and rethink this

[ducttapetech]

While it has kinda change, it is more meant for those who "drink the cool aid" or "lambs to the slaughter"

I guess it would be a little better to call somebody a "Stupid Mother smurfing Dumb Ass" instead of a "sheep".

sent from Nate's mobile

[Mr. Whippy]

Those who succumb to groupthink because they see coworkers, classmates, fellow church members, celebrities or self-help gurus subscribe to a popular culture concept are in fact, non-thinking followers (like sheep).

When a soundbite catches someone's attention and they're willing to make broadsweeping social policy changes because of it, they are non-thinking followers.

An example?  Limiting magazine capacities in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary school tragedy.  What does that really do other than feed into a sense of "at least we did something"?  It's a feel good action that has negative impact on many law abiding people simply because people want a "Feel good" action taken.

Sorry, there are a large group of people who are led around by a media frenzy, acquiescing to actions without any independent thought on the subject.

[microbe]

If it was not for the sheep, we would not have that nice and warm wool. So lets not mock the sheep ok. They deserve better.

[Mr. Whippy]

I like sheep.  I just don't want them making policy

[pfrsantos]

Okay... look...

Using the word 'sheeple' implies that while the somnambulant massed shuffle zombie-like through the world, you, and those LIKE you, are somehow SO VERY AWARE of how reality works. Which, I'm sorry, that's painfully arrogant.

That some people chose not to do whatever it is that makes you think they deserves the word 'sheeple' being applied, does not, in fact, MAKE them oblivious herd-mentality sheep.

Seriously. It doesn't.

I'm sorry if this starts an argument, but I REALLY feel that this is a matter that needs to be discussed. If anyone can come up with how 'Sheeple' is anything other than a derogatory term, I'm certainly willing to hear them out. But it's not. It's a term that denotes the user's OBVIOUS superiority over an unlike group.

And that's simply not cool, in my book.

You sheeple are always saying this... Enough already!!!
 




(sorry, couldn't resist...)
 

[Aloha]

I like to think of the word "sheeple" as simply a developed term used to describe not judgment of the described. There are terms used in every social group that when used in that group convey specific meaning and not necessarily used to degrade the described.  I honestly feel that most members who use the term do not use the term to convey anything hurtful or derogatory.             

[Lynn LeFey]

I honestly feel that most members who use the term do not use the term to convey anything hurtful or derogatory.     

Okay. Give ONE example when someone uses 'sheeple' to mean something positive.


In fact, there IS a pretty well defined meaning to 'sheeple', and it's in no way good.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheeple

[enki_ck]

I hate the word too, very much so. I even thought of recommending that we include it in the smurf filter. Luckily it isn't used around here as much as on some other forums. Still makes me go and every time I see it.

[Zed]

Lol as my family come from the eastend of london i just persumed sheeple was rhyming slang 

[dks]

Sheeple it is generally used to convey that people that have / are in the know of knives/guns/tools etc are  superior or better than the common, uninitiated person who runs away scared when he sees their knife, tool etc... It is not a compliment 

On the plus side I have very rarely seen it being used here. It is regularly used in knife forums mainly by the tactical style crowd, usually in relation to them flicking their knife in public and some people daring to look at them funny.

[kirk13]

Lol as my family come from the eastend of london i just persumed sheeple was rhyming slang 

Eh

[Mr. Whippy]

A individual that forfits (sic) their right to choose in favor of inclusion in groupthink and what is viewed as popular or elete(sic) group. Allowing the influences of different forms of media and group members to hold great sway in the formation of attitudes, behavoir(sic) and opinion.
To accept the group mentaility(sic) and opinion as fact without examination.
Not only to be told what to do, but accepting the paradigm of thought as absolute thereby removing the weight of personal responsibility in the making of decisions.

I think this pretty accurately conveys what I mean when I use this term.  People can hold whatever opinion they want, but when they accept a truism for fact without critical scrutiny AND that acceptance as negative consequences for me,  I find that to be unacceptable. 

And yes, for those who are allow such populist groupthink to govern policy, that is a negative attribute.

[Aloha]

I honestly feel that most members who use the term do not use the term to convey anything hurtful or derogatory.     

Okay. Give ONE example when someone uses 'sheeple' to mean something positive.


In fact, there IS a pretty well defined meaning to 'sheeple', and it's in no way good.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheeple

While words all convey meaning many times feeling/emotion are attached, sometimes by our own making and other times by the users intent.   I have used the term sheep and cow before learning of the word sheeple and I can honestly say it's used as a description not a judgment.  If one is of the mindset they will blindly follow and others choose not to then so be it, I am a live and let live person. I see the word as merely a result of dialect vs malice or the intent to hurt.  I agree there are some that use the word in a way that conveys hurt but it's hard to say that generally speaking that is true for everyone who uses the word.

Sheep People has become sheeple as a conscience way to describe a mentality IMO and not a diss word.  Would it be better to say both words?  Either way most users use the word to describe certain mindsets and both ways are going to offend someone.  I don't have a answer for finding ONE example for the positive usage as not everything is either one or the other by default.     

[Mr. Whippy]

I honestly feel that most members who use the term do not use the term to convey anything hurtful or derogatory.     

Okay. Give ONE example when someone uses 'sheeple' to mean something positive.


In fact, there IS a pretty well defined meaning to 'sheeple', and it's in no way good.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheeple

Well, in the US, it would be hard since everyone likes to view themselves as a rugged individualist.  However, people who willingly sign onto a HOA (HomeOwners Association) pact, signing away their right to paint their house whatever color they want, or have a car parked in their driveway or a kiddie pool in sight of the sidewalk is seen by many people as positive (It keeps up the neighborhood's property values!) One could argue that sheeple who sign up for that are viewed positively by some.  Others, not so much.

It's not unlike geek.  For the first 2 decades of its usage, geek held only negative connotations to most people.  However, it now is viewed as a descriptor.  Negative or positive depends on one's vantage point.

[Zed]

Lol as my family come from the eastend of london i just persumed sheeple was rhyming slang 

Eh

Eh's more canadian john 

[powernoodle]

If anyone can come up with how 'Sheeple' is anything other than a derogatory term, I'm certainly willing to hear them out.

"Sheeple" is derogatory, its meant to be derogatory, and it should be derogatory.

Sheeple are not those who have an unjustified fear knives, guns or anything "scary".  That's not the bad part.  The bad part is when they try to impose their emasculated view of the world on the rest of us.  That's what makes them sheeple - i.e., they engage in dangerous, politically correct groupthink.  In other words, because they are afraid of my Victorinox Classic, it makes me a bad person in their view, and one who could very well go postal and kill a school full of children.  In their eyes, I am presumed guilty because I dare to cut open a package with a 1" blade instead of tearing it open like a housewife with a minivan key.

So being ignorant about sharp things, taken alone, does not make people "sheeple".  What does make them "sheeple" is the imposition of their spineless, politically correct, dangerous worldview on the rest of us.  They should be rebuked, and characterizing them as sheep rather than sheepdogs is fair, and it is warranted.

The terms should not be used to describe someone simply because they have an unwarranted fear of anything sharp.  Rather, it should be reserved for those who translate that phobia into a self-righteous demand that I can't have anything sharp either.

When I think of "sheeple", I conjure up an image of a fat, 42 year old divorced female in an office cubicle setting who is so miserable in her pathetic, lonely life that she subconsciously wants everyone else to be just as miserable.  This desire manifests in her, and those like her, telling us what kind of light bulbs we can buy, that our toilet tanks can't hold more than 2.5 gallons of water, that you are a fascist if you don't drive a battery-powered car, and that a Victorinox Classic in my pocket makes my guilty until proven innocent.

So, the term "sheeple" is not gratuitous.  It is well-earned.

I have spoken. 

Moderators, please place this post in the MTO Shrine of Brilliance.  Thanks! 

[Mr. Whippy]

If anyone can come up with how 'Sheeple' is anything other than a derogatory term, I'm certainly willing to hear them out.

"Sheeple" is derogatory, its meant to be derogatory, and it should be derogatory.

Sheeple are not those who have an unjustified fear knives, guns or anything "scary".  That's not the bad part.  The bad part is when they try to impose their emasculated view of the world on the rest of us.  That's what makes them sheeple - i.e., they engage in dangerous, politically correct groupthink.  In other words, because they are afraid of my Victorinox Classic, it makes me a bad person in their view, and one who could very well go postal and kill a school full of children.  In their eyes, I am presumed guilty because I dare to cut open a package with a 1" blade instead of tearing it open like a housewife with a minivan key.

So being ignorant about sharp things, taken alone, does not make people "sheeple".  What does make them "sheeple" is the imposition of their spineless, politically correct, dangerous worldview on the rest of us.  They should be rebuked, and characterizing them as sheep rather than sheepdogs is fair, and it is warranted.

The terms should not be used to describe someone simply because they have an unwarranted fear of anything sharp.  Rather, it should be reserved for those who translate that phobia into a self-righteous demand that I can't have anything sharp either.

When I think of "sheeple", I conjure up an image of a fat, 42 year old divorced female in an office cubicle setting who is so miserable in her pathetic, lonely life that she subconsciously wants everyone else to be just as miserable.  This desire manifests in her, and those like her, telling us what kind of light bulbs we can buy, that our toilet tanks can't hold more than 2.5 gallons of water, that you are a fascist if you don't drive a battery-powered car, and that a Victorinox Classic in my pocket makes my guilty until proven innocent.

So, the term "sheeple" is not gratuitous.  It is well-earned.

I have spoken. 

Moderators, please place this post in the MTO Shrine of Brilliance.  Thanks!

I'm going to have to disagree a little with this.

You describe a subset of sheeple.  There is another group who just don't really think about such things BUT they see scary images on TV, hear friends and colleagues describe horrible atrocities and then hear someone proffer a simple solution.  Not wanting to put any effort into thinking further about it, the simplistic solution sounds good, and so they'll go along with it, especially since they heard a bunch of people at work(or church, or at the golf course) suggesting it was a good idea too...

...and heck, the new rules don't affect them, so, if they might help a little then great!

[Lynn LeFey]

People who sign up for HOAs, don't CALL each other sheeple. My Point.

Sheeple is a derogatory term. A pejorative. There is no positive meaning for it.

Words do drift in both denotation and connotation. They can become more positive. That's called amelioration. That has not happened with Sheeple and I doubt it ever will, and almost certainly NOT in my lifetime.

Moreover, it is a negative JUDGEMENT of the user on anyone who doesn't hold their worldview.

It is basically like saying "you never thought your opinion out, because OBVIOUSLY, if you did, you'd think like me." That's arrogance in the extreme. That presumes you know everything, and made the perfect decision based on perfect knowledge. Which, frankly, is impossible.

It assumes that a decision someone came to, if counter to your own, is obviously flawed. Worse, it assumes that the individual didn't reach this decision on their own, but are only parroting someone else's (still obviously wrong) opinion.

Okay, so what if someone doesn't think for themselves, but you persuade them of your worldview? I guess then, what? They're just LUCKY sheeple who have a wise and benevolent shepherd?

And if they spend their entire life scrutinizing a decision, decades studying it, and came to different conclusion than you? Then... they're STILL sheeple? And moreover, what if they're conclusion is without a doubt demonstrably correct, and you're WRONG?

This is my entire point. Calling people 'sheeple' is making a TON of seriously arrogant assumptions. Might they be correct? Sure. But they are just as likely to be wrong.

Calling people sheeple this is wrong on TWO counts: It assumes the person to whom you aim the label is, in fact, wrong. Second, it assumes they're wrong due not to having MADE a wrong decision, but out of lack of even bothering to think it out for themselves.

In essence, the word 'sheeple' is supposed to mean 'non-thinking masses', but what it really means is 'people who don't agree with me'.

We can go around and around with people supplying examples of what they think sheeple are, and that is utterly irrelevant. The word is an intentional insult, intended to show the user's superiority.

I got kicked off another website for calling someone on saying 'That's gay.' The site had CLEAR rules about no homophobic comments. Sorry, that's homophobic. I called someone on it, the admin told me to stop harassing people. I left that site, after tearing that admin a new smurfhole.

Hate is hate, and no matter how sly you think you're being when you say it, it's still ugly. This word is used to create an ugly 'us and them' rift on arrogant footing.

I'm not saying that I'm without bias and prejudices. I'm saying that I see no possible way that the use of that word makes MTO a friendlier, more inclusive place for people to come and hang out, learn, and grow as people.

I'd sure love to hear what convoluted thinking someone could come up with to explain to me how calling people 'sheeple' could POSSIBLY make this site better.

[Mr. Whippy]

Lynn,

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.  I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with large portions of it.  This also applies to those who allow quackery to take the place of real, science based medicine, or real science based...science for that matter.

[Lynn LeFey]

This is not an 'agree to disagree' moment.

If you can somehow, EXPLAIN to me how calling people sheeple makes MTO a more harmonious and pleasant web experience, I'm all ears.

I'm not telling anyone what to think. I don't tell racists not to be racists. I know that I PERSONALLY have a lot of hangups, and make a lot of judgement calls on people, and assume my superiority.

I don't POST THAT CRAP on MTO.

See my point?

[enki_ck]

Are you two comparing can openers again?

 

[Lynn LeFey]

"Duck Season!"

[enki_ck]

Maybe a few PMs would be better on this subject. This is starting to go into politics and that never ends well.

I for one don't like the term and what it implies but think it hardly ever gets used here. I think this thread alone tops the use of the term here in the last whole year.

[lowtech]

I cannot remember to have used teh term and will not start now, but I gguess I betetr stock up on No. 10 bean cans, they might get hard to come by...

Serious, I don´t need the word in my vocabulary, but I can understand soem of teh points of eitehr side - But I am not a native speaker, so it´s hard to get/understand all teh small underlying subtext at times.
I won´t judge - Just stay out of Gargamels.

[Mr. Whippy]

This is not an 'agree to disagree' moment.

If you can somehow, EXPLAIN to me how calling people sheeple makes MTO a more harmonious and pleasant web experience, I'm all ears.

I'm not telling anyone what to think. I don't tell racists not to be racists. I know that I PERSONALLY have a lot of hangups, and make a lot of judgement calls on people, and assume my superiority.

I don't POST THAT CRAP on MTO.

See my point?

Actually I don't.  This is not characterizing people based on something intrinsic to their being which is unalterable.  Race, sex, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc.

I view this as a descriptor of a personal choice--a choice of being led without a significant input of logical thought.  It is no more derogatory than the term creationist, new ager or emo.  Most of us would consider these derogatory terms, but they are used to describe individuals who CHOOSE to not believe in evolution, CHOOSE to believe in New Age medical/health concepts and CHOOSE to have highly demonstrative and theatrical teenage angst.

I don't view it as a term of hatred, but more as a term of incredulity.

[Mr. Whippy]

Maybe a few PMs would be better on this subject. This is starting to go into politics and that never ends well.

I for one don't like the term and what it implies but think it hardly ever gets used here. I think this thread alone tops the use of the term here in the last whole year.

Good point.  Anything further should via PM

[Syph007]

I always took the term to be those who blindly follow without thinking for themselves.  Doenst matter if who/what they follow is good/bad its the fact that they are followers that gets them the label.   I think its a far cry from a hate word. 

[kirk13]

Funny enough, calling something 'gay' as a derogatory popped up at work the other day,as is the use of n*gg*r in the men's locker room. On reflection,I suspect its because the people involved are too young to remember what real prejudice was! I've had similar incidents both with staff and customers regarding being Northern Irish,and make a very personal point of standing up for Muslims,because I remember what it was like to be on the receiving end.

On a different level,I'd a discussion one night in SA with a Manchester United fan. When I was a kid,football was very tribal. This guy was kitted out in full club rig,as many people were at the time,mostly because Man U was the dominant team in the Premiership at the time. I queried why he was showing this devotion to a club he had no relation to. While I loath football( sorry,it's ok to play,but its SO boring to watch its started making F1 look interesting again). Turns out I knew far more about Man U,the FA,and even the SA Premiership than he did. He took it in good nature,but did query me about my worship of Valentino Rossi and Joey Dunlop...which is kind of like taking your finger out of a dyke ...and to me that's the difference: 'sheeple' follow without thought,or understanding...doing something because others are doing it.

I understand the point your making Lynn,and don't think your all together wrong, but people who follow anything blindly should be challenged. Blind followiers are dangerous people sooner or later