Weapons of War Through History

[kirk13]

If we are looking for a beautiful fighter I do think we need to take a glance at the De Havilland Vampire.

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And its a SAAF one as well!

[kkokkolis]

Talk about beauty?

[kirk13]

Talk about beauty?

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Mirage 2000! Nice

[kirk13]

Its one of those hushed over facts as to just how bad the Meteor and Vampires were. Fighter Command squadrons had similar death rates to squadrons flying combat ops in 43-44!

[Wilfried]

Soviet Armor in June 1941...       

[jerseydevil]

Gotta love the T-35 at the bottom right corner.  Five turrets! 

As to the "Fokker Scourge" - compared to the disaster that was the "Bloody April" of 1917, the Eindecker was really a minimal success.  There were only 28 confirmed kills by Eindecker pilots in the entire second half of 1915!  British doctrine at the time meant that B.E.2's and other two seaters on scouting and artillery spotting missions didn't carry a machine gun at all, to allow the saved weight to be used for extra fuel to improve endurance.  The same aircraft on bombing missions didn't carry a gun to increase bombload.  This changed pretty quickly after the Fokkers started showing up, along with group formations to present massed firepower against attacking fighters.  The arrival of the Nieuport 11, DH.2, and F.E.2b were the final nail in the coffing of the Eindecker.  Max Immelmann's death in action was also a severe blow.  Immelmann was the highest-scoring Eindecker pilot with 15 kills.  According to the Germans, his interrupter gear failed and he shot his own propeller off........

[Wilfried]

Gotta love the T-35 at the bottom right corner.  Five turrets! 

As to the "Fokker Scourge" - compared to the disaster that was the "Bloody April" of 1917, the Eindecker was really a minimal success.  There were only 28 confirmed kills by Eindecker pilots in the entire second half of 1915!  British doctrine at the time meant that B.E.2's and other two seaters on scouting and artillery spotting missions didn't carry a machine gun at all, to allow the saved weight to be used for extra fuel to improve endurance.  The same aircraft on bombing missions didn't carry a gun to increase bombload.  This changed pretty quickly after the Fokkers started showing up, along with group formations to present massed firepower against attacking fighters.  The arrival of the Nieuport 11, DH.2, and F.E.2b were the final nail in the coffing of the Eindecker.  Max Immelmann's death in action was also a severe blow.  Immelmann was the highest-scoring Eindecker pilot with 15 kills.  According to the Germans, his interrupter gear failed and he shot his own propeller off........

It's getting more and more interesting...   


I just found some extra info on this issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Scourge#cite_note-27

[Wilfried]

Martini-Henry Rifle



I'm inclined to think, that the first experience of the Martini-Henrys will be such a surprise to the Zulus, that they will not be formidable after the first experience.

Lord Chelmsford - 23 November 1878

During the Martini-Henry's service life the British army was involved in a large number of colonial wars, most notably the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879. The rifle was used in the Battle of Isandlwana, and by the company of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment of Foot at the Battle of Rorke's Drift, where 139 British soldiers successfully defended themselves against several thousand Zulus. The weapon was not completely phased out until 1904.

The rifle suffered from cartridge-extraction problems during the Zulu War, mostly due to the thin, weak, pliable foil brass cartridges used: they expanded too much into the rifle's chamber on detonation, to the point that they stuck or tore open inside the rifle's chamber. It would eventually become difficult to move the breech block and reload the rifle, substantially diminishing its effectiveness, or rendering it useless if the block could not be opened.
After investigating the matter, the British Army Ordnance Department determined the fragile construction of the rolled brass cartridge, and fouling due to the black-powder propellant, were the main causes of this problem.

However, the view maintained by martinihenry.com is as follows:

"In general, the Martini-Henry performed well during the Zulu War. It is the contention of some that chronic jams and cartridge feeding problems with the M-H were a contributing factor to the defeat of the men at Isandlhwana. I personally feel this theory to be lacking in factual evidence. While the occasional jam was a fact of life with black powder cartridge arms (moreso if the weapon is being rapidly fired, such as at Rorke's Drift), the M-H performed extremely well if properly cared for. The men who designed the M-H were not idiots, and would not have let a design flaw such as chronic jamming go unnoticed."

Back in the late 90s I watched a documentary -probably on BBC 2- which gave several reasons for the defeat at Isandlhwana:

1. Jamming of the rifle

2. Soldiers to thinly spread in engaging the Zulus

3. Difficulties in opening the ammunition boxes

I've always wondered how much of it is true...





I couldn't resist it!   

[Wilfried]

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II



The Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II is an American twin-engine, straight-wing jet aircraft developed by Fairchild-Republic in the early 1970s. The only United States Air Force aircraft designed solely for close air support of ground forces, the A-10 was built to attack tanks, armored vehicles, and other ground targets with limited air defenses.

The A-10 was designed around the GAU-8 Avenger, a 30 mm rotary cannon that is the airplane's primary armament and the heaviest such automatic cannon mounted on an aircraft. The A-10's airframe was designed for survivability, with measures such as 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of armor for protection of the cockpit and aircraft systems that enables the aircraft to continue flying after taking significant damage.

The A-10's official name comes from the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt of World War II, a fighter that was particularly effective at close air support. The A-10 is more commonly known by its nicknames "Warthog" or "Hog".

With a variety of upgrades and wing replacements, the A-10's service life has been extended to 2028.






A-10 Warthog Attack Run

[jerseydevil]

My grandfather worked for Republic for over 30 years out in Farmingdale.  The factory grounds are still an active airport.  The A-10 is sweet, I've seen them in the air numerous times. 

Now, as to the Martini-Henry.......

My father and I each own a Martini.  It's a great rifle and a ton of fun to shoot.  The Martini-Henry had a reputation for vicious recoil, but I've never thought so.  Then again, I'm just a bit larger than the average Victorian infantryman.....    Just last night I finished reading a book about Isandlhwana called How Can Man Die Better by Lt. Col Mike Snook, Royal Regiment of Wales.  He also wrote one about Rourke's Drift called Like Wolves on the Fold.  Both are excellent reads for anyone interested in the first invasion of Zululand.  The Martini jamming is blamed in part for Isandlhwana, but at Rourke's Drift, where such a defect would have made a larger difference, it wasn't mentioned as an issue.    The ammunition crates were held closed with a single screw, and a good shot to the lid with the butt of a rifle would pop them open.  1/24 was an experienced battalion that had been in action in South Africa for years.  Ammunition supply wasn't the problem, as the Zulu causality totals show.  Those redcoats sold their lives dearly for sure.  The camp was intended to be defended by two battalions, not one, but that morning Lord Chelmsford had taken 2/24 in the wrong direction looking for Zulus!  Chelmsford wasn't exactly the most competent field officer.....  There were a lot of other variables, but the rifle was the least of the British problems that afternoon.

And just for the record - in 1879, the 24th Foot were the Second Warwickshires, not the South Wales Boarderers.  Colour  Sargent Frank Bourne was only 24 at Rourke's Drift and 5'4".  His men called him "the kid".  Bourne retired a full Colonel in the British Army.  Henry Hook was a teetotaler and a model soldier.  His elderly daughters walked out of a screening of Zulu, offended by the way their father was portrayed on film.  Great movie, just not great history. 

[kirk13]

Just a fun addition on the subject of the Zulu. In the movie Chief  Cetshwayo was played by his great grandson,and future leader of the Inkata Freedom a Party, Mangosuthu Buthelezi!

I've visited Isandlhwana,and the reconstruction of Chaka Zulu's capital of Umgungunglovo,back in the day


On the subject of Warthogs...

In the nose art section of the Gulf Airwar Debrief,there's three particularly interesting A10s.

There's 'The Full Armour of God' and 'Sharper Than Any Double Edged Sword',both quotes from the New Testament...strange types these Warthog Drivers.

Oh,the third one was a set of Kill markings...tanks,APCs,a Helicopter(!)' and a bicycle!!! Hope he didn't need a Maverick for that!

[Wilfried]

My grandfather worked for Republic for over 30 years out in Farmingdale.  The factory grounds are still an active airport.  The A-10 is sweet, I've seen them in the air numerous times. 

Now, as to the Martini-Henry.......

My father and I each own a Martini.  It's a great rifle and a ton of fun to shoot.  The Martini-Henry had a reputation for vicious recoil, but I've never thought so.  Then again, I'm just a bit larger than the average Victorian infantryman.....    Just last night I finished reading a book about Isandlhwana called How Can Man Die Better by Lt. Col Mike Snook, Royal Regiment of Wales.  He also wrote one about Rourke's Drift called Like Wolves on the Fold.  Both are excellent reads for anyone interested in the first invasion of Zululand.  The Martini jamming is blamed in part for Isandlhwana, but at Rourke's Drift, where such a defect would have made a larger difference, it wasn't mentioned as an issue.    The ammunition crates were held closed with a single screw, and a good shot to the lid with the butt of a rifle would pop them open.  1/24 was an experienced battalion that had been in action in South Africa for years.  Ammunition supply wasn't the problem, as the Zulu causality totals show.  Those redcoats sold their lives dearly for sure.  The camp was intended to be defended by two battalions, not one, but that morning Lord Chelmsford had taken 2/24 in the wrong direction looking for Zulus!  Chelmsford wasn't exactly the most competent field officer.....  There were a lot of other variables, but the rifle was the least of the British problems that afternoon.

And just for the record - in 1879, the 24th Foot were the Second Warwickshires, not the South Wales Boarderers.  Colour  Sargent Frank Bourne was only 24 at Rourke's Drift and 5'4".  His men called him "the kid".  Bourne retired a full Colonel in the British Army.  Henry Hook was a teetotaler and a model soldier.  His elderly daughters walked out of a screening of Zulu, offended by the way their father was portrayed on film.  Great movie, just not great history. 

Excellent information, jerseydevil!

I would have been surprised if it were otherwise.   

As to the comparison of the performance of the Martini at Insandlhwana and Rourke's Drift: I also noted that a long time ago, but I wasn't sure what to make of it. Now I know.

That was the reason why I mentioned the opinion of martinihenry.com as against the 'standard' doctrine of Wikipedia.

It is almost inherent to the nature of movies that they don't depict the events historically. That should be common knowledge. The main reason I came up with the clip of Zulu (1964) is that I was at a loss to find anything more presentable on YouTube...
In principle I try to avoid this, but there are always exceptions.   

[Wilfried]

Thanks for the feedback, kirk13!   

[MadPlumbarian]

Probably one of the most popular yet over looked is the trebuchet, one of my fav shows is Punkin Chunkin, and they've got some good setups! JR

[kirk13]

Probably one of the most popular yet over looked is the trebuchet, one of my fav shows is Punkin Chunkin, and they've got some good setups! JR
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Nice one JR

Have you seen Jeremy Clarksons firing a Nissan Sunny from a trebuchet ?

[MadPlumbarian]

Probably one of the most popular yet over looked is the trebuchet, one of my fav shows is Punkin Chunkin, and they've got some good setups! JR
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Nice one JR

Have you seen Jeremy Clarksons firing a Nissan Sunny from a trebuchet ?

I think I saw a pic but I can't remember anything, so I'll have to look it up.. JR

[Wilfried]

Excellent, MadPlumbarian!   


The trebuchet was on my long list...


Warwick Castle Trebuchet

[kkokkolis]

That A-10 is very interesting, reminding WWII aircraft (Stuka, Sturmovic) but only at full air superiority one would dare to use them. That's the doctrine and capability of USAF of course. Other designs such as Harrier and Su-25, although less impressive, are more independent and battle proven.

[jerseydevil]

That A-10 is very interesting, reminding WWII aircraft (Stuka, Sturmovic) but only at full air superiority one would dare to use them. That's the doctrine and capability of USAF of course. Other designs such as Harrier and Su-25, although less impressive, are more independent and battle proven.

The A-10 is very survivable even in a high-threat environment.  Republic had a reputation for building aircraft that could take massive amounts of damage and get their crews home, like the P-57 and the F-84.  Hogs have returned to base missing half a tail, a third of a wing, and one engine after taking a direct hit from a SAM.  The A-10 actually scored more air-to-air kills in the first Gulf War than the F-14 Tomcat......  The Harrier's reputation as a fighter came at the expense of an air force whose pilots would shoot their missiles the second they saw an aircraft approaching, out of range and from lousy angles, and run for home as fast as they could.  The Argentine Navy pilots were the ones who were the more agressive opposition in the Falklands, and they only flew attack aircraft such as the A-4.  They were not afraid to press home their attacks, at low level, as HMS Coventry found out.  As for the Su-25, the Soviets used it in the same manner as the A-10 was used in Afghanistan, for close support in a non-aerial threat environment.  There have been far more Su-25's confirmed shot down in combat by fighters or ground fire in its career than Thunderbolts.  And I certainly wouldn't say that the A-10 is less battle-proven than the Harrier or the Sukhoi.

[jerseydevil]

And just to go back to South Africa in 1879 for a moment, the Zulus settled a major issue of whether or not there would be a Bonaparte restoration to the French throne by killing the Prince Imperial, Louis Napoleon, on June 1, 1879.  Louis died fighting with his face to the enemy after the British officer detailed to look after him ran along with his escort, then circled back and stood about 50 yards away without firing as Louis went down under a flurry of iklwa thrusts.  The Zulu War fascinated me ever since the first time I saw Zulu as a kid, and my father bought our first Martini-Henry.  The story of what actually happened at Rourke's Drift started my lifelong passion with military history.

[kkokkolis]

No objection jerseydevil. Facts are facts. Maybe it's how different it looks.

[Gareth]

Excellent, MadPlumbarian!   


The trebuchet was on my long list...


Warwick Castle Trebuchet

Not quite as impressive as the Warwick one, but I have had the opportunity to shoot this one at Caerphilly castle.

[lister]

How about some space age guns?

The TP-82 pistol with two 32 gauge smoothbore barrels and one rifled barrel for 5.45×39mm cartridge. It is a part of soyuz survival equipment. And it hides a machete in its removable stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

Then there is supposedly this soviet laser pistol courtesy of USSR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol

 

[kirk13]

How about some space age guns?

The TP-82 pistol with two 32 gauge smoothbore barrels and one rifled barrel for 5.45×39mm cartridge. It is a part of soyuz survival equipment. And it hides a machete in its removable stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

Then there is supposedly this soviet laser pistol courtesy of USSR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol

 

Nice one!

Have you tried one on Rimmer?

[lister]

How about some space age guns?

The TP-82 pistol with two 32 gauge smoothbore barrels and one rifled barrel for 5.45×39mm cartridge. It is a part of soyuz survival equipment. And it hides a machete in its removable stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

Then there is supposedly this soviet laser pistol courtesy of USSR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol

 

Nice one!

Have you tried one on Rimmer?

 

I didn't shoot at Rimmer, since I don't want to damage the holographic projector. But the Cat loves the laser pistol... 

[Wilfried]

Excellent, MadPlumbarian!   


The trebuchet was on my long list...


Warwick Castle Trebuchet

Not quite as impressive as the Warwick one, but I have had the opportunity to shoot this one at Caerphilly castle.

I love it! Also because of the music!   

[Wilfried]

M65 Atomic Cannon



The M65 Atomic Cannon, often called Atomic Annie, was a towed artillery piece built by the United States and capable of firing a nuclear device.

It was developed in the early 1950s, at the beginning of the Cold War, and fielded by 1953 in Europe and Korea.

 Robert Schwartz, the engineer who created the preliminary designs, essentially scaled up the 240mm shell (then the maximum in the arsenal) and used the German K5 railroad gun as a point of departure for the carriage. (The name "Atomic Annie" likely derives from the nickname "Anzio Annie" given to a German K5 gun which was employed against the American landings in Italy.

On May 25, 1953 at 8:30am, the Atomic Cannon was tested at Nevada Test Site.  The test — codenamed Grable —   resulted in the successful detonation of a 15 kt shell (W9 warhead) at a range of 7 miles. This was the first and only nuclear shell to be fired from a cannon.

The M65 was effectively obsolete soon after it was deployed. However, it remained a prestige weapon and was not retired until 1963.



The Atomic Cannon at the Virginia War Museum





The Atomic Cannon at Aberdeen Proving Grounds




A video excerpt of the only live fire test of a 15 kiloton nuclear warhead fired in the Nevada desert in 1953. Please note: the sepia-toned blast-effects footage in the video clip is almost certainly not from this test, but from earlier nuclear tests.

[Wilfried]

Some extra visiuals in relation to my earlier post (#13) Roman legionary's clothing, armour and equipment, especially weapons.

[lister]

Not strictly speaking a weapon of war, but I think it has its place on multi tool forum. The apache revolver, probably useless but mos ingenious combination weapon combining brass knuckles, dagger and pepperbox revolver:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_revolver

  

[jerseydevil]

No objection jerseydevil. Facts are facts. Maybe it's how different it looks.

All good.  Sorry if that response came off a bit strong, not my intention. 

Not strictly speaking a weapon of war, but I think it has its place on multi tool forum. The apache revolver, probably useless but mos ingenious combination weapon combining brass knuckles, dagger and pepperbox revolver:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_revolver

  

  I've read that the only way you could guarantee hitting your target with a shot from one of those was to stick the dagger all the way in and then pull the trigger......