car insurance- what to expect?

[ironraven]

So, let me open by saying I'm ok. Physically. It's the fiscally I'm kind of terrified and stressing about.

Last night, I found black ice on a significantly steep hill with four doglegs on the road. I almost recovered, then my aft end went into space and I was stopped by a nice tree from going into the river. And my little toy truck it's so healthy looking- might be repairable, might be totaled. Cops showed up, it's been towed to the wrecking company's lot, not a garage.

I've never been in an accident before other than one minor fender bender shortly after I got my license. I've never been down this road, I really don't know what to expect in terms of dealing with the insurance company- so far all they've done is give me a claim number and that's it, I have no idea when an appraiser will be out to check it. I've also got 10 payments left on it. 

I know one thing- I'm not buying knives for a while. But past that, what's the normal chain of events?

[gorbag]

Depends on your policy.  When my wife wiped the Subaru, the assessor had an approved garage go over the car, checked cost of repairs against our coverage levels, and basically told us the car was totalled. We got a check later. Yours being a newer car should make for a better situation, but check your policy for specifics.

The world belongs to the funkiest.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Chances are, if the cost of the repair exceeds 50% of the value of your car it'll be written off.  The percentage is set by your insurance company, so it may vary a bit.  If it's written off your payments are done- that's what insurance is for.  You can opt to make those last ten payments and not make an insurance claim if you are worried about higher rates though, that is up to you.

If the car is written off, you can theoretically buy it back, depending on your local laws.  If you like the car and/or have a sentimental attachment, and it's worth it to you to have it fixed some places will allow you to recertify a written off car for the road, assuming it can pass an inspection.  Your insurance company may have issues with a recertified car, so be sure to check with that too- just because the government says it's legal doesn't mean the insurance company has to insure it.

An insurance adjustor not only looks at the state of your car but also investigates the scene of the accident.  If the conditions weren't that bad and they decide that speed may have been a factor, don't expect them to be too forgiving.  If they'd had a number of claims on that section of road and the weather was bad and you are required to drive that road (ie, only way out of your neighborhood, or on the way to your job) and there are no other circumstances (alcohol, excessive speed etc) then they will probably be a lot more lenient.  Depending on your policy they could even forgive this if it is the first accident you have had in three or five years, and not increase your rates.

If the repair value is less than 50% (or whatever repair cost is) then they will generally leave it to you to make the repair arrangements and the shop will send them the bill, they will pay it and life goes on.

I deal with insurance companies every day and a friend of mine's wife is an adjuster, so I will be happy to help if I can.  It should be pretty well strightforward- insurance companies have a lot of experience doing this and generally make it pretty easy to walk you through the process.

Good luck and glad to hear you weren't hurt.  Cars can be repaired or replaced, people can't.

Def

[derekmac]

Sorry to hear about!  Chances are, if it's an older vehicle, they'll want to write it off.  Like Def said, you should be able to buy it back from them though if they do, and you'll probably get more than enough to get it back on the road.

It will also depend on your policy also.  For me, on the Jeep, I only have the most basic insurance you can get.  If I go off the road, then it's up to me to have to pay for the repairs, but on our car we have full coverage.

Hope everything works out for you.

[ironraven]

Thanks Grant.

I think that the second cruiser on scene was slipping and sliding will a point in my favor. That hill gets closed at least once a year because a truck ends up stuck in it. Last time, it was fire department tanker that went side ways while going up it, got the front AND rear wheels in the ditches.

The only other way is the other side of the same hill- it's a streight shot of interstate that is just as steep. It's probably nothing to someone from Idaho or Colorado, but it's one of the three nastiest hills in the state IMO.

[Grant Lamontagne]

No problem.  Since I don't know your state laws or your policy details I'm stuck mostly to generalizations, but as no one was hurt and it's a hill well known to the insurance company they will probably cut you a check to cover the final payments of your vehicle, plus a little more for replacement if you have it.  Basically if your car has a blue book value of $10,000 and you have $4,000 left to pay on it, they'll probably send you a cheque for $5-6,000 for you and the rest will go to pay off the loan.  Minus some fees and so on.

That's if it's to be written off.  If the company feels it's repairable then they will probably have you contact an approved repair shop in your area and make the arrangements to get it done when it's convenient for you.  Remember that if you have an insurance sponsored rental car in the meantime you may have a limited window to get it done, so don't drag your feet.

In many cases a write off is preferable as the insurance will pay to have the vehicle restored, but in most jurisdictions you are required to disclose any accidents the vehicle has been in when you sell it.  This drops the resale price significantly, especially if the car has any problems.  Cheapo shops have been known to do ultra crappy repair jobs, so if it's repaired, keep an eye on things like uneven tire wear which could mean there's still a very significant problem.  If it's driveable, try to take it to a few different shops and get them all to look closely at the frame- if that's smurfed the car is smurfed, no matter what anyone else tells you.  A frame can be straightened, but to do it properly is a long and expensive process.

Def

[ironraven]

Total writeoff.

Lift gate would have to be replaced, there origami-like folds in the frame at the back, exhaust system totally shot, suspension trashed, steering column damage (that's how they phrased it)...

When I break something, I really break it. I got the paperwork for the check today, notarizing and sending it out tomorrow.

I'm actually getting concerned though. I blew two light bulbs when I got back to the apartment afterwards. I've blown seven more in different locations since. Stress shouldn't be doing that.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm sure the lightbulb issue is just coincidence.  I doubt your stress can travel through your household wiring!

Total write off's are more common these days as cars are  pretty complex.  There's a lot more to fixing them than just pounding out a dent and buffing the paint.  Any impact is designed to be channeled through the frame and body to absorb the impact add much as possible, keeping the occupant safe.

Try to relax, there's not really a lot to be stressed about.  Look forward to test driving new vehicles and be glad you weren't hurt and that you had insurance.  You'd be amazed at how many people don't.

Def

Sent from a digital multitool

[ironraven]

I'm sure it's a coincidence to. But it makes for great telling- particlarly if I start to reach for someone's smart phone afterwards.

Paperwork should get to the check people tommorrow, looking this weekend, probably buying next weekend. I probably wont' get back as much as I hope just because I still owe some on it, but, yeah, it did it's job- that's kind of why I'm feeling an emotional rather than finacial and operational loss. Little smurf truck did a fine job when it absolutely mattered, and she's going to get parted out and the rest smelted.

Reincarnation- now for our tech. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yeah, it's sad to see an old friend go.  I was never fond of my wife's Sunfire as a car, but for years it was our only transport and I logged a lot of miles on that thing.  She bought it new and we had it for eleven years- it owed us nothing when it was time to replace it but I was sad to see it go.  Sadder than my wife, and it was her first car. 

What kind of truck was it?  I'm sure you have told us before but I'll be danged if I can remember.  Also, what are you looking for as a replacement?

Def

[ironraven]

"Truck". Ford Escape.

I'm looking for similiar or a wagon, but... what is in the budget is $10K and I want <100K miles and <6 years old, so that probably isn't happening.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I liked the Escapes up until the new model came out.  I think they were great until the redesign for 2013, which I think is horrible.  I can't tell it from the Edge or half the other teardrop generic SUV's out there.

Prior to 2013 they were a beautiful rig.  I have rented a few and looked seriously at one.  If it hadn't been for IFS and all wheel drive I'd have grabbed one of the last 2012's on the lot at my local Ford dealer rather than get a Jeep.

Def

[Chako]

A word of caution about the Ford Escapes. I have a close friend who owned a 2010 Ford Escape. I almost bought one after looking at here's. She was having a fan issue. When she brought it back in, they found a lot of rust inside where there shouldn't be. The local Ford dealer told her they could fix it but it would need about 7K of repairs. He also let slip that Ford knew about these issues with Escape but didn't want to call a recall unless the government forces them to. The dealer told her to get ride of it...a 4 year old vehicle. She took their advice and traded it somewhere else as the Ford folks didn't want to give her hardly anything. She now drives a 2014 Jeep Cherokee.

So if what was told to me is true, I would sort of hesitate on buying a Ford Escape. Just be forewarned.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I wonder if that was one of the reasons for such a radical redesign?   

Of course, in my neck of the woods, everything rusts quickly so it probably wouldn't even be noticed here.   

Def

[ToolJoe]

"Truck". Ford Escape.

I'm looking for similiar or a wagon, but... what is in the budget is $10K and I want <100K miles and <6 years old, so that probably isn't happening.

Are you looking for front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, four/all wheel drive in your new vehicle?

[Grant Lamontagne]

"Truck". Ford Escape.

I'm looking for similiar or a wagon, but... what is in the budget is $10K and I want <100K miles and <6 years old, so that probably isn't happening.

Are you looking for front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, four/all wheel drive in your new vehicle?

Make sure the forum gets the commission on that particular EDC item! 

Def

[ironraven]

Mine was a 2006, and yeah, rust was an early issue with it. Who the smurf rolls the edges of a body panel, particularly that deep? The original dealer and I had a bit of a row about it, had rust bubbling through the paint barely a year after I bought it but it was out of any warente. Despite their claims it was clean of rust at time of purchase I found bondo when I tried to take care of it. I will never go to them again nor recommend that dealer. The panel above the rear left wheel well was basically being held together with paint and nearly disintegrated between the impact and getting the truck out. And I don't want one of the new ones, they look like smurf and I've watched too many of them fail to get up hills.

Pity Subaru's are so popular up here- they devalue less than the dollar. It's sick, the only Outback I've seen for less that $15K was a '02. Priuses (Priusi?) and Minis have weaker cults in Vermont than Subeys.

And I'm looking for front, I've never really driven 4wd on the road and I've never driven AWD. And the middle of winter is NOT the time I want to be learning how it handles. I know what FWD can do.

[sir_mike]

Well it depends on the insurance company!

About 7-8 months after my wife bought a brand new Honda CR-V in 2007 and she was going down the road on a four lane, two way busy street.  She was going about 40 and a lady made a left turn right in front of her and bam, smashed the front end to smithereens!  It sucked as there was barely 5000 miles on it but the good thing was my wife didnt get hurt at all.  Now for the bad news!

Bad news is that the insurance company opted to fix the car cause the dealership's body shop quoted it so it was just under 70% of its value or they would have to total it.  Believe me, the dealership knew how to quote it cause if they quoted it too high, they wouldn't have gotten the work cause it would have been totaled and we on the other hand, ended up with a car that was like new that with 5000+ miles on it, had issues.  The long and short of it is, the dealership said they could fix it like new with todays technology and got paid alot to do it but it was never the same as it had rattles, things making little noise, etc.

I was so pissed at the insurance company that they wouldn't total the car out but they didnt seem to care.  We ended up having to trade away the car cause we couldnt stand it anymore.  We ended up with a Subaru, which aside from a faulty rear view mirror that had to be replace has been a very good vehicle but dont get me wrong, we still like the CR-V's but will never let the dealership give us the only quote!

Good luck! 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I would avoid a second hand Prius, Insight or any hybrid or electric car if I was you.  Battery tech is quite limited and the batteries (from my limited research and understanding of batteries) shows that batteries can pretty well crap out after as few as five years and almost certainly after ten, requiring a new set of batteries which can cost almost as much as the car was when it was new.  Hybrids and electric cars, as they currently stand are to be considered disposable at best.

Mike, you are absolutely right, and that is a terrible thing to have happen to you.  That's why I said in a lot of cases it's better to have the whole thing written off.  If you'd had a chat with the dealership about perhaps buying a replacement car from them they may have been willing to give a different quote.  The dealerships are usually happy to do this since it means that they move a new car off the lot and it provides a number of perfectly good parts to the secondary market so they end up making money on both ends.

The real issue is with resale of the car after it's been "repaired."  Many cars can be safely repaired, but as I said, proper repair is often a very expensive proposition and many body shops will quote even higher than the repair is worth as folks will rarely be happy with the results of a car that has undergone major repairs, and it often gives the body shop a bad name.  Often a repaired car will have lingering issues that may contribute to the car having another accident, and the shop that did the repair could potentially be held liable, which body shops don't want either.  Some cars just shouldn't be repaired, no matter how good a body shop is.  Body shops don't want anything with frame damage- all they want to do (highest $$ for the least time) is replace a body panel and paint it.

No one will pay top dollar for a car that has been in even the slightest accident, and you are legally required in most jurisdictions to disclose any accidents the car has been in, regardless of how bad it is.  You can really lose a lot of money for a car that has had even the slightest fender bender, and any car that has had serious work done can end up being worth a lot less than it would be otherwise.  When you only have 5,000 miles on the odometer that can hurt you big time.

Insurance companies are kind of slimy sometimes- they can dictate whether a car is repairable or not, then refuse to insure you (or raise your rates) on the grounds that you are driving a repaired vehicle and they don't cover those.  It's a rare thing, but it can happen from time to time.  The bottom line is, if you are going to get into an accident, make it a good one! 

Def

[sir_mike]

We did get pretty lucky when we got rid of it cause we bought another new car so I was able to negotiate blue book value on the CR-V even though I told the Subaru dealership about the accident and that my insurance company spent around $15,000+ to fix it.  They bought it from us like it didnt matter on the accident and I got a better deal on the new Subaru.

I did talk to the Honda dealership about getting a new one at the time and they didnt seem real interested in selling me a new one vs getting a bunch of money to fix the one we had.  I thought it was kinda strange but maybe I didnt talk to the right people.  Not sure!

I still like Honda's alot but not sure if I will ever let them fix one again!  One of the real issues I had with my insurance company is that for about $5000-6000 more I could have gotten a new one but I understand about the economics of the insurance company!

[ironraven]

Well, time for a follow up. I have my newest internal cumbustion powered multitool- 2011 Hyundai Sonata w/ 67K on it.

It started off at just under 13, but I talked them down. I spent a little more than I wanted, eleven-five, but if I'd paid 11000 for a ride and THEN had to put snow tires on it would have been the same- they're even studded, new this fall. I'm only 90% in love with it, but it handles better than the Escape did even if it means I can't just slog on through 8" of snow, so I think I won't find myself hating it over the next several years.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Good to hear you found something good.  It is quite an adjustment to go from a truck to a car and you may find yourself missing out on certain "truck aspects" like a higher viewing angle and cargo capacity, but hopefully the smoother, lighter ride and better fuel economy will compensate.

As much as I like my VW, I doubt I could ever go truck-less ever again.  The VW is great on the highway, has great mileage and almost as much cargo space as my Jeep, but the inability to see over snowbanks in the winter has me more than a little concerned!

Def

[bmot]

Good to hear you found something good.  It is quite an adjustment to go from a truck to a car and you may find yourself missing out on certain "truck aspects" like a higher viewing angle and cargo capacity, but hopefully the smoother, lighter ride and better fuel economy will compensate.

As much as I like my VW, I doubt I could ever go truck-less ever again.  The VW is great on the highway, has great mileage and almost as much cargo space as my Jeep, but the inability to see over snowbanks in the winter has me more than a little concerned!

Def

Pffft, you and your Canadian problems 

[Grant Lamontagne]

See, now if I was Dutch I'd want a heated steering wheel because I imagine one's fingers get cold plugging the dams.   

Def

Sent from a digital multitool

[bmot]

See, now if I was Dutch I'd want a heated steering wheel because I imagine one's fingers get cold plugging the dams.   

Def

Sent from a digital multitool

Meh, only if one's name is Hans :p