firearms

[jerseydevil]

Sorry guys, I got the bullets set for pics, got the camera out....... The damn battery was dead.    I'll get the pics and post them tomorrow. 

If you want something heavy, get a Walker or Dragoon. The Dragoon would be appropriate, considering you're in the cavalry.

"Well, now the Duck of Death is as good as dead 'cause this time Corky does it right an' aims real good, no hurry... Bam! That Walker Colt blew up in his hand... which was a failing common to that model. Now if Corky would have really had two guns instead of just a big smurf he could have defended himself to the end."

- Little Bill Daggett (Gene Hackman), Unforgiven.

[HarleyXJGuy]

Sorry guys, I got the bullets set for pics, got the camera out....... The damn battery was dead.    I'll get the pics and post them tomorrow. 

Fail. 

Been checking out the New Army Conversion on the Uberti site. Pretty neat.

[jerseydevil]

Fail. 

I know.    Be patient, if I'm feeling nice there might be a pic of an original .56-56 Spencer cartridge included...... 

[NKlamerus]

Simple. Remmy 308....a USED 308...no show cases here. But my shots a little high in the pic

[HarleyXJGuy]

Simple. Remmy 308....a USED 308...no show cases here. But my shots a little high in the pic(Image removed from quote.)

Whaat scope is this, Redfield?

[NKlamerus]

Simple. Remmy 308....a USED 308...no show cases here. But my shots a little high in the pic(Image removed from quote.)

Whaat scope is this, Redfield?

I'll have to check next time I'm up at camp.

Either way I hate it. You can't tell in this photo but the shape of the scope at the eye end is square. There is NO position you can be in where there isn't  negative view in the corners.

[Lynn LeFey]

This video came up on my youtube feed, and it's pretty much what I'd been hearing, that the FBI was switching back to 9mm, and suggesting that law enforcement agencies do the same.

While the maker of this video repeats the FBI statement, that the 9mm, using premium ammo, outperforms all other LE options (40., .357 Sig, and .45), and makes some other statements about the Military sticking with the 9mm Beretta 92, it misses the point that  improvement in performance of the 9mm round is due entirely to better bullet design, specifically hollowpoint reliability, and hollowpoints are banned from military use. This means there's still reasonable possibility that the military might opt for a bigger round, because all things being equal, a bigger caliber hardball does better than smaller calibers.

My guess, if I had to make one, as to what the military will do is... nothing, at least not for a few years. The least expensive option is to just stick with what they have. This video also mentions service contracts for accessories, but neglects to mention that the military stockpiles large quantities of ammo, and orders for this stuff can take years to fill. My hubby's dad, before he passed away, was a DOD civilian who did ammo acquisition. It was a full time job, and I'm guessing he wasn't the only guy doing it.

Anyway, I don't agree 100% with this guy, but he makes some good points.

[HarleyXJGuy]

This video came up on my youtube feed, and it's pretty much what I'd been hearing, that the FBI was switching back to 9mm, and suggesting that law enforcement agencies do the same.

While the maker of this video repeats the FBI statement, that the 9mm, using premium ammo, outperforms all other LE options (40., .357 Sig, and .45), and makes some other statements about the Military sticking with the 9mm Beretta 92, it misses the point that  improvement in performance of the 9mm round is due entirely to better bullet design, specifically hollowpoint reliability, and hollowpoints are banned from military use. This means there's still reasonable possibility that the military might opt for a bigger round, because all things being equal, a bigger caliber hardball does better than smaller calibers.

My guess, if I had to make one, as to what the military will do is... nothing, at least not for a few years. The least expensive option is to just stick with what they have. This video also mentions service contracts for accessories, but neglects to mention that the military stockpiles large quantities of ammo, and orders for this stuff can take years to fill. My hubby's dad, before he passed away, was a DOD civilian who did ammo acquisition. It was a full time job, and I'm guessing he wasn't the only guy doing it.

Anyway, I don't agree 100% with this guy, but he makes some good points.

As far as 9mm ammo goes I am willing to bet there is not much left based on umm my experience.

Would also give even odds or better on any bet that there will be no change in the Armys sidearm anytime soon.

Lastly I would kill to have a .45 striker fired or DAO as my sidearm.

[jerseydevil]

I'm a bit surprised that the FBI is willing to go back to the 9mm.  This is why they went to the 10mm.  There was a HUGE stink over it at the time.  Even then, they cut the load back on the 10 so the recoil wasn't as bad, which ultimately led to the .40 S&W.  In a military situation, expanding bullets are illegal in terms of the Geneva Convention.  Therefore, a larger FMJ round will cause a bigger hole than a smaller one.  That's why the .45ACP has prevailed over all these years.  And for the record, the .455 Webley cartridge fired a heavier bullet than the .45ACP, 265gr vs 230gr.

[jerseydevil]

As far as 9mm ammo goes I am willing to bet there is not much left based on umm my experience.

Under no circumstances is this the place for me to ask, not something I go out of my way to ask veterans.  The stories I've heard are ALL given under those gentleman's own free will, not me poking.  All the same, 

[HarleyXJGuy]

I'm a bit surprised that the FBI is willing to go back to the 9mm.  This is why they went to the 10mm.  There was a HUGE stink over it at the time.  Even then, they cut the load back on the 10 so the recoil wasn't as bad, which ultimately led to the .40 S&W.  In a military situation, expanding bullets are illegal in terms of the Geneva Convention.  Therefore, a larger FMJ round will cause a bigger hole than a smaller one.  That's why the .45ACP has prevailed over all these years.  And for the record, the .455 Webley cartridge fired a heavier bullet than the .45ACP, 265gr vs 230gr.

There is a large difference between the 9mm round of today then the one used in 86. Still I am to surprised to see the FBI go back to the 9mm. More from a political angle then effectiveness though. Not like goverment agencys to admit they may have made a mistake.

FMJ though 9mm is a joke. Course we knew you needed larger calibers for FMJ since 1899. Nothing new.

Of course you know what happened in 1899 JD.

[jerseydevil]

Of course you know what happened in 1899 JD.

   Check your PM.....

In 1899 the US Army was fighting a war in the Philippines, which the vast majority of US citizens have never heard of.  At the time, the standard US sidearm was a revolver in .38 Long Colt, which was weaker than today's .38 Special.  Those bullets did not stop what they were hitting, even when they didn't bounce off their targets.    The US military went back to the .45LC and then to the .45ACP because of this experience, and only went to the 9mm in 1985 for political reasons. 

[Lynn LeFey]

Harley, are you expressly forbidden from carrying your own personal (non-issue) side arm in Afghanistan?

While I was 'in the military', I was in the Air force, and more, in AMC, and more than that, CONUS, and more than that, in the middle of a cornfield in Illinois. I was about as non-military as you can get and still be considered military. Only the MPs had firearms on Scott. So I really have no idea what the regs are for sidearms.

There are some nice .45 DAO or striker fired pistols out there, but I guess you know that already. But if you're not allowed to carry them, they aren't much good.

[HarleyXJGuy]

Of course you know what happened in 1899 JD.

   Check your PM.....

In 1899 the US Army was fighting a war in the Philippines, which the vast majority of US citizens have never heard of.  At the time, the standard US sidearm was a revolver in .38 Long Colt, which was weaker than today's .38 Special.  Those bullets did not stop what they were hitting, even when they didn't bounce off their targets.    The US military went back to the .45LC and then to the .45ACP because of this experience, and only went to the 9mm in 1985 for political reasons.

Knew you could explain it better then I can.

[ducttapetech]

Also know as the "One Shot and they drop"

[HarleyXJGuy]

Harley, are you expressly forbidden from carrying your own personal (non-issue) side arm in Afghanistan?

No, not no but smurf no.

I would so have my Glock 23 rocking Speer Lawman if I could.

Limited to 9mm using our issue ammo I would Glock 19 or SIG 226.

[jerseydevil]

Also know as the "One Shot and they drop"

Yeah, pretty much.  I was trying to be PC. 

Lynn, it's not 1944 where the local PD sends you a .45 revolver to use against those Nazis.  That being said, I've heard of times........

[HarleyXJGuy]

Also know as the "One Shot and they drop"

Not trying to start an argument and I assume you are joking but this is not the case.

A pistol is a very ineffective weapon when used by trained folks.

One shot stops is very much the exeption rather then the rule.

Important to know and train for if you use a firearm for self defense.

[dmanuel]

So figured I would share a photo. Didn't spend the time to actually set up the picture, just a quick shot.

[captain spaulding]

Is that a Over/Under with a scope? 

Awesome scope by the way.

[dmanuel]

It's a Merkel Stutzen K3 in a Mannlicher stock. Wonderful rifle. All breaks down nicely to store in a briefcase.

[captain spaulding]

It's a Merkel Stutzen K3 in a Mannlicher stock. Wonderful rifle. All breaks down nicely to store in a briefcase.

Ah ok. That makes more sense. Beautiful rifle!

[kirk13]

It's a Merkel Stutzen K3 in a Mannlicher stock. Wonderful rifle. All breaks down nicely to store in a briefcase.

Ah ok. That makes more sense. Beautiful rifle!

Stutzen 

[Lynn LeFey]

I went shooting yesterday with some friends.

I finally got to shoot the Mosin Nagant. I fired it once, set it down, and told my friend 'Thank you. You just saved me $150'. I found it about like being punched in the shoulder while every bone in my upper body was rattled. I don't consider myself all that recoil sensitive, but found the experience extremely unpleasant. Now I won't be tempted to buy one, regardless of how cheap they may be.

Another friend has a Tavor, and I've been waiting to fire it. I could only manage to shoot it twice, since the safety switch was set up for right hand fire, and being left handed, it sets a LOT lower than on (for instance) an AR15. This meant when I fired it, the selector lever would dig into my hand just behind the first knuckle of my index finger. No broken skin, but bruising from two shots. Without the buffer system of the AR, it's not nearly as smooth a shooter. There are apparently two trigger reset springs, that give it what I could only describe as about the worst trigger I've ever felt in my life, but you can remove one of the springs and it greatly smooths out the trigger. The trigger spring thing is intended to allow the gun to function in sandy/gritty conditions, and in combat, is meant to make the firearm more reliable. On an indoor range, it's just a serious annoyance. My friend had done this and it made it... sort of middle of the road. Not great, not horrible. She also had a scope on it, and has it set up weirdly far to the rear, so I couldn't quite get my eye to focus through it. For the cost, I just do NOT get the appeal of the gun. I don't need a bullpup design that bad.

I also got to shoot another friend's new CCW pistol, the Springfield XDs. It was set up with laser sights and... wow. It shot super accurate for me. I put two 7-round mags through it and got two 1.5" groups at 7 yards, weaver stance.





In both cases, I was aiming for the number 8 on the target. So, it's shooting a bit high and left. I shot the XD subcompact and liked it a good bit too. This time, I got the shoot the XDs and S&W Shield one right after the other, and didn't have a huge difference in my opinion of which was better. The Shield seems to fit perfectly in my hand, but it was a very minor ergonomic improvement, as far as actual shooting performance, they were the same. I had a good deal of muzzle flip on my first shot of the XDs, and just adjusted my grip a bit to get rid of the problem.

I shot a few more 3.5" and 4" groups with my Ruger LC9. I thought I was doing pretty well with it, and handed it off to my friend with the Mosin. He shot... uhhh... well, he hit the target (paper) twice out of the 7 shots he fired. I guess he's more of a rifle guy. 

I got a little bit sub 3" group with hubby's S&W Shield, and was getting consistent 2" groups from all the .22 pistols I fired. That would be our Ruger SR22, Berretta Neos, and a friend's S&W 22A. It was odd that the SR22 was shooting as well as the other two, with their longer barrels.

All the pistols were being shot at 7 yards, and the rifles at 33 yards (the max distance on that indoor range). When we checked in, the guy at the counter asked to see all of our ammo. usually they don't care about .22, but they wanted to see that as well. He said they had to now, because 'some guy brought in incendiary ammo and caught our range on fire'.

I think the best part of this whole thing is that the range we go to is connected to a BBQ joint with REALLY good BBQ. I just hope I'm not living up too much to the 'Murica stereotypes, but... I mean, come on. Shooting and eating dead animals. That's just a good afternoon!

[ColoSwiss]

Nice groups! 

Good BBQ is always a plus!

[dks]

[Gareth]

(Image removed from quote.)

......or



Just because not all of our Police are armed, doesn't mean none of them are.

[dks]

(Image removed from quote.)

......or

(Image removed from quote.)

Just because not all of our Police are armed, doesn't mean none of them are.

So, you are English ?

[Gareth]

English and Welsh blood as well as Scottish.

[dks]