Leatherman Signal - is LM making a survival multi?

[dks]

I do like the colour   

[gadgetman7]

I'd like to play with one but I don't think I'd buy one new at that price. I think I'll wait until I can get a used one. Sad because I thought this would be a really good tool. The whistle/firestarter and file just really seem like a waste of space for their limited functionality. I guess they could have one of the remaining survival guys try to sell it for them.


Sent from Tracy Island

[Mr Biriyani]

I´m quite positive to it. I like the formfactor, square-ish but rounded. Looks well build.
I was against usining plastic on the fuse line but now afterwards it turned out to hold up very well. Maybe it´s the same kind of plastic.(eventhough not using plastic is optimal in my book)

I'm just thinking about this and I honestly can't think of a time I've ever needed to blow an emergency whistle, and I've been enjoying the great outdoors for more than 25 years.

I actually had to use one ones while mountainbiking  and if that whistle would have tasted a little from the ferro rod I would not have mind. I was glad I had one. It´s just that. You use it ones or hopefully never. If you use a whistle a lot of some reason I guess you have one dedicated around your neck. Using the side to place some extra tools seems like a good idea.
My concern now that I saw the latest video is that i steals to much space.It takes up the full space in one handle where there could be other tools. I realize it´s on the hammer side which complicates it.(don´t have a MUT to compare to)
I´m sure they could have solved it in better way. Maybe in the pouch as someone suggested. But I see their point of having it all in the tool.
Also like the hammer I´v hold my Surge many times thinking "It´s heavy enough to use a small hammer device" but not finding any side of it I´m willing to bash up.
It´s not perfect but I see it can fit a role for me. I will get it eventually as the new models of Leatherman usually are quite expensive over here.

[GPDB]

I see a lot of opportunities for some additional 3d printed tools...

[TheDude]

Is it 100% made in the USA?

[RT1969]

Disclaimer: I am quite sick atm, so please excuse any errors or obvious statements, I try my best.

First a thank you to all the posters that keep us up to date here! 

My thoughts so far:

The Good:
- Beefy Blade (I am not quite sure if it is intended for batoning, but I think a HC Steel might be better for this than powdermetallurgic steel (154cm / S35V LM uses otherwise) - I think LM intended the blade to be rather ductile than brittle, to avoid shattering/outbreaks. More so, that edge retention is a no-issue due to the file)
- Wood saw (I saw no complains on that! )
- Pliers This seems to be the new standard plier head, no complains here
- Removable Tools (I like the idea of the integrated sharpener/file. And also the addition of the firestarter rod. As this needs a handle anyway, I quite like the inclusion of the emergency whistle. Better to have and not need... comes to mind.)
- Hammer Head (I think this will be useful for a lot of tasks, I like it)

Indifferent:
- The carabiner. Meh, I don't need it. Bottle opner is nice, though.
- Pocket clip.

The Bad:
- Bit holder: I don't get it. There aren't a lot of screws in the woods, and if it would have been a fixed flathead, you could at least pry with it. Good look prying with a bit...
-The inside tools. Why? Why include tools, that you are barely able to use? Who wants to turn a screw with the pliers folded out? Or use the underwhelming awl? This features seem to collide with the hammer bit. I am unsure how to solve this dilemma.
- the yellow Plastic parts. I am not sure, how robust they turn out to be. also how long the firesteel will rotate before breaking free.
- The hexhole in the hammer. There is already a freacking bit driver on the tool! Why weaken the part expecting the most impact? I don't see any use for it on this tool!
- CE Main Blade. Ughh.. PE would have been so much better. The way it is, forget effective batoning, detailed work, easy sharpening... 

What I would improve:
- Make the Blade Plain Edge
- Widen the tool, so that there can be 2 large tools analogue to knife and saw on the other side.
* The PE Knife counterpart will be a combination rescue cutter/guthook and Serrated edge blade, like on the Eickhorn RTI: http://www.eickhorn-solingen.de/epages/62631327.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62631327/Products/820106 (I hope you can access this from outside Germany without hassle)
* on the saw side: A large marlin spike, kinda like the Victorinox alox one. Nearly the same as they did on the MUT EOT with the C4 Punch. I would rate this much more useful than the little awl w Sewing eye.
- I am not sure how, but make the handle tools usable with the handles folded together. Maybe let them rotate 45°more, so that the hammer will lock them when closed? I hope this 'drawing' helps:

            _________/c ___
_______/can opener//    ]
_handle__________//     ]
_other_handle__Hammer_]



What are your thoughts on my rambling?

Thanks for reading so far! 

[Etherealicer]

@lowtech: get well soon.  *cough medicine*

Its pretty much my thoughts. I always find bit-holders for the outdoors weird (the same goes for a can opener).

Another concern of mine is the plastic holding the firestarter rod. I mean every spark hitting the plastic will damage it. But I also have to admit, I'm starting to like the idea of the tool. There are flaws and it would need modding, but I can see potential. Also I think its looking quite good.

[TheDude]

I agree with you to the most part RT. However I would be happy to keep the external hex driver/hole and ditch the internal bit driver & maybe the awl and replace with OG Wave flathead and fixed phillips.  But ya know some people love the awl over the can opener. And although there are too many can openers on MT's these days I think it would be of use when camping. Now if we could come up with a awl/can opener combo tool? That would be something! Oh scissors would be sweet but I guess they wouldn't be able to sell the CS then.

[AimlessWanderer]

Is it 100% made in the USA?

Is any Leatherman these days?

@RT ... personally I wouldn't make it fatter and would find the serrated blade and gut hook superfluous. Just one example of how we all have different perceptions, and therefore how the manufacturers can't please everyone. No matter what they produce, there'll always be people complaining it's got X instead of Y, wrons size/wrong shape etc ....

From a purely commercial perspective, I do think Leatherman have approached this product well. It's not my ideal tool, but I'd imagine it will sell very well indeed and will catch the imagination of a lot of people. It could be argued that the bit driver might help effect a repair of a vehicle or equipment which prevents the "survival situation" from taking place at all. Prevention is better than cure, and not everyone enjoys the outdoors purely on foot.

[rescue4500]

As far as the tools goes I am pleased.. In an actually survival situation this tool would be very handy.. The saw knife and pliers are a no brainer obviously.. as far as the awl ive used the one on my rebar a few times as a stricker for flint it works very well.. I see the can opener as more of a camper tool but once again ive used it many times before while hiking for different tasks.. and I like the bit driver so you can have two separate screwdrivers.. plus if you have the extension and leatherman bit kit you've just added another 20 or so tools to it.. As far as the hammer goes it would be great for tent stakes or even busting acorns to eat if you were surviving... all in all I like this tool and can not wait to purchase one... this is just my opinion! 

[Aloha]

I am on the fence with this tool.  I like the "idea" however I need to think about what revisions would improve this tool for me.  Carabiner is fine especially for quick attachment to packs and such.  I have no problem with the whistle or the fire striker and really dig the hammer aspect. 

[Lichtbote]

Strange - the more i read the complains in this thread ........ the more this tool grows on me.  That i like the overall look surely helps.

And funnily around 90% of the complaining people seem to use tools i would consider mostly useless or bad.  That shows how different peoples pov can be, depending on their own needs and uses.

Of course i base the worth of a tool on my needs, and there is no need for any small tools, esspecially not for those that are small and cramped with a lot of tiny fuzzy tools. I prefer less but bigger tools over a lot but tiny ..... every day.

Without being at the point i´m now, with my Surge for mechanical tasks and the OHT for light outdoor tasks ...... so without having those and being a MT-beginner, i would buy it (not for 120, but you get what i mean).
With some slighly modding to ones personal preferencies i can imagine it as a good allrounder. Maybe not for the overeducated MT-crowd here  , but for the general consumer out there.

But granted - the 120 bucks pricetag is hard to swallow - i don´t want to now what price they will ask for it here.

[GPDB]

From what i can see, the missing portion of the hammer head is for letting the bit holder extend with the tool closed.

[lowtech]

@lowtech: get well soon.  *cough medicine*

This one made me  although my son had a fever for the last 3 days. I´ll extend your wishes his way.
I am indifferent about the signal and will wait until we see pics and read hands on reviews here.

[Etherealicer]

@RT: get well soon.  *cough medicine*

This one made me  although my son had a fever for the last 3 days. I´ll extend your wishes his way.
I am indifferent about the signal and will wait until we see pics and read hands on reviews here.

[tosh]

I don't think LM have received quite the reaction they hoped for - lol
But, I do think that a vast majority here will probably buy this. LM, are I'm sure aware that this model isn't without flaws. But releasing now gives us all a taster and at the same time allows LM to recoup some of their investment and take the Signal to the next level (but not for at least 2-3yrs  ), where once again we'll all mump and moan....but still buy it. 

I'm beginning to think I'm a mug!! I'm going to buy something that I don't really want, don't really like and will never use, but don't want to be left out either.

Clever Leatherman....  

[comis]

Despite all the complains, I think this is still a good attempt, at least it looks better suited for outdoor survival than the Les Stroud survival tool or BG stuff.


Only few more wishes, please consider and answer:

1) Plain edge.  Serrated edge may take longer time to sharpen, also for advertising sake, look at all these 'survival personalities' on TV, I don't ever remember seeing one use a serrated blade)

2) Please consider anodized the whole thing in bright orange or even just plain silver, yellow/black color scheme is sincerely awesome, but who wants to look for a black survival tool in the dark?

3) Can we lose the carabiner since it's extra weight and it won't take much force as a 'hammer' anyway?  What's the chance to put in a led light there instead?

4) Please do be so kind to look into what kind of coarseness is best for outdoor sharpening.  Too fine may take longer, but too coarse is impossible to hone.

5) Much lighter weight and shorter dimension (probably too late now...but maybe Christmas or 2016?)


Leatherman, thank you for making this tool.  I see the cutouts to lighten the weight, removable ferro rod/sharpener, while keeping at least 1 tool adapter to cover the MT ground...it is a great effort, and I look forward to this tool!

[Kampfer]

We still have no info on its weight.

[AimlessWanderer]

Despite all the complains, I think this is still a good attempt, at least it looks better suited for outdoor survival than the Les Stroud survival tool or BG stuff.


Only few more wishes, please consider and answer:

1) Plain edge.  Serrated edge may take longer time to sharpen, also for advertising sake, look at all these 'survival personalities' on TV, I don't ever remember seeing one use a serrated blade)

2) Please consider anodized the whole thing in bright orange or even just plain silver, yellow/black color scheme is sincerely awesome, but who wants to look for a black survival tool in the dark?

3) Can we lose the carabiner since it's extra weight and it won't take much force as a 'hammer' anyway?  What's the chance to put in a led light there instead?

4) Please do be so kind to look into what kind of coarseness is best for outdoor sharpening.  Too fine may take longer, but too coarse is impossible to hone.

5) Much lighter weight and shorter dimension (probably too late now...but maybe Christmas or 2016?)


Leatherman, thank you for making this tool.  I see the cutouts to lighten the weight, removable ferro rod/sharpener, while keeping at least 1 tool adapter to cover the MT ground...it is a great effort, and I look forward to this tool!

Working through your comments, comis ...

I'd agree this is massiveley better than the Les Stroud/Camillus offering ... but then so is a damp tissue, although I'm not sure I agree on the BG Strata  ... Suspension, Yes - Strata kit, possibly not (personal opinion)

Plain edged knife. I would like to think that anyone who has enough knowledge skills and forethough to take this (or any multitool) out into the big outdoors for just in case, has also got a fixed blade knife. If they've not got an outdoors insight, what do they expect this tool to achieve for them? Batonning and other heavy tasks aren't really ideal for folders anyway, so a fixed bladed knife (at the least) should be at the top of eveyone's packing list. As such having this multitool with (partial) serrations comfortably handles all the fibrous tasks which plain edge knives aren't as good as

Tool visibility. I can't argue with that at all. I also think the whistle should have a lanyard attachment point

Hammer. They've done this because people have been harping on about wanting a MUT style hammer on a Wave sized tool ever since the MUT first appeared. Now they give us one, we complain that it makes the drivers and other tools awkward  A case of "Be careful what you wish for" 

Sharpener coarseness. Hmmm ... again, it depends what you are cutting. This blade steel is less likely to chip (if handled correctly) than other more brittle steels, which means you can get away with a finer sharpening grit. However, if we consider this as the "partner" to a plain edged fixed blade, the toothy bite a coarser sharpener will give could be very useful

Weight/Size. Too late, plus you risk shortening the blade and saw below a sensible length. I wish they'd reduce the handle splay (on everything they make), but I think they made the right choice for the knife and saw.

[babola]

Carabiner is fine especially for quick attachment to packs and such.  I have no problem with the whistle or the fire striker and really dig the hammer aspect.

Same thoughts here, Aloha.    Although I'd like to see that sharpener having a more rigid type attachment to the frame, looking at one of those videos it appears it only requires a slight push to release.

But, I do think that a vast majority here will probably buy this.

Agree. I most likely will, too. I did the same with the Skeletool, didn't know what to think of it until I bought one - and ended up loving it 
If nothing then I'll get the Signal for the fiddle and curiosity factor and if it doesn't do it for me it will end up on our local auction site. LM tools sell well in NZ and Australia (especially in Australia, which is according to LM their largest export market).

Strange - the more i read the complains in this thread ........ the more this tool grows on me.  That i like the overall look surely helps.

Again, agree. We need to accept this tool not as a MacGyver 'one-tool-for-all' type of tool like Wave, for example. This tool is built on the idea less-is-more, as a dedicated outdoor/survival tool, not a 'toolbox in your pack', so to speak. It's tool load is minimal and focused on the tasks and situations you may find yourself in while out and about. And as such, it meets the intended designation IMO, at least on paper so far. I will again draw a parallel with the Skeletool, a dedicated simple, lightweight EDC tool.
Time will show though, how usable the fire striker, sharpener and the poxy little plastic whistle are in the real 'survival' situation.

In an actually survival situation this tool would be very handy.. The saw knife and pliers are a no brainer obviously.. as far as the awl ive used the one on my rebar a few times as a stricker for flint it works very well.. I see the can opener as more of a camper tool but once again ive used it many times before while hiking for different tasks.. and I like the bit driver so you can have two separate screwdrivers.. plus if you have the extension and leatherman bit kit you've just added another 20 or so tools to it.. As far as the hammer goes it would be great for tent stakes or even busting acorns to eat if you were surviving... all in all I like this tool and can not wait to purchase one... this is just my opinion! 

Well said. I also don't see much use in that crippled awl, but as a striker for the ferrorod I'd rather use it than the saw Leatherman uses in their video. I intend to mod the awl into something usable anyway, so time will tell. Can opener - many have expressed their disgust again but I want it on my tool out there - granted, use of canned food these days when pretty much all food you'd take with you outdoors is foil packed is debatable but I still want it and the wire stripper at the base can be used for cutting other things if needed.

Yes, I do want the bit extender. As Al already mentioned - not all outdoor trips are on foot and many people use mechanical devices out there which come with screws. A single phillips and/or flat tip is pretty much all you need, and LM has included it. Good on them.
The 1/4 hex bit hole in the hammer is for people who carry standard 1/4 bits and don't own LM 2.5D bit set.

 

[rdub934]

Wow, a lot of negative reaction to this thing and no one has even touched the tool yet.

I suppose you all are more excited for the Tread and Rev, right, and can't spare anymore praise for the Signal?

[babola]

Wow, a lot of negative reaction to this thing...

Not at all. At least not all of us.

I for one take it for what it is, and I'm quite fond of it actually. 

[Kampfer]

I am seeing Signal as downsized MUT (remove all the firearm related stuff and one size smaller pliers head), or a beefed up Skeletool (longer blade, add saw, hammer and awl), as long as it weight less than Wave, I would like it.

[rdub934]

Wow, a lot of negative reaction to this thing...

Not at all. At least not all of us.

I for one take it for what it is, and I'm quite fond of it actually. 

Agree. I think it looks amaze-balls. Just surprised to see so many people picking it apart already. Seems like a great minimalistic tool, in the same vain as the Skeletool and MUT, with a slant towards the outdoor enthusiast. People complaining about only one handle having fold out tools - no room, the hammer is on the other side. People complaining about a combo blade - combo blades serve MULTIple purposes = more utility. People complaining about it only having two outside access tools - adding outside tools to the other side will make the thing FATTER and heavier meaning less friendly for backpackers. People don't like the whistle being on the fero-rod - it's an EMERGENCY whistle (meaning life or limb) and even state this in the video; it's not a toy. People don't like the bit driver - the bit driver eliminates the need for a dedicated philips, a dedicated medium flat, a dedicated small flat, etc.... They can't please everyone, so they are trying to please as many as they can.

GIVE IT A CHANCE PEOPLE, lol

[babola]

I am seeing Signal as downsized MUT (remove all the firearm related stuff and one size smaller pliers head), or a beefed up Skeletool (longer blade, add saw, hammer and awl), as long as it weight less than Wave, I would like it.

The only major downside for me is the price. It's way higher than the tool of this designation and complexity should be priced at, IMO. Wave for example should cost more than this tool, IMO. 

Even discounted pricing will hurt for quite a while from its release date. I bought a brand new Wave for $50 few weeks back, I don't see Signal falling to those or similar levels any time soon.

[eamo]

I like it, I think it has a lot of versatility, and while i don't see it replacing my wave i think i would use one. Not at the price they're saying, but I'm in no rush.

[JPS_]

if the price drops to be equal or below the wave I'll be getting it. But for now I'm off to modding my Wave, because the long awaited and asked for new version is still not coming for at least a year.

[Etherealicer]

[...]

Again, agree. We need to accept this tool not as a MacGyver 'one-tool-for-all' type of tool like Wave, for example. This tool is built on the idea less-is-more, as a dedicated outdoor/survival tool, not a 'toolbox in your pack', so to speak.

[...]

Yes, I do want the bit extender. As Al already mentioned - not all outdoor trips are on foot and many people use mechanical devices out there which come with screws. A single phillips and/or flat tip is pretty much all you need, and LM has included it. Good on them.
The 1/4 hex bit hole in the hammer is for people who carry standard 1/4 bits and don't own LM 2.5D bit set.

I totally agree with the first part. However, I personally feel that the bit-extender exactly tries to achieve this and by that compromises its primary goal as a dedicated outdoor/survival tool.

[babola]

However, I personally feel that the bit-extender exactly tries to achieve this and by that compromises its primary goal as a dedicated outdoor/survival tool.

Hmm, I don't see it like that, sorry 

[aussieman]

I think this will be a big hit. (We should care about that, a healthy Leatherman company is good for us)

If the Wave was perfect for everyone, and the only tool sold by Leatherman, the world would be a lot duller.

You can't find the perfect multitool for every situation, and that is part of the fun. It is fun to think of how you would improve this or that, or how could I possibly mod this into that. Creative people are going to be amazing modding this Signal.

I love thinking about design, and I love how you simply cannot have it all, without costs or compromises.

Most days are Charge TTi days. Some days are Skeletool days. Some days are even Gerber Dime days.

Outdoors, I can imagine lot of fun with this Signal. Beefier blade, and Stop.... Hammertime.