Multitool.org Forum
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests. 3432

Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« on: February 02, 2015, 11:55:17 AM »
Take the test for what it is and do not complain about repeatability, sample size, accuracy of equipment etc.
(yes I am aware of these when performing experiments/studies and have been for decades)

Using my Opus BT-C3100 I decided to test the “capacity” of some AA batteries. I wanted to see which battery actually had the most juice in it.

I started with some cheap batteries from Lidl, Leroy Merlin (Raymax) and Carrefour, all new, recent, fresh. I always had the idea that the Carrefour ones were not that brilliant.

It is known that different batteries will perform differently at different discharge rates. What this means is that for various reasons (Chemistry, internal resistance…) some batteries will give you more output, at certain currents. So an e.g. 2000mAh battery may give you 1000mAh at 1A and 2500mAh at 200mA. Generally alkaline batteries are not really suited for higher drain applications.

Bearing the above in mind I decided to start with a higher drain, 500mA , (e.g. powerfull torch) to see what the capacity was for that, at what point would the battery stop supplying any current or go below a cut-off voltage for the charger (appears to be about 0.9V).

This higher drain was followed by a resting period of a day or so, followed by an additional discharge at 200mA to see what was left and get an indication of whether it would be worth keeping the battery or not, after it “drained” the 1st time.
Results based on 1 sample, so far.

1st I drained the Carrefour and the Raymax

500mA



Result



1354 for the Raymax and 1188 for the Careffour, so the Raymax gave about 150mAh more, and went to a lower voltage before stopping too.

Then we have the 2nd drain at 200mA.



I got an extra 468mAh from the Raymax and 510mAh from the Carrefour one.

At that point they both drop to under 1V but recover after a bit to just over 1V. They were both able to light a Cree zoom torch, satisfactory, at that state.

To check I gave them another 200mA discharge and got 188mAh from the Raymax and 288mAh from the Careffour. I then rested them and did the same, getting just over 110mAh from each, showing that they were practically drained, but that resting them was a way to get some more juice out. These 2 additional drains/discharges were only performed to experience what happens and I only intend to do two drains (500mA and 200mA) in the future.


I then checked the Lidl Aerocell brand battery.

At 500mA



1556mAh (the other two went through their 3rd, 200mA, drain)

Then at 200mA



617mAh (the other two went through their 4th, 200mA, drain)

In total, for the first two discharges:


Lidl Aerocell: 1556 + 616  = 2173mAh
Raymax       :  1354 + 468 = 1822mAh
Carrefour    :  1188 + 510 = 1698mAh


So, the LIDL ones had 351mAh more than the Raymax and 475mAh more than the Carrefour ones. (i.e. about 2 hours more runtime at 200mAh)

You should be able to squeeze out about 300mAh more, if you let them rest and discharge them gently.

Bear in mind, apart from what I said in the beginning, that the batteries you buy may not be the same as the ones tested as these companies change suppliers/manufacturers often.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,666 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 03:23:50 PM »
Reporting for duty. :tu:

:D

Bookmarked for later reading when I have more time. :salute:

Seems like a lot of good info here.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 04:09:16 PM »
Gareth?

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Sr. Member Posts: 391
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2015, 05:03:39 AM »
You know, about a year ago I did a similar experiment and published it in my ham radio club's newsletter.  I used my Nintendo Wii remotes to test practical run time of the three dominant battery types (Ni-MH, Alkaline, "Heavy Duty" Zinc Chloride) to see which was more economical to use in the long run.  Short answer, if you use less than two sets of Alkalines in a year in a device, use three sets of Zinc Chlorides.  If you use more than ten in a year, use rechargeables.  If you absolutely need maximum per cell charge and can't change/recharge them OR you need absolute minimum weight, go with Lithium, otherwise don't bother.

If anyone wants it, I'll be glad to post a link here.

My EDC:
Leatherman Skeletool   Led Lenser P3 AFS P
Leatherman Style CS    "Fauxton"
Sharpie Twin Tip           Bic Mini
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2015, 07:28:24 AM »
Post as you wish  :D


I have so far concentrated on just alkalines as these have been the dominant chemistry for a few years and are now available cheaply.

The main issue with practical, real life use is that it is difficult to test all batteries equally. I did have a feel that the Careffour batteries had less stored charge than the rest through regular use in various devices but I could not really prove it in a satisfactory manner. This is even more difficult with small differences, less than, lets say, 10%.

A battery that appears flat may still be usable if it rests for a few hours/minutes. However whereas you may allow one battery to rest (e.g. you go to bed so you do not need it at that time), you may throw away another one when you see it as flat, as you may want to continue using your device without stopping.

Also a lot will depend on the  draining current. Some devices like flashguns, high powered torches etc require a lot of quick, high current, recharges/flows and certain battery chemistries or brands cope better with that, without sagging. Other devices, like a clock, need a very low current and you may find that the battery is likely to leak and destroy the device, before it discharges totally.


Again,purchase will depend on price. The batteries tested are cheap but they are not the same price everywhere. Value for money, environmental concerns, availability, weight etc. are also taken into account when we buy batteries.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Full Member Posts: 140
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2015, 06:11:29 PM »
I've gotten into rechargeables mainly because I got sick and tired of those stupid alkalines leaking and making a mess, if not ruining stuff.   The only issue I've run into so far is certain devices (i.e. Maglite) don't like the slightly lower voltage of the Ni-MH's :rant:

"Remember, if the women don't find ya handsome, they should at least find ya handy." - Red Green

"The Second Ammendment is the only thing keeping them from taking the First." - Phil Valentine
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2015, 05:56:45 PM »
I decided to test a better known, top brand battery to have as a reference point.

I got some Energizer Ultra+   batteries.

The methodology was the same - 500mA discharge, rest, 200mA discharge.

For the 500mA I got 1436mAh ( I am also testing another Raymax at just 200mA, again for reference)



Then, after resting, I got 350mAh at 200mA.



The total was 1786mAh

Adding the table again:

Lidl Aerocell: 1556 + 616   = 2173mAh
Raymax       :  1354 + 468 = 1822mAh
Energizer     : 1436 + 350  = 1786mAh
Carrefour    :  1188 + 510  = 1698mAh

So they are a bit better than the Carrefour ones (and better than the Raymax for the higher discharge)

BUT, the Energizer, at the shop, lowest available price, were 3.65 Euro for 6 or  0.61 euro each.

The Carrefour ones have been selling for years in packs of 16, for 3.40 Euro, or 21.25 Euro each.





so the Energiser are a bit better than the Carrefour, but 3 times as expensive

They are also worst than the, cheaper, Raymax and Lidl ones.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 05:59:16 PM by dks »

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 09:57:29 AM »
I finished the Raymax discharge at 200mA, just to see if there would be a noticeable difference in utilised capacity, compared to my standard method.

The battery showed 1785mAh at just 200mA.

With the combination of 500mA followed by 200mA AND a rest in the middle it showed 1822mAh.  These numbers are close enough to say that the two methods produce similar results, and the 1st one also shows the ability to cope with higher currents. I also managed to squeeze another 150mAh from the energizer, after a rest (like I was able to do with the others).

Here is the standard methodology table again:

Lidl Aerocell:  1556 + 616  = 2173mAh
Raymax      :  1354 + 468  = 1822mAh
Energizer    :  1436 + 350  = 1786mAh
Carrefour    :  1188 + 510  = 1698mAh


Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,666 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 01:54:13 PM »
BTW, I know it's a bit of topic but it's what we do best here, right? >:D

I'm considering another charger and was looking into the Nitecore D4. I can get the D4 for $26 but it seems they too aren't that great with AAAs as its predecessor I4. I see the Opus BT-C3100 you're using here is on sale currently for $36. If you have some insight, how's it with smaller cells and what other advantages over the D4 does it offer for the 30% more $$$?
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 02:20:00 PM »
lets just say that since getting the C-3100 I have used the I4 only once... The C-3100 is faster and more fun.

I am not too familiar with the d4 (basically what you can read on BLF) but the I4 did not charge 4 channels continuously but split the charge, very quickly, between them (in twos). Thus the lower charge rate was not a real low current but a high current for 1/2 the time, which meant that the cells were getting a higher than shown current. The C-3100 gives real individual channel charge, giving the number shown all the time. It also can supply a higher and a lower current  than the I4, as well as other functions.
Summarising the C-3100 can be a more gentle charger, but I have not had any issues with the I4 (apart from some cells not liking it).

You can get true 200mA charge with the C-3100, which you can not get with the I4.

 :pok: You may have not noticed  :D   :D but there is a link to some more information at the end of my post.  Someone made the links look nice a while back   :whistle: 

There has not been an upgrade for the C-3100 for some months so I assume that it is as good as it could have been made.  Or you can wait for the newer model.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,666 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2015, 03:19:00 PM »
;)

Thanks for the summary. I'll have to decide quickly as the sale ends in 2 days.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 03:23:35 PM »
There is always a sale on.... I do not think they will get more expensive anymore

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 10:25:31 AM »
Working, for you, during the holidays, I tested the HW alkalines, sold here by Jumbo (toy store)

at 500 mA I got 1585 mAh, and, I got another 576mAh at 200mA  - a total of 2161mAh with my testing system.

Very good performance, for a cheap battery available at a toy store!

Table:

Lidl Aerocell:  1556 + 616  = 2173mAh
HW Jumbo  :  1585 + 576  = 2161mAh
Raymax      :  1354 + 468  = 1822mAh
Energizer    :  1436 + 350  = 1786mAh
Carrefour    :  1188 + 510  = 1698mAh

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Newbie Posts: 36
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 01:38:59 PM »
Great thread. I love my Nitecore charger and my Maha chargers for AA cells, but the Opus looks great.

I see there are BT-C3100, BT-C3100 V2 and BT-C3400 versions out there and available. I did some searching on what the differences might be and came upon this threadhttp://budgetlightforum.com/node/34663

Bottom line is there is a Version 2.1 of the 3100 with some improvements and the 3400 is simply that version relabeled for an OEM or exclusive retail deal...so same product.

The manual for the charger is available here it seems http://imageshack.com/f/547/y8v.pdf
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 01:59:40 PM »
The latest version is the 2.2, http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,60063.0.html

I think Enki-ck has one of the 2.2 models.

The differences between them are minor and will not be noticed by most users.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Newbie Posts: 36
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 02:03:13 PM »
Thanks for that. I'd prefer to find a US source as I'm somewhat impatient and waiting for post from China bums me out. I also worry about a DOA or other issue and the postal cost exceeding the value of what you buy pretty quickly.

If you have any thoughts on a US source or you come across one, drop a post here. Thanks! Happy discharging, conditioning and charging.
Newbie Posts: 36
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 02:13:19 PM »
Looks like these are the sources via Amazon:
Untitled-1 by Philip Scott, on Flickr
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 02:22:15 PM »
SPAMCORP is OK, but they will take a few (1 to 4) weeks, unless you pay extra.
Here are some views on these sites from me and others: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,49491.0.html

If you can buy it from amazon for not much less then you will get your product faster, with no tax to pay.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Newbie Posts: 36
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 02:25:27 PM »
Thanks for that...I'll read that post with interest as soon as I can...(but for now it's time to get to work and sell some cyber security gear for my day job).
I use Amazon a lot....Prime Membership seems a real bargain. They just made a deal with the USPS where they deliver Sundays when you order a Prime item on a Friday!

One thing though, they do now charge state sales tax in the USA. At least coming in to PA they do; and I suspect it's true in all 50. Still, when I can find an item on Prime and get two day shipping 7 days a week for free, 6% doesn't seem bad.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 02:26:40 PM by Pwscott »
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,666 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 02:27:19 PM »
The latest version is the 2.2, http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,60063.0.html

I think Enki-ck has one of the 2.2 models.

The differences between them are minor and will not be noticed by most users.

That I do, and it's been working fine for now. :cheers:
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,051 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Alkaline Battery Discharge Capacity Tests.
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2015, 09:10:05 PM »

IKEA, widely available cheap batteries around Europe

500mA discharge 1446mAh, 200mA 2nd one, 197, a total of 1643mAh, really bad total..
Not bad for high drain applications.

Table:

Lidl Aerocell:  1556 + 616  = 2173mAh
HW Jumbo  :  1585 + 576  = 2161mAh
Raymax      :  1354 + 468  = 1822mAh
Energizer    :  1436 + 350  = 1786mAh
Carrefour    :  1188 + 510  = 1698mAh
IKEA          :  1446 +  197 = 1643mAh

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]

 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
July Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Jul 31
Total Receipts: $98.19
PayPal Fees: $6.07
Net Balance: $92.12
Below Goal: $207.88
Site Currency: USD
31% 
July Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal
SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2020, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.039 seconds with 32 queries.
© 2018 Defender Web & Tool