Kosmo's Projects

[kosmo]

Looks like I will need two washer shims.  If anyone knows a source for buying washer shims this size, let me know.  I have one washer from the Cadet tear down, but I may save it with the (nickel-silver liner) for another future Cadet build.  This one, I'm going to use aluminum liners from my existing tear downs.  I could probably make a couple of washers from 0.5 mm aluminum liners.  I may make the from brass otherwise.

The washer shims dimensions:

ID = 0.98" (2.5 mm)
OD = 0.282" (~7 mm)
Thickness = 0.019" (0.5 mm)

From estimations both the small pen blade and the electrical blade will be accessible without difficulties.  One of the large blades (probably the serrated blade) will be accessible after opening the other main blade, but that's OK.

Opener layer
Electrician's Blade / Main Blade
Pen Blade / Serrated Blade

[magentus]

Looks interesting Kosmo - nice tool choice.

[Syph007]

If you are intending to assemble in the order as you have laid out, keep in mind the opener layer being on the backscale would render the can opener unable to opener cans. 

[kosmo]

If you are intending to assemble in the order as you have laid out, keep in mind the opener layer being on the backscale would render the can opener unable to opener cans. 

I realized it after I posted the picture.  I think if I swap the position of the scales in the photo, it's correct.

[kosmo]

I only have one spare phillips screw driver right now.  I'm thinking one of the following compact variations.

a) Grand Prix Compact
b) Fisherman Compact
c) Fieldmaster Compact

[hiraethus]

Grand Prix, definitely.  If you were sticking with the corkscrew, olive fork fishscaler for the ultimate gourmand's knife.

[kosmo]

Grand Prix, definitely.  If you were sticking with the corkscrew, olive fork fishscaler for the ultimate gourmand's knife.

The Grand Prix is what I'm thinking too.

[pfrsantos]

Grand Prix, definitely.  If you were sticking with the corkscrew, olive fork fishscaler for the ultimate gourmand's knife.

The Grand Prix is what I'm thinking too.

In terms of complementing tools, that's the best option.

 

[kosmo]

Testing the assembly (with no spring tension) and seeing what I can do to make fixtures to help in assembly.  Also wanting to see if my shim washers are going to work and look at the layout of the blades closed.  It looks like there is just room enough to get my fingernail in to open the second main blade in the back.  I don't think a nail file or a small pen blade would be directly accessible between the two large blades.  But since the Electrician's blade is wider it is accessible.

[kosmo]

After all the experimenting to attempting to pre-form rivets (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,59485.0.html) I decided to use the leather protector method.  Using relatively thin layer of leather with round holes punched in it to peen through.  I turned the knife over many times to try to get equal peening on both sides of the rods for riveting. I think with a little practice, I'll get better at this.

[SAK Guy]

Looks great!! You did a good job!!!!

[kosmo]

 

[Syph007]

Ah you got your lotz-a-bladez model finished.   

I can peen the cellidors together fine, but the alox are so delicate I just dont have the patience for it. 

[kosmo]

Ah you got your lotz-a-bladez model finished.   

I can peen the cellidors together fine, but the alox are so delicate I just dont have the patience for it.

I was originally thinking of a three layer, all blades, but I'm pretty happy with this.  I'm missing the blunt point, youth blade (aka butter blade) from the "My First Victorinox."  But kept the opener layer instead. The three layer Alox Cadet is a nice size.

It took a lot of time.  One thing I Iearned is that the material underneath the peening makes a difference.  I used leather between the back of the knife and the mini anvil I am using.  The leather would often prevent contact of the back of the rod to the hard surface of the anvil with varying results.  The rivets appear to be slightly larger on the front of the knife than on the rear.

If I decide to try pivot screws in the future, this knife will be a candidate.

[kosmo]

Thickness comparison.  The 3 layer Alox Cadet is only slightly thicker than a 1 layer Cellidor (Bantam) and noticeably thinner than a 2 layer Cellidor (Recruit).  It is also about the same as a 2 layer Pioneer (or Soldier).

[Huntsman]

I was originally thinking of a three layer, all blades, but I'm pretty happy with this.  I'm missing the blunt point, youth blade (aka butter blade) from the "My First Victorinox."  But kept the opener layer instead. The three layer Alox Cadet is a nice size.

Hey Kosmo - Great post - Thanks

I love these 'real-time' posts, where members keep us informed as the job progresses (looking at you too Syph)
Very brave too  - as it could all go horribly wrong!!

But I gotta ask the obvious question - 'Why on earth would you want four blades on a SAK ?' ?? 
Is there a use for it - or is it just a mod project?

[kosmo]

I was pretty sure this was going to work out.  I just wasn't sure now nice or ugly a job of peening I was going to do.

I didn't want to spend the money of tearing down yet another Cadet Alox for parts (I needed a second liner and washer), so I decided to go with aluminum liners from Cellidor tear downs and made my own washers from brass (kind of a pain).  It would have been a quicker and easier to buy a punch and die set.  But I didn't want to spend another $30 or $40 dollars on the tools yet, unless I am going to do more in the future.  I've got the original Cadet Alox liner and washer saved.  If I decide to build another 3 layer I will have enough for it now.  Not sure how many three layers I will build in the future.  Maybe one with scissors, when I can find the scissors.  Maybe one with a saw blade.

Different blades for different purposes and personal preference.  I tend to use smaller blades and wanted to use the Electrician's blade out of a knife I've used since the 90's.  I thought about including the nail file instead of the small pen blade, but I often want to use a small pen blade for certain purposes.  I like the serrated blade more for food prep, cutting bread or pealing oranges for example.  I may build a multi-blade knife in the future with a saw blade, but I don't have much use for saw blade in reality.  I also like the handling of a three layer Cadet more than a two layer Cadet.

[Syph007]

Since you're experimenting with peening more than I did, here are some thing for you to try.

Use a carriage bolt as the backing.  Put it in a bench vice as a test. 



This way each side of the rivet is getting hit by a domed surface.  When I was playing I found it gave pretty nice results with lots of light hits.

If you find you'd like to hit the heads more to form them better but don't want the sak any tighter, put a shim stock or razor blade in during assembly. Then peen to your hearts content and pull the shim when done.  Its best to cut rectangle with a V notch and push it in so the shim surrounds the pin as much as possible.  Also coat it with oil.

 

[kosmo]

Since you're experimenting with peening more than I did, here are some thing for you to try.

Use a carriage bolt as the backing.  Put it in a bench vice as a test. 

(Image removed from quote.)

This way each side of the rivet is getting hit by a domed surface.  When I was playing I found it gave pretty nice results with lots of light hits.

If you find you'd like to hit the heads more to form them better but don't want the sak any tighter, put a shim stock or razor blade in during assembly. Then peen to your hearts content and pull the shim when done.  Its best to cut rectangle with a V notch and push it in so the shim surrounds the pin as much as possible.  Also coat it with oil.

 

I am having an issue with the blades not being tight.  I think it has to do with the middle pin being TOO tight.  The back springs are slightly thinner than the blade and tool tangs.  Too tight on the middle and it is causing a slight bow in the scales causing only a small surface contact at the end points.  I may have to revisit this. 

This morning, I've already replaced the middle pin by pushing it out with a new pin.  This will at least remove pressure on the middle for now. I may employ your shim idea here.  I'm thinking of working on the two outer pins first to get better tightness on the blade tangs.

[Syph007]

Since you're experimenting with peening more than I did, here are some thing for you to try.

Use a carriage bolt as the backing.  Put it in a bench vice as a test. 

(Image removed from quote.)

This way each side of the rivet is getting hit by a domed surface.  When I was playing I found it gave pretty nice results with lots of light hits.

If you find you'd like to hit the heads more to form them better but don't want the sak any tighter, put a shim stock or razor blade in during assembly. Then peen to your hearts content and pull the shim when done.  Its best to cut rectangle with a V notch and push it in so the shim surrounds the pin as much as possible.  Also coat it with oil.

 

I am having an issue with the blades not being tight.  I think it has to do with the middle pin being TOO tight.  The back springs are slightly thinner than the blade and tool tangs.  Too tight on the middle and it is causing a slight bow in the scales causing only a small surface contact at the end points.  I may have to revisit this. 

This morning, I've already replaced the middle pin by pushing it out with a new pin.  This will at least remove pressure on the middle for now. I may employ your shim idea here.  I'm thinking of working on the two outer pins first to get better tightness on the blade tangs.

I have the same issues when I assemble cellidor SAKs, if either of the inner pins are too tight it messes things up.  I found it best to peen the end ones first and leave the inner ones until Im happy with the fit and action, then finish the inner pins.

[kosmo]

Since you're experimenting with peening more than I did, here are some thing for you to try.

Use a carriage bolt as the backing.  Put it in a bench vice as a test. 

(Image removed from quote.)

This way each side of the rivet is getting hit by a domed surface.  When I was playing I found it gave pretty nice results with lots of light hits.

If you find you'd like to hit the heads more to form them better but don't want the sak any tighter, put a shim stock or razor blade in during assembly. Then peen to your hearts content and pull the shim when done.  Its best to cut rectangle with a V notch and push it in so the shim surrounds the pin as much as possible.  Also coat it with oil.

 

I am having an issue with the blades not being tight.  I think it has to do with the middle pin being TOO tight.  The back springs are slightly thinner than the blade and tool tangs.  Too tight on the middle and it is causing a slight bow in the scales causing only a small surface contact at the end points.  I may have to revisit this. 

This morning, I've already replaced the middle pin by pushing it out with a new pin.  This will at least remove pressure on the middle for now. I may employ your shim idea here.  I'm thinking of working on the two outer pins first to get better tightness on the blade tangs.

I have the same issues when I assemble cellidor SAKs, if either of the inner pins are too tight it messes things up.  I found it best to peen the end ones first and leave the inner ones until Im happy with the fit and action, then finish the inner pins.

I think that is what I'll try next.  I'll work on the outer pins and then use my calipers to keep measuring the thickness of the scales in the middle, so not to over tighten.

[kosmo]

Since you're experimenting with peening more than I did, here are some thing for you to try.

Use a carriage bolt as the backing.  Put it in a bench vice as a test. 

(Image removed from quote.)

This way each side of the rivet is getting hit by a domed surface.  When I was playing I found it gave pretty nice results with lots of light hits.

If you find you'd like to hit the heads more to form them better but don't want the sak any tighter, put a shim stock or razor blade in during assembly. Then peen to your hearts content and pull the shim when done.  Its best to cut rectangle with a V notch and push it in so the shim surrounds the pin as much as possible.  Also coat it with oil.

 

I got this watchmaker's (peening) hammer from Harbor Freight (a source of cheap tools here in the US).  I found nicer polished ones on-line, but at $4.99 it was about 1/4th the cost of ordering something similar on-line with shipping.

I estimated the head weighs about 2 1/4 oz while the entire hammer weighs ~3 oz.  (Not sure how these measurements compare to others, head vs entire hammer?)   It comes with two rounded steel tips.  I'm going to see if I can get a bolt (probably metric) to mount the second round tip on a platform below the knife being worked on and hammer from the top.

http://www.harborfreight.com/watchmakers-hammer-with-6-heads-99895.html

[Syph007]

I buy alot of my supplies from Jeweler supply places so I pick up msc things there when I order.

The hammer I use most is a 2 oz basic one from Gesswein.  The $4 one. 

http://www.gesswein.com/c-142-jewelers-hammers.aspx

They've got much fancier ones though but the basic one does the job for me.

[kosmo]

I've included an image below to try to illustrate my question.  The photo is not quite accurate, because I mirrored the image of the Electrician's blade to switch sides in the photo.

I've been thinking about what obstacles would prevent having two small blades on one layer opposite each other (on an 84mm Alox)?  The key ring spacers would be needed on both ends to take up space because of the thickness of the back spring.  But from what I've looked at they should fit without modification.  What other obstacles might there be in attempting to make a layer like this?

[Syph007]

Just the position of the nail nicks really.  If its an outer layer youd want both nicks facing out, but thats not possible.  If its an inner layer, maybe it can fit in such a way both nicks are accessible?

[kosmo]

Just the position of the nail nicks really.  If its an outer layer youd want both nicks facing out, but thats not possible.  If its an inner layer, maybe it can fit in such a way both nicks are accessible?

That should be OK because the Electrician's blade is wider and nail nick will be up higher.  It would be toward the inside and above the can opener.

[kosmo]

I'm roughing out an idea to create a peening fixture.  Using a second rounded tip underneath to peen against.  If it looks like it will work, I'll probably see if I can cut a channel in some HDPE to minimize movement of a the knife while peening to try to minimize hammering outside the effective diameter of the brass rod being peened.  I should also be able to adjust the height of the lower rounded tip so it won't come into contact with the Alox scales.

I still need to pick up some metric parts (bolt, washers and nuts) that I assume I will need to attach to the rounded tip.  These pictures give you a rough idea of what I'm trying to do.

[captain spaulding]

Very cool and it looks like you have caught the modding bug!

[kosmo]

 
I enjoy doing this kind of stuff, although I kind of limited not having access to a machine shop.

The peening is kind of an art, although I thought maybe I can eliminate some problems, mostly to cosmetic mistakes that are easy to make.

[kosmo]

Peening fixture with some controlled variability.

From my previous experience and that explained by Syph007 it would probably be better to work on the two outer rods first and tighten the knife blades and then finish the knife working on the inner pin, not making it too tight.  With that in mind I made this fixture that uses the middle pin as a registration point to help minimize hitting the alox scales during peening.

I made this fixture using a liner as a gauge to drill the holes.  The peening tip underneath can be raised and lowered using shims.  It is also a little off center by ~1/16" or ~1.5mm so it will allow the peening tip to come in contact with different parts of the rod depending on how it is rotated.  I use leather on top to help protect the upper surface (bottom photo).