Why aren't SOG MTs more popular here?

[Smaug]

They make really sweet knives, so I thought maybe there's be a lot of their knife fans who made the cross over into MT land.

All reviewers say their operation is really smooth. There are some design crits, but the same holds true for Leatherman, which are 8.9X more popular at the moment. Some of their design crits are because they went out on a limb and did something different, rather than just going with the flow.

Examples: (thinking specifically of the PowerLock S60 here)

• Doors over tools to make the pliers more comfortable. Some don't like the doors, but they are easily removeable and replaceable, so what's the problem?
• One-handed, balisong-style opening! That looks really fun, and without the Gerber-style palm-pinching
• Compound leverage! No one else has this. I don't know about y'all, but one of the main reasons I don't use the large pliers/gripper of my plier-based MTs more is that from experience, I find that I tend to round off nuts and bolts from slipping on them with not a tight enough grip. Problem solved, with compound leverage.
• Best factory sharpening job.
• 1/4" socket driver. The only thing that comes close is Leatherman's extension with 1/4 hex driver. This could actually be a useful cycling tool now.
• US-made! (source link)
  
• Half-priced compared to Victorinox and Leatherman!
• Lifetime warranty

So obviously, I'm missing something. Tell me what it is, please.

[Corwyn]

Well... I can tell you that both PowerDuo nor the Crosscut are very good quality, nor are they made in the US (both are made in China).

[Corwyn]

I checked their website and apart these two that are marked China, the rest are marked "Assembled in USA" - and we all know what this means 

Not that China-made is necessarily a bad thing... I'll look up some QC issue threads and link here.

Here's some reviews of the two models I am familiar with:

PowerDuo:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,55751.0.html
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51785.0.html

Crosscut:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,37438.0.html
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,46362.0.html
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,27053.0.html

And yes. I do think their knives are great.

[sawman]

I agree, they got it wrong on the Cross Cut but even LM has shotty tools in their line-up. If you're after a quality set of multi-pliers where you can change out the tools to your desired configuration, then the PowerLock is made for you. There's nothing smoother than opening up those slick gears and watch them glide open like a butterfly knife.

I think SOG's problem is lack of exposure (not sold in enough stores) and lack of advertisement. It's a superior tool, IMO

[Toolslinger]

Just my thoughts based on having owned a couple of SOGs, a few Gerbers, handful of Victorinoxs and a metric ton of Leathermans.

• Doors over tools to make the pliers more comfortable. Some don't like the doors, but they are easily removeable and replaceable, so what's the problem? They got in my way and I never used them
  
• One-handed, balisong-style opening! That looks really fun, and without the Gerber-style palm-pinching Never pinched myself on any of my tools and some of my well used LM's can open like a bali.
  
• Compound leverage! No one else has this. I don't know about y'all, but one of the main reasons I don't use the large pliers/gripper of my plier-based MTs more is that from experience, I find that I tend to round off nuts and bolts from slipping on them with not a tight enough grip. Problem solved, with compound leverage. No need for the leverage. Wouldn't mind if it had better cutters to go with it ie carbide or other replaceable. I wouldn't want to use all that leverage to smurf up my cutters on something hard
  
• Best factory sharpening job. I would rank SOGs in third place with Gerber for factory sharp based on the ones I owned. The Vic's and Leathermans were better
  
• 1/4" socket driver. The only thing that comes close is Leatherman's extension with 1/4 hex driver. This could actually be a useful cycling tool now. Prefer LM's bits as it's easier to carry more options. Prefer Vic's wrench ratchet if I'm going to use 1/4" bits hard.
  
• US-made! (source link) The Gerber MP's are US made, LM's are US made and I have no problem with Swiss made.
  
• Half-priced compared to Victorinox and Leatherman! Around my parts SOGs are just as expensive as similar LM or Vic tools. Gerber is marginally cheaper. SOGs are also not carried in any local brick and mortar store but the other 3 brands are.
  
• Lifetime warranty Gerber, LM and Vic all have good warranties too. I've never had to use any of them but have seen many stories. The only knock would be that Vic is in Europe and that would be problematic for shipping and turnaround time.

Overall, I was not impressed by the SOGs I owned (Powerlock and PPP) and passed them off to a friend who thought they were neat. I just couldn't warm up to the tools and always felt like the inside tools were an afterthought. I've also never owned any of their knives. They just don't appeal to me.

My daily carry tools are all LM and occasionally I will carry a Vic. The Gerber's were bought to tinker with and will eventually be moved on.

Just my experience. Not saying they are bad tools, just not my cup of tea. To each their own.

[AimlessWanderer]

They make really sweet knives, so I thought maybe there's be a lot of their knife fans who made the cross over into MT land.

All reviewers say their operation is really smooth. There are some design crits, but the same holds true for Leatherman, which are 8.9X more popular at the moment. Some of their design crits are because they went out on a limb and did something different, rather than just going with the flow.

Examples: (thinking specifically of the PowerLock S60 here)

• Doors over tools to make the pliers more comfortable. Some don't like the doors, but they are easily removeable and replaceable, so what's the problem?
• One-handed, balisong-style opening! That looks really fun, and without the Gerber-style palm-pinching
• Compound leverage! No one else has this. I don't know about y'all, but one of the main reasons I don't use the large pliers/gripper of my plier-based MTs more is that from experience, I find that I tend to round off nuts and bolts from slipping on them with not a tight enough grip. Problem solved, with compound leverage.
• Best factory sharpening job.
• 1/4" socket driver. The only thing that comes close is Leatherman's extension with 1/4 hex driver. This could actually be a useful cycling tool now.
• US-made! (source link)
  
• Half-priced compared to Victorinox and Leatherman!
• Lifetime warranty

So obviously, I'm missing something. Tell me what it is, please.

The main problems for me are:

Compound leverage is only effective when gripping/cutting smaller workpieces. On larger workpieces, the grip is so splayed it can't be used effectively

All tools irrespective of size have the same internal components. Imagine putting PST components in ST300 and Surge.... they just wouldn't have the same following.

Quality. SOG's quality has been on a decline since they shipped out production to other companies overseas, so not only are they undersized components in many tools, they're not particularly well made ones either.

I think they've lost their footing in the multitool market due to these factors. Their overseas made knives suffered quality issues too. Their knife designs don't appeal much to me either. I think they're trying to get a foothold in the "affordable" section of the market, but personally I think they lose out on multitool design and quality to Gerber, and lose out on knife design and quality to CRKT.

[dks]

The quality issue is not a Chinese or "overseas" issue. The manufacturers did not cheat pure/poor US SOG and made inferior products. SOG is happy with the products, these are the products they want to sell us, and are happy to sell them to us. If they were made in the US then they would have been the same products, but even more expensive (The powerduo is NOT cheap) (Buck, Spyderco, apple, Casio can get good, low cost products from Chinese makers - why? because they ask for good products)

The fact that they have not improved/fixed the Powerduo yet shows just that. No recall, no improvement, no change = SOG is getting the quality it specified.

I really do not want to give my money to a company that considers me stupid and I could not care less where their products are made. LM, Gerber, Victorinox have not continuously produced a knowingly really bad product for years.

However, their new switchplier V2 is an improvement over V1, so hopefully they will make Powerduo v2, and pay for/demand/ask for better quality.

So, maybe I will again consider buying their product, one day.

[Corwyn]

 

[Mr. Whippy]

Turning a positive note:

I am extremely happy with my Switchplier 2.0.  It is an outstanding MT, and will be giving them as gifts this holiday season. 

[dks]

....to MTO members??   

[Aloha]

No fans of the PPP?  I actually like mine and the plier angle is pretty smart IMO.  The fit and finish, the buttery smoothness, and tool selection are all fine on my example. 

[styx]

SOG is just waiting for us to start putting out those Switchplier 2.0 reviews

[Kampfer]

Sometime things look good on paper, but just don't work well in real world.

I have a couple SOG tools, generally I think they are large tools with small implements, with a lot of empty spaces inside, overly complex (handle cover, assisted knife, gear) and lack of carrying options (sheath carry only). For those reasons I don't carry them. Build quality is good with the exception of PowerDuo.

Compound leverage is great for cutting tough wires, but it is not what I use often.
But SP2.0 is  totally different story. 

[Smaug]

I'm surprised to learn that SOG is generally considered a notch BELOW Gerber, rather than a notch ABOVE.

Seems like I should try a Gerber again soon. I have a technician colleague who swears by his. He carries it in a belt pouch every day.

He's worn out 2 belt pouches, and Gerber just keeps sending him new ones. He won't even consider an MT whose pliers cannot be opened one-handed.

Last time I used one, it was kind of rattly and was a palm-pincher. But that was at least 20 years ago.

[Kampfer]

I'm surprised to learn that SOG is generally considered a notch BELOW Gerber, rather than a notch ABOVE.

Seems like I should try a Gerber again soon. I have a technician colleague who swears by his. He carries it in a belt pouch every day.

He's worn out 2 belt pouches, and Gerber just keeps sending him new ones. He won't even consider an MT whose pliers cannot be opened one-handed.

I rate SOG over Gerber, they are better made. Most Gerbers look too weird for me and I don't need fast pliers either..

Last time I used one, it was kind of rattly and was a palm-pincher. But that was at least 20 years ago.

Still true.

[Demel]

They are still rattly but considering what the experience I've had with SOG I would rate gerber higher simply because I like more of their tools. SOG problem is not updating designs. Why is the powerduo so heavy? Why no pocket clip? Why can't the powerassist have all outside tools? The frame is large enough for them to accomplish it. One thing I like about sog is being able swap components and maintain warranty. So I want to like sog, but so far I'm only on the side of the new switchplier.

[AimlessWanderer]

The quality issue is not a Chinese or "overseas" issue. The manufacturers did not cheat pure/poor US SOG and made inferior products. SOG is happy with the products, these are the products they want to sell us, and are happy to sell them to us. If they were made in the US then they would have been the same products, but even more expensive (The powerduo is NOT cheap) (Buck, Spyderco, apple, Casio can get good, low cost products from Chinese makers - why? because they ask for good products)

The fact that they have not improved/fixed the Powerduo yet shows just that. No recall, no improvement, no change = SOG is getting the quality it specified.

I really do not want to give my money to a company that considers me stupid and I could not care less where their products are made. LM, Gerber, Victorinox have not continuously produced a knowingly really bad product for years.

However, their new switchplier V2 is an improvement over V1, so hopefully they will make Powerduo v2, and pay for/demand/ask for better quality.

So, maybe I will again consider buying their product, one day.

My comments were not intended to be "anti low labour cost" manufacturing, irrespective of location. I own, use and carry many tools and knives made remotely from the brand's location. I do agree that SOG maintains full responsibility for all products it sells irrespective of how well/badly it's made or how local/distant the manufacturing. Real complications do exist in maintaining the QC of remotely manufactured items though, and contractual safeguards and procedures need implementing for the protection of the manufacturer.

In SOG's case the drop in price and quality were simultaneous, as it appears to me the decided they wanted to make a "cheap" product rather than a "quality" product. They are still responsible though. It may well be that some of the other products I use and like are made in the same factory, or one across the street.

I don't like everything that Gerber makes, but overall I trust their designs and quality better than SOG. Mp400 and MP600 are superior to their SOG size equivalent powerlocks IMHO, but so are Diesel and Strata which are produced remotely

[dks]

My comments were general, regarding SOG/this thread and not a reply to anybody specific.
We know you love all people and all social and economic systems Al (aka flowerchild  )
    

[styx]

Well my 2 sunflower seeds are as following:
- a lot of SOG multitools can be opened with one hand in a balisong style flick, even though it  can be done with well worn in LMs as well
- the inside tools are what really hinder 'em, albeit the can opener is the exact same design as the Vic can opener
- when you look at many YT reviews they aren't put in fair hear to head comparisons with other tools
- SOG is also creating a lot of extreme audience with it's marketing and some overly aggressive fans (similar to Cold Steel)

When you look at my remarks, most of them can be rectified rather easily. The inside tools might need an update though. I'd like to see SOG pull off what Ontario did when they brought in Tooj from Ka-Bar. Their designs were updated and their quality really went up

[AimlessWanderer]

My comments were general, regarding SOG/this thread and not a reply to anybody specific.
We know you love all people and all social and economic systems Al (aka flowerchild  )
    

 

I do try to apply my scathing cynicism equally, not sure that makes me a flowerchild though

[Sea Monster]

BECAUSE NO ONE BLOODY STOCKS THEM


I have never had a chance to try one, getting one shipped over at their prices is a leap of faith I have no real desire to make.

(anyone feel free to send me one for review though )

[charlie fox]

I've always seen SOG tools as somewhat of a novelty - cool ideas, but not such good execution. I owned a Paratool for a good while and thought the idea of adding tools was great. But that whole angle head thing did it in for me - the one time I actually had to use the tool for a heavy chore and I couldn't get it to keep from folding up on me. Since then, if I carry an MT at all, it's as simple as I can get it.

[Chako]

This is kind of like asking why aren't Bear & Son MTs more popular here?

I like SOG, but the overall tool line has some issues.  My primary complaint are dainty as in very thin folding tools. Otherwise, I do appreciate their designs overall. As a collector. I do like SOG. As a user, I do not on average use them as my EDC.

[powernoodle]

I like SOG MTs.  As with everything, we measure how good SOG MTs are relative to the rest of the market.  If the rest of the marketplace sucked, we would rightfully characterize SOG as awesome.  So if one does not care for SOG, perhaps it is because he prefers the competition. 

But considered by themselves, SOG MTs are smooth to open, robust, have the compound leverage feature and are the only MTs with user-replaceable tools.  So they have a lot going for them. 

[silentio]

I've had three SOG tools. My take:

Cross Cut -- was very happy with it. Gave it away to a friend, and got a Micra. Ended up liking the Micra more, but that was a preference. The Cross Cut was great quality I felt
Powerlock -- this was standard issue for my country's army for a short time. I got one from a younger soldier, and have been using it during reservist training. Solid tool, great quality.
PowerDuo -- this is where my impression of the company took a nose dive. I was one of the early customers of this product, in fact, got it from a group buy here at MTO. Terrible terrible tool. Fit and finish was just bad, tools couldn't be folded back in without using a lot of effort -- in fact, the first unit I got was defective and had to be replaced.

I haven't seen any SOG tools since then (they are not very common here), but I hope for their sakes that the PowerDuo is not representative of their quality these days.

[bayoublade]

....to MTO members??   

Hahaha! Awesome! I'd love a chance to give SOG a chance for Christmas! :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marcellus]

I think the Pocket Power Pliers is a handy MT, very manageable size and weight, with very good wire cutting strength.
I use mine, mainly for the pliers, the other tools are adequate as well
Reminds me, sort of,  like the original Leatherman PST from the early to mid 80's.
I have recommended it to people, that I feel  it would suit their needs.
But that's just me.
However, that said, SOG is not my favorite MT manufacturer

At this moment the total post and topics for  SOG vs.Leatherman here (MTO)are:

SOG              12,405 posts, 731 topics
Leatherman   110,368 posts, 4625 topics

So yeah, not a lot of love or interest from the members


 Edit: Gerber Tools sub forum traffic also is considerably less than Leatherman
 Draw your market share conclusions at your own risk

Marcellus

"What does Marcellus Wallace look like?" 
 
         

[SouthernSteel]

I bought my dad an S66 last year as he only carries either a knife or MT.
Never both (face palm).

I was pleasantly surprised by the quality even though I was reluctant to buy more SOG products after having two of their low-end knives snap from abusive outdoor work.

It didn't feel quite as robust as my ST300, but at almost half the price ($40ish) I couldn't complain. So far it has replaced his original supertool (which I'm glad he's not abusing anymore) for daily use.👍

[gregozedobe]

BECAUSE NO ONE BLOODY STOCKS THEM


I have never had a chance to try one, getting one shipped over at their prices is a leap of faith I have no real desire to make.

(anyone feel free to send me one for review though )

Whereabouts in Oz are you located ?

[Yalius]

My first experience with SOG wasn't all that positive-- on my PowerAssist, the plier head snapped clean in half the first time I used it. It was replaced under warranty (with an extra goody thrown in). I've also acquired a Blacktip, and couple of their folding knives (Sogzilla and Aegis). I'm not super impressed with the overall quality of any of them. The blades and implements of both PowerAssist and Blacktip are a little substandard compared to other tools, in utility, quality, and materials (plain old 420 blade steel? Not even 420j2 or 420HC?). The folding knives weren't exactly models of quality either-- the primary grind on the Sogzilla was way uneven and the Aegis had bladeplay out the wazoo. So SOG is sort of being left by the wayside. Quality-wise, I'd rank them right on par with Gerber, just with different priorities.