Self Defence/products on defending your family

[Crow]

For a little while i have become more concirned of unknown people around me and my family. Criminal activity has gained more on to violent attacks than just stealing randomly from here and there.

I do know how to protect myself from thread or violent attacker, but when it comes to protect my family, and specially when i am not near. How do i, or you protect your family/yourself from outside threads?

I have stuff on my EDC,  that i can use to defend me and my family, i have ordered self defence stuff for my wife hoping she will use it, if it comes to that. 

Show me, and tell me how do you protect you, or your family from outside threads. I would like to be more prepared on things that i can't control.

[Top-Gear-24]

Get a dog  .

Even the most friendly dog is a potential threat for someone with bad intentions.  And a couple of loud barks while they are working on your front door lock is probably enough to make them go away ...

Just to be clear, I own a Golden Retriever (Coby, 12 years old), and he's about the sweetest dog I've ever known.  And I have no intention in using him for self defense, and I would rather have my car stolen than my dog hurt by a burglar, but I know that he will alarm us when there's something strange going on at our front door  .  And I don't know how he would react when somebody is trying to hurt one of my boys or my wife, but I do know dogs really like their pack.

On the other hand, a dog is not really something you could easily add to your EDC setup ...

[Kampfer]

When someone walk into our home, this would be the first thing he sees.

[Kampfer]

An incident took place three years ago:
0202, someone was trying to get in from front door. Wife alerted.
0203, remain calm, quietly, get weapon and ammo, lock n loaded, strategic defense position secured.
0204, wife call 911
0205, get dress
0206, police arrived at scene, suspect in custody. (Police station is 0.2 miles away)
0230, report taken, weapon cleared, back to sleep.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=688845

[Mextreme]

Well maybe a Finn will not take defence advice from a Swede too seriously, but anyhow:
As Finland is as dark as Sweden in the winter: I have put several strong LED lights in my garden that are motion-triggered.
Placed so that they are "in your face". A little bit annoying but makes it a little harder to recon your home. The neighbours also easy can detect activity when you are not home. I can also disconnect them from the inside if I have a barbecue or something in the garden and don´t want to be bothered by the lights going on and off. I also have two cameras so I can have a look from upstairs if the lights go off during the night and have time to react if something is going on.
Like you I´m also concerened when I´m not home but my wife is from Brazil and the criminals here are like a joke to her. I think she would make them clean the house before she kick their asses out on the street again.

[comis]

I think setting up some kind of protocol and learning how to use those products are important. 

People always panic and loss sight of priorities, unless they are trained to use those products and are well versed in using them, I think it may be a lot to ask of them. 

[comis]

 I think she would make them clean the house before she kick their asses out on the street again.

 

[David]

If you want to harden your home there are many things you can do to deny or slow down hostile intruders. Depends on what type of home you have your goals and the amount of money you have to spend. A layered approach to hardening your home helps buy you time to respond to the threat. Some times those added seconds is all you need to save your family.

[Wilfried]

I hire some of these gentlemen to do the job.

[Etherealicer]

I went for the "Divide and Conquer" strategy...

Two houses down there is a Bentley Continental GT (in baby blue ) parked. A couple more up there is a Ferrari 3563746 Italia... I would presume these houses are more worthy targets

[Lynn LeFey]

This is a VERY big topic. First and foremost, I'd say that anything you do should be one within the restraints of the law where you are. While that might seem obvious, I just thought I'd start with that.

The BEST option, IMO, is one of planning, and living in a low-crime area to begin with. I understand this isn't always an option, but should be a real point to consider. While learning Jeet Kune Do might be cool and all, moving to a less crappy neighborhood is probably smarter in the long run. Bruce Lee would call this 'The Art of Fighting Without Fighting'. This may either be essentially free, or cost you in additional rent/mortgage to pay for the better location.

After that, the first concern is to make your home a bad target. Rose bushes under windows, secure SOLID doors with deadbolts etc., motion sensor lights, maybe a house alarm (or, as mentioned before, a good dog). Don't have ludicrous displays of wealth (expensive cars, as mentioned earlier). You can wander into crazy-town with this category though, like keeping erratic schedules so people casing your house won't know your schedule, and hardening the interior of your home against gunfire. This is mostly a one-time cost as you improve various bits of your living location. Usually not terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things.

Second, I don't know the laws there, so you might have to skip any advice I give as not relevant to your location.

In the U.S., the first thing pretty much everyone says for home defense is 'get a shotgun'. They're cheap, and they're about the most devastating close-range weapon you can legally have. With light shot, issues of over-penetration are mitigated as well. There is a myth that you 'don't even have to aim them'. That's BS, particularly at short ranges. Also, firearms are the most potentially lethal option. There are lots of people who are not comfortable with the thought of using lethal force. I make no moral judgements on people one way or the other. In the U.S., you're looking at a cost of a few hundred dollars for a very reasonable pump action shotgun.

If you want a much less expensive option, that still allows a degree of range, I'd say pepper spray, combined with a baseball bat or some such. Yes, blunt instruments can still kill, but at a much lower likelihood than firearms. Hitting an assailant with pepper spray (usually) all but incapacitates them. Usually. Sometimes it does exactly nothing. Assuming you get the incapacitation you want, moving to baseball bat range is less of a risk. That's the 'good news'. The bad news is, in an enclosed space... you might be affecting yourself almost as much as an assailant. For a container of pepper spray and an aluminum baseball bat you're talking about maybe $40.

Beyond baseball bat, if you're dealing with intruders at arm's length or close to it, you had better go get actual combat training. I see LOTS of 20-something men who carry X knife 'in case they need to use it for self defense', and then not have ANY training in knife fighting. IMO, you're better off with a broom handle. if you get to this stage, you're talking about a huge investment of TIME, and a considerable investment in money for instruction.

So, the plan...
1) Avoid the situation altogether by careful selection of living location
2) Take reasonable precaution to prevent intrusion
3) Engage at range whenever possible
4) If you can't engage at range, get real hand-to-hand training.

Understand, I'm not an expert. This is just the best thinking I've had on the subject (and it's a subject I've done a deal of thinking on).

[captain spaulding]

Lynn, the only thing I do not agree with is the use of "light shot" to mitigate over penetration. If by "light shot" you mean bird loads or target loads I would suggest to never use these for home defense. You will not kill and depending on distance you might barely wound the intruder. Remember, these loads are designed to kill small birds at close range. They spread and lose energy very, very quickly. If you are going to shoot someone it better be to immediately stop the threat and you should have a load that will properly do that. I do agree that over penetration is a issue that one has to be very aware of and take into consideration when choosing a home defense firearm.

[rdub934]

Lynn pretty much nailed it.

I will foot-stomp on getting a dog. We got a Doberman. She is sweet as syrup and I can't imagine her hurting anyone, but she is 80 lbs, black, cropped ears, docked tail, long tooth-filled snout, and has a booming bark. She makes people think twice. If nothing else, she alarms me and my wife that something is up, which is when we go grab the .357 Mag or the 20 gauge pump full of buckshot to greet our "guest"

I bought my Remington 870 brand new for $300. You could get one second hand for very reasonable, I would imagine.

[Lynn LeFey]

Lynn, the only thing I do not agree with is the use of "light shot" to mitigate over penetration. If by "light shot" you mean bird loads or target loads I would suggest to never use these for home defense.

I wouldn't recommend going all the way down to bird shot, but preferably something smaller than 00 Buck Shot. Even something like #4 Buckshot is using balls larger than a .22. So, yeah, maybe even an F shot I'd still consider acceptable (which sort of splits between buck/bird)

Not BB size or anything though, I'd agree.

[Aloha]

Not in any specific order,

I believe quality locks are important ( commercial grade ) and quality doors that are hung properly are important.  Windows are the weaknesses to our homes so a home alarm with loud arse siren is great.  I've had false alarm and police were there quickly. 

My dog is my early warning device.  I have a small dog so no attacking from him but he always alerts me when someone is AT the door or NEAR it.   
 

Lighting all exterior entry ways with motion sensor lights. 

The most important part is having a plan.  I don't own a gun so I've opted for other measures and tactics.  Surprise is always to the surprisers advantage. 

   

[captain spaulding]

Lynn, the only thing I do not agree with is the use of "light shot" to mitigate over penetration. If by "light shot" you mean bird loads or target loads I would suggest to never use these for home defense.

I wouldn't recommend going all the way down to bird shot, but preferably something smaller than 00 Buck Shot. Even something like #4 Buckshot is using balls larger than a .22. So, yeah, maybe even an F shot I'd still consider acceptable (which sort of splits between buck/bird)

Not BB size or anything though, I'd agree.

Agreed. 

[captain spaulding]

Not in any specific order,

I believe quality locks are important ( commercial grade ) and quality doors that are hung properly are important.  Windows are the weaknesses to our homes so a home alarm with loud arse siren is great.  I've had false alarm and police were there quickly. 

My dog is my early warning device.  I have a small dog so no attacking from him but he always alerts me when someone is AT the door or NEAR it.   
 

Lighting all exterior entry ways with motion sensor lights. 

The most important part is having a plan.  I don't own a gun so I've opted for other measures and tactics.  Surprise is always to the surprisers advantage. 

 

Sure is. 

[shark_za]

A good perimeter and early warning system; dogs; layered access; alarm and armed reaction.



And a means of deadly force should it come to that. Some knives have been designed to work with minimal training as a "get off me" device.  (Matriarch and Civilian) A lot would have failed for it ever to get to that.
While I have a shotgun I don’t see it as a full time coverage item, taking it out and storing it again when I move around becomes a pain, a 24/7 pistol works for me.

[Zed]

I'm with you guys on a dog,I've had 3 dogs over the last 20 years and no matter how friendly most will defend there family till the death,that said I'll grab my wakizashi  and go all samourai on there ass 

[Grant Lamontagne]

The only issue with the layered plan if it includes a dog, even a little one is that you have to then be very careful when moving to the next layer- gun, knife,  stick etc.  Vet bills would cost a lot more than a new TV and you certainly don't want to reward your dog with an injury (or worse) for doing his or her job.

That being said, my house is protected by a 120 pound shepherd/rotti cross that is pretty ornery with people she knows, so I almost feel bad for anyone trying to get in unannounced. 

Almost.

Def

[Aloha]

I'm with you guys on a dog,I've had 3 dogs over the last 20 years and no matter how friendly most will defend there family till the death,that said I'll grab my wakizashi  and go all samourai on there ass 

 

[anon]

I carry a FNH Fiveseven MKII. I'd rather carry less lethal options but other types of weapons tend to be regulated where I live but you can get a carry permit for a handgun.

[Zed]

I'm with you guys on a dog,I've had 3 dogs over the last 20 years and no matter how friendly most will defend there family till the death,that said I'll grab my wakizashi  and go all samourai on there ass 

 

  

[Smaug]

I read something once that suggested folks get a can of hornet spray for their bedside table. It's non-lethal, and a shot of that in the face would surely do the job. It has a stream shape and goes about 12' (~4m).

Outdoors, the mini pepper spray keychain attachment would be my choice for my wife.

I have kids in the house, so the guns are locked up; they'd probably be a bigger liability than anything. I could get one of those finger combo safes, I guess...

[Crow]

@Mextreme all suggestions are welcome.

Good advices everyone. I do have motion sensor lights on my front yard, backyard will be covered this fall. Only problem with them is animals. We have few rabbits running on our yard, so lights go on now and then.

As for dog, we do not have time or energy for it.

I do have baseball bat next to bed, and big bowie style knife and light.

Here pepper sprays are illegal as well as telescopic batons. But might try to obtain them anyway.

I really would like a gun, but i will have to get hunting licence first. Wich i might do anyway.

What is stupid in our country? If i hurt my attacker too bad, i could go to jail for it, and would have to pay compensation to the attacker.

[anditsgone]

Because my family always laughs at me when i talk about prepping ( i am the oldest son 19 yrs) i also plan for them even though they dont know it. I have some fixed blade knifes: cold steel bushcraft knife, an 50 year old solingen fixed blade and a mora fixed blade. Not really self defense knifes but they can cut and stab.

I have no hate against all the refugees that are entering europa and also the Netherlands but there are a lot of people that do hate them and they are fighting against the locations where refugees are located. 2 days ago a group of 20 people with balaclavas and fire bombs broke into the center and tried to set the place on fire with the refugees in the center.
Of course it is not fair, they come from a war zone where everyhing is destroyed etc... but we pay taxes and bravely do what is expected from us. For example if i wanted to get a rental home (or whatever you call it) i have to wait 5 to 7 years as a dutch tax paying citizen. They come here and get a house, insurance, money, food  free transportation. Especially in the big cities and in the villages where the refugees are located this creates a lot of havoc under the citizens.

I do not expect rages but last week in France a women living in an appartment was robbed and set out of her house by a group of refugees. If those things are going to happen more you can expect the dutch people to protest against the refugees. Especially if cases happen like young childeren getting raped or people getting robbed.
Not all the refugees are bad, but there is always a small group that ruins it for the other guys.

The things that maybe can happen is Ferguson like rages although i dont expect those in this civilized country. I always think what could happen in stead of what will probably not happen.
Just like the time we've had the terrorist attacks in France. In those weeks i carried an Cold steel AK 47 knife.

So i probably want to upgrade to a decent dedicated folder.
Another good fixed fighting knife. I agree on the flashlight i now have mag led with 180 lumens but i will probably buy a fenix led light.

Due to the dutch law guns are out of my reach. I could buy an air rifle or a crossbow but i am not enough of a prepper to spend so much money on them.

[anditsgone]

Also pepper spray is verry effective but i dont know if it is legal in your country, it is not in the netherlands.
A regular aluminium baseball bat will do a lot of harm but is not really effective in small spaces.
I always try to think from the thief is perspective. If i where the thief, where would i enter, what tools would i carry, what are the weak spots in your security. Thinks as if you want to break in to your own house, what would you do if you would encounter someone in the weak spots you have found.

The most scarring weapons are daggers and cold steel combat knifes like the wartanto and that kind of stuff although these are very expensive.
Other than that i would recommend to teach them some simple rules in knife fighting. There are a lot of videos on youtube. They won't make you a pro knife fighter but you will probably learn some basic rules.
Because if i handed someone a knife and say fight with it they will probably lose the knife in the fight and then you have the great danger that the knife will be used against you which is the last thing you want.
Make them comfortable with the weapons/tools you have and explain how to use them.

But those are only in the worst cases. I dont recommend to stab the thief to death because in europa you will go to jail. I would recommend non lethal force when someone breaks in your house like pepperspray (only when legal) or a small baseball bat.

Cheap fighting knife: cold steel gi tanto
Baseball bat maybe second hand or something, wont cost a lot maybe a couple of euros.
Pepperspray is very effective but also ruins you own vision in a lot of situations. It is about 30 euro a can if i am not mistaken.

[AimlessWanderer]

Pepper spray in certain areas could be deemed as intent to cause harm and get you in trouble. However, if the police were to arrive and you explained you grabbed a nearby can of WD40 you left there after stopping the wardrobe door squeaking, or fly spray, or talcum powder, or furniture polish.... different story.

Same with an aluminium baseball bat or one of the big maglites, unless you want to stand in court declaring unusual intimate activities with your partner (or self), a walking stick, umbrella, safety boot, desk lamp, or decorative (convenient sized) wood carving (maybe) would be easier to explain away.

There are plenty of products in most homes that warn of avoiding contact with eyes and to seek medical attention if you do, and lots of things that hurt if you, drop them on your toe, or they fall off a shelf and land on your head. Why go out spending money on things that will get you labelled as the offender

[anditsgone]

Pepper spray in certain areas could be deemed as intent to cause harm and get you in trouble. However, if the police were to arrive and you explained you grabbed a nearby can of WD40 you left there after stopping the wardrobe door squeaking, or fly spray, or talcum powder, or furniture polish.... different story.

Same with an aluminium baseball bat or one of the big maglites, unless you want to stand in court declaring unusual intimate activities with your partner (or self), a walking stick, umbrella, safety boot, desk lamp, or decorative (convenient sized) wood carving (maybe) would be easier to explain away.

There are plenty of products in most homes that warn of avoiding contact with eyes and to seek medical attention if you do, and lots of things that hurt if you, drop them on your toe, or they fall off a shelf and land on your head. Why go out spending money on things that will get you labelled as the offender

Agree, a can of brake cleaner is not labeled as a weapon although it (permanently) ruins their vision. It is also much cheaper.
I never recommend stabbing people because they will win in court. Although a lot of burgalars leave with their tail between their legs and dont go to the police saying he got stabbed while robbing someone. Only if he is in a life threathning situation.
I am not sure a cane wil do the same stuff as a base ball bat. It will probably break after the first strike.
But it is hard to explain that you hit someone with a baseball bat.

Cold steel's videos may be funny to watch, but they are the number one supplier of home defense stuff that are legal in europa. 

[strmliner]

Get a dog  .

Even the most friendly dog is a potential threat for someone with bad intentions.  And a couple of loud barks while they are working on your front door lock is probably enough to make them go away ...

Just to be clear, I own a Golden Retriever (Coby, 12 years old), and he's about the sweetest dog I've ever known.  And I have no intention in using him for self defense, and I would rather have my car stolen than my dog hurt by a burglar, but I know that he will alarm us when there's something strange going on at our front door  .  And I don't know how he would react when somebody is trying to hurt one of my boys or my wife, but I do know dogs really like their pack.

On the other hand, a dog is not really something you could easily add to your EDC setup ...

+1000

You can't beat a dog for protection and to join the family...he may not stop an intruder, but he'll let you know that an intruder is near!