cant sleep 😞

[Zed]

Ive suffered with this for years,probably 16yrs of working night shifts doesnt help,it effects my mood greatly, i struggle to sleep at night and during the day after a shift,i take sleeping tablets that use to work but not so much now,i ran out this week and sleep pattern even worse,my main problem is that my mind doesnt shut off and I think about stuff,even worse since starting my new job 4 weeks ago,lots of stuff stressing me out,i cant even get into my hobbies,these are what usually takes my mind of work,i might have too cut down on my coffee or get decaf again,ive tried herbal teas etc but they dont help,sadly this lack of sleep  doesnt help with my depression  anyone got any advice 

[Tomcat_81]

My students are about to start their exams in about a month, so it's insomnia-time for them... Since deprivation of sleep is one of the easiest and most effective strategies of torture and makes sure that you can't learn at all, I try to help them through this. Several points must be considered:

A kind of pattern or rhythm is absolutely necessary, and be it only that you have certain rituals before going to sleep. This helps your body to get into sleeping mode:

- Fix an absolute bed-time, including lights-out and NO exception. This takes time, but eventually it works. Tried myself.

- Don't use bright lights an hour or so before going to bed. Bright lights, especially blueish-tinted lights, destroy melatonine, the stuff that makes you sleep.
Thus, never use any screens the hour before you go to bed. Watching TV, using a notebook, pad, smartphone etc. will prevent you from sleeping because their blueish light signalls to the brain: "It's bright daylight! Time for being active! Reduce that melatonine."
Instead: Dim your lights, read a book/magazine or listen to some pretty lame music. 

- Turn off (!) your phone or all other devices for communication. It's tempting to check ones mail or even to just wait for that odd message at night, and your mind won't find any rest. And hey, just a minute of fiddling around with that blue glow will make sure that your brain is wide awake again- see above)

- Even a short sleeping cycle can be a good one if you get enough deep sleep. But you have to be careful not to mess it up: The following things will prevent you from getting a good deep sleep!
ϟ eating shortly before going to bed. This will be hard labour for your body and you can't sleep well
ϟ drinking alcohol. Same as above- alcohol is hard work for body and brain, and even if you initially feel that it knocks you out, you won't get into that cycle of deep sleep. So you'll wake up even more tired :-(
ϟ Doing exciting stuff (ceratin... sports not included, they greatly help ;-) ). If you fill your brain with new and exciting things just before going to bed, you'll still be in power-on-mode... No sports, counterstrike, no highly emotional thrillers etc...

-Always keep your feet warm and your head pretty cool. You'll need enough fresh air, but when you've got cold feet, you'll never sleep. Maybe even get that odd hot water bottle out again. Helps and is one of that nice rituals mentioned above.

- Try to get away from sleeping pills as quickly as possible. After some time your body will get used to them. Your body:" Hey cool, I NEEDN'T PRODUCE that melatonin-stuff any more- I get it FOR FREE in that pill! Yess man, wooheeeee!"
It will take some time to get it back into working properly, but it's worth it.

- I don't believe in homeopathy, voodoo and stuff, but there are some good plants in the garden: Valerian makes a good tea, but it'll take about two weeks of constaltly sipping that until it works well. Hypericum perforatum is great as well, but you can get light-sensitive from that. Hop, genus Humulus, is great as well, but only on men. Not kidding here, but there was a good reason why only women worked harvesting hop for the breweries- men got drowsy and tired. Keep in mind- Herbals only work if taken over a longer time, about two weeks min.!

- Don't take afternoon naps, even if you're completely spent. Sleeping longer than 20 minutes in the afternoon will completely mix up your sleeping rhythm.

- Take a complete re-start. Please make sure that you don't bring yourself and others in danger, so if you're a bus-driver or pilot, don't do that. It's my remedy against jetlag and also helped me to get onto the tracks a couple of years ago when I was in a similar situation: Skip one night of sleep completely. Don't allow yourself to get a bit of rest, instead waste the night to spend a miserably tired next day. On the evening of that hellish day go to bed at your fixed bed-time and you'll pretty likely sleep well.

- If in bed, sighing through that agony of sleeplessness, go for a walk, only in your mind. Take the longest and best hike you ever did and try to remember every single step. Don't allow yourself to rush. Contemplate every move you took, every tree you remember etc. That calms you down. Finished your first hike? Take the next one.

Good night, I hope I could help a bit!

Tomcat

[kirk13]

Paul,take a look into ZaZen meditation. At its core,it's about getting ones mind under control.

PM me if your interested

[Zed]

Wow guys so much too look into,i usualy go on my tablet before i sleep (or not) so ill stop that,phone,yep see that now,going too leave it downstairs  think ill stick a hot water bottle at the bottom of my bed  ill try and read a book as well,great ideas  thanks tomcat 

john yours sounds interesting,ill pm you 

[Tomcat_81]

+1 for Kirk!
Take a good look into ZaZen -
my father had to recover from a serious illness a couple of years ago and this was what helped best.

[pfrsantos]

One more important thing: don't watch TV or read in bed. Create the habit to go to bed to sleep, not to be awake reading or watching a movie or listening to music.

I used to do this and sometimes had a hard time falling asleep. Another thing I do, if I can't sleep, is to get up and go to the living room and read for a while, until I feel tired and sleepy. Then I go back to bed. It creates the habit of not being in bed awake. This translates into going to sleep when you go to bed.

Sometimes a long, warm bath before going to bed helps to relax and feel confortable, making it easier to fall asleep.

 

[Zed]

+1 for Kirk!
Take a good look into ZaZen -
my father had to recover from a serious illness a couple of years ago and this was what helped best.

 
Im working the next 2 nights so ill let you guys know how it goes 

[Zed]

One more important thing: don't watch TV or read in bed. Create the habit to go to bed to sleep, not to be awake reading or watching a movie or listening to music.

I used to do this and sometimes had a hard time falling asleep. Another thing I do, if I can't sleep, is to get up and go to the living room and read for a while, until I feel tired and sleepy. Then I go back to bed. It creates the habit of not being in bed awake. This translates into going to sleep when you go to bed.

Sometimes a long, warm bath before going to bed helps to relax and feel confortable, making it easier to fall asleep.

 

i can see a lot of things im doing wrong  you can definitely teach a old dog new tricks 

[Zed]

Another thing im going to do is walk to work tonight and walk home,its about a 30min walk so hopefully after a 12hr night shift it will finnish me off  i was cycling but the roads on the way to my new job are a death wish,plus need to get my fitness back,

[Etherealicer]

Well, when it gets bad for me I take something with Diphenhydramin (e.g. Benocten).
Unlike other sleeping pills you cannot get addicted from this as you build resistance within days (you can take it once or twice but then you have to stop for a couple of week or it won't work).

[rishardh]

Sorry to hear about your sleeping issues. Sleep deprivation is a terrible state to be in. If I do not get sleep for a few days I somehow get a long sleep done after a few nights. It's more like a coma induced sleep due to exhaustion. I try to get in a good workout to help but sometimes that does not work either. Sorry I do not have any good advise to give. Just showing some support 

[rishardh]

My students are about to start their exams in about a month, so it's insomnia-time for them... Since deprivation of sleep is one of the easiest and most effective strategies of torture and makes sure that you can't learn at all, I try to help them through this. Several points must be considered:

A kind of pattern or rhythm is absolutely necessary, and be it only that you have certain rituals before going to sleep. This helps your body to get into sleeping mode:

- Fix an absolute bed-time, including lights-out and NO exception. This takes time, but eventually it works. Tried myself.

- Don't use bright lights an hour or so before going to bed. Bright lights, especially blueish-tinted lights, destroy melatonine, the stuff that makes you sleep.
Thus, never use any screens the hour before you go to bed. Watching TV, using a notebook, pad, smartphone etc. will prevent you from sleeping because their blueish light signalls to the brain: "It's bright daylight! Time for being active! Reduce that melatonine."
Instead: Dim your lights, read a book/magazine or listen to some pretty lame music. 

- Turn off (!) your phone or all other devices for communication. It's tempting to check ones mail or even to just wait for that odd message at night, and your mind won't find any rest. And hey, just a minute of fiddling around with that blue glow will make sure that your brain is wide awake again- see above)

- Even a short sleeping cycle can be a good one if you get enough deep sleep. But you have to be careful not to mess it up: The following things will prevent you from getting a good deep sleep!
ϟ eating shortly before going to bed. This will be hard labour for your body and you can't sleep well
ϟ drinking alcohol. Same as above- alcohol is hard work for body and brain, and even if you initially feel that it knocks you out, you won't get into that cycle of deep sleep. So you'll wake up even more tired :-(
ϟ Doing exciting stuff (ceratin... sports not included, they greatly help ;-) ). If you fill your brain with new and exciting things just before going to bed, you'll still be in power-on-mode... No sports, counterstrike, no highly emotional thrillers etc...

-Always keep your feet warm and your head pretty cool. You'll need enough fresh air, but when you've got cold feet, you'll never sleep. Maybe even get that odd hot water bottle out again. Helps and is one of that nice rituals mentioned above.

- Try to get away from sleeping pills as quickly as possible. After some time your body will get used to them. Your body:" Hey cool, I NEEDN'T PRODUCE that melatonin-stuff any more- I get it FOR FREE in that pill! Yess man, wooheeeee!"
It will take some time to get it back into working properly, but it's worth it.

- I don't believe in homeopathy, voodoo and stuff, but there are some good plants in the garden: Valerian makes a good tea, but it'll take about two weeks of constaltly sipping that until it works well. Hypericum perforatum is great as well, but you can get light-sensitive from that. Hop, genus Humulus, is great as well, but only on men. Not kidding here, but there was a good reason why only women worked harvesting hop for the breweries- men got drowsy and tired. Keep in mind- Herbals only work if taken over a longer time, about two weeks min.!

- Don't take afternoon naps, even if you're completely spent. Sleeping longer than 20 minutes in the afternoon will completely mix up your sleeping rhythm.

- Take a complete re-start. Please make sure that you don't bring yourself and others in danger, so if you're a bus-driver or pilot, don't do that. It's my remedy against jetlag and also helped me to get onto the tracks a couple of years ago when I was in a similar situation: Skip one night of sleep completely. Don't allow yourself to get a bit of rest, instead waste the night to spend a miserably tired next day. On the evening of that hellish day go to bed at your fixed bed-time and you'll pretty likely sleep well.

- If in bed, sighing through that agony of sleeplessness, go for a walk, only in your mind. Take the longest and best hike you ever did and try to remember every single step. Don't allow yourself to rush. Contemplate every move you took, every tree you remember etc. That calms you down. Finished your first hike? Take the next one.

Good night, I hope I could help a bit!

Tomcat

Some very good advise. Will send this to my Nephew who is a student. Thanks!

[Zed]

Thanks guys for the pm's there a big help,this is getting me very down and been like this for a while now,its a reason i dont post as much as cant get into anything at the moment as my interest level is down,the support from here is always a big help to me,its tough now as got a 12hr shift ahead of me and only had about 2hrs sleep since last night,im still looking for another job as still not sure about this one,ill try a few of these ideas tomorrow morning once ive walked home 

[kmanct3]

Ive suffered with this for years,probably 16yrs of working night shifts doesnt help,it effects my mood greatly, i struggle to sleep at night and during the day after a shift,i take sleeping tablets that use to work but not so much now,i ran out this week and sleep pattern even worse,my main problem is that my mind doesnt shut off and I think about stuff,even worse since starting my new job 4 weeks ago,lots of stuff stressing me out,i cant even get into my hobbies,these are what usually takes my mind of work,i might have too cut down on my coffee or get decaf again,ive tried herbal teas etc but they dont help,sadly this lack of sleep  doesnt help with my depression  anyone got any advice 

My wife has the same exact issue, being a labor and delivery nurse for 21 years on the 7 pm to 7 am shift. Her depression started 5 years ago after a botched back surgery and didn't get any better 10 surg. later . She is usually up all night and day with spotty naps. She has prescription sleep aids that do not work. Not sure if you can do this but just try to get in as much rest periods as possible and try to get out in the sunshine , that seems to help. I wish I could tell you something that would help but that's all I have. I know from watching my wife that's its no fun. Good luck 

[Gerhard Gerber]

I don't sleep nearly enough, 5 hours is a good night for me.

I used to stress about it and that's a downward spiral into depression.

Since I changed my diet (going on 40kg lost so far) I realised I have lots more energy, so despite the fact that I might want to sleep more, I don't need to.

I don't stress about it anymore, and I don't fall asleep at work - 90% of the fight won.

For the rest, I put on some episode of Ancient Aliens to drown out the voices in my head busy planning the day. 

[Zed]

Thanks guys  I slept better today as my wife picked up my sleeping tablets and antidepressants,walked home from work this morning,walked very fast as cold,took about 33mins,got home kettle on and did a hosmurfer bottle and a hot milky drink,took tablets while eating breakfast,put warm bed cloths on,got into bed at 9am woke up at 4.40pm  if I wasn't back in tonight I wouldn't of taken a sleeping tablet so thur I'll try all this without out it 

[Weasel]

Evening buddy
Hope your sleeping situation improves soon.
All the best 

[SteveC]

Evening buddy
Hope your sleeping situation improves soon.
All the best 

+1   

[kkokkolis]

Some very good advices about sleep hygiene here. But I'll add mine anyways.
 One that works the best is good old sex and then a warm hug.

[kkokkolis]

Sleep will come, just don't fight it.
Stop thinking about sleep. It is an instict, trying to control it will almost always destroy it. Let the instict control you. Relax and enjoy.
When you feel sleepy, just close your eyes, no matter what. If you resist, your circadian clock will make you sleepy after two hours, give or take. So don't waste any opportunity.
Avoid benzodiazepines as devil. If you take them, taper them off. Most chronic sleep problems come from them through tolerance, addiction, withdrawal cycles. They ruin REM sleep. Try 15mg Mirtazapine, 25-100mg Hydroxyzine or 50-200mg Quetiapine instead.

[kirk13]

I'm sorry,I know this is a serious thread,but...


Hosmurfer bottle...

[kkokkolis]

I'm unfamiliar with that expression.

[zoidberg]

I'm sorry,I know this is a serious thread,but...


Hosmurfer bottle...

Classic.   

[Zed]

  

[magentus]

I'm sorry,I know this is a serious thread,but...


Hosmurfer bottle...

Someone didn't think this language filter business through did they?

I shall start to use Hosmurfer bottle rather than hot water bottle because it sounds cool and German.

[pfrsantos]

Some very good advices about sleep hygiene here. But I'll add mine anyways.
 One that works the best is good old sex and then a warm hug.

I prefer good young sex, but hey... to each is own!

 

[Aloha]

Sorry to hear Zed.  Turning off all those voices can be done thru breathing.  Yeah right HUH?  Quieting the mind is something many deal with especially when its time to sleep.  Medication, sex, exercise, hot water bottle, as well as all the great advice given already is wonderful.  Meditation is difficult for some because there is noting that somehow sting and "being" will quiet the mind. 

Breathing and noting the "chatter" within and yet still finding that quiet place is possible.  There is no need to fully shut off the rampant voices to become relaxed enough to sleep. It will take practice and daily efforts to find what breathing techniques will work for you. 

Wishing you sound and deep sleep. 

[Zed]

Sorry to hear Zed.  Turning off all those voices can be done thru breathing.  Yeah right HUH?  Quieting the mind is something many deal with especially when its time to sleep.  Medication, sex, exercise, hot water bottle, as well as all the great advice given already is wonderful.  Meditation is difficult for some because there is noting that somehow sting and "being" will quiet the mind. 

Breathing and noting the "chatter" within and yet still finding that quiet place is possible.  There is no need to fully shut off the rampant voices to become relaxed enough to sleep. It will take practice and daily efforts to find what breathing techniques will work for you. 

Wishing you sound and deep sleep.

thanks mate,kirkys been teaching me the ways of zen and breathing,its very interesting and seriously trying it out,my shift last night was herendous,i worked a whole dementia section alone, there should be 2,anyway a  long  story but i sent my new boss a complaint email this am,i was so wound up when i got home,ive decided too look again for yet another job but not in care,i feel my job isnt helping my sleep situation,so back on a job search  thanks for all the advice,its really appreciated