Let's see your sharpening stones/gear!

[SAK Guy]

Can't decide.... will probably go with a can of Norton oil. Would try water but that Norton stone is already precharged with oil so don't know if that would work.

Both work fine for me. Trick is to use a drop of dish soap with water. For larger jobs I find water AND oil work great with the dish soap. Oil alone can get a little too thick for lapping large surfaces. Considering Norton oil is food safe, I would bet it's food grade mineral oil. My can ran out last month, but I never could see any difference between it and mineral oil from the drugstore.

To lap other stones or large areas of steel, I rub the corner of a coarse silicon carbide stone onto the coarse India. The AlOx of the india stone isn't as hard as SiC, but it's much tougher than SiC and much harder than glass or granite, so it makes a good, durable, aggressive lapping surface. The SiC stone easily fractures/dislodges particles onto the tougher Norton india. Freshen up, frequently, with more SiC, and it cuts like a demon.

Some steels respond to river rocks, some don't. They all respond to diamonds

. A little SiC stone fixes that, too. But your average river rock is going to wear a lot faster than Norton india stone when used that way. SiC and india stone makes a pretty decent alternative to diamond lapping plates, without some of the disadvantages of diamond. Main pro.... you can't permanently mess up or wear out an india stone.. well you could wear one out, but you would have gotten more than your money's worth, lol. 

My Norton Combo india is one of my most useful stones, even if a finished knife edge rarely touches it. It does larger profiling/lapping jobs on hardened steel and lapping shaping of my other stones. not to say the fine side doesn't give a great edge.

Wow!!! Thanks for the info bud!!!   

You've clearly passed steel over stone a few times!!!! 

[kl27x]

I like my stones.

I rounded up some for a pic. My Norton combo india is far left. Fine side on mine is orange, and it didn't come in as fancy a box as yours. If I had to start all over from scratch, that would be one of the first tools I replace. Then I have a combo silicon carbide stone next to it. Most of the rest are various shades of Arkansas. I use a waterstone in the kitchen, but I forgot to include it.

[SAK Guy]

Awesome collection! 

[Poncho65]

Awesome collection! 

+1 some nice stones you have there kl

[kl27x]

Thx guys. I feel a less odd for hoarding pieces of rock like gold bars. It made my day to be able to share with other people who get it.  I guess I can divulge; I made this pic my wallpaper. Admitting I have a problem is the first step, right? Thx, again.

[Aloha]

I like my stones.

I rounded up some for a pic. My Norton combo india is far left. Fine side on mine is orange, and it didn't come in as fancy a box as yours. If I had to start all over from scratch, that would be one of the first tools I replace. Then I have a combo silicon carbide stone next to it. Most of the rest are various shades of Arkansas. I use a waterstone in the kitchen, but I forgot to include it.

(Image removed from quote.)

You've got a nice selection.  Thanks for sharing.

[Poncho65]

Thx guys. I feel a less odd for hoarding pieces of rock like gold bars. It made my day to be able to share with other people who get it.  I guess I can divulge; I made this pic my wallpaper. Admitting I have a problem is the first step, right? Thx, again.

No judgement from me I have a few and would have more but tracking down older benchstones is a job sometimes I have memories of my dad getting an old whetrock out and get one of his carbon steel knives shaving sharp He would show me how sharp it was by shaving a small bit of hair off his arm and I be like He still has those same stones 30+ years later and although he has a Lansky and other sharpening things now I still have memories of those older stones he has In fact one of them he has was given to him by his father-in-law my grandfather

[cbl51]

I used a few diamond DMT and Eze-Lap stones for serveal years, and they were good. But then I was up in the attic going through some old boxes of stuff and found my old boy scout stuff. I started to use my boy scout "carborundum" stone and I was amazed at how fast a good newsprint slicing edge got put on. I started to use it almost exclusively for my knife sharpening, and remembered when it was our only way to sharpen, and our knives were sharp. I love the old school stone, and use it now all the time. I do keep a cut down Eze-Lap model L in my wallet for when I'm out someplace and need to touch up an edge.


The model L in wallet with a few odds and ends.
 

I've been known to use the bottom of a coffee mug in a pinch. Ceramic works good!

[4everYoung]

I got a worksharp guided field sharpener from my wife for Christmas. I used it to sharpen several knives over the past couple nights. I've normally used stones or a diamond file type sharpener. However I have been very pleased with the worksharp. I found most of my blades did well with just the ceramic rod and the strop.

[Poncho65]

I used a few diamond DMT and Eze-Lap stones for serveal years, and they were good. But then I was up in the attic going through some old boxes of stuff and found my old boy scout stuff. I started to use my boy scout "carborundum" stone and I was amazed at how fast a good newsprint slicing edge got put on. I started to use it almost exclusively for my knife sharpening, and remembered when it was our only way to sharpen, and our knives were sharp. I love the old school stone, and use it now all the time. I do keep a cut down Eze-Lap model L in my wallet for when I'm out someplace and need to touch up an edge.


The model L in wallet with a few odds and ends.
 

I've been known to use the bottom of a coffee mug in a pinch. Ceramic works good!

I love that leather slip and stone you have from the boyscouts

[Poncho65]

(Image removed from quote.)
I got a worksharp guided field sharpener from my wife for Christmas. I used it to sharpen several knives over the past couple nights. I've normally used stones or a diamond file type sharpener. However I have been very pleased with the worksharp. I found most of my blades did well with just the ceramic rod and the strop.

Nice system 4ever

[kl27x]

re:cbl51:
Yeah, even my "fine" 240 grit silicon carbide stone will leave a really good edge, esp if I leave the mud on the stone and use a light touch. It works a lot better with a good dose of oil, though, and it does make a bit of a mess, which makes it a bit less handy for pocket use.

One of the reasons I like translucent Arkansas for a pocket stone is it both holds its shape very well, and it is easy to clean. If you use it dry, it clogs fast, but the grit sticks to the stone, not your pocket. Even a light smoothing/straightening will often make a big improvement. And you can easily wipe the metal off, later. A little bit of paper towel dampened with your tongue will clean it spotless  

Half a dozen or one, six of the other, though. With a carborundum stone, I'll sometimes lay off the edge and grind until the stone and blade lap together, and the slurry/stone just kiss the edge. With the translucent ark, I'll lay the edge right on the stone for a touchup. Carborundum is definitely more versatile, though. You can only get by so far with just a fine ark stone. I do love carborundum for the speed and surface finish.

As an aside, I took the missus to the Home Depot for her annual day-after-xmas Christmas light shopping. While there, I decided to pick up another silicon carbide bench stone. I ask an employee, and he immediately responds that they don't carry bench stones, anymore. The heck, I say. He must be mistaken. Nope.... all they have is a $30.00 6" DMT hone and a flip open DMT pocket hone. No Smith's. No Norton. No generic $10.00 AlOx or SiC stones. What is the world coming to, anymore?

[kl27x]

Re: Carborundum/SiC stone:

I finally got another (cheap) carborundum stone, and I found something very interesting. The coarse side is the slowest cutting stone I have ever seen. I had no idea carborundum could cut so slow (or at least that anyone would make such a stone!). It's probably 80 grit and it might as well just be a block of glass, then it would at least not make the occasional odd scratch. I use it for lap, though. It is great for lapping other stones, smeared with lapping paste. It's even slower wearing than my Norton coarse india. I wonder now, what an "ideal" carborundum pocket sharpening stone would be in terms of grit and hardness/bonding. I suppose if you made one fine and hard enough, it could put an edge to rival just about anything... Scary sharp uses wet/dry sandpaper which is SiC. But mayhap a fine and hard SiC stone would get glassy, quick,  and not cut very well.

[Aloha]

I found this stuff and tried some recently.  I am not certain it made a difference however it certainly "feels" like it did.  I'll need to do some more testing to be certain.  The diamond spray smells awful. 

[SAK Guy]

You guys have some great systems!!!! 

[kl27x]

I am not certain it made a difference however it certainly "feels" like it did.

Compared to what? That's the question. Also, you supposedly have to make a new strop if you are going to use a finer abrasive than the old one. The larger particles will never come out of the leather.

Isn't diamond supposed to cut faster than chromium oxide?  I think the finest of chromium oxide compounds is still considered the best final stropping finish, next to bare leather. That's what I have read, anyhow. The str8 razor fans talk about using 0.25 micron diamond paste on a strop for faster cutting before finishing on 0.5 micron chrom ox, then plain leather.

As for chromium oxide, I used a generic green buffing bar for years and never thought too much about it. When I finally tried a different brand (of "extra fine") chrom ox, the difference was night and day. I noticed almost immediately. It made my knives sharper AND it also cut faster. If you look at the MSDS, some chromium oxide compounds are as little as 1% chromium oxide and up to 75% aluminum oxide!  Size of chromium oxide varies, too. The finer chromium oxides can approach half a micron on average, and it goes up from there to multiple microns. Over a soft backing, like leather, the larger partcles will pretty much never break down into smaller ones, either. 

[Aloha]

The Diamond spray was used on hard leather.  I do have cheap green chromium oxide on another strop as well as black and white all on separate strops.  I pretty much use the black then white then green and have had terrific results.  I have also heard the higher grade chromium oxide is night and day as compared to the cheap stuff. 

I say "feel" as compared to raw leather, white, and black compound.  The green I have been using is by far the most effective as it mostly polishes ( I don't know how much cut if any ) the bevel with my edges coming out stupid sharp. I have also tried mothers mag wheel polish just for kicks.

   

[kl27x]

Hmm, I'm a little confused how you compare your black, white, diamond, and leather as having similar feel... confused how the plain leather goes with all the coarser strops, but chrom ox is the stand apart?

I personally hone with translucent ark or maybe ceramic sintered ruby for harder steels and have never used the coarser strops. I go straight from stone to the chromium oxide treated leather, and it doesn't take much stropping from there. I have plenty of convex edges and some recurves, too, but I freehand those on stones, as well.

Lemme know how the diamond works out in the long run. Maybe I'm missing out on something useful.

I'm more concerned, personally, with the final (for me) strop. Now that I have seen the variation in chromium oxide abrasive compounds. I have urge to try some more brands/sellers, but I already have 50 lifetime supplies of green buffing compound. And every new one I try will be another 10 to 20 lifetimes, minimum.

[Aloha]

I better clarify that I am still newish when it comes to this next level edge work.  While I understand more or less what it actually going on in terms of what we are doing or aim to do.   

I use a Lansky with guide rods initially setting my edge angle ( 20-25ish ) knife dependent.  There are variances to the guide rod system I use,  I've noted it in a thread somewhere.  The final stone on my Lansky is 600 but I wanted to polish my bevel.  I used an Arkansas stone ( 1000-1200 grit) but nope not what I was after.  I experimented with stropping using compound on leather till the bevel shined.  This is where I could have stopped and be super stoked but...........   therein lies the road for all those who dare chase the mythological Kronos' Scythe edge  . 

Ok so to better clarify if a can what I've experienced.   

I began to exclusively use green on dense nap leather and I always got a mirror polish and a wicked cutting edge.  Frankly I could have really stopped here but its fascinating to see or try to see any subtle differences.  All my edges on all my blades including my MTs are hair popping ( both directions ) sharp also mirrored.  Its really good enough honestly but again I'm fascinated.  I have black and white but maybe its the quality of those compound that I've not noticed or felt any cutting that was supposed to happen.  I cannot say for certain.  I can say the steels I am using these compounds on are 01, 1095, VG10, 8cr, SAK steel, and 420HC.  I should also confess I can get impatient so once the result if not met I move on.   

I'm not at the level to convey much more to you.  I am actually stoked to have refined all my edges to where I am using basic materials.  I got the Diamond spray at the fleamarket for a $1 and figured I'd experiment with it.  I know some are using diamond paste and very small particle compounds but my thing is,  can I do it with what I have and on the cheap? 

The Diamond spray is just a fun experiment as are anything I've tried.   I use porter cable green compound which is Chromium Oxide 3 with an unknown particle size(?).  I had a look on wood workers forums and other forums and honestly speaking they seem to feel using any Chromium Oxide on their chisels is not rocket science.  I know this topic on blade forums and straight razor forums can get very detailed.  What I can say is while I enjoy all the conversations and yes I will chase Kronos' Scythe edge  I do have a limit somewhere.

I figure if the guys who use chisels are happy with what basic compound produces then I can be as well.  Hope that answered any questions.

I'm off to polish my scissor now     

[kl27x]

Great writeup, thanks.

I think for mirror finish on a stone, you need to use probably 12,000 grit, Japanese system. Or like 3K plus, "western." My 3k sintered ruby hone make a crazy mirror finish, anyhow. Translucent ark is usually described as 1400 grit, which seems to me is somewhere south of 1k grit sandpaper for surface finish.. hazy not mirror. Regular hard ark, yeah that's not even close to mirror. I'm pretty sure I don't understand grit ratings, lol. Apparently Norton uses its own system, altogether.

But I can say for sure, an extra fine ceramic stone for your lansky can put a mirror polish on a bevel, no problem! Not many natural stones will do that, IME, and probably even fewer that would work in a Lansky system without dishing quickly.

I figure if the guys who use chisels are happy with what basic compound produces then I can be as well.

Yeah, this was me, too. I just happened to be near a new bar of green stuff when I made my last strop, and I decided to try that one. Hair poppin was never a problem, but hitherto I never actually made a blade sharp enough to shave thicker facial hair (at least not within my tolerance for pain). The new stuff brought my edges over this hump. So now I have to try more. TBH, even this new green stuff is called "extra fine GREEN buffing compound," rather than "chromium oxide," and I can't find an MSDS. So I have ordered some plain chromium oxide powder just so I can be sure I have at least tried pure chromium oxide!
 

[Aloha]

Its a fun process for me and I imagine for others like ( us )  .  I really had no clue my Arkansas stone wasn't going to put a "nice" polish on my bevel  that of course was early on.  I will eventually get the that polishing stone for my Lansky.  I've seen some neat videos of guy polishing their edges and its pretty awesome.   

Its a fun journey to see how insanely sharp a blade can get with compounds and such.   I haven't yet gotten into the water stones thankfully but I can see myself going down that path  

Thanks for the conversation.  I'd like for you to do a write up on how you'd go from factory to how you prefer your edge.  I think a lot of members could learn a bunch.  I know I'd like to learn from others approach.   

[SAK Guy]

This has turned out to be a really awesome thread!!!!

[sak60]

I just bought this alox stone. Have been using Waterstones for awhile but wanted something to use quickly without waiting for the stones to soak.
And this is my strop and compound I use. The compound is from a local woodworking supplies shop.

[Aloha]

I just bought this alox stone. Have been using Waterstones for awhile but wanted something to use quickly without waiting for the stones to soak.
And this is my strop and compound I use. The compound is from a local woodworking supplies shop.

Looks good.  Thanks for sharing. 

[Aloha]

This has turned out to be a really awesome thread!!!!

It sure has. 

[sak60]

I just bought this alox stone. Have been using Waterstones for awhile but wanted something to use quickly without waiting for the stones to soak.
And this is my strop and compound I use. The compound is from a local woodworking supplies shop.

Looks good.  Thanks for sharing.

[kl27x]

I just bought this alox stone. Have been using Waterstones for awhile but wanted something to use quickly without waiting for the stones to soak.

Cool. I am under the impression that most synthetic waterstones are AlOx, too. The natural ones are mostly microcrystalline quartz. The big difference between your new stone and your (synthetic) waterstones is probably in the binder. They all vary, but in general I find waterstones are often more muddy than AlOx "oil" stones. (I often use AlOx "oil" stones with water). But stones can run the spectrum of hard and slow wearing to fast and muddy, in both styles.  If you are transitioning from muddier stones to harder/drier stones, the main thing to watch out for is that it will be slower, for the grit. And also, you will tend to form a larger burr off  the more rigid stone. Either or is fine, you just have to adjust your technique and/or method for finishing.

I'd like for you to do a write up on how you'd go from factory to how you prefer your edge. 

Nothin too fancy. A lot of knives come with a good edge, so I just use it. SAK's, for instance. Pretty much perfect, as is. A lot of my other knives require serious grinding to thin the profile, to get them how I like. But since I just do things by hand, there's not much to tell, but here goes.

60 grit belt sander is a normal starting point. Ham-handed and leaving serious asymmetry and unevenness. From there, an aggressive SiC stone works like magic, but it changes shape quite fast and is very muddy. So it tends to convex everything. So as things get closer and I am trying for more symmetry and flatness, I might use a harder-wearing aluminum oxide or SiC stone with SiC grit on it. Fine grit SiC stone is the final stone for smoothing convex areas; soft ark for flats, usually. So I when I like the shape, I smooth over the marks areas with sandpaper. From here, the actual edge is easy to finish with ark stone. Soft ark, if I want to put a flat bevel on the knife. Straight to translucent, if I want to just sharpen the apex and leave the convex shape. Strop on chrom ox, swipe, swipe, swipe, about 10 times and done.

I have plenty of opinions on Arkansas stone, though. Feel free to ignore because I'm mostly talking out of my rear, from here on out:
Arkansas stone: This is microcrystalline quartz. In translucent/surgical ark, these crystals are over 99% of the stone. So there's essentially no binder, no give, no slurry. They wear quite slow, but they don't cut super hard/abrasive steels, well. I have heard it said that ark stone makes wide and shallow scratches, so it actually sharpens better than its relative grit rating/surface finish abilities. I have quite a bit of fondness for these stones, and I believe this is true, even though I haven't seen this with my own eyes on a microscopic level. The difference in surface finish between Ark and AlOx/SiC/ceramic is very distinct. With a fine AlOx/SiC/ceramic finish (and SiC most especially, IMO), you will get it where when u hold it at just wrong angle, you will see the haziness/scratches imparted by the direction of your strrokes. But most all other angles will look smooth. With ark, almost every angle is the wrong angle, and maybe just one angle will look smooth. It is not always obvious which direction you made the strokes, either. To me, this indicates some difference in the nature of the scratches. Who knows?  As bad as this surface finish looks, the haze smooths over and mellows with just a few seconds of rubbing with 1000-2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper and totally disappears soon after, so the actual scratches are very superficial.  I think the hardness of the stone/binder (= BURRS!) and the haziness are why more people prefer synthetic stones. If you inadvertently get higher up on the knife, you will "ruin" the finish. I just stay on the bevel/apex with the ark stones, and no worries. It gets knives sharp and the material is easy to work with in that it's hard and slow wearing on steel. But it can be cut/ground fairly effectively using SiC grit. So you can shape your stones and keep them flat, no problem. You can put rounded bevels on the edge for curves. This is the biggest drawback with ceramics, IMO, is that ceramics are what they are. The surface finish/flatness and gross shape is what it is, and damned if you can change that in your lifetime or without ruining $$$ of diamond plates or using expensive diamond lapping compounds and a LOT of elbow grease.

I also have yet to find a good "hard Arkansas" stone. I find cheap soft ark plenty good enough tool, and translucent ark to be quite consistent and much more useful than hard ark, in general. I use my low quality hard arks mostly with SiC grit on top, as hard-wearing and smooth lapping surfaces. One I've initialy shaped a small knife, it is rare that I will ever use a soft ark on it, again. Mostly translucent ark is enough, or if I need more work I will usually use AlOx stone over soft ark., unless I need specific curves or extreme flatness (plane blade or whatnot). The soft ark is most useful to me for the ability to hold its shape quite well for custom shaped files/stones.

Also, tip here. It's very, very difficult to take a brand "new" (millions of years old) expensive Arkansas stone or other hone and go and round a corner on it. But what I have found is that radiusing at least one long edge of the stone helps tremendously in sharpening recurves by hand, or even straight blades. You can seamlessly transition between the radius part and the flat part, giving you more flexibility than a separate rod hone and flat hone. Also for removing nicks, using the radiused edge to focus pressure can make even translucent Arkansas fast enough for minor repairs, and you can of course sharpen this newly ground and slightly recessed section of blade just fine on the radiused stone, rather than grinding back the entire straight section of blade. And afterall, you only need one crispy corner for sharpening next to ricassos/handles. I have such a hard time to "ruin" a perfectly machined and lapped stone, most of my curvy stones are odd bits I shaped myself... and they are my most used hones. 

[sak60]

kl27x
Thanks for that info. Not transitioning will still use both simply got the stone to use quickly without the prep for my Waterstones. I went to Waterstones from oil stones. 

[kl27x]

^ No thanks, needed. I like to hear myself talk.

At this point, I'm just splitting hairs, literally.

In my latest exciting news (yawn ), I just found the MSDS for the "good" stuff that woke me up to the quality of my green buffing compound. Grizzly not only has this posted on their site, but they also sell it for dirt cheap.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Green-Extra-Fine-Buffing-Compound/D2902
Click on the yellow "MSDS-PDF" button below the picture!

Pure chromium oxide, indeed!

I dunno if I posted this here, before, but for comparison check out the MSDS of this other green buffing compound, for instance:
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/polishing-tools-accessories/polishing-compounds/green-rouge-sku032000023-44983-77857.aspx
Click on the yellow "OHSA - SDS" button below the pic and read the ingredients.

Also, I noticed that in addition to the Extra Fine Green Woodstock buffing bar, Grizzly also carries the Fine Green Woodstock buffing bar. MSDS is also included. And it also contains only chromium oxide in the exact same amount as the Extra Fine. So someone, somewhere graded these two chromium oxides at different levels of fineness. As far as I can tell, the MSDS's are identical, aside from the SKU numbers.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Green-Fine-Buffing-Compound/D2912

Haha, I'm loving how Grizzly includes MSDS link for practically everything.
Flitz polish? 2.5% CRISTOBALITE. A polymorph of quartz crystal. Thanks Grizzly and Wikipedia. 

[sak60]

Haha, no problem. Will check out those links.