Opinions about ESEE and KA-BAR Becker knives ?

[Top-Gear-24]

F1 has great reviews, aside from that one. If I'm not mistaken it's not in the Becker price range.

Over here, the F1 is quite close to the BK22 in price, not that the F1 is a lot cheaper over here than in the U.S.A., but the Beckers are more expensive, sadly enough  .

I believe the F1 is 6 Euros more expensive than a BK22.

[styx]

Gideon's tactical doesn't have a very favorable review of the F1 either, mostly because the handle is small and again the sheath issue (those interested in what that is all about can read my first post on page 7 of the following thread http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66820.180/topicseen.html)

A few years back there was a notion that if Fallkniven were to put the H1 handle on the F1, it would be very hard to measure up to it. But then again there was also the notion in the on line community that combo edges were bad because they were executed all wrong with 75% straight edge being towards the tip and the 25% serrated was towards the handle, yet when Victorinox came out with their 111mm models that were the exact opposite the internet knife community lost it's mind over the design and not in a good way.
As for the price, Fallkniven F1 often falls in that price range area of midtech knives and lower priced customs (one could argue about Blackjack, BRKT and AKC being production rather than midtech and I couldn't disagree as the lines are a bit blurred)

[Gerhard Gerber]

Gideon's tactical doesn't have a very favorable review of the F1 either, mostly because the handle is small and again the sheath issue (those interested in what that is all about can read my first post on page 7 of the following thread http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66820.180/topicseen.html)

Slight hijack 

Needless to say I'll be putting kydex in a fridge some time, not that it ever gets that cold here.

I have no problem with the sheath of my Mora Bushcraft, and I'm sure the same is true for the plastic Falkniven sheaths.
They might not be pretty, but they are very functional, and therein lies their beauty.

[styx]

Beauty in something practical?! Blasphemy! Soon you'll tell us that you're one of those multitool loving heathen

[firiki]

...Ka-bar Large Heavy Bowie.

(Image removed from quote.)

I know I've said this before, well done for removing the coating I like this knife an awful lot otherwise

I bought it like that.      

In that case, good move

[firiki]

Did he really just not tell us what he ordered?

I went through this about a year+ ago, ESEE v. Becker.  Settled/decided on the Becker but I don't remember the deciding factor.  Maybe just the discontinuation of the 5/15 and possibly 4.

Yes, he did   .

All I can say is that I ordered one of the four knives that I mentioned in my opening post, I did have a good look at a Fallkniven F1, a TOPS Knives B.O.B., and even looked at different Enzo and Helle knives (once you start looking at this type of knife, you find a lot of other options apart from the ones you started out with ...  ).   And even now, after placing the order and finding out the delivery date has been delayed, I've been thinking about contacting the webstore and get something else, and I would even consider the Fallkniven F1 with zytel sheath, since this one has also started to grow on me while reading reviews and watching youtube videos about it. 

So, what do you guys think of the Fallkniven F1 ...  .

 

About those youtube reviews, some of them are just hilarious  .  I've seen a chubby bloke in his 40's, standing in a "green environment" with a lot of man made structures in the background, talking about how the Fallkniven F1 could be used in a knife fight, while he switches the knife in his hands along with some tactical moves, ready to stab someone.  After that he started to complain about the lack of tactical sheath carry options, the rattle of the sheath that could give away his position, as well as the fact that the blade is not black coated, which could also give away his position ...  At that point I always try to imagine what the smurf he's going to use it for ... bound to be something very tactical ...  .

YouTube reviews is quite the mixwd bag lot

So, whaddidyaget, TG?

[Top-Gear-24]

YouTube reviews is quite the mixwd bag lot

So, whaddidyaget, TG?

I haven't gotten anything yet ...  .

The online store expected the knife I ordered to be delivered last week, then all the sudden they said it would be delivered in 7 days (expected time of delivery, monday 22/08).  And since I received no mail to tell me it was shipped out to me I went back to check their site today and guess what ?  Yep, expected date of delivery: again 3 days ...  .

I hate this situation, having a hard time deciding which one I should buy, and when you finally make up your mind, it takes weeks until you get your hands on your knife, which gives you way too much time to start having doubts about your decision ...

And it gets worse ...  My wife was feeling sorry for me since the knife was supposed to be my birthday gift last week from her and the kids, so she said I could order another one (one of the others that I did not pick  ), since all of those were in stock and ready to be delivered the day after I payed the order.  So, again I had to make a choice, and the Kabar BK knives and the Mora Garberg which were on my first list are no longer in the picture (maybe I've ordered on of them, maybe I'm not interested in them anymore, guess you guys will have to wait a bit for that  ).

So the one that stayed was the Esee Laser Strike, joined by the Tops Knives B.O.B. and the illusive Fjällkniven F1, and when I finally decided I would go for the B.O.B., I read on the site that it's out of stock, expected in two weeks ...   

So, I can wait for my first order and forget about the rest (but when the wife says you can buy a knife, you have to grab that chance with both hands, in my opinion),I can order the Esee Laser Strike and hopefully have it delivered the day after I placed and paid the order, or I can order the B.O.B. and still have nothing (yet) for my birthday, or I could drive to the local outdoor shop (5 miles from my door) and pick up a Fjällkniven F1 (leather of zytel, both were available at the store).

Do I dare ask what you guys think I should do  ? 

Here's how I see it (here I go again  ):


Esee Laser Strike:

pros:

- available right away (at least at this moment  ).
- the middle one of the three in price.
- great usable sheath
- fire steel in handle (nice extra)
- apparently awesome warranty

cons:

- never had the chance to see and hold one in real life
- I'm afraid that if I order one (available right now) and pay for my order, it will than go to "expected in ..."
- maybe a bit too "tactical" looking
- how well is warranty "outside the U.S.A." ?  Where do I send it, how long will it take and will it still be "no questions asked" ?
- firesteel in handle only for real emergencies, but not very practical in real life


Tops Knives B.O.B.:

pros:

- not as tactical looking as the Laser strike
- includes a firesteel and more important, a place on the sheath to hold my "light my fire" Army firesteel
- looks very nice in my opinion


cons:

- never had the chance to see and hold one in real life
- the most expensive of the three
- sheath needs a bit of work, need to make a leather or heavy duty nylon loop so I can hang it around my belt and clip the belt clip of the sheath on my Leather or Nylon loop hanging on my belt (does this makes sense  .)
- I don't know anything about how well or poor their warranty is
- not in stock at the moment, expected time of delivery ... two weeks


Fällkniven F1 Leather or Zytel sheath:

pros:

- available at a local store, drive 5 miles and I'll have it in my hands
- cheaper than the other two
- held it in my hands, had the chance to check both type of sheaths in real life
- gets a lot of awesome reviews
- not too big and scary
- decent warranty (10 years) through the local shop
- dealer can send knife to Fjällraven for sharpening and re-profiling the blade (convex grind)
- less "wow" factor as the other two (not really offensive looking)

cons:

- rumours about chipping of the blade
- less "wow" factor as the other two (not really offensive looking  )
- convex grind, laminated steel ... sharpening nightmare ?
- the Zytel sheath ws a bit disappointing in real life, I know they are made for use in Scandinavian weather and all that stuff, but when I placed the F1 in the Zytel sheath and turned it upside down, it didn't feel real assuring (I must say, it never fell out, but it was quite loose), the leather sheath looked well made.


Sorry for asking the same old questions over and over again guys, but I really value your opinions  .

Oh, you guys should know that I've got a Spyderco Sharpmaker on the way, so maybe you can tell me which of these three knives would be easy to sharpen with the Sharpmake (keep in mind that I'm a sharpening NOOB, and I'm going to practice on old pocket knives and Mora's first before I try and sharpen one of my more precious knives).  I've read that the Fällkniven F1 can be a pain in the *ss to sharpen, but I've also read that it's the easiest one to sharpen (with a mouse mat and some fine grit sandpaper, but like I said, I'm a newby and need help, lots of help ... 

Thanks for taking the time to read my rambling, I really appreciate the help  .

Greetings from Belgium,

Eric

[styx]

Tactical is perhaps not something that can be considered a positive these days. Just look at the latest zombie knife ban in the UK which leaves a lot to interpretation.

Why not go to the store, try the F1 in your hand and see how it feels? Some people consider the handle to be too small and too thin and you'll be spending a good amount of cash so it wouldn't be all that great if you were disappointed later. My offer to send you the TOPS to try out still stands if that's of any comfort.     Just saw that you already did that

As far as sharpening goes, don't worry about it too much. Unless you follow very very strict form it's easy to but a bit of a convex on knife even with a perfectly flat stone. So convex edges can be sharpened with a sharpmaker, you just gotta change your angles. Although I'd suggest getting a stropping compound and maintaining the edge rather than waiting for it to get blunt.
When you start with the sharpmaker, use the sharpie/marker trick so check your angles.

[firiki]

The most important reason for buying locally is because I like being able to personally check the item I'm getting. This way I can tell if it suits my needs or not (most of the time, at least) and check for flaws so I don't have to go through the hassle of returning the thing.

I realise this isn't always an option and then I have to make up my mind based on other factors. This means I'd discard the ESEE because I don't like the finger grooves on the handle. I think a good handle is a crucial part of a knife and the one on the ESEE isn't my first choice.

I like the B.O.B much better but I think that blade-wise it looks quite similar to the Garberg (which, BTW, I've had the chance to hold in my hand and quite liked it, FWIW). Different specs than the Garberg, though. I do think the Garberg holds very good value. 1095 steel on the other hand... see my comment at the post's end...

The F1... I like the blade shape but I'm not fond of laminated steel and I think blades this thick need some more length. I might be wrong about that, though. Also, I've seen one with a broken handle somewhere, admittedly it was the result of some abuse.

I'll suggest the Glock knife once more, despite the fact it doesn't have a full tang. Cheap enough not to break the bank, tough enough to be reliable and it will help you master free-hand sharpening.

[zoidberg]

Greetings from Belgium,

Eric

Hey Eric from Belgium, you've been challenged.      

[Aloha]

The blade shape and handle are crucial to my decisions.  Since many times I cannot hold the knives I am left with blade shape and grind when making a decision.   

I think the spear point of the Laser Strike is a terrific shape.  The flat grind is not a deal breaker for me.  For versatility flat is hard to beat plus it'll be one heck of a slicer.   

The finger choil is also not a deal breaker nor does it sell me.  I do love a guard on my fixed blades but on a bush craft knife not so much.  The finger choil with gloved hand probably would be nice in hand.

I'm sure many have looked at the BOB by TOPS.  It sure looks like a great knife and has quite a following.  I'll tell you what keeps me from it,  warranty vs ESEE.  I love that Esee has the "No questions asked warranty".  I know the chances of breaking the knife is slim but what a nice safety net when our using the knife hard. 

I don't know what TOPS warranty is but I'm pretty sure its nothing like Esee's. 

Now I do like the BOB because of what it is. 

Heres a video,

[styx]

A word of caution with ESEE's warranty - they honor it and really do replace anything, but you might find yourself being ridiculed on their forum if someone from the staff thinks that your issue wasn't warranty worthy. There have been a few examples of that and I remember once being told that it's because they make tools for real users, what ever the hell that was supposed to mean.

[Aloha]

A word of caution with ESEE's warranty - they honor it and really do replace anything, but you might find yourself being ridiculed on their forum if someone from the staff thinks that your issue wasn't warranty worthy. There have been a few examples of that and I remember once being told that it's because they make tools for real users, what ever the hell that was supposed to mean.

Real users huh?  Well if I was really using it and it broke then honor the warranty and save the mouthing off. 

I also don't get "Real Users" 

Rolled edges and chips are my biggest issues.  I suspect grind, steel choice, and heat treat all being the culprit.  I also say don't market your knives as "hard use" or "bush craft" and not expect me to use as such or whine/ridicule me when I make a warranty claim.   

 

[styx]

I think there was a guy who cut his ESEE with a blowtorch and they honored the warranty. An extreme case but they did stand by it.

That real users came up after a question on batoning for crosscutting. Really odd because about that time there was some controversy about a guy batoning his 4 model tip down into a log of fatwood and prying off a piece (the knife survived with just some coating near the tip getting rubbed off).
The flip side being that a younger guy (17 to 19 y.o.) either said or sent in his knife (different reports that really counter one another) because the coating rubbed off entirely. If it's just the coating then I can see them being a bit whiny about it, however supposedly the guy also lived in a humid area so rusting was a big issue and had worked his edge to the point where it became unstable (I'd wager that some aggressive sharpening was in play). I can't really say what is the truth behind it all and I doubt that at this point anyone else can either.

Although this isn't the only time ego got the better of a maker. Jerry Busse banned at least one person from buying his products because the guy said that their edges can be thinner, Mike Stewart (BRKT) had entire wars with some people who said that the edges of his knives can be thinner and because they might have had some HT issues with a new steel, Robert Young Pelton had a bit of a meltdown when someone bashed his HEST (at the time ESEE was making them), Mick Strider is well Mick Strider and there are probably books written on that topic, Rick Hinderer's people (maybe even he in person) had a meltdown over one review. And these are just the big company guys, I can't imagine how many times a custom maker blew his or hers lid off because they probably have very strange people contact them very often. Although there are some douchebags that are simply that.

As far as moronic stances on warranty, you might recall that I had issues with one very big outdoor gear manufacturer last November because they refused to honor their 1 year warranty and it was a pain to get 'em to stand by their word. Even more so because their excuse was that I walked too much in hiking boots (that I wore for maybe 3 months) and that's why the warranty is void. Smurfholes are everywhere

[David]

 In the past I've seen some real humdingers on the forums. The last time Sparky, Mclung and a few others tried to crucify Mick Strider was a real dandy. They went Yosemite Sam on Mick and when the smoke cleared Mick was still standing and doing better than ever.      Mick Strider comments to Darrel Ralph were well classic Mick. Ernie Emersons melt down with Neil Blackwood kind of came out of no where was short but intense.          

[Aloha]

All interesting "wars".  I'm not on any other forums nor heard of the "wars".  I did read some people taking swipes at those guys but never paid it any mind.  I've also watched a few videos where guys have also hinted to such "wars", again I never paid it any mind. 

On one hand I can totally understand the maker.  Its their baby and someone is saying its "ugly".  I mean what are you supposed to respond with? 

Virtuvoice always regrinds BRKT edges and has tons of videos showing exactly what he does.  This dude has many many BRKTs.  I doubt BRKT is any issue with this guy.

I'd imagine its the arm chair "user" that ticks off these makers.  The "collectors" and such   

On the other hand there are some flipping knowledgeable guys out there who know their stuff.  While they may not make knives they certainly use them and know what works. 

Passion on both sides possibly?  I do love passionate people however, especially when that passion results in producing some awesome tools. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd buy Esee simple due to their warranty.  I don't currently have one but I get closer and closer to making my mind up.  I've almost bought a BRKT but I cannot get one in hand to see what works in my hand. 

I am really wanting an LT Wright knife.  I am so close to pulling the trigger.   

[Top-Gear-24]

One thing I've learned from reading these last posts is that I'm a complete newbie when it comes to this type of knives, the companies that make them, the guys that design them, and even the guys that buy them  .

Here's where I stand, the Tops Knives B.O.B. looks like a great knive, but their warranty is a bit of an unknown factor, and it's very pricey over here (between 180 and 195 Euro).  The ESEE knives are nice, but maybe a bit too aggressive looking for use in Western Europe, the Laser Strike is less aggressive than the others, but still ...  Their warranty seems to be waterproof, but I did find it weird that they were not to be found on that other  knives Forum that SAK Guy mentioned before, you know the one I mean ...  .  And when I learned they had their own forum, it all looked a little bit suspicious to me.  And after reading the above posts I see why ...

Anyway, the knife I ordered is still not in stock at the webstore, I've e-mailed them and they said that they should have had it in stock 10 days ago, but their order keeps getting pushed backwords by their supplier.  So I've ordered another knife, and they promised that they would send that one, and the rest of my order (except for the one knife that's not in stock) to me today, so that it should be delivered at my door on monday, fingers crossed ...

I hope I can post some pics here on monday  .

Thank you all for sharing your opinions, and for giving me all the info I need, you guys are the best  .

[styx]

BRKT handles are apparently amazing for 90% of the people that get 'em. The 10% have either very small or very large hands so they are off a bit.

As a note on Vitruvoice, he pissed off several makers (production and custom) with claims of poor edge retention and other edge issues. What pissed 'em off was the fact that he was using a glass cutting board (which is very hard on an edge) and unwilling to admit it could have been that even after getting very different results on a wooden cutting board

[Top-Gear-24]

My package was delivered today  .

Here's what I ordered, there's still one knife in back-order at the webshop, I'll post pics of that one when I get it.

So, here's what I got until now ...












That's right, I got myself a Mora Garberg, a Mora Companion Heavy Duty Carbon, and a Spyderco Sharpmaker.  The Garberg was the best choice in my opinion, over here, people are not used to seeing other people walking around carrying a big knife on their belt, and the Garberg is the least threatening of them all, while still being a very capable knife.  I also like the fact that it's stainless steel, I'm not going to carry this knife every day, I will most likely carry it once every month or so, so the fact that it's quite low-maintenance is a good thing, and here in Belgium we have rain pouring down like 3/4 of the year, so the chances of this knife getting wet sooner or later are quite big.

I also ordered the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I've been thinking about buying a sharpening system for quite some time now, and I went for the Sharpmaker, since I'm a complete sharpening rookie, I'm going to practice with some of my cr*ppy knives before I'm going to sharpen one if my good ones.  And the Mora Companion Heavy Duty Carbon, well, there was a combo deal on that one along with the Sharpmaker, if I bought both I'd get like 5 Euro discount or so, which meant that the Heavy Duty Companion would only cost me about 12 Euro, that's a lot of knife for that kind of money.

One knife still to come, I'll post pics of that one later, when I receive it.

[Aloha]

You really couldn't have gone wrong with any of your choices  .  Glad you picked a low maintenance blade considering your usage and conditions.  The Garberg looks to be very capable especially since the regular Mora are very capable themselves. 

[David]

    Good gear there TG24!

[SAK Guy]

+1!!!!   Awesome choice!!!!! They are great knives!!!  You got a lot of nice stuff there, that HD is no slouch either! 

[styx]

congrats on getting the Garberg. now to see what is on backorder

[Top-Gear-24]

Thanks guys  .

Just had a look at the webshop, turns out my first choice knife is once more delayed, this time with two weeks ... 

So I've e-mailed the webshop and asked them to cancel my order, and now I can tell you guys which knife it was, here goes ... it was a ...












Mora Garberg, but with the multimount sheath  .

After long (looooooooooooooooooong) consideration I went for the Garberg with the multimount sheath, since I liked the idea of attaching it to my backpack's shoulder strap, but since it got delayed over and over again, I started to have my doubts about the shoulder strap thing, and looking at the pics Grathr, SAK guy and Outback in Idaho posted in the Garberg topic, I started to like the leather sheath more than the multimount sheath, and since the Garberg with leather sheath was available in the webshop I ordered that one and asked them to send me my order right away, and send me the Garberg multimount when the had it in stock. 

But now, after reading that the multimount version was delayed once again, I asked them to cancel my remaining order.

At the beginning of this topic I wanted a Laser Strike, a BK, or a Garberg, later I added the Tops Knives B.O.B. and the Fällkniven F1, and apart from the Garberg I've changed my mind on all of them, non of them ticked all the boxes on my list.  The 1095 steel is not ideal for my country and its weather, and I'm a bit affraid of sharpening the F1 (and I heared quite a lot of rumours about chipping on the F1), so that one is also of the list. 

So there's not much left except another Mora Garberg but this time the one with the multimount (but I would order it elsewhere, there's another webshop were they have the Garberg multimount in stock), and I always like having a back-up knife in my collection, this makes it easier for me to use one of them (same happened when I got my first Vic Spirit, it was only until I owned three of them that I started to use one in my EDC setup  ).  But there's also one other knife that caught my attention ...

And that's the Enzo Trapper 95, and in particular the N690Co version with flat grind, N690Co since it seems quite rust resistant and low maintenance, while being very able to hold an edge, and at the same time I've read that it's quite easy to sharpen (same goes for the flat grind, but I don't know if that's true).  Is a flat grind easier to sharpen than a scandi using a Spyderco Sharpmaker ?  Oh, and the leather sheath that comes with the Enzo Trapper looks very VERY nice ... And to give you guys an idea of the price, this knife is quite a bit cheaper than the Fällkniven F1, or the Laser Strike and B.O.B., and only a bit more expensive than the Garberg with leather sheath.

I did some searching here and on the other forum ( ) but I couldn't find much about the Enzo Trapper N690Co version, that's why I'm asking you gentlemen what you think of it.

P.S. I know that it must seem as if I jump from one knife to another, but it was only until I started my search for a good full tang knife, that I learned about some of these knife brands, like Tops Knives or Enzo (I had never heared of them until now).

[styx]

don't forget that you can use your Sharpmaker as a flat stone. Not as easy as an actual stone, but works.

Scandi and flat grind can be sharpened in a similar way it's just a matter of what edge angle they have since your sharpmaker has 40° and 30° inclusive setting. The scissor setting is about 12.5° for one side and that is fairly close to your average Mora. So don't be afraid of messing up, the worst you can do is put a microbevel on a scandi and effectively make it flat saber grind (or what most of us just call a saber grind)

for grinds, Spyderco has a good visual representation and explanation
https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=20

[firiki]

The Garberg seems a wise choice      and I like the Enzo. Having said that, I wonder if you'd be interested in looking at some bowie type knives as I think those can be pretty versatile and thus complement the Garberg well.

[SAK Guy]

don't forget that you can use your Sharpmaker as a flat stone. Not as easy as an actual stone, but works.

Scandi and flat grind can be sharpened in a similar way it's just a matter of what edge angle they have since your sharpmaker has 40° and 30° inclusive setting. The scissor setting is about 12.5° for one side and that is fairly close to your average Mora. So don't be afraid of messing up, the worst you can do is put a microbevel on a scandi and effectively make it flat saber grind (or what most of us just call a saber grind)

for grinds, Spyderco has a good visual representation and explanation
https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=20

+1!!!!  And I'll add that I (and a lot of others) put a micro bevel on a scandi grind anyway. It adds edge toughness and is still scary sharp, In fact, both my Bushcraft Black and my Garberg came with slight micro bevels. Some manufacturers do this as well. LT Wright puts a final "hard buff" on its scandi's to slightly micro convex/bevel the thin edge. Never had a chip or roll on any of my Moras since the 80's. 

Never bought an F1 because I cannot, whatever I do, sharpen a convex edge....it's too counter intuitive to the freehand technique I've been using for 45+ years. Tried with my only two convex knives but finally re-profiled the edge to a flatter geometry and everything is fine. That big Blackjack Rio Grand Bowie shaves like a Mora and I can field sharpen it with a DC-4 stone.

[Aloha]

A note on "sharpening" your blades.  I find stropping after prolonged usage brings back the edge on my 1095 and 01 steels.  I've not had to actually sharpen those knives yet.  I have a Enzo in 01 so I cannot speak to the steel you have in mind.  Mine is also scandi ground edge.  I really like the knife tho the handle is flat so depending on your hand it can feel..............  not so ergonomic.  I wont say uncomfortable just in my hand it feels thin.

I rolled the edge on my Anza file knife.  I was hacking Eucalyptus so its not too surprising.  I took my ceramic stone to it then followed up with black then green compound stropping.  The edge is back to wicked sharp again. 

I've beat on my Enzo too.  Some stropping with black compound has brought the edge back but it maybe time for some ceramic stones on this knife which is why I've been taking a look at whet stones.     

I'm thinking of 600/1000 or 1000/3000 still doing some more research.   I'm not re beveling so I don't want to aggressive a stone. 

[styx]

Aloha, since you're looking at stones, take a look at Belgian blue and yellow sharpening stones. The blue fits somewhere between 4k and 6k, and there are versions that are combined with a 600 silicon carbide stone. They also tend to run a bit cheaper than the high quality Japanese stones.
For the price a Norton india stone is hard to beat (and Ethan Becker likes to keep one in his kitchen for quick touch ups)

[Aloha]

Aloha, since you're looking at stones, take a look at Belgian blue and yellow sharpening stones. The blue fits somewhere between 4k and 6k, and there are versions that are combined with a 600 silicon carbide stone. They also tend to run a bit cheaper than the high quality Japanese stones.
For the price a Norton india stone is hard to beat (and Ethan Becker likes to keep one in his kitchen for quick touch ups)

Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.  4k and 6K sound great.