Thoughts on Home Reno shows

[Grant Lamontagne]

Megan watches a lot of home reno shows like Love It or List It and Property Brothers, and watching these things I have noticed a few things that routinely bother me, and I thought I would see if these are things that other people have picked up on.  If you like these kinds of shows, and don't want them to start annoying you too, stop reading now.

1- When they dazzle people with these great renovation plans, they don't seem to take into account that there will always be problems when you start opening up walls, particularly older houses. 

The Property Brothers (for those not familiar with the show, it is twin brothers, one is a realtor, one is a contractor, and they pressure people into buying beat up old homes for less than their house budget, then spend the rest of their budget renovating the place) are the worst for this- rather than show people houses in their budget, they specifically target houses that are run down, beat up, or in some cases, abandoned.  These houses are guaranteed to have serious problems, but if the budget it $250k, they buy the place for $175k and do a $75k renovation, without thinking that the roof will need to be redone, the plumbing and electrical is probably not up to code, there's probably leakage/mold issues etc.  Then, as they discover these problems they supposedly never expected, more and mroe compromises are made on the people's "dream home."

I also think there has to be a conflict of interest there, with the realtor not allowing you to choose your own contractor.  If you buy from one brother, you have to hire the other to do the work.

2- The designer always gets paid. 

In Love It Or List It there is a designer and realtor, the realtor shows people new houses in order to get people to move to a new one, while the designer renovates their place in hopes of getting them to stay.  But, the designer gets paid for every job, while the realtor may be wasting his time if they decide to stay.  The flip side is, I assume he gets commission if they buy a new place, and he gets the listing when they sell the old one, so I guess it evens out if he wins at least 50% of the time.

Of course, this has the same problem as the Property Brothers, where they open walls and find problems, then start whittling away at people's "dream home" but the up shot on this side is, the people already own this home.  On Property Brothers they sucker people into buying a home that needs work, without knowing how much work there needs to be done.  And no one even seems to get a home inspector.  But, the Property Brothers don't give a damn if they house ends up being a turd pile because the budget barely covered repairs, because they both already got paid.

3- Back to Love It Or List It, the realtor starts walking people through homes, knowing there's at least a month before they can decide to buy something, because they have to wait until the end of the renovation to decide whether to.... Love it..... or List It.  Meanwhile, the house the people decide they want to see is still up for sale, and other people can buy it, simply because the people on the show are forced to wait.

4- I realise it is TV and they have to be entertaining, and that is fine, but they seem to show a significant amount of disrespect to the houses they show.  For example, the Property Brothers deliberately show people houses the people can't afford to convince them to buy a beat up old crap hole so the other brother can make his money too.  If I was selling a house and the realtor brought people through with no intention of buying or couldn't afford it, I'd be pretty annoyed.  If you have ever sold a house, you know what a pain it is to get ready for showings, got to uproot the family, pets etc and go and find something to do for a couple of hours.  You do this because there is an implied agreement that they are going to bring legitimate buyers in.  If they bring in people they have no intention of selling your house to, that is remarkably scummy.

Also, they all see things in the house and they make fun of them or throw them around- one of the common things is to pick up a pillow off a bed and hit someone with it.  This is super rude IMO.  That's not your stuff, you aren't buying my pillows, my decor etc, you may buy the house around them, but that is MY stuff.  Get your hands off of it.  And keep your rude comments about MY things to yourself.  As a seller, if I heard they were touching my stuff and everyone was laughing at me, I'd be a lot less friendly in negotiating price, and I may just kill the deal outright, and refuse to accept any future offers from that realtor again, as well as lodging a complaint against them with the realty board. 

I realise they are only doing it for TV (maybe) but it is unprofessional and rude.

That's it for now, but I'm sure there's more I just can't think of right now.

Def

[Whoey]

We watch those and plenty of the genre.

Obviously if you're on the show you work with both brothers. Otherwise it wouldn't be a show.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Absolutely, but then how many Property Brothers episodes start with "We don't want to do a renovation.  We want something move in ready."

That makes me wonder why they are doing this particular show.

Def

[AimlessWanderer]

There is a reason I got rid of my television several years ago. Nice to know I made the right decision, and the crap that's being broadcast is just as tedious as it always was 

[Aloha]

I watch sports and a few shows we've discussed here on MTO.  I have seen the shows mentioned but they all appear to be such BS I had to turn them off.  They seem so scripted and prefabricated with those "actors" on both sides being completely lame.  I was a fan of This Old House   
   

[Grant Lamontagne]

I just can't understand how anyone goes into a renovation thinking that everything will go as planned.  A house isn't a simple structure, it is actually a complicated machine.  By the time you think about all the wiring, HVAC and plumbing, how it's all got to be run, the several layers that go into walls (siding, insulation, exterior and interior panelling etc), the weatherstripping, the vents, animal issues, storage, framing, concrete, stonework.... I mean there is just so much to go wrong, and that's not even counting renovtions done by previous owners that didn't know what they were doing. 

Def

[LoopCutter]

Absolutely, but then how many Property Brothers episodes start with "We don't want to do a renovation.  We want something move in ready."

That makes me wonder why they are doing this particular show.

Def

Yet, those same people want a move in ready home in a neighborhood that they can not afford.

Then they settle for a not so ready, at lower price, then do the renovation with new kitchen and removed walls, tapping the full loan approval amount getting what they want where they want. 

It is a show, you also must ask, "do they really have contractor licenses for every local they film?"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Whoey]

Absolutely, but then how many Property Brothers episodes start with "We don't want to do a renovation.  We want something move in ready."

That makes me wonder why they are doing this particular show.

Def

Yes, also frequently wishlists do not fit the budget they provide. Without the fact that the format of the show is to always show an unaffordable fully ready dream house at the start it's very obvious to us the house doesn't fit the budget provided. Seriously those people are deluded if they think such places are that affordable.

"Love it or List it" is interesting, especially once you start comparing the original, Vancouver and UK versions (which is a hoot all on it's own...) I honestly have no idea how the people in BC can afford such houses, plus seems like the renovations are always way more money for less actual work done. Also, in the designer's defence, they frequently run in to unforeseen issues that mean they need to ask for more money or what happens most of the time - remove some of the scope of work to accommodate those extra costs. Many times the realtor finds a better home to meet the requirements, yet goes well over budget... can you imagine if the designer did that? On the rare occasion that the reno budget does get increased, they usually also increase the purchase budget to be fair.

Another somewhat more realistic show is Flip Men, where they buy foreclosed homes and renovate and flip them for profit. I do wonder if they manage to make the money they claim at times...

In most cases the wife and I use most of the shows for ideas for our own improvements.

[Aloha]

I worked for a custom home builder for several years and yes a home is quite the project.  Renovation is a different animal.  Once wall are taken down all that was hidden is revealed.  Overruns are part of the deal tho some overruns can be managed. 

When the housing marked was really taking off here in SoCal everyone and their momma were home flippers.  I saw plenty of people loose their arses as a result of not knowing what they were doing. 

Cosmetic repairs is one thing, rehabbing is quite another.  Some thought you could simply add a granite counter top and repaint and people would throw money at you.  Others added what I call "lipstick and mascara" to a fiver upper and thing the brinks truck would be backed up to the property and unloaded. 

Flippers or savvy home buyers can do well when buying older or "run down" properties.  Accurately assessing the after repair value is essential.  Having a contractor that can estimate accurately the repair costs is also essential. 

Here in SoCal where a IMO crappy home sells for 1/2 million you better be doing your homework. 

I've seen first hand flippers and properties they've flipped and its not quite as dramatic as TV.  They certainly don't get caught off guard as often as what TV portrays.

 

[jerseydevil]

My stepfather is a fan of those shows, and whenever I'm visiting my parents I end up watching an episode or two. God I can't stand them! It's always "So, we opened up this wall and it turns out that the entire house was about to collapse" or "The electrical system was installed by George Westinghouse himself so it'll all have to be replaced".   In NJ it's a requirement to have a report from a building inspector before any sale or renovation occurs. Obviously not in many other places.......

[Aloha]

I did watch this dude I think from Canada Holmes "Make it right".  This dude would come in after a "contractor" totally messed up a remodel or renovation attempting to fix a problem or add value. 

I could be wrong but he seemed legit.  He was able to access and fix the issues that were originally meant to be fixed and those of the "contractor" hired initially, that ended making things worse. 

[jzmtl]

Never watched any of those but I suspect there's a lot more going on behind the scene, and what you see is completely scripted.

The only reno show I watch is "This old house" and you can catch most of them on youtube, the spoken parts are scripted but at least the reno parts are real.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I did watch this dude I think from Canada Holmes "Make it right".  This dude would come in after a "contractor" totally messed up a remodel or renovation attempting to fix a problem or add value. 

I could be wrong but he seemed legit.  He was able to access and fix the issues that were originally meant to be fixed and those of the "contractor" hired initially, that ended making things worse.

Yeah, Mike Holmes has made a real career out of fixing the corners that other contractors have cut.  But then I've always said that when your business revolves around the stupidity and/or greed of others you will always have a job.

Mind you I don't think there is such thing as a house without problems.  I'll bet you could go into any house and find issues, even ones that have been just built.

As I said, they are complex machines, and it's got to be almost impossible to have two dozen contractors working on the same projet and have it all line up properly.

Def

[Aloha]

I've been in multimillion dollar homes and you are quite correct.  I wouldn't call them issues per se tho there are some coverups it you will.  The more expensive the home the better job at the cover up.  This takes nothing away from the tradesmen and women. 


I really like that dude Mike Holmes.  He seemed legit and in many cases its people trying to save money by hiring the cheapest bloke.   

[derekmac]

A good buddy of mine is an electrician, and he says that you wouldn't believe the corners that are cut on new construction, and how crappy some homes are put together.  He works in multimillion dollar houses, and "regular" houses, and said it doesn't matter which one you go in.

[Grant Lamontagne]

A good buddy of mine is an electrician, and he says that you wouldn't believe the corners that are cut on new construction, and how crappy some homes are put together.  He works in multimillion dollar houses, and "regular" houses, and said it doesn't matter which one you go in.

I have a few electrician friends who say exactly the same thing, usually right before they wantonly smash open my walls with no concern for the poor bugger (me) who has to fix them.

Def

[ironraven]

Absolutely, but then how many Property Brothers episodes start with "We don't want to do a renovation.  We want something move in ready."

They want to be the exception? As much as I like watching the Scott brothers' shtick, I do usually want to slap the people who they have on. I think a lot of people have dangerously unrealistic expectations as to the value of a house, and that is why a lot of new buildings are such utter trash. But I do think that pick the people who are like that intentionally- "I don't want to buy the house, it has popcorn ceilings"... Really?! I'll drop the ceiling myself, bring my friends in with the promise of beer and pizza to hang sheet rock over a weekend. Come on. Am I such a countryboy that there is something I'm completely missing something about modern society where being helpless is not only normal but laudable?

If I was going to go into a rehab, I'd set at least a third of my total post purchase budget aside for the unexpected, but really, you have to be pretty dumb to not look at a house from the 50s or early 60s and not expect to find (1) lead paint, (2) obsolete plumbing and wiring, and praying they don't find (3) asbestos. Or the people who buy a foreclosure auction house that has been abandoned for 4 years and then melt down because it's been looted and stripped or the roof needs to be redone right now, or that bees/raccoons/junkies have been camping in it? Holy smurf, guys, you spent under $20K for a house in an urban area, and you think it is gonig to be some new paint and mow the lawn and you'll be ready to go?

And Mike Holmes was mentioned. I don't think his thing is an act. He does seem to be extremely honorable, a knight errant among contractors. I wish more were like him in every trade and technical profession.

[jzmtl]

Reminds me of something. I replaced the outside GFCI outlet because it broke after exposed to the weather for over 10 years (builder couldn't bother to put a $1 cover on), and found the load and line were connected in reverse, so the regular outlet daisy chained to it never had any GFCI protection. Mentioned to an electrician I know and he just laughed and said "yeah it happens".

Oh and doing crown molding you quickly find out no corner is ever 90 degree, no wall is truly straight, and sometimes even the ceiling isn't flat.

[PTRSAK]

Home reno shows, cooking sports shows, The Batchelor etc, Survivor and in fact most of the "reality" shows are the reason I rarely watch TV.
Complete and utter scripted CRAP.
IMO anyone who believes there is any skerrick of reality in these shows must have a "room temperature IQ".

I watch so little TV that I had to go find my small TV and hook it up to watch the AUSvNZ rugby test match recently because I didn't realise that Windows 10 doesn't support the TV tuner card in my media PC and I upgraded many months ago.
Will need to hook up the set top box to watch free to air on the "big TV" but it hardly seems a pressing matter.

[Chako]

I have to agree with all of the above.

Another show that bothers me...Income Property. Here is a blurb taken from the net...

"Host and renovator Scott McGillivray shows homeowners with cash problems how to create rental suites in their home, as a way to generate additional revenue to defray mortgage costs. In each episode, McGillivray presents his client with two design options. After they pick the one that meets their needs, the host and his team of contractors renovate the space, with the meticulous McGillivray overseeing a sleek and cost-effective makeover."

Note the mention of cash problems. Issue with this show, it takes money to make money, and 9 times out of 10, everyone goes for the more expensive option to try and get that slightly higher rent.

In my neck of the woods, the channel with the majority of these is HGTV. Google it for a long list of similar shows and drivel.

[Tomcat_81]

There is one home-reno show on German TV that is great imho-
 
Roughly outlined, people can report families who are in serious trouble with their homes; often, one parent has passed away, got sick or other strokes of fate hit the family. Often, the homes are nothing more than half-built or completely run-down because the owners couldn't cope any more.

What the team of the show does is talk to the owners about their needs, then the owners get a time-out, a short holiday (and sometimes also psychological or therapeutical help).

Then, architects, builders and designers analyze what can be done for the building, and it's never just patching or painting, even though they don't tackle homes with too serious issues (irreparably damaged roof, foundation, statics). They really go into depths, tackling house problems I'd consider as serious, from plumbing to electricity. The builders and designers are a great team and very versatile.

At the end, the owners will be invited back into their new old home. Materials and hours get paid for by the companies whose materials and tools get used and shown in the show.
Good approach I'd say!
Tomcat

[ToolJoe]

I don't like watching those shows because then the honey do list gets more stuff tacked on by mrs. TJ. 


I like American Pickers. Sorting through junk in houses/barns/properties wherever. Sign me up. 

[ironraven]

I like American Pickers. Sorting through junk in houses/barns/properties wherever. Sign me up. 

By that logic, the FAA and my landlord are going to be annoyed when I start commuting with a starfighter every morning.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The realtor on this show looks like Patty the Daytime Hooker.

I probably shouldn't judge her by the way she looks (especially with a face like mine! ) but if she was my realtor I'm not sure I could take her seriously because of it.

Def

[Whoey]

listings with benefits? 

[derekmac]

listings with benefits?