Leatherman Style PS Scissor Failure....

[AimlessWanderer]

.... a theory...

This might be a complete red herring, but I've noticed something, and thought I'd throw it out for debate.

The Style PS is a tool I want to like, but the scissor spring has crapped out on me twice (I can't be bothered sending it back any more) and the protrusion on the 'biner is too easily caught and disengaged from whatever it's clipped to. I was looking at the tool with a view to modding it, and noticed what I thought might be a contributing factor as to why the scissor spring keeps failing.

I've attached three pics. The first is with the tool just laid flat, and the second is the tool held lightly for a closer view. Try to focus on where the scissor tips are within the tool. The third pic is with a little pressure applied to the outside of the scissors, as might happen when using the 'biner as a bottle opener, or using the file tip as a screwdriver. The scissors are pushed inwards, further stressing the scissor spring (absent on mine, as mentioned above).

Dks and others have hypothesized that the failures come from the spring being stowed under tension, but this movement seems like it would stress the spring far more .... but as mine is currently incomplete, I can't be certain if this theory has merit on a complete assembly.

Reckon this might be a potential cause, or is mine only doing this because the spring is already gone?

[theonew]

Something I remember reading but never bothered to corroborate said something like a spring's wear is primarily from movement, staying in a compressed or decompressed state has little effect on it's lifespan. So accepting that, it would appear that the spring on the PS is getting "exercised" when not in use, thereby wearing it out faster. The spring on my PS is broken, as it is on 3 other PS4s I have, so I can't say how it would function if it was intact. On the PS4 there doesn't seem to be that kind of movement which leads me to believe LM is just incapable of building a reasonably long lasting spring. Kind of a shame but since I don't use the scissors very often I've learned to live with them not being sprung.

[AimlessWanderer]

Good point about the PS4, I don't have one to look at. So what you're saying is that even if this was overstressing the scissor spring, it would most likely break anyway ... though maybe not as fast? Possibly? 

Well if I do mod this and get in into circulation somehow, it certainly won't be with those scissors on it 

[theonew]

Possibly not as fast but probably just a week or so longer
I can't imagine how many returns LM must get over this issue but apparently it isn't enough for them to take corrective action

[kottskrapa]

I have not measured or taken a good look as I don't have both LM PS or Victorinox classic SD with me today but would it be possible to put a classic SD scissor in the PS?

It's not failure if you learn something from it

[AimlessWanderer]

Not a question I can answer.  I know they have different pivot sizes, but I don't know if there would be enough meat on it to reshape the tang once it's drilled out.

[Steinar]

Something I remember reading but never bothered to corroborate said something like a spring's wear is primarily from movement, staying in a compressed or decompressed state has little effect on it's lifespan. [...]

That's what a friend of mine with a PhD in steel tells me, at least. I simply suppose he should know.

[AimlessWanderer]

Something I remember reading but never bothered to corroborate said something like a spring's wear is primarily from movement, staying in a compressed or decompressed state has little effect on it's lifespan. [...]

That's what a friend of mine with a PhD in steel tells me, at least. I simply suppose he should know.

I suppose it could soften it in time, but most springs fail due to fatigue, which is from the flexing  If you take a spring past it's elastic limit you will significantly shorten it's lifespan though, which was my theory with this spring.

[Steinar]

Where the elastic limit is, is hard to tell, though. “Everybody” says you shouldn't open the tools in a SAK in both ends simultaneously, while Vic says they have adjusted the steel/heat treatment so you can't push the springs outside the elastic zone without breaking the knife. (I.e. opening arbitrary tools is still within elastic limits.) What Leatherman's design parameters are, is still an open question in this thread. The theory seems plausible enough, but whether it is correct or not all depends on the heat treatment.   

[theonew]

Sorry Al, I wasn't reading your theory correctly in your first post.  Nevertheless given the lack of "over-travel" in the PS4 and the consistent spring failures, I tend to think the elastic limit for LM scissor springs is perhaps any movement whatsoever

[AimlessWanderer]

   Slight design flaw there me thinks 

[theonew]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

[AimlessWanderer]

I'm still waiting for the Juice with the sharpened awl, functional can opener, straight saw, properly made scissors and safe flat blade drivers .... 

[theonew]

To be fair: while the awl is kind of crappy as it comes, it is no worse than the Wenger awl. I haven't noticed any problem with the saw and in fact it is, in my estimation, the most efficient saw on any multitool I own. The scissors, while not beautifully curved against each other, seem to function adequately if not precisely. Inability to open the flat blade drivers without injury I see as more of a user error type of thing Which leaves us with the dysfunctional can opener, which is easily remedied in about 10 minutes using a sharpening stone.

Room for improvement? Most definitely. But not distinctly a design, engineering or manufacturing flaw like the scissors spring.


 

[Faddy Daddy]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

[theonew]

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

 

As far as I'm concerned scissors are for girls. I only have them around for when my wife needs to use them 
 

[Faddy Daddy]

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

 

As far as I'm concerned scissors are for girls. I only have them around for when my wife needs to use them 
 

Ha ha   I would agree with you if we were talking exclusively about the tiny little scissors, such as on the Style PS or perhaps even the Squirt PS4 (though I believe these have a different spring mechanism?), or heck, even the very small SAKs for that matter. But, the scissors on the Micra or Style CS are pretty robust, certainly comparable to larger SAK scissors (maybe not in precision but certainly durability or being able to apply force).
I had a job where I was continuously clipping the large sized wire ties and carried a Micra for just that. I got so used to them, I even used them for opening boxes and such - I'd just open em up and drag them through without even using scissor action. Heck, I used to even just keep them closed but dragging them backwards was enough to tear through boxing tape etc - I put them through hell but the always held up until TSA that is, hehe. 

[theonew]

If cutting larger cable ties occupied even a small portion of my day, I agree, the Micra (or Style CS) hits the sweet spot

[AimlessWanderer]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

I'm seriously considering slaughtering a Micra to get the parts to upgrade the Style PS  The tip of the file on the PS is pretty much the same as the Micra's Phillips, but replacing the scissors with the flat driver and the combo tool might make it a damn good companion tool for a Vic Classic

[Faddy Daddy]

I'm seriously considering slaughtering a Micra to get the parts to upgrade the Style PS  The tip of the file on the PS is pretty much the same as the Micra's Phillips, but replacing the scissors with the flat driver and the combo tool might make it a damn good companion tool for a Vic Classic

That does sound like a rather neat idea, of course you would loose the scissors and you wouldn't have a blade. But, as you state, the classic would have all your cutting needs covered ... (albeit on a small level). Of course if you just carried the Micra you'd have everything covered save the small pliers.
So many options, so little time 

Oh and Theonew, you bet, as much as I'm appreciating the precision of SAK scissors now a days, back when I needed them for that particular task, the Micra was hard to beat, they will always hold a special place for me because of that.

[hiraethus]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

I'm seriously considering slaughtering a Micra to get the parts to upgrade the Style PS  The tip of the file on the PS is pretty much the same as the Micra's Phillips, but replacing the scissors with the flat driver and the combo tool might make it a damn good companion tool for a Vic Classic

I tried a while back to get some Micra tools in a CS (probably replacing the CS's blade with the Micra cap lifter/small flat driver) but the pivots were different.  I think ... maybe.  I definitely gave up for some reason.

[AimlessWanderer]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

I'm seriously considering slaughtering a Micra to get the parts to upgrade the Style PS  The tip of the file on the PS is pretty much the same as the Micra's Phillips, but replacing the scissors with the flat driver and the combo tool might make it a damn good companion tool for a Vic Classic

I tried a while back to get some Micra tools in a CS (probably replacing the CS's blade with the Micra cap lifter/small flat driver) but the pivots were different.  I think ... maybe.  I definitely gave up for some reason.

Hmmm I'll keep considering other, options then 

[pfrsantos]

It could be that they are waiting (after ten years) to release the "new and improved" version where the scissors spring doesn't break in a week
 

Haven't you guys heard? The "new and Improved" version came out quite some time ago. It's called the Style CS, either that or the Micra

I'm seriously considering slaughtering a Micra to get the parts to upgrade the Style PS  The tip of the file on the PS is pretty much the same as the Micra's Phillips, but replacing the scissors with the flat driver and the combo tool might make it a damn good companion tool for a Vic Classic

I tried a while back to get some Micra tools in a CS (probably replacing the CS's blade with the Micra cap lifter/small flat driver) but the pivots were different.  I think ... maybe.  I definitely gave up for some reason.

Hmmm I'll keep considering other, options then 

I had the same problem. Without almost any use, one day I opened up the scissors and the spring was broken. I got it fixed and (so far) it's holding up. Maybe it is not a bad idea to leave the scissors open overnight from time to time, to ease the tension.

One of the reasons I carry a Midnite Manager is for the scissors. If I could trust the Style PS completely, I'd probably carry it instead. I would gain pliers in my EDC. I would have to do something about the pen/light but these are already backups, so not a big problem.

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Great! I had my EDC all figured out and now you messed it all up!
 

Thanks a lot!
 

[theonew]

Seriously if the scissors spring breaks you can still use the scissors, they aren't completely rendered useless, just not quite as convenient. If you can't easily trim the errant thread on your taffeta house dress I don't see an immediate survival situation ensuing

Also the spring on Vic scissors do routinely break without warning but it is usually after several years of use.

[AimlessWanderer]

Seriously if the scissors spring breaks you can still use the scissors, they aren't completely rendered useless, just not quite as convenient. If you can't easily trim the errant thread on your taffeta house dress I don't see an immediate survival situation ensuing

Also the spring on Vic scissors do routinely break without warning but it is usually after several years of use.

Totally agree. The scissors are still capable of single snip solutions, but if paired with a keyring sized Swiss knife, I would reach for the knife for the scissors every time. This frees me up to mod it, and replace the scissors with other tools. I just haven't decided what yet  There's also the issue of the biner coming detached too easily

[theonew]

Vic scissors are without a doubt the gold standard of scissors. Always a good, clean cut.
How about a package opener from a Dime? My next move is to see if I can get one to fit in a SOG CrossGrip

[pfrsantos]

Like I said, new EDC today. Will carry it for awhile, see how it works for me. First impressions: slimmer, less bulk.

[theonew]

Can we see the knife in that pic 

[pfrsantos]

Can we see the knife in that pic 

No, you can't, silly! It's inside the pouch!
 

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I can post a pic of the knife, though...

 

[pfrsantos]

Here, try with these: