Leatherman Surge scissors spring failure

[Top-Gear-24]

A couple of days ago I noticed that the scissors on my stainless Surge had no spring action anymore.  For some reason the spring has no tension, even though the scissors lock firmly into place.  I've tried to tighten the torx screws a bit, I've loosened the torx screws to align the scissors with the spring (using my BO Surge as example), but nothing worked. 

I don't think that something is broken since every once in a while (like one in a thousand) the spring will have tension and the scissors work just fine, but the other 999 times they wont ... 

I've tried searching youtube for some assembly videos of the Surge, but I only found one assembly video of a Wingman (which seems to have roughly the same scissors/spring setup as the Surge), and when the video poster is assembling the scissors it looks as if he's alinging the scissors and spring in the open and closed position while tightening the torx screws, but he does not speak in his video, and he even takes the Wingman out of the picture while working on the scissors, so no help there ...

I've been looking at the working scissors on my BO Surge to see how the spring gets its tension, but I can't figure it out  .

Anyone here who can help me with this ?

[SteveC]

Let me take a look at mine.

[SteveC]

The spring gets tension by being in the locked position. There is a flat spot on the back of the spring that pushes on the frame for tension. Is the liner lock worn or not fully engaging ? 

[Top-Gear-24]

Thanks for the reply Steve  .

The liner lock seems to work just fine, it locks the scissors and I need to push it in before I can close them again.  I noticed the flat spot on the spring that pushes on the frame (while looking at my BO Surge's working scissors), but on my stainless steel the spring just "slides" up between the torx screw and the locked scissors at the pivot point (hope this makes sense  ).  That's why I tried to tighten the torx screws first, I thought they may have been too loose, since they allowed the spring to move, but I've tightened them to the point that I can't even open the knife on the opposite site, so it must be something else.

I've noticed that I can move the spring up and down quite a bit, even when the liner lock is engaged.  I can move the spring on my BO Surge also, but once the scissors lock on that one, the spring also locks and you can't move it anymore.

It's weird ...

[SteveC]

I wonder if the pivot hole in the spring has gotten worn and developed too much play in it 

[AimlessWanderer]

I wonder if the pivot hole in the spring has gotten worn and developed too much play in it 

That was my thought too, but I really don't see why it would ...

[captain spaulding]

Just try to get oil under the spring. I have had this problem before on another tool and it was just lack of oil. Sounds to good to be true but if the spring cannot move freely there will be no tention.

[Top-Gear-24]

I wonder if the pivot hole in the spring has gotten worn and developed too much play in it 

That was my thought too, but I really don't see why it would ...

This Surge is only very mildly used, I think I've only used the scissors like 3 or 4 times, and only on paper, not on anything special.  I've carried my BO Surge more than the stainless one actually.

[Top-Gear-24]

Just try to get oil under the spring. I have had this problem before on another tool and it was just lack of oil. Sounds to good to be true but if the spring cannot move freely there will be no tention.

That was the first thing I thought of, I used some Nano-Oil on it, but sadly it didn't help ...

It's weird since the spring seems to move too much.  Like I said, I can move the spring on my BO Surge also, even when the scissors are almost fully opened (right before where the lock engages), but once locked, the spring is held firmly into place.  But this is not the case on my stainless Surge.

Thanks for trying to help me out guys, keep the ideas coming  .

[Top-Gear-24]

I found this video on youtube (sadly not in a language that I understand ...); but around 6.38 in the video it shows the scissors and spring when they are disassembled.  And you can see two small dots on the spring, one fits into a round whole on the scissors and can be seen on the inside while opening the scissors, and looks like the other needs to fit into a groove on the scissors part, this is where the spring gets its tension I guess.  I think my problem has to be with that second dot and the groove it needs to fit in. 

Maybe I should unscrew the torx all the way, so I can remove the scissors and spring to see if maybe the second dot is worn, or has broken of, but I'm affraid that I can't get it back together afterwords ... (I'm not very skilled in multitool assembly  ).

Here's the video:

[Top-Gear-24]

I just loosend the torx screws enough so I could inspect the two "dots" on the spring, and as I feared, the dot that is supposed to fit in the groove of the scissors is gone, so I've located the problem.

Looks like my options are:

A:

Contact the Belgian distributor to get it replaced under warranty, but I've bought this tool on a Dutch site (also official Leatherman dealer), and the Belgian distributor needs a proof of purchase to see if the tool is bought through one of their dealers, and since it's not, I need to pay about 15 Euro "administration costs" and postage to get it replaced.   Just to be clear, If I want to buy a Surge through one of the official Belgian Leatherman Dealers, it would cost me around 190 Euro, I've bought mine from a Dutch dealer for 119 Euro, so even after paying 15 Euro "administration costs" I'm still better of this way.

B:

Find a Surge scissors spring and do the repair myself

C:

Contact Leatherman U.S.A. to explain the problem and see if maybe they would send me a new spring (maybe a long shot ...)

D:

Go to a local outdoorshop in the next town (and official Leatherman dealer) where I've bought quite a lot of tools these last couple of years (only last month I bought two Signals there, but I did not buy this Surge there), and see if they can get it replaced from the Belgian distributor.

E.

Contact the Dutch site, or the Dutch Leatherman distributor to see if they are willing to help.


What do you guys think I should do ?

Anyone here who has a Surge scissors spring lying around, or who can get his hands on one ... 

Edit: Added option E  .

[AimlessWanderer]

Having to pay 15 notes for something that's only been used three or four times sucks. Can you get it done through the Dutch warranty people, whoever they are?

[Top-Gear-24]

Having to pay 15 notes for something that's only been used three or four times sucks. Can you get it done through the Dutch warranty people, whoever they are?

Hadn't thought of that  .

Maybe I should add this as option E.

[SteveC]

Sounds like option E would be the way to go.

 And another blow to Surge   

[Syncop8r]

I would try option C first, but use the contact address of a willing fellow US-based MTO member. I remember someone here lost the spring from their bit holder not long ago and LM sent one out to them.
It sounds like distributers are not as helpful as LM itself.

You could try option B depending on the cost (try Loki?).

I'm just looking at it now, so the problem is that the spring rotates at the pivot instead of being fixed (due to the key or whatever it's called being worn)?

[hiraethus]

E.  Always go back to the retailer first.  I believe the EU consumer rights directive means that the retailer must repair or replace the faulty item, regardless of where in the EU they are relative to you.  See here: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

[Top-Gear-24]

Just send an e-mail to the Dutch site where I bought my Surge, since it can take a few days for them to react I thought I'd send the e-mail as quick as possible.  Replacing the spring myself would be the easiest way in my opinion, I'll contact Loki-mobile one of these days (after I've heard fomr the Dutch site) to see if he has a Surge scissors spring and how much that would cost me (I fear  shipping cost could be the biggest problem).

Maybe I'll pay a visit to the local outdoorshop tomorrow, they know me over there and who knows, maybe they are willing to fix it for me since they know what I've bought there over the years.  And since they are probably the biggest Leatherman sellers in Belgium I'm pretty sure they can get things done from the Belgian Distributor.  (It's the same store where I had Tim Leatherman engrave some of my tools  ).

[Top-Gear-24]

I would try option C first, but use the contact address of a willing fellow US-based MTO member. I remember someone here lost the spring from their bit holder not long ago and LM sent one out to them.
It sounds like distributers are not as helpful as LM itself.

You could try option B depending on the cost (try Loki?).

I'm just looking at it now, so the problem is that the spring rotates at the pivot instead of being fixed (due to the key or whatever it's called being worn)?

Yep, the spring moves up and down and left to right.  There are two small metal stubs or dots (I don't know how you say it) on the spring, near the pivot hole.  One fits in a hole on the scissors leg  (you can see this hole on the inside, while you open the scissors, not when they are fully open), and can move left to right, up and down in this hole, while the other slides in a groove on the edge of the scissors pivot hole, this last one is gone, so the spring is only held into place by the one metal stub/dot that fits in the round hole, that's why it can move around and why there's no more tension on it.

Wish I could explain this in Dutch, this is quite difficult in English ... so my apologies if I'm not making any sense ... 

[SteveC]

You explained it quite clearly 

[Top-Gear-24]

You explained it quite clearly 

Thanks mate  .

And thanks for the help you guys, I really appreciate it  .

[Syncop8r]

You explained it quite clearly 

+1

[Top-Gear-24]

An update on the situation:

I contacted the Dutch internet site (where I bought my Surge) via e-mail, explained the problem, and the next day they send me an e-mail with a link to a return form that I had to print out and fill in.  It did say that I needed to send the tool and all the accessories (box, sheath, removable file etc ...) along with it.  Which is a bit weird since the warranty procedure on Leatherman U.S.A. clearly states "Do not ship us your sheath or accessories" ... 

I think maybe that's because in the U.S.A they fix broken tools and give you your tool (or another refurbished tool) back, while over here I suspect they only give a complete new boxed tool in return.

I also explained that I collect multitools, and that this one had been in the collection most of the time, and only a few times on the belt, the only tool I've used on this Surge was the scissors, and only like two times, on regular paper ...  But I'm pretty sure they will see this with their own eyes, the tool looks brand new, and the Leather sheath also looked (and even smelled) brand new (no signs of wear whatsoever).

Anyway, I hope I can drop it off at the post-office tomorrow.

I'll keep you guys informed when I get news  .

Hoping for a good outcome ... 

[Syncop8r]

I think maybe that's because in the U.S.A they fix broken tools and give you your tool (or another refurbished tool) back, while over here I suspect they only give a complete new boxed tool in return.

That makes sense.

I also explained that I collect multitools, and that this one had been in the collection most of the time, and only a few times on the belt, the only tool I've used on this Surge was the scissors, and only like two times, on regular paper ...

Best you don't use any of the other tools then. 

[Poncho65]

Sorry to hear this TG Hope that they get you sorted and you receive a new Surge  

[SteveC]

An update on the situation:

I contacted the Dutch internet site (where I bought my Surge) via e-mail, explained the problem, and the next day they send me an e-mail with a link to a return form that I had to print out and fill in.  It did say that I needed to send the tool and all the accessories (box, sheath, removable file etc ...) along with it.  Which is a bit weird since the warranty procedure on Leatherman U.S.A. clearly states "Do not ship us your sheath or accessories" ... 

I think maybe that's because in the U.S.A they fix broken tools and give you your tool (or another refurbished tool) back, while over here I suspect they only give a complete new boxed tool in return.

I also explained that I collect multitools, and that this one had been in the collection most of the time, and only a few times on the belt, the only tool I've used on this Surge was the scissors, and only like two times, on regular paper ...  But I'm pretty sure they will see this with their own eyes, the tool looks brand new, and the Leather sheath also looked (and even smelled) brand new (no signs of wear whatsoever).

Anyway, I hope I can drop it off at the post-office tomorrow.

I'll keep you guys informed when I get news .

Hoping for a good outcome ... 

Still waiting for a update   

[Poncho65]

Come on Steve, it's only been a little over a year

 

[Syncop8r]

We should definitely have had an update by now then.
 

[SteveC]

Come on Steve, it's only been a little over a year

 

Sorry, I'll try to be more patient next time   


 

[Wspeed]

You are very inpatient Steve 

[Top-Gear-24]

Okay okay, you made your point clear ... 

Let's just say that the warranty procedure didn't go as smoothly as planned.

Here we go, like I told you guys in my last post here, I was going to send back the Surge to the Dutch webshop where I got it from.  After a couple of days, they told me I would get back another Surge, and some days later I received an e-mail from them saying the package was handed over to the postal services, and it had a tracking code.

So I checked the tracking code at work and saw that it had been delivered, but when I got home, there was no package, went to all the neighbours, no package ... Checked the tracking code again and it was then that I noticed they had my address wrong, that is they had the housenumber wrong to be more precise (I've ordered stuff from them like 10 to 15 times in the past and they never had the wrong housenumber, but now they did).

Put on my coat and headed out on foot to search for the number they send my Surge to, and a mile from my door found the house, knocked on the door and a police officer opened it, I asked him if maybe they got a package that wasn't addressed to them and the man told me that his wife had accepted it, without even having to sign for it.  So, I was very lucky that it got in the hands of honest people, others could've said they had nothing and ended up with a free Surge.  But I don't like the fact that a package with the word "Knife" on the box ends up at a police officers' house, I'm allowed to own a Surge in Belgium, but  I do prefer to keep my hobby "low profile", since it only takes one cop who's having a bad day to ruin my day (worst case scenario that is).

Anyway, took the package home and opened it up, inside was a Leatherman box containing a leather sheath, the little pocket with the file in it, the paperwork and a Surge.  I recognized the box, sheath and the other stuff, since it was all the stuff I send to them along with my broken Surge (I mean, the exact same sheath and box, that previously belonged to me).  The letter that came with it said, quite rude, that I should not send all of this stuff along when I send in a tool for warranty, even though their warranty form said that the tool should be send to them along with as much of the original accessoires and packaging as possible ... 

And then I took the Surge out of the box ...

I immediately noticed that it had been polished in an attempt to remove some scratching, there were still some scratches left, and when I checked the date code it turned out to be quite a bit older than the one I send in, the handles were a bit misaligned and the knife had been re-sharpened to the point that it was hollowed out a bit.  I printed out another warranty form, filled it in and put the Surge (the tool alone, nothing else) back in the box, sealed it and went back to the post office.  And once again I had to pay around 18€ "shipping" costs (just like the first time).

I wrote on the warranty form that my tool was brand new, no signs of use whatsoever, and that I wouldn't accept a "refurbished" tool, I wanted a new one.  I also told them that they put the wrong housenumber on this package, and gave them my address to make sure they got it right next time.

Days past and then I got an e-mail saying that, normally they don't do this, but they decided to send me a brand new tool.  A bit later I got an e-mail with tracking code so I was happy.

Checked the tracking code at work ... said package was refused by recipient and send back to the sender ...    Checked the address and yes, they used the same, wrong housenumber like they did the previous time ... 

So back home, send an e-mail, explained the problem (again).  And got a return e-mail saying they would send me another Surge, to the correct address this time.

And the next day I opened the package to find a Leatherman box with a brand new Surge (date codes from only one month before I got it), Leather sheath, little pocket with file and all the paperworks.  Even though I only send out the tool the second time, so at least I got a free set of Surge accessoires out of all the e-mailing and sleepless nights ...

Being a bit frustrated by all of this I put the Surge in the collection and tried to forget this experience (hence why I didn't post an update here  ).  And it took me a couple of months before I took it out again and decided to use it as my EDC.

But I haven't ordered from that site again since then.  I'm sure I'll order from them again in the future, since there are only like three online shops around here who have reasonable prices, but all the Leatherman tools I bought since then came from elsewhere (a Crunch from the other site), a Crunch from a local shop (at -50% discount), a BO Wave + from the third site, and two Wave +'s from the local outdoorshop (since the + models cost the same at local shops as they do at the online shops).  And I shifted my focus a bit to the "older" models, so I got a Mini from CeHo here (thanks CeHo  ), and two brandnew Sideclips with boxes and paperwork from a local collector.

So, how's that for an update ? .