Too Sharp?

[pomsbz]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason. 

[gerleatherberman]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason.

Aloha, Pablo, and Peacant.
I present evidence that my statement earlier remains valid. 

[pomsbz]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason.

Aloha, Pablo, and Peacant.
I present evidence that my statement earlier remains valid. 

I would hardly call my statement 'trash talk'. I have a personal opinion, one based on my own experience and influencing my own purchasing decisions which has been aired for the very first time here on the forum.

[gerleatherberman]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason.

Aloha, Pablo, and Peacant.
I present evidence that my statement earlier remains valid. 

I would hardly call my statement 'trash talk'. I have a personal opinion, one based on my own experience and influencing my own purchasing decisions which has been aired for the very first time here on the forum.

I was being more cheeky than serious. So no offense was intended.  You are stating your preference for the first time, but it is a preference that has been a common theme among some charge/wave/skeletool users on the forum from my personal observations.
I never stated EVERY or MOST users have said 420HC was a poor steel, but that a 'lot' of users say it is a poor blade steel. For the record, a 'lot' is purely subjective.

No offense was ever intended to anyone. I was just mentioning I was glad to see someone say something really great about 420HC. And, I stepping out of this thread and not looking back, before I offend anyone else unintentionally. Bye.

[pomsbz]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason.

Aloha, Pablo, and Peacant.
I present evidence that my statement earlier remains valid. 

I would hardly call my statement 'trash talk'. I have a personal opinion, one based on my own experience and influencing my own purchasing decisions which has been aired for the very first time here on the forum.

I was being more cheeky than serious. So no offense was intended.  You are stating your preference for the first time, but it is a preference that has been a common theme among some charge/wave/skeletool users on the forum from my personal observations.
I never stated EVERY or MOST users have said 420HC was a poor steel, but that a 'lot' of users say it is a poor blade steel. For the record, a 'lot' is purely subjective.

No offense was ever intended to anyone. I was just mentioning I was glad to see someone say something really great about 420HC. And, I stepping out of this thread and not looking back, before I offend anyone else unintentionally. Bye.

Cool, just didn't want to be seen as trash talking. 

[Aloha]

I dislike 420hc so much that I upgraded the blade in my skeletool just to get 154cm and made sure to buy a Charge AL rather than the Wave for the same reason.

Aloha, Pablo, and Peacant.
I present evidence that my statement earlier remains valid. 

 

What I find interesting is how some including myself move thru steels.  I may have posted about why or how some people begin with certain steel and move to super steels.  I'm certainly "one of those people" however I personally haven't bashed any steels.  I can see now how anyone would have this perspective especially when looking at the Wave/Charge series. 

When the discussion on which MT to get comes up between the Wave and Charge MTs inevitably the talk of blade steel is brought up.  Titanium is part of that talk as well but certainly the S30V or 154CM blades are a main focus. 

I would tend to agree with what you wrote here but...... 

 

Perhaps. OR. Everytime a Wave vs. Charge thread comes up, the biggest thing is how much better the Charge is, because of s30v plain blade. My argument is that 420hc is still a fine steel for blades and s30v is not worth the extra $80! My mind may be poisoned beyond reproach on the subject, because of that. My apologies. I'll stand corrected for the time being.

Many of us fully agree with you about the extra money for the TTi.  I've almost exclusively said as much.  Whats interesting is over time I've had a slight change to my thoughts.  While I still believe the Wave is the best bang for the buck vs the TTi or AL for those who prefer a "better" steel maybe not.  Let me give you an example.  I don't always carry a dedicated blade.  I use my MT blade as my go to blade.  Lots of users do the same so a nicer steel makes sense and the additional cost does too.  I'd probably get a Delica and Wave for the same price as a TTi tho. 

I got my TTi pretty cheap and carried it early on over my Wave.  It didn't last long tho and went back to my Wave.  I recently began to carry my TTi and I can say I love it.  Yes part in due to the blade steel and part cause I just dig the Ti scales.  If I'm being honest I also have carried my Skeletool CX over a regular Skeletool because the blade steel. 

Maybe over time I've grown more fond of "super steels" vs 420HC .  Probably.  I do like VG10 but that being said I have made comments about wanting a nicer steel on my Delica.  I'm probably making your view stronger and thats ok.  What I'm trying to illustrate is while I personally am preferring these steels to 420HC its not a knock against 420HC.  At least not trying to do so. 

What I said earlier was its interesting how even me preferring certain steels will have no qualm carrying a SAK.  I hope I'm not a steel snob tho maybe slowly I am becoming one. 

All views are important to this site.  If you feel theres any negative talk about 420HC its your right to speak up in favor of it.  I never wanted to "come at you" or have it appear that way.  I just hadn't looked at any conversation I've read as negative regarding 420HC.  I can certainly see how perception ( my own ) could be limited.

   

[pfrsantos]

There's no such thing as too sharp.

 

[Lynn LeFey]

When I was just out of high school, I had a job at a cider factory. One day, I was cutting the binding straps on a palate of cardboard boxes, and my little slip joint buck knife was kind of dull. I heaved and cut through the strap, but also took most of the knuckle off the ring finger of my opposing hand.

Since then, I have tried hard to keep my knives sharp.

My level of 'sharp' is pull cutting receipt paper smoothly.

Beyond that, FOR ME, is a waste of my time. Although a few times recently, I've stropped to go beyond that, but just to see if I could.

As for what KIND of steel I like. I have to admit, 100%, for ease of sharpening, and holding an edge well, I think Victorinox blades are just about in the perfect spot. Again, just my taste. But, when you can do a few strokes on either side of a blade on ceramic rods and BOOM, back to super sharp... That's hard to beat, IMO.

[Old Boy]

Amen. Growing up in the Philippines I learned to appreciate blades I can sharpen very quickly using a piece of rock lying on the dirt.

[Gerhard Gerber]

For somebody that grew up with knives you couldn't sharpen in a house where nobody knew how to sharpen.......I've developed rather strong feelings and opinions on the matter 

To be clear, I don't think I'm "normal"  (same as most of you)

To illustrate, a little something that happened recently......

I was contacted by a family friend, he was paralyzed waist down at a young age and the use of his hands were also affected.  He wanted me to make him a knife in a push dagger style that would enable him to better hold on.

From the examples he sent I assumed he wanted something tacticool and pimped out, but no, he wanted a user, and specifically he wanted something that would allow him to slaughter 2 or 3 bucks on the farm without sharpening.....

Now I know, with the steels I use and the heat treat I do, that is simply not possible.  My first instinct was to give him a lecture on steels, one's expectations of said steels and sharpening......and realised I would be wasting me time.

Second idea was to commission and Elmax blade from my teacher and then design and fit a handle that would allow him to hold on......

THEN I realised what's he going to do when that Elmax goes dull, and he doesn't have the equipment or the knowledge to sharpen that.


So no more long-windedness........I view a good knife as something you can sharpen on a rock if needs be.

I believe a knife must be a sharp as it can be, but if you use it, it will be sharp enough for period-X, X being defined by the steel type & grind.  Then you must know how to sharpen it   

[ThePeacent]

the thing is I can hardly appreciate high tier steels such as the ELMAX on the ZT that Nix gifted me. It's still cutting and shaving like when I got it but that's probably because I haven't used it at work. 



When I am working all I cut are plants, fertilizer bags, twigs, roots, thorns, gravel filled soils, etc.
Most of these have ceramics, sand and dirt on them so I favor a steel ike H1, 8Cr13MoV, 420HC or AUS8 because whenever I dent or roll them (unfortunately frequent thing to happen cutting that stuff) it's less than a minute to repair the damage and bring them back to sharp, which I can do at any pause time, and I also can use a simple stone, ceramic tile, or Silicon rocks we have lying around everywhere to use on our pruners   



something I wouldn't really be able to do easily with ELMAX, S90V or Vanax

[Old Boy]

To illustrate, a little something that happened recently......

I was contacted by a family friend, he was paralyzed waist down at a young age and the use of his hands were also affected.  He wanted me to make him a knife in a push dagger style that would enable him to better hold on.

From the examples he sent I assumed he wanted something tacticool and pimped out, but no, he wanted a user, and specifically he wanted something that would allow him to slaughter 2 or 3 bucks on the farm without sharpening.....

Now I know, with the steels I use and the heat treat I do, that is simply not possible.  My first instinct was to give him a lecture on steels, one's expectations of said steels and sharpening......and realised I would be wasting me time.

Second idea was to commission and Elmax blade from my teacher and then design and fit a handle that would allow him to hold on......

THEN I realised what's he going to do when that Elmax goes dull, and he doesn't have the equipment or the knowledge to sharpen that.

Great stuff! Just curious, how did you end up solving that request? Got any pics?

[Old Boy]

the thing is I can hardly appreciate high tier steels such as the ELMAX on the ZT that Nix gifted me. It's still cutting and shaving like when I got it but that's probably because I haven't used it at work. 

(Image removed from quote.)

When I am working all I cut are plants, fertilizer bags, twigs, roots, thorns, gravel filled soils, etc.
Most of these have ceramics, sand and dirt on them so I favor a steel ike H1, 8Cr13MoV, 420HC or AUS8 because whenever I dent or roll them (unfortunately frequent thing to happen cutting that stuff) it's less than a minute to repair the damage and bring them back to sharp, which I can do at any pause time, and I also can use a simple stone, ceramic tile, or Silicon rocks we have lying around everywhere to use on our pruners   

(Image removed from quote.)

something I wouldn't really be able to do easily with ELMAX, S90V or Vanax

👍 always thought a scratched blade and a used handle looked cooler than a brand new knife. If you don’t mind me saying that.
My goal is to eventually after so many years have a blade that has become pencil size due to frequent use and sharpening. 🤣

[pomsbz]

the thing is I can hardly appreciate high tier steels such as the ELMAX on the ZT that Nix gifted me. It's still cutting and shaving like when I got it but that's probably because I haven't used it at work. 

(Image removed from quote.)

When I am working all I cut are plants, fertilizer bags, twigs, roots, thorns, gravel filled soils, etc.
Most of these have ceramics, sand and dirt on them so I favor a steel ike H1, 8Cr13MoV, 420HC or AUS8 because whenever I dent or roll them (unfortunately frequent thing to happen cutting that stuff) it's less than a minute to repair the damage and bring them back to sharp, which I can do at any pause time, and I also can use a simple stone, ceramic tile, or Silicon rocks we have lying around everywhere to use on our pruners   

(Image removed from quote.)

something I wouldn't really be able to do easily with ELMAX, S90V or Vanax

On the other hand you might have to try hard to dent or roll the super steels and then not need to repair them on site?

[ThePeacent]

the thing is I can hardly appreciate high tier steels such as the ELMAX on the ZT that Nix gifted me. It's still cutting and shaving like when I got it but that's probably because I haven't used it at work. 

(Image removed from quote.)

When I am working all I cut are plants, fertilizer bags, twigs, roots, thorns, gravel filled soils, etc.
Most of these have ceramics, sand and dirt on them so I favor a steel ike H1, 8Cr13MoV, 420HC or AUS8 because whenever I dent or roll them (unfortunately frequent thing to happen cutting that stuff) it's less than a minute to repair the damage and bring them back to sharp, which I can do at any pause time, and I also can use a simple stone, ceramic tile, or Silicon rocks we have lying around everywhere to use on our pruners   

(Image removed from quote.)

something I wouldn't really be able to do easily with ELMAX, S90V or Vanax

On the other hand you might have to try hard to dent or roll the super steels and then not need to repair them on site?

hardly.
As much wear resistance as they have, when they (unavoidably) hit ceramics, sand, tile,, metal banding or rocks they'll dent or chip. Maybe less damage than a softer steel, but then cutting will snag at that point and repairing the roll/chip will be harder

at least that's my limited experience 

[Ron Who]

I tend to agree with The Peacent. Some of my blades are high end steels but I prefer 440C and 12C27, or even 420 on my small traditionals. Easy resharpening is more important than anything else, I wouldn´t want to be out there with a high end steel blade that for some reason has become unusable.

[Old Boy]

Or expensive. I always get tempted and plunk down my money on something sharp and cool. Use it for a week then go back to my budget knife.

Oh well. 🤣

[Gerhard Gerber]

Great stuff! Just curious, how did you end up solving that request? Got any pics?

All this happened just before my holiday started, he was supposed to drop by so we can discuss the matter, still hasn't happened.

I've thought about it, I'll forge something from 52100 and he can buy a WorkSharp..... 

I bought a basic Lansky recently, decided over the weekend that I would.......try to.....re-profile the edge of the D6 blade of my course knife.
Used a marker to find out roughly what angle to use, and settled on 25 degrees.
We have a bit of a heatwave going on, after about 30 minutes sweat was literally dripping and with the coarse stone I'd not managed to reach the edge 
I then tried freehand on stones, but I'm not good enough for that yet.

The knife will shave and slice paper, but I'm also sure it's nowhere near as sharp as it could be.

The knife has sentimental value, but I actually started disliking it intensely yesterday,  Not sure why I was surprised since the knife ate 3 brand new WorkSharp belts and still had no edge, I've had good results with the Lansky, I'll try the D6 again if I get the diamond stones. 

[Old Boy]

Yikes

[pomsbz]

the thing is I can hardly appreciate high tier steels such as the ELMAX on the ZT that Nix gifted me. It's still cutting and shaving like when I got it but that's probably because I haven't used it at work. 

(Image removed from quote.)

When I am working all I cut are plants, fertilizer bags, twigs, roots, thorns, gravel filled soils, etc.
Most of these have ceramics, sand and dirt on them so I favor a steel ike H1, 8Cr13MoV, 420HC or AUS8 because whenever I dent or roll them (unfortunately frequent thing to happen cutting that stuff) it's less than a minute to repair the damage and bring them back to sharp, which I can do at any pause time, and I also can use a simple stone, ceramic tile, or Silicon rocks we have lying around everywhere to use on our pruners   

(Image removed from quote.)

something I wouldn't really be able to do easily with ELMAX, S90V or Vanax

On the other hand you might have to try hard to dent or roll the super steels and then not need to repair them on site?

hardly.
As much wear resistance as they have, when they (unavoidably) hit ceramics, sand, tile,, metal banding or rocks they'll dent or chip. Maybe less damage than a softer steel, but then cutting will snag at that point and repairing the roll/chip will be harder

at least that's my limited experience

Fair enough. I've yet to test super steels to their limit to work this stuff out.