Can you start a new life with $20K, and where?

[Gerhard Gerber]

I guess the title says it all, where could a person go for a better life?

[ddogu]

How do you define "better"?

If I were you I would choose South East Asia. Malaysia or Thailand... People are open to different cultures, TONS of expats, a variety of choices... If you're not into tropical climate, then you would need another option. South America maybe? Sounds interesting to me.

[Etherealicer]

A bit more of info would be helpful.
Western Europe is all about education, but countries like Switzerland suffer more and more from a shortage of artisans (everybody wants to work in an office). However, its bloody expensive to start a life in Western Europe (40k is a low annual income in Switzerland, with 20k you can probably live a year in Switzerland, provided you find a cheap accomodation).
Also, what languages do you speak. Your flag says Namibia, can you claim German citizenship?

[Gerhard Gerber]

I know somebody building a houseboat in Malaysia next year.

Never experienced the climate......

Tasmania?

[Gerhard Gerber]

Also, what languages do you speak. Your flag says Namibia, can you claim German citizenship?

My big problem is lack of qualifications, and that's a direct result of my past retrenchments/redundancies......didn't have the money to pay myself, and the companies no longer spent money on training either....
Let's face it, if your logic is sound you can google what you don't know....and there's too much for one brain to know anyway.

Unfortunately spent my whole life in IT, if I'd become a plumber I'd be rich and not thinking of leaving.....

We could claim German citizenship through my grandmother, but we don't have the necessary papers to follow through.

[Gerhard Gerber]

Western Europe is all about education, but countries like Switzerland suffer more and more from a shortage of artisans (everybody wants to work in an office). However, its bloody expensive to start a life in Western Europe (40k is a low annual income in Switzerland, with 20k you can probably live a year in Switzerland, provided you find a cheap accomodation).

A friend of mine emigrated to Switzerland end of July, they got in based on his wife's German citizenship, but they had to go through a massive process that involved several Skype interviews and I believe she had to go there for one interview.....not an easy or cheap process.

[gregozedobe]

I know somebody building a houseboat in Malaysia next year.

Never experienced the climate......

Tasmania?

Tasmania has a cool temperate climate, but warmish in summer (and not much snow in winter).

I believe the requirements for permanent immigration to Australia are rather tough these days, so unless you have an employer prepared to sponsor you it may be difficult.

$20K won't go very far at all for real estate in most places in Australia.

Is re-training as some kind of tradesman a viable option ?  Seems to be much more demand for a tradie that does a decent job than almost anything else.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Maybe I am reading a bit too much into it, but I think I would avoid Europe if I were you for a variety of reasons.  It always seemed to me that Europe was a place to go when you were already established, as opposed to a place to go to try and start over.

With $20k (I assume that is a rough approximation in USD?) I think I would be tempted to go to South or Central America.  I have been told that one can live quite comfortably on $30k/year in Argentina, and probably at least as well on that in places like Nicaragua, which is currently an interesting spot as for people of my generation it still holds a bit of a stigma from the 80's, but is gaining in popularity as a vacation destination.

With a background in IT it is difficult to make it in places like Canada, the US, and I would imagine many parts of Europe as it is often easier to have someone in India making 1/10th as much answering the phones and asking the person if they've turned it off and on, however living in a place with reliable internet and a relatively inexpensive standard of living, you could easily make it work and still leave time to enjoy the other aspects of your life.  These are also places where you are more likely to get ahead without pieces of paper to verify that you can do certain things.

Have you exhausted all of the options for staying put?  I would think there might be some potential opportunities for you at home if you were to attempt to leverage them a bit- for example, Africa seems to be very interesting now to well heeled Americans as a place for adventure, and I would imagine you could probably make yourself a nice website and make some cash as a guide/outfitter for the Fish River Hike or the Khomas Highland Hiking Trail, both of which you have experience in. 

Find a few other decent adventure hikes, build a website, buy some extra gear and make your $$ doing an adventure quarterly, and $20k would buy a lot of fancy gear and advertising, and I am certain some of the folks here would be happy to help spread the word.

Just a thought..... feel free to shoot it down, as I am not privvy to all the details of your situation, I just can't help but feel that you are likely trading scenery while maintaining the same issues.  Right now the global economy seems to favor the self starters, versus employees.

Def

[Antti Lammi]

Eastern europe or northern europe you could start new life with 20k

Only Tools Matters

[pfrsantos]

Maybe I am reading a bit too much into it, but I think I would avoid Europe if I were you for a variety of reasons.  It always seemed to me that Europe was a place to go when you were already established, as opposed to a place to go to try and start over.

With $20k (I assume that is a rough approximation in USD?) I think I would be tempted to go to South or Central America.  I have been told that one can live quite comfortably on $30k/year in Argentina, and probably at least as well on that in places like Nicaragua, which is currently an interesting spot as for people of my generation it still holds a bit of a stigma from the 80's, but is gaining in popularity as a vacation destination.

With a background in IT it is difficult to make it in places like Canada, the US, and I would imagine many parts of Europe as it is often easier to have someone in India making 1/10th as much answering the phones and asking the person if they've turned it off and on, however living in a place with reliable internet and a relatively inexpensive standard of living, you could easily make it work and still leave time to enjoy the other aspects of your life.  These are also places where you are more likely to get ahead without pieces of paper to verify that you can do certain things.

Have you exhausted all of the options for staying put?  I would think there might be some potential opportunities for you at home if you were to attempt to leverage them a bit- for example, Africa seems to be very interesting now to well heeled Americans as a place for adventure, and I would imagine you could probably make yourself a nice website and make some cash as a guide/outfitter for the Fish River Hike or the Khomas Highland Hiking Trail, both of which you have experience in. 

Find a few other decent adventure hikes, build a website, buy some extra gear and make your $$ doing an adventure quarterly, and $20k would buy a lot of fancy gear and advertising, and I am certain some of the folks here would be happy to help spread the word.

Just a thought..... feel free to shoot it down, as I am not privvy to all the details of your situation, I just can't help but feel that you are likely trading scenery while maintaining the same issues.  Right now the global economy seems to favor the self starters, versus employees.

Def

As usual, the boss knows what he's talking about. I've heard about people from Portugal going to Brasil (not Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, São Salvador) and being pretty happy with the place. If you retire here with a pension of minimum wage (or even slightly less), you can live like an upper-class citizen in one of the small towns in the northeast of Brasil, or any region not close to the main cities.

Wherever you choose to go, hope everything turns out for the best, Gerhard!

 

[Syncop8r]

NZ could be an option but I don't know the immigration rules - probably similar to Australia.

What is the main thing you wish to improve by emigrating? 

[ddogu]

AFAIK NZ just made it much harder for people who wanna immigrate? 

Intolerant and aggressive behaviour towards people from "outside" is rising in a lot of countries, unfortunately. The way you look might be important (skin, hair and eye color etc) for you to be able to blend in and have a peaceful life, IMHO. That is why, if you're thinking Europe, I would follow the recent news about the countries that look promising to you, to make sure you won't regret your choice later on.

Australia has always been known to be accepting immigrants and people with skills and experience, maybe an expat or Aussie can enlighten us. A newly-wed couple I know just moved there and seem to be quite happy. She is a SAP-girl and he is a musician.

Def made good points, though his remarks about it being kinda difficult for IT-people to find a job in some countries saddened me, since I'm also having similar thoughts about leaving my home country.

Have you considered China or Korea? Both Asian countries have expat-friendly metropols.
Singapore is an awesome and safe place to work and live (though it feels artificial there, if you ask me). It is an expensive city/country but definitely open to tech.

[pfrsantos]

If possible, I'd suggest taking a week to visit the prospective destination. This way, you can experience first hand how you feel in the new environment.

 

[Nix]

I have a well-heeled friend from Canada who is traveling to South Africa this Winter for an adventure vacation.

[Nix]

When you say, "new life", do you mean a non-IT job in a new location? Or do you mean an IT job in a new location?

New wife and kids?

It may be a question of what you are willing to give up, and what you might be willing to try and fail at. Being comfortable with failure may be the key to success. Look for opportunities. They are out there. You can build a new life, but it might take thinking "outside the box", as Def has hinted at.

On the flip side, I thought this was a fascinating read and makes one question what it means to Live:

[Whoey]

the horse track? 

[Aloha]

Nix raises some great questions. 

I ask myself if moving to a new state makes any difference.  If moving to a new country makes any difference.  Heck, does moving to a new city makes a difference.  Lots of variable. 

Skills will always play a part in your ability to earn a living.  Do you skills give you the best opportunity to do that?  Why not take that 20K and get some training in the field you want to work in?  Reasonably speaking of course.  You're not gonna get a doctorate on 20K.  Can you get some training or certification that would allow you to work in a field with less redundancy? 

Problems follow us.  Lack of skills follows us.  Mind set follows us. 

Southeast Asia, South America, Eastern Europe are places that come to mind.  My standard of living is very low as compared to the area I live.  In California we pay a premium but I live frugally so I'm not as hard hit even with my relatively low earnings. 

I believe you can make it anywhere.  Its make what!         

[Syncop8r]

Is there much in the way of family and friends you would be leaving behind?

[Aloha]

Is there much in the way of family and friends you would be leaving behind?

Shhh......     they'll find out soon enough....   

[ThundahBeagle]

Hi Gerhard

Sorry about your recent misfortunes and I wish you all the best.

Some important points:

How Def has described IT is what I call customer service from a call center. That is not IT per se.

It may help to know what level of IT you mean. Are you doing server management, are you Cisco certified (or even just experienced) or customer service from a call center? They are all different levels of IT. One might make you $40k and another could make you $120k.

It would just help to know your skill level to determine if moving is really worth it.

Having said all of that, there is tremendous bang for the buck in Brasil right now as Santos has said. It is 4 Reals to $1, and even still, things are cheaper in Brasil. I've been there several times - pleasure, business, AND a bit of an adventure. People are friendly. 20 grand can get you a small place (50 grand for a house fit for a judge). Learn a little Portuguese and you will go very far, but to be honest, people there love to meet Americans and I presume other foreigners, and practice their English.

You may be better off in the South of Brasil...Santa Catarina or Porto Alegre. A lot of Europeans settled there. Nova Veneza - lots of Italians settled. Blumenal - a still German speaking area with blonde hair, blue eyed population that boasts the second biggest October Fest in the world.

Sao Paolo has a very large Japanese population and that's where Japan gets a lot of its beef from...

But, as Aloha said...might it be worth it spending 20k on training? Maybe $10k on training and use the other 10 for bills in the meantime?

Only you can really say, but I thought I'd throw some of what I know your way.

Good luck and be well

[Nix]

But, as Aloha said...might it be worth it spending 20k on training? Maybe $10k on training and use the other 10 for bills in the meantime?

I was thinking along the same lines.

Regardless, I think it is fantastic, Gerhard, that you are asking the question. So many people seem stuck and afraid to take risks. Just by being able to ask the question, I think your odds of success have to be higher.   

[Smashie]

I'd go for Vietnam over Thailand, but first I'd look at training as a paramedic, $10k should get you on the way for that.

Stay strong mate 

[Vidar]

Many countries have special fast lane programs for immigration of people with skills in demand and who will get decent wages. Over here a common approach is to first get hired by a local company. The company will then help to document the in demand and wage part. These days I believe the bar for skill level is equal to a master level education and a wage of at least about USD 60000 or so per year. (Near average pay here).

IT is a broad and deep field so I don't know if your particular skill is in demand, your level, or if it can be documented somehow. If the stars do align then it doesn't have to cost anything to get started here - some companies even help with moving costs for attractive people.

If documentation is the problem then maybe put some of that money into trying to formalize or update your skills? (If so at some institution that is internationally recognized. I know people who have done years of education only to find that nobody knows or trust the level provided by their institution, and thus that the papers are worthless).

[MMR]

Instead of everyone just throwing random thoughts and ideas out there, maybe tell us a little more about what it is exactly you want to do.

One thing is immigrating to another country, another is being able to sustain and support yourself there. But regardless of what you want to do keep in mind that you have to go through several costly and time consuming procedures.

Starting out with, is getting all the visa and work / residential permits sorted, which doesn't happen overnight and is usually a nightmare of fees that needs to be payed here and there.

Then after getting that sorted, you are looking at the moving process, plane tickets etc. Since you are located in Namibia, I can't imagine any moving companies would "move by truck" up through Africa to mainland europe, so depending if you are just going to go with a check-in suit case or you have a whole house full of stuff to move, thats another cost to consider

Then what to do once you get to the country of choice? ..you would need accommodation, you have the options of renting or buying, which are also going to be another cost to consider.

Not to mention, do you have a job or plan on getting a job in that country? ...I know the rental situation around most larger cities here in Europe are pretty bad, and getting a mortgage for a house isn't exactly straight forward for someone who is new to a country and doesn't have years of credit history.



I hope none of this comes across the wrong way, because I am not trying to be rude or anything, so please don't that any of this the wrong way.  But I have struggled with a similar process myself in the past, when I was trying to fulfil a life long dream of moving to America, but was met with a bit of a shock when I found out the amount if red tape, and costs involved. And without having to come up with a fat amount of cash up front, there was no-one to really go to for help, and in the end I had to give up.

Also not to go into politics, but Trump isn't exactly helping the situation at the moment, if I were to try again.

/rant over