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Hybrid cars- anyone have one? 1443

No Life Club Posts: 1,316
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »
Does anyone remember the original Honda Civic with the first CVCC engines?
Those things were able to get the same mileage somehow that the Hybrids seem to get now?
You could buy the HF version here for the most economy and least performance as an option even.

Then Poof they vanished for some reason and the Hybrid is what we were left with?

I still have no clue what happened to them and why we had to accept the Hybrid as the replacement but the Tech was clearly there for that kind of mileage back then so......?

I did have a Fit a few years ago and did really like it but it was just too Tiny for me in the end too.

My friends Kids though LOVE it as their first car and it does keep plugging along despite a team of Teens trying to kill it!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,899 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2019, 01:35:45 PM »
I drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble.  :tu:

All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way.  I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world. :D
Just curious, what was the rough route of that 1000 mile trip? :)
I bet I could find charging stations along it.

It was actually a 7000 mile trip from Atlanta to the San Francisco Bay Area and back. I suppose I could have found places to charge or plug in too, but the point is that it's a 9+ hour ordeal to recharge, while I can gas up and be rolling in 5 minutes.  ;)
In the interests of accuracy:
If you had a fancy Tesla Model S, with a 70kWh battery, driving from Atlanta to San  Francisco would require 43 hours of driving, with an extra 13 hours of charging time on top.
Total trip time (not including sleeping, breaks, some of which you could do during the charges) would then be 56 hours.
I don't know anything about driving from Atlanta to San Francisco, does the 43 hours of driving sound correct?
https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=b0qy91s9
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 01:58:12 PM by Don Pablo »

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2019, 03:48:46 PM »
You can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.

The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...

A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.

So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.

I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me.  :dunno:
No Life Club Posts: 1,953
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2019, 03:57:12 PM »
You can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.

The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...

A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.

So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.

I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me.  :dunno:

I think that the times you are using are specifically assuming that you will not be making stop offs for food and bathroom breaks over that time in the gas powered car. If you organise the breaks with the charging the difference is going to be considerably less?

Oh and can I express jealousy for how cheap your gas is? 500 miles for $22. Price is 3-4X that here.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 03:59:57 PM by pomsbz »

"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2019, 03:58:55 PM »
I drove a hybrid SUV extensively for about 9 years, including long road trips without any trouble.  :tu:

All electric cars still suck not only because of the limited range, but because of the recharge time. For example I did a road trip last year where I drove 1000 miles on 2 different days of it (most of the time I average 500-800 miles cross country), which would not have been possible with an electric. It took a little over 16 hours to drive that far in my current (gasoline powered) car, and I could have done the same thing in a hybrid with no problem. But if I had a fancy-pants Tesla, with 335 mile range and a 9 1/2 hour recharge time (assuming I could find a place to charge every 335 mi.), it would have taken at least 35 hours to do the same 1000 miles, given that there would have been 2 recharges necessary. So for me, hybrid yes, economical gasoline power yes, all electric? No way.  I'll not only leave a Tesla in the dust, I'll leave it back there a few states, in a different part of the world. :D
Just curious, what was the rough route of that 1000 mile trip? :)
I bet I could find charging stations along it.

It was actually a 7000 mile trip from Atlanta to the San Francisco Bay Area and back. I suppose I could have found places to charge or plug in too, but the point is that it's a 9+ hour ordeal to recharge, while I can gas up and be rolling in 5 minutes.  ;)
In the interests of accuracy:
If you had a fancy Tesla Model S, with a 70kWh battery, driving from Atlanta to San  Francisco would require 43 hours of driving, with an extra 13 hours of charging time on top.
Total trip time (not including sleeping, breaks, some of which you could do during the charges) would then be 56 hours.
I don't know anything about driving from Atlanta to San Francisco, does the 43 hours of driving sound correct?
https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=b0qy91s9

I did not drive directly there and back, it was a roundabout trip using a more southerly route on the way there and a more northerly route on the way back, plus some driving in between. But yes, a direct drive to SF would be about 3 days at 12 hours a day, I have done this also. So around 36 if you pushed it.  :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2019, 04:01:35 PM »
You can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.

The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...

A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.

So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.

I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me.  :dunno:

I think that the times you are using are specifically assuming that you will not be making stop offs for food and bathroom breaks over that time in the gas powered car. If you organise the breaks with the charging the difference is going to be considerably less.

Oh and can I express jealousy for how cheap your gas is? 500 miles for $22. Price is 3-4X that here.

Yes, gas is cheap right now.  :tu: Also my car gets nearly 50mpg on the highway.  :tu:

As far as food and bathroom, I assume we all have to do that, no matter what we are driving, so I consider that a wash.  :)

(I will add that when I drive a very long distance in one day, it is less than leisurely, so the breaks are brief)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 04:06:03 PM by twiliter »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2019, 04:17:32 PM »
Does anyone remember the original Honda Civic with the first CVCC engines?
Those things were able to get the same mileage somehow that the Hybrids seem to get now?
You could buy the HF version here for the most economy and least performance as an option even.

Then Poof they vanished for some reason and the Hybrid is what we were left with?

I still have no clue what happened to them and why we had to accept the Hybrid as the replacement but the Tech was clearly there for that kind of mileage back then so......?

I did have a Fit a few years ago and did really like it but it was just too Tiny for me in the end too.

My friends Kids though LOVE it as their first car and it does keep plugging along despite a team of Teens trying to kill it!

I remember, the old Civics were tiny too. Honda still does a good job making economical cars!  :tu:

I think it's like Ben was saying, the hybrids do a better job at slow speeds in town, and about the same on the highway as regular gas cars. This has been my experience as well.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2019, 04:23:41 PM »
I will say too that I have no real world experience with an all electric car, so my ideal of using the full range of the battery and fully charging it are just hypothetical. I don't think people use the full range or fully charge them very often, so it's probably way less efficient than I think it is, and probably a ginormous hassle on a road trip.  :D
No Life Club Posts: 1,664

MMR dk

******
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2019, 08:57:27 PM »
Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kind regards,

MMR

-------------------------------------------------
"We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us."
- Andrew Ryan
-------------------------------------------------
No Life Club Posts: 1,316
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2019, 10:09:15 PM »
Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?
No Life Club Posts: 1,664

MMR dk

******
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2019, 08:48:31 AM »
Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?

I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius

Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kind regards,

MMR

-------------------------------------------------
"We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us."
- Andrew Ryan
-------------------------------------------------
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,899 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2019, 11:12:04 AM »
You can get <1 hour charging these days and it's getting faster.

The charging and infrastructure is improving, but still...

A Tesla 'supercharge' is about 75 minutes for a full charge (335 mi. range), which is still 2 1/2 hours more than it would take me on a 1000 mile day, given that you would need 2 'supercharges'. That is a significant amount of time to add to an already 16+ hour drive. Also it currently costs about $22 for a full charge at a 'supercharge' station, which are not abundant outside urban areas, so again good luck finding one (or 2 in this case). I'm only using Tesla as the example because they currently have the farthest range for all-electrics.

So side by side, my car and a Tesla leave at the same time, and the Telsa stops for a 'supercharge' at ideally about 335 miles, and spends $22 for a recharge. I drive 500 miles and spend $22 for a fill up (at current prices) in about 5 minutes, which will get me another 500 miles. Meanwhile the Tesla is 75 minutes behind me at my 500 mile mark, and will have to 'supercharge' again before reaching 1000 miles to the tune of (currently) another $22, and still arrive 2 1/2 hours behind me. The farther the trip, the more it adds up.

I think the electrics are probably good for around town, but I can also imagine being in a full panic, with a dead battery cell in the middle of nowhere. Electric cars are still evolving, but for now it's neither an economical or sensible option for me.  :dunno:
Misleading.  :)
Quote from: Wikipedia
They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S.
It's the last 20% that takes 35 minutes, so you wouldn't go above 80% if you were at a supercharger station.

Instead of two 75 minute stops in a 1000 mile trip, you would make three 40 minutes stops. Which takes 2 hours, shaving 30 minutes off.

I'm not trying to argue that it doesn't take longer to charge an electric car, just saying that it takes about 30 minutes less than you're saying. :cheers:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,899 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2019, 11:22:11 AM »
Also, us Europeans laugh in pain everytime we hear the price of petrol in the US.  :rofl:
The price over here makes electric seem better by comparison.

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,899 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2019, 12:09:55 PM »
I suppose I should say why I'm so biased towards electric cars.  :D

I live on an island the size of South Carolina. And I'm lead to understand that's small by American standards.

From the capital city to the farthest point of land is about 350km. Most of the electric cars on the market can manage that without a recharge. And why would I drive to the literal lands end without spending a few hours there that I could use to recharge my hypothetical electric car?  :D

And if I take my electric car to the mainland on a ferry, I'm about three recharges away from about 5 different countries.

Plus, with petrol being expensive, and diesel looking to be banned in the city in the near future.....

So, that's my bias. :cheers:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
No Life Club Posts: 1,316
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2019, 01:21:59 PM »
I didn't own mine for long,it was just too small for me really and I also drive trucks.
Toyota sells Hybrid SUVs though and so does/did GM,even the big ones!

I work for and with car dealers though a lot and it is pretty widely accepted that the Toyota Prius is maybe the most reliable platform that they sell,thats all I was trying to say.
They have not just evolved that way either but from the very start the Prius have been oddly reliable it seems so the idea that the complexity of the Hybrid system is an issue does not seem to be the case.
Sure it would be pricey to replace a main battery pack but even these have proved to last a lot longer than expected it seems.

Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?

I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius

Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No Life Club Posts: 1,664

MMR dk

******
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2019, 01:35:09 PM »
I didn't own mine for long,it was just too small for me really and I also drive trucks.
Toyota sells Hybrid SUVs though and so does/did GM,even the big ones!

I work for and with car dealers though a lot and it is pretty widely accepted that the Toyota Prius is maybe the most reliable platform that they sell,thats all I was trying to say.
They have not just evolved that way either but from the very start the Prius have been oddly reliable it seems so the idea that the complexity of the Hybrid system is an issue does not seem to be the case.
Sure it would be pricey to replace a main battery pack but even these have proved to last a lot longer than expected it seems.

Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?

I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius

Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s actually a lot easier than one would expect to replace the battery pack on a Prius





Kind regards,

MMR

-------------------------------------------------
"We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us."
- Andrew Ryan
-------------------------------------------------
No Life Club Posts: 1,316
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2019, 02:16:26 PM »
It is,I never claimed it was not easy,just Expensive!

I didn't own mine for long,it was just too small for me really and I also drive trucks.
Toyota sells Hybrid SUVs though and so does/did GM,even the big ones!

I work for and with car dealers though a lot and it is pretty widely accepted that the Toyota Prius is maybe the most reliable platform that they sell,thats all I was trying to say.
They have not just evolved that way either but from the very start the Prius have been oddly reliable it seems so the idea that the complexity of the Hybrid system is an issue does not seem to be the case.
Sure it would be pricey to replace a main battery pack but even these have proved to last a lot longer than expected it seems.

Personally, I have no intention of buying any electric or hybrid vehicle anytime soon.

One; I don’t think the technology has been fully perfected yet, maybe give it 5-10 more years

Second; I prefer SUV, Jeeps and Trucks, I like the higher driving position, higher ground clearance, off road ability and just overall practicality.

Third: I like basic vehicles that I can work on and fix myself, I see all the gizmos in new cars; as just more to go wrong and be a nightmare to get fixed, especially given how sensitive electronics are in modern cars


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel pretty much the same but it turns out that the Prius is one of the most reliable Toyotas that has been around in a long time too!?!?

I wouldn’t know, I have never owned a Prius

Until they make one with 4WD and raised suspension, I don’t think I ever will either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s actually a lot easier than one would expect to replace the battery pack on a Prius


Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,899 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2019, 02:26:40 PM »
The battery packs on the original Tesla Roadster are going on 10 years old now. They could be considered as Tesla's "prototype", not as good as the newer ones in the Model S and especially in the Model 3. But even those original roadster packs are mostly at about 80% capacity mark, according to the owners, after 10 years.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:28:14 PM by Don Pablo »

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2019, 02:45:59 PM »
I suppose I should say why I'm so biased towards electric cars.  :D

I live on an island the size of South Carolina. And I'm lead to understand that's small by American standards.

From the capital city to the farthest point of land is about 350km. Most of the electric cars on the market can manage that without a recharge. And why would I drive to the literal lands end without spending a few hours there that I could use to recharge my hypothetical electric car?  :D

And if I take my electric car to the mainland on a ferry, I'm about three recharges away from about 5 different countries.

Plus, with petrol being expensive, and diesel looking to be banned in the city in the near future.....

So, that's my bias. :cheers:

I understand Pabs, I think when they get the range up to 500 miles and there is more charging infrastructure, it would be a more viable option for me, if I don't have to pay too much for one. Taking a long trip and driving 4 to 5 hundred miles a day and recharging overnight is not very problematic.  :dunno:

I think what I resent is the 'mystique' of them, which I find vacuous. I will not pay double for a car because of slick marketing which ignore obvious limitations, and falsely promote a lot of trendy environmental advantages that they don't actually have. There is a massive amount of b.s. being shoveled in the promotion of these things that a lot of people believe, obviously, because there is a market for them. I personally won't buy a car solely because I think it will give me a status boost. I think there are better options for status cars, like McLaren or Bentley that are fairly honest about their own ridiculousness.  :D
No Life Club Posts: 1,664

MMR dk

******
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #79 on: February 05, 2019, 11:19:24 PM »
Blah blah blah about gas millage and range per charge...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kind regards,

MMR

-------------------------------------------------
"We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us."
- Andrew Ryan
-------------------------------------------------
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,497 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Hybrid cars- anyone have one?
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2019, 12:08:16 AM »
Blah blah blah about gas millage and range per charge...

(Image removed from quote.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No spectacular burnouts, but definitely fast. 

This guy has a lot of fun with his.  :tu: >>

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOpdDZoLH9IDJ8IuNZzz2iQ

 

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