Leatherman Free P2/P4 Club and Feedback Thread

[gerleatherberman]

Nice to see some usage and more thoughts   I haven’t used mine much, but that’s normal for me.  My scissors do take some effort to deploy though, so no looseness on mine.  The bottle opener works well though, better than any other MT opener I’ve used.

Nice.
The phillips bottle opener is very beefy and does look like it would work well.

[nwoody]

That videos answer it well. Thanks for posting them. The tool needs to go back in my opinion. I would be pretty disappointed if mine had that issue. Perhaps a first run problem that was fixed fairly quickly?  But, the example you bought, was part of the bad batch.

Yeah it is pretty disappointing, especially since I was excited and ordered around 7 am on launch day and when I kept reading other comments about the great QC and then here mine is haha. The more I look at it, I can now see that the scissors have about the same grind angle for the spring retention as the philips and pry bar do, hence why it opens the same amount until touches the spring. I was totally oblivious that it had such a major issue, the other 3 blades operate normally. So thanks for helping me realize that!  I'll send it in for a warranty claim tomorrow morning or Monday and begin the waiting game...again.

[gerleatherberman]

You're certainly welcome, nwoody. 

First confirmed QC issue so far: Tang grind incorrect on scissors and partially engages with adjacent drivers.

[Vadim]

Any side handle flex when using screwdriver in L-position? Especially in the pliers fasteners place.

[gerleatherberman]

Any side handle flex when using screwdriver in L-position? Especially in the pliers fasteners place.

I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way.
But, we'll see how it does. I betcha it won't t-handle like a Wave/Surge(added channelling for outboard blades over inboard tools makes it easy).

[Aloha]

Just catching up.  Great videos.  Bummer nwoody got one that good to go.  Its gonna happen sadly but lets hope this realy is a very random situation.  I wont jump to conclusions myself. 

Welcome nwoody  .  Thanks for posting your tools issue.  I do hope LM gets you sorted VERY fast and checks outgoing tools for any possible scissor issues for all tools heading out.   

[Vadim]

I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way.
But, we'll see how it does. I betcha it won't t-handle like a Wave/Surge(added channelling for outboard blades over inboard tools makes it easy).

Thanks GLBM!

[gerleatherberman]

 

[gerleatherberman]

Some display cabinet lock work.

Note: imgur put photos out of order.

[powernoodle]

I'm glad that file looks aggressive.

[Wspeed]

Nice work GLBM do you think the file is strong enough
to be a screwdriver as normally they are quite brittle 

[gerleatherberman]

Nice work GLBM do you think the file is strong enough
to be a screwdriver as normally they are quite brittle 

True. I modulate the driver usage on file tips. The machine screws I tightened weren't high torque. The phillips driver wouldn't turn inside the recess. Same problem with the Wave/Surge bits. The file/driver turned in the recess though.

I'm glad that file looks aggressive.

Indeed. The only reason I would call ot a file. The cut of the file works well. Kind of like a Rebar file cut or Spirit file cut.
On the plus side, I am not worried about snapping off the file, because of the profile.

[Blackbeard]

You're certainly welcome, nwoody. 

First confirmed QC issue so far: Tang grind incorrect on scissors and partially engages with adjacent drivers.

There's a pretty bad one in the amazon reviews, guy posted a video. Aside from that just see people on youtube complaining about some hot spots, tools popping out and price, but there are a lot more positives then negatives 

[gerleatherberman]

The guys talking

There's a pretty bad one in the amazon reviews, guy posted a video. Aside from that just see people on youtube complaining about some hot spots, tools popping out and price, but there are a lot more positives then negatives 

My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
People complaining about the price is fine(US labor and new-tool R&D aren't cheap), but some of those guys have $150 Benchmade and Spyderco folding knives. Do they even realize how much more involved an MT is to produce than a folding knife?

[Blackbeard]

The guys talking My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
People complaining about the price is fine(US labor and new-tool R&D aren't cheap), but some of those guys have $150 Benchmade and Spyderco folding knives. Do they even realize how much more involved an MT is to produce than a folding knife?

Thanks for the thorough review and testing  Glad it's working out for you.
The guy on amazon with the P4 review/vid seems to have a poor copy, it almost looks like it exploded at the plier mount lol, But it's probably a rare case. The crybabies complaining about the high price? They knew it was expensive so why moan & groan...The Steel on those knives you mention are much higher quality than LM's but I always think they are too pricey as well.

[gerleatherberman]

Thanks for the thorough review and testing  Glad it's working out for you.
The guy on amazon with the P4 review/vid seems to have a poor copy, it almost looks like it exploded at the plier mount lol, But it's probably a rare case. The crybabies complaining about the high price? They knew it was expensive so why moan & groan...The Steel on those knives you mention are much higher quality than LM's but I always think they are too pricey as well.

Edit: Removed text. Reading back, it looks like I was rambling. Apologies for the rambling.

[nwoody]

Welcome nwoody  .  Thanks for posting your tools issue.  I do hope LM gets you sorted VERY fast and checks outgoing tools for any possible scissor issues for all tools heading out.

Thanks Aloha! I'm sure they will..well hoping anyways. I mean just look at what came in the mail today...for FREE:).. now that's some customer service. Too bad I need to send back my p4 for warranty claim. It's like a giant tease haha.

[gerleatherberman]

Very nice, nwoody! And good service, LM!

That pocket clip is a great piece of kit by itself. I can think of 20 tools I'd like to tap some threads in and install that clip.
But, for starters, Spirit, PocketPowerPlier, PowerLock, MP600, MP400, etc.....

[gerleatherberman]

Was chatting with a friend online and was tasked to justify a statement I made. The statement I made that I felt the fit & finish of the Free P2/P4 was a bit better than the Spirit's(a statement that several members here called me out on). So, it isn't THAT big of a difference in fit & finish, but maybe these photos can explain why I feel the way I do about it. I really like all of these multitools, so please don't get me wrong. These five tools are all top-tier in my opinion. But, all in all, I don't think fit & finish is a good single measure of how good a tool is in the real world. Only time can tell that.
Let me know if my eyes are messed up or something. Maybe I'm seeing these incorrectly, as far as the fit & finish are concerned. I won't point anything out yet, so not to instill any notions.

[Sam Lim]

For the very first time, I am actually going lean towards the spirit. While I do not use a spirit due to the way they design their wire cutter. It's just not suitable for me. But the feel and ergo of using it is very smooth. There's nothing that poke back at my palm. Be it using the pliers or the inboard tool. Everything is just smooth. It a very classic looker for sure. For work, I mainly use a LM or Gerber. Their tools and pliers just works for me. LM is a true workhorse, designed with functionality in mind. But their finishing were never quite the best. Be it a wave, charge or Free series, there are always some edges or parts that are not properly smoothed out. Leaving users to rectify themself. So, my very personal opinion and experience, Vic finishing are top notch. LM, works beautifully but hurts, sometimes. Very very own opinion. Not intended to offend either camps.

[gadgetman7]

For the very first time, I am actually going lean towards the spirit. While I do not use a spirit due to the way they design their wire cutter. It's just not suitable for me. But the feel and ergo of using it is very smooth. There's nothing that poke back at my palm. Be it using the pliers or the inboard tool. Everything is just smooth. It a very classic looker for sure. For work, I mainly use a LM or Gerber. Their tools and pliers just works for me. LM is a true workhorse, designed with functionality in mind. But their finishing were never quite the best. Be it a wave, charge or Free series, there are always some edges or parts that are not properly smoothed out. Leaving users to rectify themself. So, my very personal opinion and experience, Vic finishing are top notch. LM, works beautifully but hurts, sometimes. Very very own opinion. Not intended to offend either camps.

I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.


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[Sam Lim]

I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.

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  I didn't have problem with any hotpots with the wave when using the pliers but it can give you a nasty bite on the flesh of your palm if u are holding too high. Having said this, the wave is still my go to for general purpose. 

[Sam Lim]

Made myself carry just the P2 for work today. Its a new tool, capability was quite unknown, untested.

My routine work involves opening packages, boxes, cutting copper cables, stripping, wire terminations on terminal blocks and I also get to screw many stuffs. End of my work day, very unfortunately, I have to say I am quite disappointed. First off, I didn't like the resistance when opening the main blade. It is not overly strong, but can be felt and if I am not careful, there is the chance of slippage and the blade will spring back. Just doesn't feel fluid. Also attempted to use the flat heads for termination but very soon realise it is not a very good idea. The the shaft of the drivers are sharp. One is an awl and the other is a file. It can scratch, cut, damage anything close enough. Though they are pretty long reach, They are also tapered and are useless for recessed screws. They are also made too thin to give u any kind of confidence when using them. I do not like that 3 Flat head screwdrivers at all.  One thing that starts to annoy me is, this is one noisy pliers to deploy. When locking down the pliers, the snap is loud and catches attention. Anyone within 5m knows that u are opening the pliers. I didn't like the tension of that spring when closing either, its taking too much effort to open and close that pliers due to that spring latch/lock thing. I did some sanding around the sharp points and corner to try to make it more comfortable but no matter what I can still feel that spring tab and the handle ends working into my palm when using the pliers.



On the slightly brighter side, I manage to break in my pliers and they open and closes freely now. They work as they should but they feel just like any normal properly working LM pliers. Strongest? Not sure, feels the same to me but I do notice they are very slightly thinner than the ones on the wave plus which shouldn't make any real difference for the strength and durability. The "new" replaceable cutter definitely works better than the older model as they are grounded steeper. But these cutters are now common to the newer batch of tools from the factory. ST300, wave plus etc. Scissor, no complaints. Almost the perfect size and have a very decent cutting power.   

End of the day, I feel very compromised. I really wanted to like this tool but for what it offers, with the fresh and newer ( slightly irritating) design, I still do not feel that this tool is an upgrade over a regular wave plus. 

[SteveC]

Good review Sam  !   

I don't see myself getting either of these tools in the future.

[Wspeed]

Good review Sam 

I can’t see myself getting any of them two neither
Just hope that they will start making other models with a flat bit driver 

[gerleatherberman]

Made myself carry just the P2 for work today. Its a new tool, capability was quite unknown, untested.

My routine work involves opening packages, boxes, cutting copper cables, stripping, wire terminations on terminal blocks and I also get to screw many stuffs. End of my work day, very unfortunately, I have to say I am quite disappointed. First off, I didn't like the resistance when opening the main blade. It is not overly strong, but can be felt and if I am not careful, there is the chance of slippage and the blade will spring back. Just doesn't feel fluid. Also attempted to use the flat heads for termination but very soon realise it is not a very good idea. The the shaft of the drivers are sharp. One is an awl and the other is a file. It can scratch, cut, damage anything close enough. Though they are pretty long reach, They are also tapered and are useless for recessed screws. They are also made too thin to give u any kind of confidence when using them. I do not like that 3 Flat head screwdrivers at all.  One thing that starts to annoy me is, this is one noisy pliers to deploy. When locking down the pliers, the snap is loud and catches attention. Anyone within 5m knows that u are opening the pliers. I didn't like the tension of that spring when closing either, its taking too much effort to open and close that pliers due to that spring latch/lock thing. I did some sanding around the sharp points and corner to try to make it more comfortable but no matter what I can still feel that spring tab and the handle ends working into my palm when using the pliers.


On the slightly brighter side, I manage to break in my pliers and they open and closes freely now. They work as they should but they feel just like any normal properly working LM pliers. Strongest? Not sure, feels the same to me but I do notice they are very slightly thinner than the ones on the wave plus which shouldn't make any real difference for the strength and durability. The "new" replaceable cutter definitely works better than the older model as they are grounded steeper. But these cutters are now common to the newer batch of tools from the factory. ST300, wave plus etc. Scissor, no complaints. Almost the perfect size and have a very decent cutting power.   

End of the day, I feel very compromised. I really wanted to like this tool but for what it offers, with the fresh and newer ( slightly irritating) design, I still do not feel that this tool is an upgrade over a regular wave plus. 

Sorry to read you did not enjoy your P2, Sam.  Maybe there will be a way to mod it in the future to possibly help make it enjoyable like the modded tools you have that you enjoy. 

[Sam Lim]

Good review Sam  !   

I don't see myself getting either of these tools in the future.

I so wanted to tell myself to like the P2 but there are just too many short comings, at least for me. It just not suitable. The hype that built up over the many months probably contributed to the over expectation.  I am sure many other will have different opinions.

Btw, I did unscrewed the tool side of the pivot to have a peek. The tang profile around the pivot is extremely big. None of the things I have laying around will fit. The only way I can see any modification on it is to fabricate new tools from it ground up. So I will leave this godly task to others that have proper access to CnC and mills.. I will be very excited if anyone can improve on this tool.     I notice there is no signs of locktite but unlikely the screw will loosen by itself under normal use. The screw post is the exact same size of what they use on the juice series. I dun have a caliper so I dun have the measurement. Be careful if anyone wish to play around with them. The screw is tiny and will break if it gets jammed. In my juice mods, I bought the barrel screw from a I forgot what knife making website. I accidentally jammed and broke 2 of the screws in the barrel with minimal effort. The screws size and thread is the same. Breaking the ones on the LM shouldn't be too hard.

[Sam Lim]

Sorry to read you did not enjoy your P2, Sam.  Maybe there will be a way to mod it in the future to possibly help make it enjoyable like the modded tools you have that you enjoy. 

Posted 2 mins apart.  See reply to Steve above...  I really wish I can enjoy it as much as you are. Keep rocking dude. 

[Sam Lim]

Good review Sam 

I can’t see myself getting any of them two neither
Just hope that they will start making other models with a flat bit driver 

Just a mindless rant for something I considered too overpriced. They did well for the advertising and marketing. 

[gerleatherberman]

Posted 2 mins apart.  See reply to Steve above...  I really wish I can enjoy it as much as you are. Keep rocking dude. 

Indeed. I would never buy a P4 to replace a Wave only as a user tool. I bought mine, because I enjoy the way they operate and look. I think the function works well enough for moderate use and would be suitable to a large swath of MT users. It won't be replacing my Charge and Surge as far as works tools, but it has performed well for the few days I've used it at work. Not like the Wave/Charge, but it did work.

I said in the beginning and still maintain that Leatherman really really smurfed up by implying(or misleading the public to infer) that the P series was better than the Wave. They should have marketed it as a top-notch quality tool that is fun to play with. Kind of like high-end folding knives. We know that $200+ folding knives don't offer any functional advantage over $50-$100 folding knives. But, with that being the case, there is a massive desire and market for "high-end" folding knives. Leatherman should have gone after that demographic by showing how much fun the P series is to use. I really like the P series, because it is so much more fun to use for me, that I am OK with what I paid, because it works as it should for most tasks, but while being all one-hand accessible and not using fingernail nicks. I don't like it for being 'better than a Wave', because the Wave is a better user tool. Wave just isn't as much fun to use/play with.