Multitool.org
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter? 525

No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« on: May 08, 2019, 07:27:20 PM »
As I've worked through various tool concepts over the years I've accumulated a bunch of technically interesting ones, but which for various reasons might not be feasible products on their own. Some fall in the maybe category. A EDC compound cutter is one such item.

Do anyone have any decent volume use for pocket sized specialized cutter? Say cutting capacity around 3mm (1/8") or thereabouts. Wire, welding, spikes, screws, fences, iron packaging bands maybe? Other uses?

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 3,062
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 12:41:39 AM »
I have to cut fencing wire all the time, so sure.  I can't stand to lug around a heavy fencing plier when I'm just checking the fences on my own, without my pack. Also, perhaps make one handle a screwdriver/pry bar for pulling steeples?
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,833
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 08:37:39 AM »
I also deal with fencing enough to have handy multiple compound leverage diagonal cutters, pliers, mini bolt cutters, nippers etc etc.
While I would like a compact cutter for the day pack/pocket I don't think I would like the cost of such an item.

I am curious though so how compact are we talking here?
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 09:40:06 AM »
I am curious though so how compact are we talking here?

I figure one with 3-4mm capacity should fit in a pocket. One can't really scale down the cutter head itself as that has to match its intended tasks, but 3-4 mm should be pocket sized. I imagine a cutter head somewhere around the size of a Knipex Cobalt bolt cutter - that one is about 3-4mm capacity.

Edit: Come to think of it, I now know where the cutter head for a prototype will likely come from. Poor Cobalt! :D

Also, perhaps make one handle a screwdriver/pry bar for pulling steeples?

This is not really a multi-tool, rather a specialized EDC cutter, and a pointy pry bar end isn't very pocket friendly. That said I do get the natural match for fencing, so I'll keep the theme churning at the back of my head - once in a rare moon better alternatives show up after a while. Knowing the need/ problem is the first step towards a solution, so thank you for that.  :cheers:
 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 09:50:44 AM by Vidar »

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,355
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 02:48:27 PM »
With all te migrating people do these days a pocket wire cutter might indeed be just the thing...  :D

Though in all seriousness I wouldn't mind a multitool that can cut wire really well.  :tu:

There is no magic therefore gadgets!
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 08:06:06 PM »
With all te migrating people do these days a pocket wire cutter might indeed be just the thing...  :D

Though in all seriousness I wouldn't mind a multitool that can cut wire really well.  :tu:

Maybe upsize a bit for bike thiefs...  :twak:

I've been looking at the head, and in all fairness most of the discussed cut stuff are fairly round it seems. Thus it might make sense to just make the jaw just a little bit longer than the max opening. That would make for one nasty look but save a fair bit of weight.

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,833
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 11:00:51 PM »
You're making matching nippers as well yeah?   :)   :D
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 11:55:54 PM »
You're making matching nippers as well yeah?   :)   :D

For chewing tiles? Or nails? I don't really see this concept as a good fit for that. :D Bolt cutters might actually be a good fit though. Anyone need a pocketable bolt cutter?


"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,833
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 12:01:48 AM »
For nails and fence staples etc etc. They are really very useful. Bolt cutter not so much.
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 12:10:04 AM »
For nails and fence staples etc etc. They are really very useful. Bolt cutter not so much.

I only considered nippers with tiles and electronics, but I see cable cutters and the like might also fall in that category. That might actually work. How small is a good working head of that nature for your use?

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,833
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2019, 01:21:24 AM »
For pocket nips probably couldn't go less than a 10mm edge.
Guessing (not on hand right now) the ones I use atm which aren't compounds have a 30mm edge and 250mm handle.
The important parts for me are the shoulder/fulcrum point? and handle length/lever ability.
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »
For pocket nips probably couldn't go less than a 10mm edge.
Guessing (not on hand right now) the ones I use atm which aren't compounds have a 30mm edge and 250mm handle.
The important parts for me are the shoulder/fulcrum point? and handle length/lever ability.

Something like style only less rigid and heavy? (This thing is my best small cutter - it makes my other one handed cutters feel weak and incapable).


"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,833
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2019, 03:30:57 PM »
Sounds about right.
No Life Club Posts: 4,756
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2019, 05:41:47 PM »
I don´t want to rain on your parade, but isn´t this:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Farmerzange-Universalzange-Weidezaun-Hammer-Zange-Zaunbau-Multifunktionszange-/273320275649

The Fencing Multi Tool you wre developing?!  :think:
Or are you planning somethinh different?
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2019, 06:08:26 PM »
I don´t want to rain on your parade, but isn´t this:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Farmerzange-Universalzange-Weidezaun-Hammer-Zange-Zaunbau-Multifunktionszange-/273320275649

The Fencing Multi Tool you wre developing?!  :think:
Or are you planning somethinh different?

No, I do many projects but a specialized fencing tool isn't one of them. And I got one of those you linked to :) It isn't exactly pocket sized, a bit on the heavy side, and has no compound leverage. It relies solely on long handles.

This thread came to life basically because I've had this very compact high leverage concept laying around on the backburner for quite a while, and figured I'd find a suitable use or need.

On a sidenote I think it is fair to assume most wires, fences and bolts will be round. Given that there really isn't much point having a cutter length much longer than the diameter of the cut items. That should chop off some size and weight from a cutter head too.

As for raining on my parade I get plenty of that all the time, and the sooner it rains the better! There is a lot of exotic stuff on the market already and one can never really be sure one knows about all the relevant products. Still, that pales in comparison with the volume of existing patents that never even made it to the market - but which still lingers on as a minefield of live and dud patents to hit upon. And then there are registered designs..

One can try, but one can never be sure, so thanks for the post :) Better to check one time too many than waste lots of work and resources on dead ends.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 06:21:21 PM by Vidar »

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 4,756
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2019, 10:02:12 AM »
I´m sorry. I should have read your explanations more toroughly. I skimmed the thread during my break and somewhere along the line I trhought "fencing, wait there is this plier I once saw..."
I did read the thread now and am curious what will come up.
There once was a user here who put wire cutters into his SOG - I don´t remember the user or details, but maybe someone does and maybe the old thread sparks some new idea.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,327 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2019, 10:17:20 AM »
Your referring to J-Sew's(Bob's) SOG PowerCut homemade prototype-replica, and it is a great idea IMO. :iagree:

Only issue there is the diagonal cutter head is going to be a bit on the weak side for things like fence wire and piano wire. But, that said, it could be done with the correct heat treating process. And Vidar's idea of shortening the cutter to just the rated-use necessary size would keep the material closest to the highest leverage point. :)

I cut piano wire with a set of these quite often. It uses a "PowerSlot" system that doubles the force applied.
https://www.amazon.com/Tools-VISE-GRIP-Max-Leverage-PowerSlot-1902412/dp/B00N3VSP1Y/ref=asc_df_B00N3VSP1Y/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309811990469&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9931427689824230250&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1013074&hvtargid=pla-470538171564&psc=1

Using the SOG leverage system with a shortened cutting head treated similarly(or better) would be a nice thing to have.

But, that is just my $0.02.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the ideas/concepts you have, Vidar! :popcorn:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2019, 02:53:44 PM »
Using the SOG leverage system with a shortened cutting head treated similarly(or better) would be a nice thing to have.

Ah, there are some twists and nuances with those designs. One handed compound pliers with a classic single fulcrum, like the SOG, works perfectly in theory and do indeed provide the compound action claimed. And for gripping stuff at some featured point along the plier head there isn't much to add as long as it can open wide enough to grip.

In practice for cutting however there are some more nuances to the story. (I believe these are the causes why many reviewers don't really get expected full effect of the compound leverage - they likely actually don't).

Compound action pliers trade higher leverage towards more handle splay. And for one handed pliers we have a natural limitation for how wide we can grip. Combine this with the fact that most cutters have long cutting edges, where it doesn't matter where you cut, and you get some twist as illustrated in the pictures below.

The pictures show drawings of two pliers - first one with 2:1 compound leverage, and then one without any compound action. The handle position is the same (say your max grip width) for both pictures.

In the pictured jaws there are the profiles of two bolts to be cut. The small bolt is small enough to go all the way into the root of the plier head, and then the compound action is indeed twice as good as the normal pliers. The large bolt however is too big to get very deep into the cutters. The 2:1 leverage is still technically correct, but for the actual advantage over a normal plier one needs to compare: As the picture of the normal plier shows the bolt can get a lot closer to the fulcrum due to the jaws opening more. The difference is exactly halving the distance from the fulcrum, and thus largely eliminating the advantage of the compound leverage for this size bolt.

There are some more nuances to this, but that gives you some twists at least?  :cheers:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 02:58:50 PM by Vidar »

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,327 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2019, 04:03:04 PM »
Ahhh, I see. Sorry, Vidar. I had assumed the cutters were just for piano and fence wire. Good to know the tool could be capable of cutting some smaller bolts/screws. REALLY :like:



Here is the piano/fence wire compound leverage thingie I had in mind. Please excuse the horrible paint drawing. The round things over the cutter pivot are the SOG gear cover doodads. Imagine the gear setup under them. Again, sorry about the awful drawing.  :facepalm:

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2019, 04:25:19 PM »
Ahhh, I see. Sorry, Vidar. I had assumed the cutters were just for piano and fence wire. Good to know the tool could be capable of cutting some smaller bolts/screws. REALLY :like:

Here is the piano/fence wire compound leverage thingie I had in mind.

The cutter tool concept I consider is very far from any traditional cutters or pliers in general for that matter. Conceptually it can certainly do bolts - the limit is more about what size cutter head make sense for a pocket. Anyway, some more things in line first and then I'll make a functional prototype. Should be interesting.

If I get the drawing right it is a short head with just grip and cut? Small area for grip and a short area for cutting? I think there are some who make traditional cutters with a tiny grip area at the very end. I can't remember what they are used for though.

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,327 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2019, 05:10:46 PM »
The cutter tool concept I consider is very far from any traditional cutters or pliers in general for that matter. Conceptually it can certainly do bolts - the limit is more about what size cutter head make sense for a pocket. Anyway, some more things in line first and then I'll make a functional prototype. Should be interesting.
:popcorn:
Something that can be pocketed(maybe even folded up) that could reliable cut most "normal" screws would be awesome!

Quote from: Vidar
If I get the drawing right it is a short head with just grip and cut? Small area for grip and a short area for cutting? I think there are some who make traditional cutters with a tiny grip area at the very end. I can't remember what they are used for though.
Indeed, but the one I'm imagining, I don't have the skill to represent properly. But, it is a folding idea. Similar to the OG PowerPlier, but with a small cutting place full case hardened or even carbide tipped anvil cutting jaws and rigid handle structure that could fold up to <5" @ <8oz.
It is basically just day-dreaming on my part. I do wish I had the skills to design and build the tools. :ahhh

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.
No Life Club Posts: 1,262
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2019, 07:07:11 PM »
I do wish I had the skills to design and build the tools. :ahhh

It is a rabbit hole without a bottom, but the sooner you jump in the deeper you fall.. That didn't turn out quite as motivational as I had hoped :D

Nobody knows everything when they start, so if you really want to it is just about beginning somewhere with something?

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,327 Man of Multiple MultiTool Manufacturers
Re: Anyone need a compact EDC compound cutter?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2019, 07:18:58 PM »
It is a rabbit hole without a bottom, but the sooner you jump in the deeper you fall.. That didn't turn out quite as motivational as I had hoped :D

Nobody knows everything when they start, so if you really want to it is just about beginning somewhere with something?
Motivational as much as it can be. Thanks, Vidar!  :cheers:

So true. I may try and tackle a PowerCut concept at some point(retrofit a cutter head into a spare PowerLock).  :ahhh

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.

 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
August Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Aug 31
Total Receipts: $51.00
PayPal Fees: $3.48
Net Balance: $47.52
Below Goal: $252.48
Site Currency: USD
16% 
August Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal
SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.093 seconds with 32 queries.
© 2018 Defender Web & Tool