Gareth's Sword Collection.

[Aloha]

Nice work.  Removal of that paint sure made quite a difference. 

[SteveC]

Looks much better !   

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh they were definitely designed with combat in mind.  Would have seen some use in the second Boer War and, more significantly, the Sudan campaign.  The open veldt of the Boer War wasn't the ideal environment for a sword but the Sudan was much more up close and personal.

Have you ever read Khartoum by Michael Asher? It's been ages since I have, but I do remember it being an excellent read and hard to put down.



PS. Do you like my bookmark? 

[Fuzzbucket]

Also Soilder Sahibs by Charles Allen. I know it's a different campaign, but a fantastic book and I remember there's quite a good bit about swords in battle during the Afghan wars... It also explains what a smelly was. 

[Gareth]

Have you ever read Khartoum by Michael Asher? It's been ages since I have, but I do remember it being an excellent read and hard to put down.

(Image removed from quote.)

PS. Do you like my bookmark? 

Also Soilder Sahibs by Charles Allen. I know it's a different campaign, but a fantastic book and I remember there's quite a good bit about swords in battle during the Afghan wars... It also explains what a smelly was. 

Neither of those I have to admit but I'll put them on the embarrassingly long "too read" list. 

[Gareth]

On the subject of reading; a very good friend just gave me a copy of Swordsmen of the British Empire.  Nice when your friends know you well. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Oooh smurf, that's right up my street!

[Fuzzbucket]

Neither of those I have to admit but I'll put them on the embarrassingly long "too read" list. 

After thinking about it, and in light of this very embarrassing revelation (on your part) that you've never read Soilder Sahibs, I think I may have a second copy up north somewhere, I think it's a hardback too. I can send it your way if you like? It won't quite make it for Christmas, but soon after... I can still put a bow on it.

[Gareth]

After thinking about it, and in light of this very embarrassing revelation (on your part) that you've never read Soilder Sahibs, I think I may have a second copy up north somewhere, I think it's a hardback too. I can send it your way if you like? It won't quite make it for Christmas, but soon after... I can still put a bow on it.

That's extremely generous of you Fuzzy.  I will happily take you up on the offer. 

[Gareth]

Have you read "shooting leave" by John Ure?  Very happy to do a book exchange if you haven't. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Have you read "shooting leave" by John Ure?  Very happy to do a book exchange if you haven't. 

No I haven't actually and it looks very interesting.  Right... have you read Round the World on a Wheel by John Foster Fraser? Three victorian gentlemen go round the world on bicycles and use fists and bad language to get out of any bother, including a dust-up with some Cossacks and an unfortunate diplomatic insident with a Chinese dog. It's a smurfing great read! 

[McStitchy]

Gareth, thank you very much for sharing your Sword collection here. Very interesting read and see 

No I haven't actually and it looks very interesting.  Right... have you read Round the World on a Wheel by John Foster Fraser? Three victorian gentlemen go round the world on bicycles and use fists and bad language to get out of any bother, including a dust-up with some Cossacks and an unfortunate diplomatic insident with a Chinese dog. It's a smurfing great read! 

Now that sounds like the right book for McStitchy 

Edit: Found a 1989 edition of it...

[Fuzzbucket]

Gareth, thank you very much for sharing your Sword collection here. Very interesting read and see 

Now that sounds like the right book for McStitchy 

Edit: Found a 1989 edition of it...

Oh well done!  It's maybe a bit slow to get started, but once they get going, bloody hell. I absolutely pished myself laughing at the incident involving the Chinese dog... others might not find it quite so funny. 

[McStitchy]

Looking forward to it 

[pfrsantos]

No I haven't actually and it looks very interesting.  Right... have you read Round the World on a Wheel by John Foster Fraser? Three victorian gentlemen go round the world on bicycles and use fists and bad language to get out of any bother, including a dust-up with some Cossacks and an unfortunate diplomatic insident with a Chinese dog. It's a smurfing great read! 

Geez... get a library, awlready!

 

[Gareth]

So, here's my latest.  I will be the first to admit I don't know a lot about Indian swords but I will tell you what I can (having checked the information with collectors who know what they are talking about).  What we have here is generically know as a Tulwar but might be more accurately called a Firangi Siroha.  Firangi for the fact this almost certainly has a imported European blade very likely made in the 18th Centaury.  Siroha is a term that is new to me but I'm told it's what best applies to the shape of the blade from an Indian point of view.  A nice overview can be read here; https://www.fordemilitaryantiques.com/articles/2019/7/12/a-guide-to-indian-sword-blade-types

This is a solid 910g (2lb) and has a 775mm (30 1/2") blade. 

These swords, and the people how wielded them, had a fearsome reputation amongst the British Army in the 19th Century.  Stories of hands, arms, legs and heads being removed at a single stroke seem to be common.  The reasons behind this are various, and there are whole books about it, but it amounts to sharpening, hilt design and technique.  While this is indeed a fearsome cutting sword the design of the hilt makes for a very awkward thrusting blade.

[SteveC]

Cool sword !     

[Aloha]

Nice addition to your collection. 

[Gareth]

Cheers gents. 

Unfortunately the blade on the tulwar had some active rust hiding under the patina and it can't be left unchecked.  I'm not a massive fan of removing patina just for the sake if it but it's better than letting the blade corrode.  I'm not aiming for a completely bright blade, just looking to arrest the pitting.

[comis]

Cheers gents. 

Unfortunately the blade on the tulwar had some active rust hiding under the patina and it can't be left unchecked.  I'm not a massive fan of removing patina just for the sake if it but it's better than letting the blade corrode.  I'm not aiming for a completely bright blade, just looking to arrest the pitting.

(Image removed from quote.)

Gareth, very cool find!   

I am always curious about Tulwar where the counter balance/pommel at the end being so wide and the handle is relatively short, does it ever hit your forearm/wrist if you move it the 'wrong' way?  Though it may look different, I have always think it is quite multi functional and well thought out.

Also, how do you discover the rust under the patina?  Does it 'rust thru'?  I'm asking in case some of my older knives need maintenance without me knowing.  Thank you in advance!

[Gareth]

Gareth, very cool find!   

I am always curious about Tulwar where the counter balance/pommel at the end being so wide and the handle is relatively short, does it ever hit your forearm/wrist if you move it the 'wrong' way?  Though it may look different, I have always think it is quite multi functional and well thought out.

Also, how do you discover the rust under the patina?  Does it 'rust thru'?  I'm asking in case some of my older knives need maintenance without me knowing.  Thank you in advance!

OK, this is a BIG question.    The really short answer is; the hilt is so closely fitted to the hand there is only one way you can possibly hold it and you really can't do it wrong.  The bigger question is; why?

I'll do my best to answer.  It's all about cutting.  So as you can hopefully see the close hilt has locked my wrist in the attack and formed an angle between my forearm and the blade.  There is no physical way I can make it straighter (though obviously I can pull is back to make more of a right angle between blade and forearm for defending myself)


Compare this to the second photo of me holding a contemporary British Sabre.  At full extension I can form a near straight line from elbow to sword tip. 


With me so far?  Good.  Here's the bit where you might need to use your imagination or a prop (such as a stick) and try it for yourself.  So when hitting your target you are looking to strike around 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the blade with almost any type of sword.  However the angled wrist then means the blade is drawn through the target as you swing, making a REALLY deep cut.  With a straight wrist it's very easy to land a blow "dead" with no draw.  More like chopping with an axe.  In Europe we were taught that the draw cut was more effective but it's actually quite hard to do in the middle of a swing, even when you aren't under pressure.  The tulwar hilt takes all the thinking out of it 'cos it's almost impossible to do anything else.

So why aren't more swords made this way?  As with anything, it's a design compromise.  For one; you are giving up a little bit of reach so you need to get in a few inches closer to your opponent (who likely isn't happy about the fact you are trying to hit him with a sword and might be inclined to try and do something about it).  Secondly, and even more of and issue, is that it's VERY hard to thrust with the point.  Nearly impossible in fact.  Not without very nearly getting close enough to give the other guy a hug.

Hope that helps. 

[Gareth]

Gareth, very cool find!   

I am always curious about Tulwar where the counter balance/pommel at the end being so wide and the handle is relatively short, does it ever hit your forearm/wrist if you move it the 'wrong' way?  Though it may look different, I have always think it is quite multi functional and well thought out.

Also, how do you discover the rust under the patina?  Does it 'rust thru'?  I'm asking in case some of my older knives need maintenance without me knowing.  Thank you in advance!

That's easier to answer.    Look out for any rough texture, that'll be rust forming and it's not going to go away on it's own.    Even once you get rid of it you'll almost certainly have some pitting left behind but at least it's not going to get any worse.

[comis]

OK, this is a BIG question.    The really short answer is; the hilt is so closely fitted to the hand there is only one way you can possibly hold it and you really can't do it wrong.  The bigger question is; why?

I'll do my best to answer.  It's all about cutting.  So as you can hopefully see the close hilt has locked my wrist in the attack and formed an angle between my forearm and the blade.  There is no physical way I can make it straighter (though obviously I can pull is back to make more of a right angle between blade and forearm for defending myself)
(Image removed from quote.)

Compare this to the second photo of me holding a contemporary British Sabre.  At full extension I can form a near straight line from elbow to sword tip. 
(Image removed from quote.)

With me so far?  Good.  Here's the bit where you might need to use your imagination or a prop (such as a stick) and try it for yourself.  So when hitting your target you are looking to strike around 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the blade with almost any type of sword.  However the angled wrist then means the blade is drawn through the target as you swing, making a REALLY deep cut.  With a straight wrist it's very easy to land a blow "dead" with no draw.  More like chopping with an axe.  In Europe we were taught that the draw cut was more effective but it's actually quite hard to do in the middle of a swing, even when you aren't under pressure.  The tulwar hilt takes all the thinking out of it 'cos it's almost impossible to do anything else.

So why aren't more swords made this way?  As with anything, it's a design compromise.  For one; you are giving up a little bit of reach so you need to get in a few inches closer to your opponent (who likely isn't happy about the fact you are trying to hit him with a sword and might be inclined to try and do something about it).  Secondly, and even more of and issue, is that it's VERY hard to thrust with the point.  Nearly impossible in fact.  Not without very nearly getting close enough to give the other guy a hug.

Hope that helps. 

Gareth, thanks for a length reply, most appreciated!

Now that it is in hand, the concept is much clearer.  What I find fascinating is your particular sample has a common body swept, while the body is angled as such that the tip is still inline with the handle. 

Even though the disk may limit the wrist motion, I could still see how that inline tip could somewhat help the user to aim a thrust better, from an angle(since wrist motion may be limited), while the swept of the body preserve the characteristic of a classic draw cut weapon. 

In some way, tulwars may sort of reaffirm why most katana are curved, instead of straight.  I often see people say how Katana is often curved because of its differential tempering(softer at spine to prevent breaking on impact), though I would also think it too has something to do with how classical Japanese techniques favor draw cut.  Anyhow, I could be totally off, but I am more than sure it is formidable in capable hands(as all weapons), definitely hate to see it swinging live in person.



And thanks again for the rust under patina answer too! 

[Gareth]

Yeah, a curved blade will definitely aid in drawing the cut, though it's still possible to do it with a straight sword.  Personally I've no doubt that the Japanese could have made their swords straight if they'd wanted too. 

Another thought about curved blades is that of edge alignment.  That is; when swinging you don't want to have the blade twisted over to the left or right.  There is a strong argument that the wider the blade the easier it is to have good edge alignment.  A curved blade maximises this.  So while this sabre blade is only 1 1/4" wide the space it occupies is 2 1/2".  I'm not certain about the physics of this, but I do know that it feels plausible when swinging a sword.

[comis]

Another great point, and I could totally see that.

With that tight of a tilt, the thumb is very likely resting right on the guard which probably would further help alignment.  I think there is some merit in wider body design for draw cut weapon too, where there will be more weight and integrity of the body to withstand the impact and potentially less vibration.  Furthermore, the curve will help guide the continuation of the cut, especially when it is embedded in something...yikes.

I am thinking tulwars probably would make a pretty ideal weapon for infantry.  Built pretty robust, technique is reinforced by physical design, versatile both of horseback and on foot.  In Chinese martial art, there is a saying that "hundred days for stick(or Jo in Japanese martial art), thousand days with a board sword("Dao"), and ten thousand days with a Chinese sword("Jian")".  I always think there is some truth to that, and in this case, the Tulwar resembles a Dao more than a Jian to me.

[Chako]

I also have a Tulwar and find the handle too small for my bear paws.

[Gareth]

I also have a Tulwar and find the handle too small for my bear paws.

I'm not surprised.  I've got small-ish mitts and I can only just about hold it comfortably.  There is, obviously, a range of sizes they come in, but very few seem to what anyone would call "large".

[pfrsantos]

I'm not surprised.  I've got small-ish mitts and I can only just about hold it comfortably.  There is, obviously, a range of sizes they come in, but very few seem to what anyone would call "large".

 

[Gareth]

(Image removed from quote.)

 

[Gareth]

I got a new one.    When I say "new" I obviously mean around 240 years old.  This is a sword that conforms to the British 1786 regulation; that is 1" wide at the shoulder, 32" long straight blade that is capable of cutting and thrusting and a hilt coloured to match uniform buttons (gilt or bright steel).


With so vague a regulation on the hilt you see a lot of variation in design, but the "five ball" motif seems to have been very popular and has become a catch-all term for these swords.  So this one weighs in at around 1lb 3oz (530g) and blade is 32 1/2" (825mm) long.  Most of these swords were single edged but, as discussed previously and seen here, some officers preferred a double edged blade.


  These 1786 sword tend to weigh less then the later 1796 by dint of having lighter hilts.  If I have a criticism of this particular sword I'd say it's a touch too flexible in the thrust.  The square section grip is, IMO, far more comfortable than the oval ones commonly seen on the 1796 swords.  The grip is made of ivory with a "reeded" pattern cut into it.  Depending on taste and/or regiment ebony was also used.


Further reading on the British sword patterns can be found here: https://www.fordemilitaryantiques.com/articles/2019/3/19/identifying-british-infantry-officers-swords
Mathew Forde (the author) is very lucky to own an identical sword to mine but in near pristine condition, seen at the very top of his article.